Should any government silence dissenters of religion if they are not promoting violence?

[Sunni Man]

 

[Joy4Uall]

Islam would spread faster if it could improve its texts to be as loving as Scientific Humanism is - one example is for Islam to remove the parts that say women's testimony are worth only HALF that of the (apparently superior) man, and replace it with Scientific Humanism's belief to basically "treat women as equals - so base things on MERIT, and not on whether someone has an 'innie' or an 'outie' between their legs."
That would be what's best for the world, obviously. Like Scientific Humanism, if Islam could be seen as teaching "what's best for the world" (sending all Jews to "hell" is not what's best for the world, of course, as an example), then it would be able to compete, ethically, with Scientific Humanism.

Scientific Humanism is just double speak for secular atheism. Which eventually leads to totalitarian communism.

So no, Islam is not going to change or modify even one single word of the Quran or its teachings. ...

Thanks for your feeback.

SH believes in, basically, "no violence against women", so we did bring forward, say the great Islamic concept of Zakat (charity - we admire that greatly), but couldn't bring forward Q4:34 which says to BEAT women, and that men are superior to women, and that men and women are not equals because men are in charge of women: The Koran instructs men to beat their wives: Six translations of Qur'an 4:34
Can we agree that bringing forward Zakat (and loving Muslims dearly like we do), but not bringing forward beating women, is what's best for the world, Sunni Man? In other words, can't we love our mothers and daughters so much that we can't stand to see them beaten?

"Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in their sleeping places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great." (Shakir's version of the Koran, Quran, 4:34)

 

[Joy4Uall]

That's one Nazi that I actually MISS!

 

[Joy4Uall]

The man being prosecuted in Denmark had burnt a Quran.

That is blasphemy and he should be severely punished. .....

Scientific Humanism is more, well, tolerant than that - can we agree that tolerance of people giving their opinions (even if "blasphemous") is a good thing, even when we really really disagree with what they say?

"When in doubt, err on the side of freedom" - The Book of Scientific Humamism

 

[ding]

The man being prosecuted in Denmark had burnt a Quran.

That is blasphemy and he should be severely punished. .....

Scientific Humanism is more, well, tolerant than that - can we agree that tolerance of people giving their opinions (even if "blasphemous") is a good thing, even when we really really disagree with what they say?
"When in doubt, err on the side of freedom" - The Book of Scientific Humamism

I can't think of a more dangerous religion than humanism. The last time we had that 200 million people were murdered.

 

[Sunni Man]

Sorry, but the Quran cannot be modified or changed for any reason. .....

 

[Joy4Uall]

Islam would spread faster if it could improve its texts to be as loving as Scientific Humanism is - one example is for Islam to remove the parts that say women's testimony are worth only HALF that of the (apparently superior) man, and replace it with Scientific Humanism's belief to basically "treat women as equals - so base things on MERIT, and not on whether someone has an 'innie' or an 'outie' between their legs."
That would be what's best for the world, obviously. Like Scientific Humanism, if Islam could be seen as teaching "what's best for the world" (sending all Jews to "hell" is not what's best for the world, of course, as an example), then it would be able to compete, ethically, with Scientific Humanism.

Scientific Humanism is just double speak for secular atheism. Which eventually leads to totalitarian communism.

So no, Islam is not going to change or modify even one single word of the Quran or its teachings. ...

Do you, like SH, believe in your children so incredibly much that you believe that they, someday, might be able to improve on your texts (in your case the Islamic texts)? For example, don't you have enough faith in your offspring that you feel that some day they might come up with more loving wording than where the Islamic texts (no offense) say to kill gays? I know they are capable of that - if you teach them love and not hatred. My gut feeling is that you are a good parent.

Here's what our belief system teaches: tell your children that you believe in them so much that you believe that someday they will improve on the texts of your belief system!
Center for Scientific Humanism: How good of a parent are you – versus a Christian/Muslim?

Choose love over hatred, my friend. I have faith....faith in you and your children.

 

[Joy4Uall]

The man being prosecuted in Denmark had burnt a Quran.

That is blasphemy and he should be severely punished. .....

Scientific Humanism is more, well, tolerant than that - can we agree that tolerance of people giving their opinions (even if "blasphemous") is a good thing, even when we really really disagree with what they say?
"When in doubt, err on the side of freedom" - The Book of Scientific Humamism

I can't think of a more dangerous religion than humanism. The last time we had that 200 million people were murdered.

Yes, we strongly agree with each other that totalitarian dictators (yes, even secular ones) are not what's best for the world!

