Rabbi Military Chief: It's OK To Rape Non-Jews!

[TheOldSchool]

While religion has been getting away with so much for countless millenia

And still atheism comes out second under islam for the most mass murders and atrocities in living memory. It seems that without religion people allow themselves to act like savages.

Clearly not true since we've got thousands and thousands of years of recorded history of religious people acting like savages.

And still in living memory atheism in its many forms is only beaten by islam when it comes to mass murders and atrocities. Look at the Ukraine, the Gulags, Cambodias killing fields, hitlers final solution, the Ho chi min trail and the other communist acts of barbarity that amounted to over 50 million dead. The muslims only just came out on top by a small margin. Chrisrtianity in the same time period would be hard pushed to muster more than 50,000 killed in the name of Christianity

Hitler was a Christian. Stalin was raised to be a Priest.

He turned to communism before finally settling on being a muslim. He might have been raised that way, it does not mean he filled the position.


The full name of the nazi party was the National Socialst workers party of Germany and was linkede to the communist party of Russia

You're so crazy.

 

[Phoenall]

JakeStarkey, et al,

Why don't you wait until all the evidence is in.

The rabbis should be relieved then cashiered. Any clergy in any military service that calls for atrocities has lost his path to God.

(COMMENT)

No one in the IDF Leadership, the Ministry of Religious Services, or the senior Rabbi would, in there wildest imagination, would they even remotely entertain the though that "It's OK to Rape Non-Jewish Women" is valid.

Let's just see if this is some sort of attempt to sling mud.

Most Respectfully,
R

It is muslims doing what they say non muslims do all the time, taking a persons words out of context.

Like saying that Israel will be wiped of the map, that was changed to Israel will be wiped from the pages of history.

 

[Phoenall]

"Karim’s comments were first published in 2002 on a religious website when he was asked by one of the users, “Is it allowed in our time for an IDF soldier, for example, to rape girls during a fight, or is such a thing forbidden?” /// The rabbi answered by saying that during war there are “cases in which the personality of the individual is ‘erased’ for the benefit of the whole,” according to a translation from Hebrew to English by the local website +972 Magazine. He added that the Torah states that “war removes some of the prohibitions on sexual relations” and thus allows things such as raping non-Jewish women prisoners."

Christian and Muslim militia raped women of the other side during the 1990s in the Balkans to erase the identify of the children.

Karim should be fired.

Palestinians certainly raped and killed enough women in Lebanon

You certainly mean the zionazi army who killed thousands in Lebanon.

Israeli rabbi: It’s okay to kill innocent civilians and destroy Gaza | +972 Magazine

And again all you have is an islamonazi source with no supporting evidence.

 

[Phoenall]

JakeStarkey, et al,

Why don't you wait until all the evidence is in.

The rabbis should be relieved then cashiered. Any clergy in any military service that calls for atrocities has lost his path to God.

(COMMENT)

No one in the IDF Leadership, the Ministry of Religious Services, or the senior Rabbi would, in there wildest imagination, would they even remotely entertain the though that "It's OK to Rape Non-Jewish Women" is valid.

Let's just see if this is some sort of attempt to sling mud.

Most Respectfully,
R

Those who kill civilians can authorize other atrocities.

Like hamas, fatah, hezbollocks and the ayatoilets you mean ?

 

[Phoenall]

I'm disgusted at this anti Semitic thread.
Don't you know you aren't allowed to post anything that shows Jews in a bad light, even when it's true.
Just because a senior Israeli says it's okay to rape non Jews doesn't mean anyone should ever mention it.

It would be if it was true, but seeing as he was giving a lesson in rabbinical law and was not speaking his own views then you are trying to create a blood libel out of it. Come back when you understand the concept of a sermon using another persons views to preaching your own POV.

 

[Phoenall]

I'm disgusted at this anti Semitic thread.
Don't you know you aren't allowed to post anything that shows Jews in a bad light, even when it's true.
Just because a senior Israeli says it's okay to rape non Jews doesn't mean anyone should ever mention it.

