Russian fighter jet shot down in Syria's Idlib province

[alang1216]

Assad is certainly a ruthless autocrat but is he worse than other Middle East despots? I don't really know.

All the rulers of the Middle East are cruel atvocrats. Assad on their background just stands out for gentleness, intelligence and European upbringing If there was a more cruel ruler in his place, then there would not be a war in Syria. He would have simply suppressed the protests in the very bud, rather than trying to solve the problem for a long time through negotiations. I will not cite Saudi Arabia as an example. Vaughn, take for example Turkey with a recent coup attempt. Tens of thousands of people are in prison. Hundreds of people were killed. Erdogan himself conducts very aggressive rhetoric against the West. But very little is said about this. Because Erdogan is an ally of the West Yes, and in Russia they say little about this. Because Erdogan today is an advantageous ally for Russia. Damn politics.

I agree, damn politics. I'm not convinced Assad cares anything for the Syrian people, only holding on to power.

List of United Nations resolutions concerning Syria

 

[Bleipriester]

Assad is certainly a ruthless autocrat but is he worse than other Middle East despots? I don't really know.

All the rulers of the Middle East are cruel atvocrats. Assad on their background just stands out for gentleness, intelligence and European upbringing If there was a more cruel ruler in his place, then there would not be a war in Syria. He would have simply suppressed the protests in the very bud, rather than trying to solve the problem for a long time through negotiations. I will not cite Saudi Arabia as an example. Vaughn, take for example Turkey with a recent coup attempt. Tens of thousands of people are in prison. Hundreds of people were killed. Erdogan himself conducts very aggressive rhetoric against the West. But very little is said about this. Because Erdogan is an ally of the West Yes, and in Russia they say little about this. Because Erdogan today is an advantageous ally for Russia. Damn politics.

I agree, damn politics. I'm not convinced Assad cares anything for the Syrian people, only holding on to power.

List of United Nations resolutions concerning Syria

It is certainly not a luxury to be Syrian President since 2011. It´s a hard job and he does well. Other governments and countries would have collapsed long ago under such pressure because they lack the public support that Assad enjoys.

 

[Balancer]

The last battle of the Russian pilot.

 

[Bleipriester]

"“The plane’s radar is unable to register an attack by handheld anti-aircraft missiles like Stinger or Igla because their missiles are armed with passive self-homing warheads. The Igla has a maximum range of 3 kilometers (1.8 miles), which means that the Su-25’s pilot was flying low, apparently thinking that since he was over a de-escalation zone, he would not be attacked,” Sivkov said.

“These people ignore the generally recognized rules of engagement and, therefore, they must not be taken prisoner either. Now we know that there are terrorists out there in Idlib who violate the ceasefire and deserve massive missile strikes by Russian and Syrian forces. They will have to pay with hundreds of their criminal lives for the death of our pilot,” Konstantin Sivkov emphasized."

Downed Su-25's Radar 'Unable' to Register MANPAD Attack – Military Expert - Muraselon
Syrian Forces Conduct Op in Idlib, Where Russian Su-25 Was Shot Down - Muraselon

 

[Balancer]

The last battle of the Russian pilot.

The first time I looked without sound. Now with sound. At the 3rd and 4th seconds the Russian pilot screams "Eto Vam za patsanov!" ("This is revenge for our guys").

 

[alang1216]

It is certainly not a luxury to be Syrian President since 2011. It´s a hard job and he does well. Other governments and countries would have collapsed long ago under such pressure because they lack the public support that Assad enjoys.

If he has so much public support, how is it that there is an armed revolt going on and the population is fleeing the country?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I congratulate all the haters of Russia. It seems that US shipments of MANPADS reached their destinations. Today, from the MANPADS, for the first time in the entire Syrian war, the Russian Su-25 was shot down. The pilot was killed after the bailout. The terrorists from Jays al-Nasr today have a holiday. However, like all the others supporting terrorists.

Russian fighter plane shot down by Syrian rebels who 'capture and kill pilot'

US Sends MANPADS to Syrian Kurds as Part of Secret Deal - Reports

Except for the fact that the Kurds had nothing to do with shooting down the Russian aircraft. Kurds are not "Syrian Rebels".

