Rage Against the War Machine Rally in DC is Generally Ignored By MSM But Draws Both Sides Together

[Donald H]

Okay, fair enough.

I freely admit that how the American people think, and in particular are thinking now, and in double-particular how the patriot base thinks ... is something I still have a long ways to go in learning.

And then ... what makes people change how they think/act?

History teaches us that events are the key. The Declaration of Independence addresses this ...we're disposed to suffer for a long time, etc ... and we see example after example of populations that seem passive, or even devoted to their leaders, or intimidated ... who then, almost overnight, erupt.

What made them do this? What was it that turned a timid student, a passive peasant, an industrial worker striving to get promotion to foreman ... into an angry street-fighter?

Of course the powers-that-be shy away from investigating these huge historic turns. But we shouldn't.

I lived in the Soviet Union for a few months in 1985 .. in Ukrainian Kharkov (now Kharkiv) in fact. And returned there for extended visits several times. I made a number of Russian and Ukrainian friends and acquaintances. They're good people, with a lot in common with Americans. None of us should be shooting at each other.

None of your ideas above strike me as original. Maybe I can best answer you by saying that it's my opinion that Americans are too anxious to wave their flag when their president means it to be their battle flag.

 

[Leo123]

We need to either ‘shit or get off the pot.’ Unfortunately POTUS is just pooping his pants.

 

[Doug1943]

None of your ideas above strike me as original. Maybe I can best answer you by saying that it's my opinion that Americans are too anxious to wave their flag when their president means it to be their battle flag.

No, they're not.

In fact, I have been surprised at how radically people who were, 20 years ago, foot-stomping flag-wavers -- USA!!! ALL THE WAY!!! -- have become ohne mich with respect to foreign wars.

This has gone along with a radical inversion of attitudes. It used to be the Left who talked about the 'Deep State' (although they didn't use that phrase), or were anti-corporation. Now things have switched around.

This is not new in history. In fact, it's just possible that we're seeing the preparation of a serious fascist movement in the US. Were we to have a big military defeat abroad -- say, over Taiwan -- and were this to coincide with a big depression, then a bitter nationalist reaction, centered around a charismatic, intelligent leader who espoused a pseudo-left social program, blaming the usual minority group for everything, might be a real possibility.

I don't think this will happen, but it could.

America is heading for a collapse of some sort. No one is ready for this. Our extension internationally, our favorable geographic situation, our unfavorable ethnic division, our store of great wealth, our (and others') possession of nuclear weapons -- all make it impossible to predict what will happen.

The Right is very unsophisticated. The ease with which our people were suckered into -- or suckered themselves -- the Jan 6th fiasco is proof of this, as is the wide prevalance among our people of nutty conspiracy theories.

But we are where we are.

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

It wasn't completely ignored because the MSM called them all pro-Putin.
This completely peaceful rally drew over 3000 people & had an eclectic group of speakers representing the left, right & libertarians.
The Green Party & Code Pink were there with the Freedom Caucus & Ron Paul.
They were calling for an immediate halt of aide to Ukraine along with a negotiated settlement before this escalates into WWIII.
They are backing (even the left) Matt Gaetz & his Ukraine Fatigue Act.

Even though they disagree on practically everything else, the sane Dems that haven't forgot their antiwar roots are aligned with those on the other side that realize the DC UNiparty is manipulating us into another massive conflict.
They can at least see the truth once it gets so big that nuclear war is being discussed as an option by both sides.

“It’s just so weird,” said Code Pink’s Media Benjamin (a darling of what many people consider the far left). “The people who I thought were the peacemakers were the progressives and the Democratic Party, but on this one they’ve become pro-war. So I don’t align ideologically with the people in Congress who are calling for an end to the weapons, but I want to get everybody in Congress to say that. And I think the polls are shifting that show now that it’s only 48% of Americans in the latest AP poll that want to sent more weapons to Ukraine. That means the majority of American people either don’t or don’t understand. And that means that Congress and the White House are totally out of sync with what the American people are thinking now.”