It's mentioned by Reuters.
Israeli military chief rabbi-designate under fire over remarks on rape

And even that says that you are taking his words out of context and manipulating them to mean something they dont. He quoted rabbinical law to show how things had changed over the centuries. Unlike khomieni who wrote that it was permissable to have sex with a baby as long asyou do not injure them through penetration. He also went on to say that sex with an animal was allowed as long as you killed the animal afterwards and sold it to the next village






Here is a muslim cleric talking about an imam raping a 4 year old girl

 

[Phoenall]

And still atheism comes out second under islam for the most mass murders and atrocities in living memory. It seems that without religion people allow themselves to act like savages.

Clearly not true since we've got thousands and thousands of years of recorded history of religious people acting like savages.

And still in living memory atheism in its many forms is only beaten by islam when it comes to mass murders and atrocities. Look at the Ukraine, the Gulags, Cambodias killing fields, hitlers final solution, the Ho chi min trail and the other communist acts of barbarity that amounted to over 50 million dead. The muslims only just came out on top by a small margin. Chrisrtianity in the same time period would be hard pushed to muster more than 50,000 killed in the name of Christianity

Hitler was a Christian. Stalin was raised to be a Priest.

He turned to communism before finally settling on being a muslim. He might have been raised that way, it does not mean he filled the position.


The full name of the nazi party was the National Socialst workers party of Germany and was linkede to the communist party of Russia

You're so crazy.

Look it up and see for yourself, that is why the left are so against the nazi's as if it was known they would be pariah's

 

[Phoenall]

It is permitted to break the bounds of modesty [a series of halachic injunctions governing prohibited sexual relations] and training. So it’s permissible to eat treif and to satisfy evil [sexual] urges through having sexual relations with attractive non-Jewish women against their will, out of consideration for the hardships of war and for the good of the whole [army’s objectives].
Lieberman Appoints IDF Chief Rabbi Who Endorses Rape to Improve Troop Morale

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread602959/pg1

A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However, he should not penetrate vaginally, but sodomising the child is acceptable. If a man does penetrate and damage the child then, he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl will not count as one of his four permanent wives and the man will not be eligible to marry the girl’s sister… It is better for a girl to marry at such a time when she would begin menstruation at her husband’s house, rather than her father’s home. Any father marrying his daughter so young will have a permanent place in heaven. ["Tahrirolvasyleh", fourth edition, Qom, Iran, 1990]



A man can have sex with animals such as sheep, cows, camels and so on. However, he should kill the animal after he has his orgasm. He should not sell the meat to the people in his own village, but selling the meat to a neighbouring village is reasonable.

If one commits the act of sodomy with a cow, a ewe, or a camel, their urine and their excrement become impure and even their milk may no longer be consumed. The animal must then be killed as quickly as possible and burned.


Is this not worse than what the Rabbi said as an example of rabbinical law ?

 

[Shusha]

Freeman, et al,

You can be just such a Philistine...

I'm disgusted at this anti Semitic thread.
Don't you know you aren't allowed to post anything that shows Jews in a bad light, even when it's true.
Just because a senior Israeli says it's okay to rape non Jews doesn't mean anyone should ever mention it.

It's mentioned by Reuters.
Israeli military chief rabbi-designate under fire over remarks on rape

(COMMENT)

THE CLAIM:

∆ That Rabbi Col Eyal Karim (Chief Rabbi designate) implied that soldiers would be permitted to rape women in war.
​

THE ACTUAL WORDS:

∆ “Just as in war, the fence of risk-taking is breached on behalf of others, so are the fences of modesty and kashrut breached… Although fraternizing with a non-Jewess is a very bad thing, it is allowable in war out of consideration for the difficulties of the fighters,”
----------------------------------------
∆ “Because the success of the collective is what mostly concerns us in war, the Torah allows the individual to satisfy his lust in the permitted conditions for the sake of the general success,” he concluded.
-------------------------- SOURCE: Israeli Military's New Chief Rabbi Implied Soldiers Can Rape in War, as Government Lurches to Far-Right
​

Most Respectfully,
R

Thank you! I have been looking for an English translation of his actual words. (My Hebrew is no where near good enough to read the abundant Hebrew language versions online).