 

[alang1216]

The last battle of the Russian pilot.

The first time I looked without sound. Now with sound. At the 3rd and 4th seconds the Russian pilot screams "Eto Vam za patsanov!" ("This is revenge for our guys").

I'm guessing that if a foreign pilot was shot down after bombing my city I wouldn't treat him any better. It may not be right but it is understandable.

 

[Balancer]

If he has so much public support, how is it that there is an armed revolt going on and the population is fleeing the country?

The uprising was supported by the West and by foreign Islamists. And people from the combat areas are fleeing the country. As always. Syria is a small and poor country, to stand alone against massive foreign interference. What is more important here is not only military assistance, propaganda, economic sanctions, etc. play an important role.

 

[Balancer]

Except for the fact that the Kurd had nothing to do with shooting down the Russian aircraft. Kurds are not "Syrian Rebels".

I did not accuse the Kurds of killing a Russian airplane. I was at first surprised by the coincidence and suggested that the Islamists could get the MANPADS, which America promised the Kurds. But later I realized that if the Kurds had MANPADS, then their first goal would be Turkish aircraft.

 

[Balancer]

Eternal glory to the hero!

 

[Bleipriester]

It is certainly not a luxury to be Syrian President since 2011. It´s a hard job and he does well. Other governments and countries would have collapsed long ago under such pressure because they lack the public support that Assad enjoys.

If he has so much public support, how is it that there is an armed revolt going on and the population is fleeing the country?

Nato/Gulf backed al-Qaeda and ISIS terrorists from over 100 countries.

 

[alang1216]

It is certainly not a luxury to be Syrian President since 2011. It´s a hard job and he does well. Other governments and countries would have collapsed long ago under such pressure because they lack the public support that Assad enjoys.

If he has so much public support, how is it that there is an armed revolt going on and the population is fleeing the country?

Nato/Gulf backed al-Qaeda and ISIS terrorists from over 100 countries.

Quite an accusation. I can believe the Gulf states backed al-Qaeda but do you have anything that supports NATO helping either al-Qaeda or ISIS?

 

[Bleipriester]

It is certainly not a luxury to be Syrian President since 2011. It´s a hard job and he does well. Other governments and countries would have collapsed long ago under such pressure because they lack the public support that Assad enjoys.

If he has so much public support, how is it that there is an armed revolt going on and the population is fleeing the country?

Nato/Gulf backed al-Qaeda and ISIS terrorists from over 100 countries.

Quite an accusation. I can believe the Gulf states backed al-Qaeda but do you have anything that supports NATO helping either al-Qaeda or ISIS?

ISIS could not have become the army they were without foreign help. You can argue what about all the oil and I reply someone bought it. ISIS-Oil was transferred to Nato-member Turkey (Russia provided footage of the oil trucks traveling from Syria and Iraq to Turkey) , where it was "washed". It was then sold knowingly sold to Nato-members in the EU:

"The Ambassador for the European Union (EU) in Iraq, Jana Hybaskova, admitted last week that several EU member states have bought oil from the Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS) terrorist organization that has been brutally conquering large portions of Iraq and Syria."
Supporting Terror: EU States Buying Islamic State Oil

The "Coalition" provided direct supply drops to ISIS:

"(IraqiNews.com) On Saturday, MP Majid al-Ghraoui said that, an American aircraft dropped a load of weapons and equipment into the hands of the ISIS group militants in southeast of Tikrit, located in Salahuddin province.

MP Majid al-Ghraoui, the member of the Security and Defense Committee in the Parliament, said: “The information that has reached us in the security and defense committee indicates that an American aircraft dropped a load of weapons and equipment to the ISIS group militants at the area of al-Dour in the province of Salahuddin.”