The left-leaning Benjamin continued:

“It’s absolutely bizarre, I never thought I’d see this happen. I always thought that the people that I have been aligned with for decades now—people like Barbra Lee from California who was against the US military response to the 9/11 attacks—you know, I thought people like her, like “The Squad”, they would be the ones… the progressive caucus which has 100 members of Congress. But when they came out with their letter with 30 people signing it, and then withdrew it within 24 hours, it’s been really hard to get any of them to speak out.”

I don’t agree with Matt Gaetz about anything related to domestic issues,” said Max Blumenthal of The Grey Zone. “But his (Gaetz) bill, the Ukraine Fatigue Act, is a breath of fresh air. And what we’re doing, those of us who come from the left, is that we’re hounding the squad. Because they’re supposed to do the same thing, but it turns out they’re controlled by the Uniparty.

1- Not One More Penny for War in Ukraine
The Democrats and Republicans have armed Ukraine with tens of billions of dollars in weapons and military aid. The war has killed tens of thousands, displaced millions, and is pushing us toward a nuclear WW3. Stop funding the war.

2- Negotiate Peace
The US instigated the war in Ukraine with a coup on its democratically-elected government in 2014, and then sabotaged a peace deal between Russia and Ukraine in March. Pursue an immediate ceasefire and diplomacy to end the war.

3- Stop the War Inflation
The war is accelerating inflation and increasing food, gas, and energy prices. The US blew up Russian gas pipelines to Europe, starving them of energy and deindustrializing their countries. End the war and stop increasing prices.

4- Disband NATO
NATO expansion to Russia’s border provoked the war in Ukraine. NATO is a warmongering relic of the Cold War. Disband it like the Warsaw Pact. The war is accelerating inflation and increasing food, gas, and energy prices. The US blew up Russian gas pipelines to Europe, starving them of energy and deindustrializing their countries. End the war and stop increasing prices.

5- Global Nuclear De-Escalation
The war in Ukraine has brought us to the edge of WW3 and nuclear war with Russia. US intelligence agencies estimate a one in four chance of nuclear war, which would plunge the world into nuclear winter and kill almost all life on Earth. Adopt a no-first-strike nuclear policy. Drawdown nuclear weapons worldwide.

6- Slash the Pentagon Budget
Half of the federal discretionary budget goes to Pentagon. The military budget is $857 billion per year, and the Pentagon just failed its fifth straight audit. The Pentagon can only account for 39 percent of its $3.5 trillion in assets. Cut the military budget in half and return those funds to the American people.

7- Abolish the CIA and Military-Industrial Deep State
The CIA and deep state are an unelected permanent government of intelligence agencies that run our country outside of constitutional and democratic control. They surveille Americans, manipulate the media, curtail free speech, blackmail politicians, infiltrate activist organizations, torture people, overthrow governments, and assassinated President John F. Kennedy. Abolish the CIA and deep state and restore a government of, by, and for the people.

8- Abolish War and Empire
War and empire subjugate billions of people around the world to enrich a small group of elites. In just the past two decades, the US has waged and backed wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Palestine, Yemen, Ukraine, and other countries. End all US wars and regime change. Stop all military aid to other countries. End drone strikes. Close all US military bases abroad. Bring all US troops home. Build a world that guarantees every person freedom from war and empire in place of the collapsing US hegemonic world order.

9- Restore Civil Liberties
Restore the constitutional liberties taken from us in the name of war and empire, including freedom of speech, the press, and assembly. End mass surveillance, repeal the Patriot Act, and restore the right to privacy and habeas corpus.


10- Free Julian Assange
The US is charging Julian Assange with espionage and criminalizing our right to publish information that challenges the military-industrial deep state. He is imprisoned in the UK and being extradited to the US. The CIA plotted to assassinate him for exposing US war crimes. Free Julian Assange and all political prisoners.

There is solid middle ground between the sides, at least when it comes to Ukraine.
I agree with all 10 of these points.
Unfortunately, the UNiparty couldn't care less about the will of the people when they have orders for distraction, war, chaos & conditioning the easily manipulated masses for a reset they hope to control after an engineered collapse.

