Scruffy's math program for kids

scruffy

Diamond Member
Mar 9, 2022
23,690
19,658
2,288
Traditionally, math begins with addition, subtraction, and the multiplication tables in the 3rd grade or so. Then, there is an introduction to geometry, algebra, and calculus in high school. Finally, there is usually a course in differential equations in college, and maybe some complex analysis if you're in a STEM field, and somewhere along the way there is also probability and statistics.

Scruffy says, this is not enough. To be competent in the modern world, a college graduate should understand differential geometry and tensor calculus (same thing, kind of), topology, and abstract algebra including but not limited to the theory of groups, rings, modules, and categories. Waiting for graduate school to understand these things is a guarantee of difficulty. These topics should be well studied prerequisites for any kind of graduate work.

Scruffy proposes to condense the course work at the high school level, as the beginning of a new mathematics program. BEFORE we start learning about triangles, we need an exposure to surfaces. Otherwise, there is no motivation for triangles, trigonometry, or conic sections. 7th grade is the perfect time for a "survey of mathematics" course. Why are we learning abstract algebra? What good is it? Why is calculus important? What is topology, and what is differential geometry?

In 6th grade, is when we want to cover basic algebra, combinatorics, and probability.

The 8th grade algebra course should include systems of linear equations, matrix math, and change of coordinates in addition to polynomials.

The 9th grade geometry course should include manifolds and an introduction to dot product, cross product, and tensor product.

The 10th grade calculus course should include multi variable calculus and de-emphasize the memorization of integrals and derivatives. It should specifically include an introduction to differential equations. Students should understand Stokes' and Green's theorems by the end of the course.

All this will prepare the student for the typical 11th grade introduction to physics, which should include Hamiltonian and LaGrangian mechanics (introductory dynamics, the LaPlacian, what is a wave equation, and so on). Math in 11th grade should be fun, not rigorous. It should include topology, abstract algebra, and probability as an introduction to quantum science. It should also specifically include an introduction to non-Euclidean geometries. It should provide motivation for the continuing study of math in college.

This is an example of a math curriculum that provides motivation for continuing study:


Then, by the time we get to college, we ALREADY know what an orbit is, before we start taking first year physics and chemistry. We know what polar coordinates are BEFORE we have to solve problems involving angular momentum, and thus we can easily and intuitively understand concepts like quantum spin, and we can already start to manipulate them using spinors and quantum computing gates.

First year math in college should be hard core differential equations. (Since we already learned linear algebra and multi variable calculus in high school). It should also include an introduction to stochastic equations (like Brownian motion, which fits right in with first year chemistry and physics).

Second year math should be differential geometry and topology, with a focus on tensor calculus. By the end of the second year in college, students should be able to seamlessly transition between coordinates systems, both geometrically and algebraically. The course should include an introduction to measure theory and invariances, so we understand measure preserving and conformal transformations, and it should also include the mechanics of distances and angles on curved surfaces.

After all this, third year college math should focus on abstract algebra and algebraic topology, starting with immersions and including fiber bundles, sheaves, foliations, simplexes with graph theory, and so on.

Finally, senior level.math in college should once again be fun and motivational. Dimensionality is a good topic, fractional dimensions, dusts, space filling curves, fractal geometries, and so on. Electives might include a course in quantum field theory, for instance the creation and annihilation operators tie right in with dimensionality and also pertain to neural networks and machine learning. Advanced probability theory could be another elective - the Ito, Langevin, and Malliavin calculuses, how to solve non-equilibrium equations in open systems, information geometry, stochastic dynamics and stability, and entropy.

Anyone who graduates from college should be conversational with mathematics. It doesn't mean you have to pull equations out of your butt, it just means you have to be familiar with the principles. You don't have to know what a Lorentz boost is unless you're a physicist, but you should know enough about coordinates systems so someone could explain it to you in 5 minutes.