I notice this translation uses the word "fraternizing", which has the connotation of consensual sexual activity, rather than rape, at least to me. I'm not sure what the original Hebrew word was, or if it has the same connotation. If we have any Hebrew speakers here, and seems likely we do, will one of you let me know? You can pm me if you don't want to get into a long religious discussion on the I/P board.

So, let's look at what actually happened back in 2002, was it?

Said Rabbi was posed a question on a forum concerning the interpretations of Eshet Yefat Toar, which is (troublesome for the modern reader) Torah law concerning what is permissible and not permissible with respect to female captives of war and the behaviour of soldiers during war times.

The response, the interpretation, must be read and understood within the broader concepts of Torah law -- including the concepts of the preservation of life and the absolute prohibition on rape. Let's be real clear here -- Torah law forbids rape. Israeli law also forbids rape.

There is no way this comment can be interpreted as either encouragement or permission to rape. The main idea presented in the response and interpretation of the law is that soldiers in war experience abnormal conditions in which the normal fences of Torah law, which serve to protect the individual members of the Jewish community, are broken down. It may not be possible to adhere strictly to kashrut or to modesty, or to observe other mitzvot. And that, therefore, the requirement to fulfill one's obligations to the performance of these mitzvot are mitigated by the service a soldier performs to the community. This in no way makes it permissible to commit atrocities.

 

[Shusha]

And, the measure of a religious faith is not that they contain troublesome and archaic passages. We all have them in our holy texts. The measure of a religious faith the way those passages are understood and put into practice (or not put into practice as the case may be.)

 

[aris2chat]

Freeman, et al,

You can be just such a Philistine...

I'm disgusted at this anti Semitic thread.
Don't you know you aren't allowed to post anything that shows Jews in a bad light, even when it's true.
Just because a senior Israeli says it's okay to rape non Jews doesn't mean anyone should ever mention it.

It's mentioned by Reuters.
Israeli military chief rabbi-designate under fire over remarks on rape

(COMMENT)

THE CLAIM:

∆ That Rabbi Col Eyal Karim (Chief Rabbi designate) implied that soldiers would be permitted to rape women in war.
​

THE ACTUAL WORDS:

∆ “Just as in war, the fence of risk-taking is breached on behalf of others, so are the fences of modesty and kashrut breached… Although fraternizing with a non-Jewess is a very bad thing, it is allowable in war out of consideration for the difficulties of the fighters,”
----------------------------------------
∆ “Because the success of the collective is what mostly concerns us in war, the Torah allows the individual to satisfy his lust in the permitted conditions for the sake of the general success,” he concluded.
-------------------------- SOURCE: Israeli Military's New Chief Rabbi Implied Soldiers Can Rape in War, as Government Lurches to Far-Right
​

Most Respectfully,
R

Thank you! I have been looking for an English translation of his actual words. (My Hebrew is no where near good enough to read the abundant Hebrew language versions online).

I notice this translation uses the word "fraternizing", which has the connotation of consensual sexual activity, rather than rape, at least to me. I'm not sure what the original Hebrew word was, or if it has the same connotation. If we have any Hebrew speakers here, and seems likely we do, will one of you let me know? You can pm me if you don't want to get into a long religious discussion on the I/P board.

So, let's look at what actually happened back in 2002, was it?

Said Rabbi was posed a question on a forum concerning the interpretations of Eshet Yefat Toar, which is (troublesome for the modern reader) Torah law concerning what is permissible and not permissible with respect to female captives of war and the behaviour of soldiers during war times.

The response, the interpretation, must be read and understood within the broader concepts of Torah law -- including the concepts of the preservation of life and the absolute prohibition on rape. Let's be real clear here -- Torah law forbids rape. Israeli law also forbids rape.

There is no way this comment can be interpreted as either encouragement or permission to rape. The main idea presented in the response and interpretation of the law is that soldiers in war experience abnormal conditions in which the normal fences of Torah law, which serve to protect the individual members of the Jewish community, are broken down. It may not be possible to adhere strictly to kashrut or to modesty, or to observe other mitzvot. And that, therefore, the requirement to fulfill one's obligations to the performance of these mitzvot are mitigated by the service a soldier performs to the community. This in no way makes it permissible to commit atrocities.