Anti-War Protest in Washington D.C. Garners Support of Conservatives, Libertarians, Leftists! Protesters Demand "NO MORE FUNDING TO UKRAINE!" Exclusive VIDEO! | The Gateway Pundit | by Cara Castronuova

There was a large national rally last weekend to protest continued funding by the United States for the war in Ukraine.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

If only conservatives joined with us liberals when we were opposing the war with ACTUAL US SOLIDERS FIGHTING over in Iraq.....unfortunately, conservatives were all gung ho for that war.....even called those of us who opposed it, traitors and terrorists....



But no matter how many ways you try to slice it ......wanting Ukraine to be invaded by Russia isn't the same as opposing Iraq....yall keep being on the wrong side of history....

 

[BackAgain]

If only conservatives joined with us liberals when we were opposing the war with ACTUAL US SOLIDERS FIGHTING over in Iraq.....unfortunately, conservatives were all gung ho for that war.....even called those of us who opposed it, traitors and terrorists....



But no matter how many ways you try to slice it ......wanting Ukraine to be invaded by Russia isn't the same as opposing Iraq....yall keep being on the wrong side of history....

You’re unhinged.

After the Islamic terror attacks of 9/11/2001, it did seem to make sense to go take them out. Pacifism in those days was seen by many as a poor idea. Right or wrong, it was viewed suspiciously.

Jump to the evil scumbag, Putin, last year using the Russian military to invade a sovereign neighbor which had not done diddly shot to Russia. If we were Ukrainian allies (which we weren’t by treaty or otherwise), then we would certainly have a right to help Ukraine defend itself.

By contrast, since Ukraine is not an ally of ours, it seems that what we are doing by assisting Ukraine to defend itself is simply a reaction to the evil being perpetrated by Putin and some concern about what might happen next of Putin succeeds.

Nothing — in either scenario — was as black and white as your post implies.

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

You’re unhinged.

After the Islamic terror attacks of 9/11/2001, it did seem to make sense to go take them out. Pacifism in those days was seen by many as a poor idea. Right or wrong, it was viewed suspiciously.

Jump to the evil scumbag, Putin, last year using the Russian military to invade a sovereign neighbor which had not done diddly shot to Russia. If we were Ukrainian allies (which we weren’t by treaty or otherwise), then we would certainly have a right to help Ukraine defend itself.

By contrast, since Ukraine is not an ally of ours, it seems that what we are doing by assisting Ukraine to defend itself is simply a reaction to the evil being perpetrated by Putin and some concern about what might happen next of Putin succeeds.

Nothing — in either scenario — was as black and white as your post implies.

No, it didn't make sense to invade Iraq...it never made sense to invade it...and if you think it did, why do you morons try to claim you were against that war AFTER THE FACT?


....the fact you tried to conflate Iraq with Afghanistan is your admission that you are full of shit...


Please tell me why you folks love to justify invading sovereign nations under false pretenses?



You did it with Iraq and you are justifying Putin invading Ukraine under those same false pretenses....you are a clown....

 

[BackAgain]

No, it didn't make sense to invade Iraq...

Please feel obligated to quote me saying in my post that it made sense to invade Iraq.

If you can do that, I’ll deign to address the rest of your typically assclown spew.

 

[Doug1943]

If only conservatives joined with us liberals when we were opposing the war with ACTUAL US SOLIDERS FIGHTING over in Iraq.....unfortunately, conservatives were all gung ho for that war.....even called those of us who opposed it, traitors and terrorists....



But no matter how many ways you try to slice it ......wanting Ukraine to be invaded by Russia isn't the same as opposing Iraq....yall keep being on the wrong side of history....

You are absolutely right about the response of most conservatives to Iraq.

There were exceptions, such as the libertarians at AntiWar.com, Rand Paul, and the Buchananites of the publication American Conservative.

But most of us, even if we had our original doubts, supported the war, with or without labelling our political opponents "traitors". (Some of us remembered one of our authority figures, old Samuel Johnson, and his remark that "patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels".)

By the way, I was originally skeptical about invading Iraq, and in arguments I quoted Robespierre, of all people, to the effect that "People do not love missionaries with bayonets".