This business of graduating from college without knowing how to balance a checkbook has to stop. Scruffy says: if you want to graduate, you WILL learn math. If you can't do it, go to trade school instead. (Where you'll learn it anyway lol). :p
 
Hang on .
Sorry to ruin the party .
Your wish is based on having a system that helps its Sheeple .

I contend--- and history simply confirms it ---that the way we have been taught to think mathematically / scientifically has been deliberately arranged to hold back humanity and keep the much greater truths hidden .

In shorthand -- Deep State deliberately shoves Grit Theory down our silly throats ( atoms , Einstein etc) and keeps "us" thinking that the Holy Grail is finding the smallest ever bit of grit which will be the path to defining and producing Consciousness .
The Deep State mantra is ---Tell them Space is Empty and not crammed with Energy----- at its simplest .

Keep them away from Zero Point Energy at any cost or sacrifice .

But now , to their horror , Deep State is on the point of losing this most important battle .
 
Most students struggle with anything beyond basic arithmetic

Most adults rarely use algebra or geometry let alone calculus.
Basic probability and statistics are valuable
 
Most students struggle with anything beyond basic arithmetic

Most adults rarely use algebra or geometry let alone calculus.
Basic probability and statistics are valuable

Which is all very interesting but has exactly nothing to do with the only matter of key importance which is :-

How do you get Sheeple to believe what "we" want them to think and believe ?

And, by the same token :-

How do you get them to accept what "we" prescribe , in order to deflect them away from correct reasoning ---- and, in so doing , to hide specific areas .
 
Which is all very interesting but has exactly nothing to do with the only matter of key importance which is :-

How do you get Sheeple to believe what "we" want them to think and believe ?

And, by the same token :-

How do you get them to accept what "we" prescribe , in order to deflect them away from correct reasoning ---- and, in so doing , to hide specific areas .
What a ridiculous response

Has nothing to do with the OP
 
Traditionally, math begins with addition, subtraction, and the multiplication tables in the 3rd grade or so. Then, there is an introduction to geometry, algebra, and calculus in high school. Finally, there is usually a course in differential equations in college, and maybe some complex analysis if you're in a STEM field, and somewhere along the way there is also probability and statistics.

Scruffy says, this is not enough. To be competent in the modern world, a college graduate should understand differential geometry and tensor calculus (same thing, kind of), topology, and abstract algebra including but not limited to the theory of groups, rings, modules, and categories. Waiting for graduate school to understand these things is a guarantee of difficulty. These topics should be well studied prerequisites for any kind of graduate work.

Scruffy proposes to condense the course work at the high school level, as the beginning of a new mathematics program. BEFORE we start learning about triangles, we need an exposure to surfaces. Otherwise, there is no motivation for triangles, trigonometry, or conic sections. 7th grade is the perfect time for a "survey of mathematics" course. Why are we learning abstract algebra? What good is it? Why is calculus important? What is topology, and what is differential geometry?

In 6th grade, is when we want to cover basic algebra, combinatorics, and probability.

The 8th grade algebra course should include systems of linear equations, matrix math, and change of coordinates in addition to polynomials.

The 9th grade geometry course should include manifolds and an introduction to dot product, cross product, and tensor product.

The 10th grade calculus course should include multi variable calculus and de-emphasize the memorization of integrals and derivatives. It should specifically include an introduction to differential equations. Students should understand Stokes' and Green's theorems by the end of the course.

All this will prepare the student for the typical 11th grade introduction to physics, which should include Hamiltonian and LaGrangian mechanics (introductory dynamics, the LaPlacian, what is a wave equation, and so on). Math in 11th grade should be fun, not rigorous. It should include topology, abstract algebra, and probability as an introduction to quantum science. It should also specifically include an introduction to non-Euclidean geometries. It should provide motivation for the continuing study of math in college.

This is an example of a math curriculum that provides motivation for continuing study:


Then, by the time we get to college, we ALREADY know what an orbit is, before we start taking first year physics and chemistry. We know what polar coordinates are BEFORE we have to solve problems involving angular momentum, and thus we can easily and intuitively understand concepts like quantum spin, and we can already start to manipulate them using spinors and quantum computing gates.