Fortunately I'm not a communist, or approve of dictatorships (Jesus approved of totalitarian political schemes and didn't believe in democracy, so SH doesn't bring forward those parts of the Bible, but does bring forward "love your neighbor" - Jesus got some things right and some wrong.)

Fortunately my belief system values freedom/democracy more than Christianity, Islam, etc do, in fact more than any other overall belief system I've ever heard of (sorry, communists)....here is the #1 "Commandment" of SH:
1. Believe in freedom:
a. Political (secular democracy)
b. Religious
c. Freedom of speech (vs. being overly politically-correct, etc.)
Center for Scientific Humanism: The Ten Commandments of Scientific Humanism

Can you and I agree that we love freedom so much that we agree that this is a striking improvement over the Bible that does approve of, say, beating slaves, but does not mention democracy? And is best for the world (over the largely-well intended Bible, even?)
"When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property." (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

 

[Joy4Uall]

Sorry, but the Quran cannot be modified or changed for any reason. .....

I believe that your children are smart enough to improve on the part that says that women only get HALF the inheritance of a man - don't you?

 

[RodISHI]

The man being prosecuted in Denmark had burnt a Quran.

That is blasphemy and he should be severely punished. .....

Scientific Humanism is more, well, tolerant than that - can we agree that tolerance of people giving their opinions (even if "blasphemous") is a good thing, even when we really really disagree with what they say?
"When in doubt, err on the side of freedom" - The Book of Scientific Humamism

I can't think of a more dangerous religion than humanism. The last time we had that 200 million people were murdered.

Yes, we strongly agree with each other that totalitarian dictators (yes, even secular ones) are not what's best for the world!

Fortunately I'm not a communist, or approve of dictatorships (Jesus approved of totalitarian political schemes and didn't believe in democracy, so SH doesn't bring forward those parts of the Bible, but does bring forward "love your neighbor" - Jesus got some things right and some wrong.)

Fortunately my belief system values freedom/democracy more than Christianity, Islam, etc do, in fact more than any other overall belief system I've ever heard of (sorry, communists)....here is the #1 "Commandment" of SH:
1. Believe in freedom:
a. Political (secular democracy)
b. Religious
c. Freedom of speech (vs. being overly politically-correct, etc.)
Center for Scientific Humanism: The Ten Commandments of Scientific Humanism

Can you and I agree that we love freedom so much that we agree that this is a striking improvement over the Bible that does approve of, say, beating slaves, but does not mention democracy? And is best for the world (over the largely-well intended Bible, even?)
"When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property." (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

Actually Jesus spoke to the personal relationship thingy and told his followers to walk in 'truth and spirit'. Evidently Humanist do not get that personal relationship part with the spirit of life that resides in them.

 

[Sunni Man]

We have seen what happen to Christianity over the last couple of centuries, when it started adjusting its Holy books to accommodate its detractors and tone down those verses which offended them. The religion was slowly gutted of its core teachings.

So that today, Christianity the once great religion, is a mere shell of itself. Only something like 2% of Europeans attend church. And to be a Christian is to be ridiculed in the media as to be odd and out of touch.

We refuse to let that happen to Islam. .....

 

[RodISHI]

The man being prosecuted in Denmark had burnt a Quran.

That is blasphemy and he should be severely punished. .....

Scientific Humanism is more, well, tolerant than that - can we agree that tolerance of people giving their opinions (even if "blasphemous") is a good thing, even when we really really disagree with what they say?
"When in doubt, err on the side of freedom" - The Book of Scientific Humamism

I can't think of a more dangerous religion than humanism. The last time we had that 200 million people were murdered.

Yes, we strongly agree with each other that totalitarian dictators (yes, even secular ones) are not what's best for the world!

Fortunately I'm not a communist, or approve of dictatorships (Jesus approved of totalitarian political schemes and didn't believe in democracy, so SH doesn't bring forward those parts of the Bible, but does bring forward "love your neighbor" - Jesus got some things right and some wrong.)

Fortunately my belief system values freedom/democracy more than Christianity, Islam, etc do, in fact more than any other overall belief system I've ever heard of (sorry, communists)....here is the #1 "Commandment" of SH:
1. Believe in freedom:
a. Political (secular democracy)
b. Religious
c. Freedom of speech (vs. being overly politically-correct, etc.)
Center for Scientific Humanism: The Ten Commandments of Scientific Humanism

Can you and I agree that we love freedom so much that we agree that this is a striking improvement over the Bible that does approve of, say, beating slaves, but does not mention democracy? And is best for the world (over the largely-well intended Bible, even?)
"When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property." (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

That would be that personal relationship thingy again speaking about the spiritual slaves within you.

 

[Joy4Uall]

The man being prosecuted in Denmark had burnt a Quran.