But once the war was on, of course I wanted our side to win -- and not just because, or even primarily because, I'm an American, but because the other side were not just Iraqi patriots/nationalists, but because they were, in Christopher Hitchens' words, Islamo-fascists.

AND ... almost everyone that I interacted with on the web, liberal or conservative, supported the invasion of Afghanistan. The argument was over Iraq, where our actions were unforced, voluntary. But in hindsight, trying to bring civilization to Afghanistan was even more of a fool's errand than trying to bring it to Iraq.

Americans have a hard time understanding pre-modern mentality, tribalism. They all look alike to us, they're all Muslims ... why can't they just settle down and have periodic elections and tolerate their differences and let their children, including their girls, go to school and get educated and come on into the modern world, with flush toilets and electricity and vacations abroad and modern medicine and a car in every garage? Like the Chinese and the Indians are doing?

Okay, my side learned a hard lesson there, sort of. We didn't learn it from the Left -- there was a strain of intelligent, not-anti-American opposition to the war on the Left -- as exemplified by Barak Obama (but not Hilary Clinton, who supported the invasion of Iraq). But it didn't stand out during the debates on the war.

So from our point of view, most of the Left's opposition to the wars then was a mix of simple-minded mush-head pacifism -- which would have condemned our participation in WWII, or even the North's war against the slave-owners in the Civl War -- or blame-America-first-ism. Part of the Left saw militant Islamism as a kind of mutated Third World Anti-imperialism ... Fidel Castro/Ho Chi Minh with a Koran. (Of course, the first thing victorious Islamists do to genuine Communists is to hang them. They're godless atheists, after all.)

From the point of view of the rational Right, the problem is this: a lot of our base is now reflexively anti-involvement-in-foreign-wars. But reflexive anti-war-ism, like its earlier reflexive patriotism, is not a good base from which to try to understand the world and react to it.

Even worse is the "it's costing us money which we could spend here". A favorite slogan of the Right, and a good one, is "Freedom is not free!" Sometimes we should forego a second car in order to buy atom bombs and tanks and pay the salaries of paratroopers. It's a question of using these expensive resources wisely.

So .... we must say sorry to all the liberal Iraq and Afghanistan combat veterans, and liberal veterans in general. We -- including Hilary Clinton and the great majority of the Democratic Party leadership -- were wrong to send you into danger-close twenty years ago. "You", of course, includes all veterans, most of whom were and are probably closer to us politically than to the Left, and many of whom were our relatives.

(As some Leftists pointed out at the time, the most prominent neo-Cons, the real theoretical architects of our interventions then -- and back in the saddle in Washington now -- tended to send their children to Harvard, not to Iraq or Afghanistan. But this was/is not true in general of your rank-and-file conservative voter.)

And anyone on the Right who simple-mindedly calls you, or for that matter any honest opponent of American foreign policy, at any time, a "traitor", is simply ignorant of what that word means, and is using it because he has no good arguments at his disposal.

(On the other hand ... why do some of your leaders honor people like the Soviet spy Ethel Rosenberg? What were they thinking? Do you not see how the "traitor" label isn't completely crazy when people on your side do things like that?)

Finally, I don't know of any conservative who "wants Ukraine to be invaded by Russia", although there may be -- probably are -- a few misguided souls who think something close to this. (These would be people who have fixated on the 'culture war', and have noted that the Ukrainian ruling elite-- at the moment -- is pretending to be the equivalent of Western LBGT+ liberals, although they are in fact very far from this. Whereas Mr Putin has committed the unpardonable crime of preventing pro-homosexual propaganda from being promulgated in his schools. [ See here for one take on why Western Lefties don't like Mr Putin: Russia as the "Great Satan" in the Liberal Imagination ]

But what Russia did last year in Ukraine, and is doing now, is not the whole story, by a long shot. There are thoughtful people, on both the Left and the Right, who understand that if you know the full story -- starting thirty years ago, when the Russian leadership voluntarily, peacefully, withdrew from Eastern Europe, bought with the blood of millions of Russians responding to Germany's invasion of their country (the second time in the century), and then dismantled Communism, again, voluntarily, peacefully -- if you know this story, it puts the war in Ukraine in a different light.