First year math in college should be hard core differential equations. (Since we already learned linear algebra and multi variable calculus in high school). It should also include an introduction to stochastic equations (like Brownian motion, which fits right in with first year chemistry and physics).

Second year math should be differential geometry and topology, with a focus on tensor calculus. By the end of the second year in college, students should be able to seamlessly transition between coordinates systems, both geometrically and algebraically. The course should include an introduction to measure theory and invariances, so we understand measure preserving and conformal transformations, and it should also include the mechanics of distances and angles on curved surfaces.

After all this, third year college math should focus on abstract algebra and algebraic topology, starting with immersions and including fiber bundles, sheaves, foliations, simplexes with graph theory, and so on.

Finally, senior level.math in college should once again be fun and motivational. Dimensionality is a good topic, fractional dimensions, dusts, space filling curves, fractal geometries, and so on. Electives might include a course in quantum field theory, for instance the creation and annihilation operators tie right in with dimensionality and also pertain to neural networks and machine learning. Advanced probability theory could be another elective - the Ito, Langevin, and Malliavin calculuses, how to solve non-equilibrium equations in open systems, information geometry, stochastic dynamics and stability, and entropy.

Anyone who graduates from college should be conversational with mathematics. It doesn't mean you have to pull equations out of your butt, it just means you have to be familiar with the principles. You don't have to know what a Lorentz boost is unless you're a physicist, but you should know enough about coordinates systems so someone could explain it to you in 5 minutes.

This business of graduating from college without knowing how to balance a checkbook has to stop. Scruffy says: if you want to graduate, you WILL learn math. If you can't do it, go to trade school instead. (Where you'll learn it anyway lol). :p
I propose that scruffy should go and learn philosophy so that he better understands what the hell he's talking about.
 
Most students struggle with anything beyond basic arithmetic

That's because they focus on the technicals and don't provide motivation for it.

For instance - curved surfaces are very intuitive, you see them and use them every day.

The Riemann curvature tensor is very intuitive, you just ask "how curved is it?"

You can introduce these concepts to kids, they'll get it.

Most adults rarely use algebra or geometry let alone calculus.

Oh but you do! You may not be solving equations, but you use the principles all the time.

Basic probability and statistics are valuable
Yes they are.
 
Keep them away from Zero Point Energy at any cost or sacrifice .

See, you got it. We're entering an AI world, and we can't let the techno mages control it.

The only solution is to up our game.

Right now IBM will train you on quantum computing for free. You can even use their facilities. That situation won't last forever.

Kids need to understand these resources are available. Our son was into drones when he was just 10 years old, he started with "model rockets" and quickly surpassed anything available in school, "because he was interested" and wanted to learn. We listened to him bitching for almost an entire year before we figured out we had to create a curriculum for him (because the schools wouldn't do it).

Imagine what you could do with consciousness, it's one of the last wide open frontiers of science. Kids are into games. When I was a kid I used a GE timesharing system to program a computer to play Monopoly. Today I study consciousness, there was a natural progression from the Basic computer language to information geometry. It provided motivation to learn all kinds of great math. I was like Einstein, I flunked out of math in college because it was so dull and boring, but I learned it on my own afterwards when there was a reason to.
 
Good mathematics skills requires good teachers who can enthuse their students

Very true.

It's a skill that goes way beyond the technicals.

Tell me WHY I should care about Pythagoras. What has he ever done for me?

Did you know, the Chinese invented Gaussian elimination 1800 years before Newton? True dat. 300 BC or so.

Do you know how they came up with conic sections around the same time? By balancing buckets of water at the market.
 
I propose that scruffy should go and learn philosophy so that he better understands what the hell he's talking about.
I study logic. When I went to college it was Philosophy 101, you couldn't take any other philosophy class until you had the logic prerequisite.