He added, “The committee will set a meeting within the next few days to follow up on that incident,” pointing out that, “This incident is continuously happening and has also occurred in some other regions.”"
American aircraft dropped weapons to ISIS, says MP

Its airforces rather protected ISIS than battled them:
Until recently, pilots didn't use a weapon against ISIS in 75% of sorties, Jeb Bush says

Alleged "rebels" were trained by the US and joined ISIS:
Blowback! U.S. trained Islamists who joined ISIS

The "rebels" are also like ISIS and they were allies for a time before they ran into tensions about who controls what. You can see the war parties acting as one unit against the government:
Battle of Raqqa (March 2013) - Wikipedia

 

[alang1216]

It is certainly not a luxury to be Syrian President since 2011. It´s a hard job and he does well. Other governments and countries would have collapsed long ago under such pressure because they lack the public support that Assad enjoys.

If he has so much public support, how is it that there is an armed revolt going on and the population is fleeing the country?

Nato/Gulf backed al-Qaeda and ISIS terrorists from over 100 countries.

Quite an accusation. I can believe the Gulf states backed al-Qaeda but do you have anything that supports NATO helping either al-Qaeda or ISIS?

ISIS could not have become the army they were without foreign help. You can argue what about all the oil and I reply someone bought it. ISIS-Oil was transferred to Nato-member Turkey (Russia provided footage of the oil trucks traveling from Syria and Iraq to Turkey) , where it was "washed". It was then sold knowingly sold to Nato-members in the EU:

"The Ambassador for the European Union (EU) in Iraq, Jana Hybaskova, admitted last week that several EU member states have bought oil from the Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS) terrorist organization that has been brutally conquering large portions of Iraq and Syria."
Supporting Terror: EU States Buying Islamic State Oil

The "Coalition" provided direct supply drops to ISIS:

"(IraqiNews.com) On Saturday, MP Majid al-Ghraoui said that, an American aircraft dropped a load of weapons and equipment into the hands of the ISIS group militants in southeast of Tikrit, located in Salahuddin province.

MP Majid al-Ghraoui, the member of the Security and Defense Committee in the Parliament, said: “The information that has reached us in the security and defense committee indicates that an American aircraft dropped a load of weapons and equipment to the ISIS group militants at the area of al-Dour in the province of Salahuddin.”

He added, “The committee will set a meeting within the next few days to follow up on that incident,” pointing out that, “This incident is continuously happening and has also occurred in some other regions.”"
American aircraft dropped weapons to ISIS, says MP

Its airforces rather protected ISIS than battled them:
Until recently, pilots didn't use a weapon against ISIS in 75% of sorties, Jeb Bush says

Alleged "rebels" were trained by the US and joined ISIS:
Blowback! U.S. trained Islamists who joined ISIS

The "rebels" are also like ISIS and they were allies for a time before they ran into tensions about who controls what. You can see the war parties acting as one unit against the government:
Battle of Raqqa (March 2013) - Wikipedia

In not one of these cases was it NATO or US policy to assist Al Qaeda or ISIS. If ISIS was assisted it was due to corruption (official or unofficial), accident, concern for civilians, or people or groups that changed sides. None reflect policy.

 

[Bleipriester]

It is certainly not a luxury to be Syrian President since 2011. It´s a hard job and he does well. Other governments and countries would have collapsed long ago under such pressure because they lack the public support that Assad enjoys.

If he has so much public support, how is it that there is an armed revolt going on and the population is fleeing the country?

Nato/Gulf backed al-Qaeda and ISIS terrorists from over 100 countries.

Quite an accusation. I can believe the Gulf states backed al-Qaeda but do you have anything that supports NATO helping either al-Qaeda or ISIS?

ISIS could not have become the army they were without foreign help. You can argue what about all the oil and I reply someone bought it. ISIS-Oil was transferred to Nato-member Turkey (Russia provided footage of the oil trucks traveling from Syria and Iraq to Turkey) , where it was "washed". It was then sold knowingly sold to Nato-members in the EU:

"The Ambassador for the European Union (EU) in Iraq, Jana Hybaskova, admitted last week that several EU member states have bought oil from the Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS) terrorist organization that has been brutally conquering large portions of Iraq and Syria."
Supporting Terror: EU States Buying Islamic State Oil

The "Coalition" provided direct supply drops to ISIS:

"(IraqiNews.com) On Saturday, MP Majid al-Ghraoui said that, an American aircraft dropped a load of weapons and equipment into the hands of the ISIS group militants in southeast of Tikrit, located in Salahuddin province.