Unfortunately there is an adrenaline induced mania of sorts after combat. Some soldiers take that out on the wrong people. Prostitutes used to follow soldiers. No longer.

I've know too many women that have been raped after a battle, and too many that would loose their lives, killed by their own community. Or they come home and too brutal in sex or abusive to their wife.

Israeli soldiers are given cannabis right after combat or attacks. Safer than Valium. They are calmed down and because of that have less PTS

Even the Vets in the US are being given in some cases for PTSS or PTSD. It is best given in the field not years later after problems are exhibited.

In some cases in the world soldiers take females are rewards or slaves and can vent, abuse and rape without the belief that if they re not of their religion or sect, it is not a crime.

It is twisted but some groups in the news do just that.

Even in the bible there is a time of regrouping and mentally getting their head on before they return to their family, a sort of purification as well. You don't carry the battle field to your home.

 

[montelatici]

Is there nothing that Jews do that you will not justify? You are a disgusting self-hating Christian. Grow up.

 

[rylah]

Is there nothing that Jews do that you will not justify? You are a disgusting self-hating Christian. Grow up.

Jews can say whatever they want- wrong, true or ignorant, deal with it.
Meanwhile people know which culture DOES PRACTICE RAPE and demand mouthes shut about their common identity.

I CAN say that the thought of rape isn't foreign to our enemies women- they deal with it daily from inside their families, so an outside enemy threatening the same is even less intimidating than the men in the community who go beyond threats
However if they were communicated clearly, receiving the idea that once they attacked no child, woman, elder or cattle would be left of them...would be more close to what the Rabbi represents.

And would save many Arab and Jewish lives for the long run...

 

[rylah]

After reading the response here a couple more times, I realized that the core issue was linguistic.
What we recognize today as 'rape' was not the issue the Rabbi was responding to, but the conditions in which a soldier can marry a captive woman, not enslave, use or sell- MARRY.
*Before going on- a Jewish man has 3 ways to marry a woman, only one of those is intercourse.
Meaning any woman a Jew has sex with becomes his wife

The law of the Beautiful Woman says:
"If you go out to war against your enemies, and the Lord, your God, will deliver him into your hands, and you take his captives,
and you see among the captives a beautiful woman and you desire her, you may take [her] for yourself as a wife.
You shall bring her into your home, and she shall shave her head and let her nails grow.
And she shall remove the garment of her captivity from upon herself, and stay in your house, and weep for her father and her mother for a full month. After that, you may be intimate with her and possess her, and she will be a wife for you.
And it will be, if you do not desire her, then you shall send her away wherever she wishes, but you shall not sell her for money. You shall not keep her as a servant, because you have afflicted her."

So he has to FREE her from captivity, welcome her home, cool off and think for a month and let her cry over her relatives. Only then if still wants her in spite of her appearance he's allowed to MARRY HER AFTER SHE ACCEPTS JUDAISM, If not she has 12 months to think and live under protection (keeping her traditions and religion) before she's sent wherever she asks.
In the commentary it also states he can't marry more than one woman

This isn't Cologne style in any way...however 'old' the law is.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Is there nothing that Jews do that you will not justify? You are a disgusting self-hating Christian. Grow up.

It is not fair for you, monte, to attack aris as a "Christian". Especially at a time when Muslims have conducted a genocide against Christians in the Middle East, something which even the Pope has acknowledged. You want to debate, fine, but stop calling posters "self-hating Christians." There are MILLIONS of Christians that support Israel over the Arabs/Muslims. As for the issue of rape, it is ISIS today that promotes rape and sex slaves, among their own women.

 

[Phoenall]

Is there nothing that Jews do that you will not justify? You are a disgusting self-hating Christian. Grow up.

Is there no LIE that you will tell to racially attack the Jews, here you have the facts laid bare and still you dont believe them.

SHAME ON YOU AND SHAME FOR BEING A VIOLENT INVADING COLONISER

 

[Boston1]

WHat kinda complete idiot belives this shit