When I took history and philosophy of science I had to lmao because the professor was a psychologist and spent half the course talking about dualism. If I knew then what I know now I would have torn him a new one in front of the entire class! :p
 
Very true.

It's a skill that goes way beyond the technical.

Tell me WHY I should care about Pythagoras. What has he ever done for me?
That's a silly question for a man who in his OP mentioned differential geometry as worthy of study.

If you actually knew what you were talking about you'd never ask that question about Pythagoras.

Pythagoras's theorem arises from the special case of the 2D metric tensor when using a cartesian coordinate system in flat space. The length of the line element in 2D is generically expressed as:

1736005929479.png


In the case of a flat 2D space of course

1736006199170.png


the line element degenerates to Pythagoras's theorem. As Gauss showed, the curvature of a 2D space expressed in terms of the metric tensor is:

1736006473837.png

Did you know, the Chinese invented Gaussian elimination 1800 years before Newton? True dat. 300 BC or so.

Do you know how they came up with conic sections around the same time? By balancing buckets of water at the market.
 
Last edited:
That's a silly question for a man who in his OP mentioned differential geometry as worthy of study.

If you actually knew what you were talking about you'd never ask that question about Pythagoras.

Pythagoras's theorem arises from the special case of the 2D metric tensor when using a cartesian coordinate system in flat space. The length of the line element in 2D is generically expressed as:

View attachment 1061488

In the case of a flat 2D space of course

View attachment 1061492

the line element degenerates to Pythagoras's theorem.
Your reading comprehension isn't very good.
 
Your reading comprehension isn't very good.

Read this then dickhead:

1736006789148.png


Pythagoras' theorem is a special case and is fundamental in the study of differential geometry and general relativity.

1736007133408.png


Your OP like most of your posts is nothing more than an exercise in narcissism coupled with ignorance; you can fool some of the people some of the time etc...
 
Last edited:
Read this then dickhead:

View attachment 1061496

Pythagoras' theorem is a special case and is fundamental in the study of differential geometry and general relativity.

View attachment 1061500

Your OP like most of your posts is nothing more than an exercise in narcissism coupled with ignorance; you can fool some of the people some of the time etc...
Sigh. Leftards are dumber than I thought.
 
Sigh. Leftards are dumber than I thought.
Why attack me and not what I said about mathematics? I actually deserve a "thank you" for educating you today and all you can do is whine because you're fragile fake ego was hurt.

All those years that you never really understood Pythagoras's theorem, such a shame our modern education system.

1736014145820.png
 
Last edited:
Why attack me and not what I said about mathematics? I actually deserve a "thank you" for educating you today and all you can do is whine because you're fragile fake ego was hurt.

All those years that you never really understood Pythagoras's theorem, such a shame our modern education system.

View attachment 1061544
You're a fucking moron.

If you try to use Pythagoras on a curved surface you will FAIL.

Go back to school. Study remedial reading.
 
You're a fucking moron.
Yet I'm correct and you are not.
If you try to use Pythagoras on a curved surface you will FAIL.
Who said you can use Pythagoras's theorem on a curved surface? I said that the generalized Pythagorean theorem can be used for a curved surface, look I was correct too:

1736014622312.png


What is true is that any curved surface appears flat when we take a sufficiently small area. This is why special relativity can always be used in a sufficiently small space over a sufficiently short time.
Go back to school. Study remedial reading.
Why? everything I've told you is true as you can see, it's not my fault you didn't know all this.
 
Yet I'm correct and you are not.

Who said you can use Pythagoras's theorem on a curved surface? I said that the generalized Pythagorean theorem can be used for a curved surface, look I was correct too:

View attachment 1061549

What is true is that any curved surface appears flat when we take a sufficiently small area. This is why special relativity can always be used in a sufficiently small space over a sufficiently short time.

Why? everything I've told you is true as you can see, it's not my fault you didn't know all this.
Your reading comprehension sucks.

Your education sucks.

You suck.

There is no "generalized Pythagoras theorem", you idiot. No such thing.
 

Forum List

Back
Top