MP Majid al-Ghraoui, the member of the Security and Defense Committee in the Parliament, said: “The information that has reached us in the security and defense committee indicates that an American aircraft dropped a load of weapons and equipment to the ISIS group militants at the area of al-Dour in the province of Salahuddin.”

He added, “The committee will set a meeting within the next few days to follow up on that incident,” pointing out that, “This incident is continuously happening and has also occurred in some other regions.”"
American aircraft dropped weapons to ISIS, says MP

Its airforces rather protected ISIS than battled them:
Until recently, pilots didn't use a weapon against ISIS in 75% of sorties, Jeb Bush says

Alleged "rebels" were trained by the US and joined ISIS:
Blowback! U.S. trained Islamists who joined ISIS

The "rebels" are also like ISIS and they were allies for a time before they ran into tensions about who controls what. You can see the war parties acting as one unit against the government:
Battle of Raqqa (March 2013) - Wikipedia

In not one of these cases was it NATO or US policy to assist Al Qaeda or ISIS. If ISIS was assisted it was due to corruption (official or unofficial), accident, concern for civilians, or people or groups that changed sides. None reflect policy.

Official policy:

"In the past few months, as the situation in Iraq has deteriorated, the Bush Administration, in both its public diplomacy and its covert operations, has significantly shifted its Middle East strategy. The “redirection,” as some inside the White House have called the new strategy, has brought the United States closer to an open confrontation with Iran and, in parts of the region, propelled it into a widening sectarian conflict between Shiite and Sunni Muslims.

To undermine Iran, which is predominantly Shiite, the Bush Administration has decided, in effect, to reconfigure its priorities in the Middle East. In Lebanon, the Administration has coöperated with Saudi Arabia’s government, which is Sunni, in clandestine operations that are intended to weaken Hezbollah, the Shiite organization that is backed by Iran. The U.S. has also taken part in clandestine operations aimed at Iran and its ally Syria. A by-product of these activities has been the bolstering of Sunni extremist groups that espouse a militant vision of Islam and are hostile to America and sympathetic to Al Qaeda."
The Redirection

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

The Syrian freedom fighters are trying get rid of the dictator Assad and his brutal government. ....

After what happened in Iraq, I'm not sure the US always does the right thing.

 

[Balancer]

None reflect policy.

I know that this is not an official policy. But who knows what is guided by the US leadership behind closed doors. Objectively, the worse the situation in Eurasia, the better for the US.

Otherwise, we will have to admit that the US (as the head of the West) is leading a very primitive, short-sighted and erroneous policy. And I do not think that America, which has achieved such great success in politics and the economy, is so stupid. This makes us suspect the intent behind the outwardly "erroneous" moves of the United States.

Iraq War Created Isis, Concedes David Miliband

Tony Blair says he's sorry for Iraq War 'mistakes' - CNN

...

Is there at least one example of a successful and positive US intervention in the internal affairs of other states in the last 60 years?

 

[alang1216]

The U.S. has also taken part in clandestine operations aimed at Iran and its ally Syria. A by-product of these activities has been the bolstering of Sunni extremist groups that espouse a militant vision of Islam and are hostile to America and sympathetic to Al Qaeda."

"By-product" in this usage means an unintended consequence. Weakening Assad benefited many, including ISIS but it wasn't intended to help them.

by·prod·uct
ˈbīˌprädəkt/
noun
noun: by-product
an incidental or secondary product made in the manufacture or synthesis of something else.

"zinc is a byproduct of the glazing process"​

a secondary result, unintended but inevitably produced in doing or producing something else.

"he saw poverty as the byproduct of colonial prosperity"​

 

[alang1216]

Otherwise, we will have to admit that the US (as the head of the West) is leading a very primitive, short-sighted and erroneous policy. And I do not think that America, which has achieved such great success in politics and the economy, is so stupid. This makes us suspect the intent behind the outwardly "erroneous" moves of the United States.

Don't give us too much credit. We blew everything up in the region by our overthrow of Sadam. He was ruthless but kept Iraq together and was a check on Iran. Removing him was a stupid idea, not because he was a good ruler but because he was contained and we should have known the consequences would be disaster for us and just about everyone else.