That is blasphemy and he should be severely punished. .....

Scientific Humanism is more, well, tolerant than that - can we agree that tolerance of people giving their opinions (even if "blasphemous") is a good thing, even when we really really disagree with what they say?
"When in doubt, err on the side of freedom" - The Book of Scientific Humamism

I can't think of a more dangerous religion than humanism. The last time we had that 200 million people were murdered.

One might think it's a "religion", sure, but it's actually not, my friend. SH is not a "religion", but is, yes, an overall belief system. Let me prove that to you: "religions" seem to almost all have unscientific things in them, but, uh, SCIENTIFIC Humanism (surprise, surprise!) does not have unscientific things in it.

The #2 "commandment" of the SH 10 "Commandments" is:
2. Be extremely skeptical of all supernatural-related claims.
For the answers to Universe/Nature look to evidence-based scientific-inquiry (current and future progress,) and human reason.


You deserve a scientifically-correct belief system. If "god" exists then he would have created science....so why not follow his science ("walking on water", and a man living inside a fish for 3 days is not scientific, of course - so we don't bring those parts forward...."love your neighbor"(?) - yes, bring that part forward.

And bring forward the best parts of Sunni Man's great book (Qur'an). One of the top 5 things in Islam is Zakat (charity), and that's better than Christianity because charity is not in the top 5, nor the top 10, Commandments. But it is indeed in the top 10 of Scientific Humanism's top 10, so SH and Islam are better than the Bible in this one regard (no offense to Christians,however):
8. Do charity/volunteer work.

 

[Joy4Uall]

We have seen what happen to Christianity over the last couple of centuries, when it started adjusting its Holy books to accommodate its detractors and tone down those verses which offended them. The religion was slowly gutted of its core teachings.

So that today, Christianity the once great religion, is a mere shell of itself. Only something like 2% of Europeans attend church. And to be a Christian is to be ridiculed in the media as to be odd and out of touch.

We refuse to let that happen to Islam. .....

I admire your passion.
Do you think that your kids are smart enough to someday come up with better wording than wording that says a woman's testimony is worth HALF that of a man's (that's in the Qur'an)? You seem to not answer my questions directly, so I'm going to ask you to answer them directly, if you don't mind.

Enjoy the rest of this great night.

 

[Joy4Uall]

Sorry, but the Quran cannot be modified or changed for any reason. .....

1.5 billion people can't improve on a person who, for example, didn't know where the sun went at night (who lived 1400 years ago)?

 

[Sunni Man]

I believe that your children are smart enough to improve on the part that says that women only get HALF the inheritance of a man - don't you?

#1) the Quran doesn't need improvement or modification. So quit insulting me with your insistence that it does.

#2) The reason a man gets more inheritance than a woman. Is because in Islam he has the financial responsibility to take care of his parents in their old age. The woman doesn't have that burden. So now you know.

#3) I can easily see this isn't your first rodeo in debating Islam. Judging by your canned answers and set up questions. ....

 

[RodISHI]

We have seen what happen to Christianity over the last couple of centuries, when it started adjusting its Holy books to accommodate its detractors and tone down those verses which offended them. The religion was slowly gutted of its core teachings.

So that today, Christianity the once great religion, is a mere shell of itself. Only something like 2% of Europeans attend church. And to be a Christian is to be ridiculed in the media as to be odd and out of touch.

We refuse to let that happen to Islam. .....

Sunni you can subscribe to their blog and provide some financial support for two bucks a month.

 

[Sunni Man]

Sunni you can subscribe to their blog and provide some financial support for two bucks a month.

Yea, I'm pulling out my credit card right now.

 

[Joy4Uall]

.......

#2) The reason a man gets more inheritance than a woman. Is because in Islam he has the financial responsibility to take care of his parents in their old age. The woman doesn't have that burden. So now you know.

.......

Specifically regarding women, there is a better way, mi amigo:
We love the women in your family so much that we teach to “not discriminate against women” and “base rewards on merit, not on gender”. Scientific Humanism believes that our texts can move beyond sexism once and for all. Bible/Jesus/Qur’an, though well-intended, teach that your mother and daughters are worth ½ that of a man (Lev 27:3-7, Q2:282, Q4:176, etc.)
Center for Scientific Humanism: Search results for women

In regards to race we try to be "colorblind".....in regards to gender we try to be "equalist, not sexist".

 

[Sunni Man]

I just happened to be watching a youtube video on Friedrich Nietzsche.

He was like the high priest of secular humanists. ...

Here is a short indepth article on the subject.

Face to faith: New atheists duck the philosophical arguments of atheistic anti-humanism