Social engineering at its finest?

[skookerasbil]

Yeah too bad. Main reason for me is that by reducing carbon we also reduce many other nasty going into our air.

Mercury from coal power plants for one.

Listen s0n..........most Americans like living in modern society. I would suggest you maybe move to Siberia........get a hut and live on the tundra with the goats......save the world.

 

[Si modo]

There are signs that the data was cooked. Also, most of the Data on climate change does seem to come form this group.

Global warming looks like it is in a slow boil. We have to wait and see what the end conclusions are from the scientific community. By the way, It does not look good for Greens.

what signs are there that the data was cooked.

the *loss* of the raw data would be kind of suspicious, IMO. it's their life's work and they toss the raw data and keep the *value added* (their words, not mine) data.

And, those managing the database were instructed to fill the gaps in data collection with whatever they could make up. Their words, not mine.

 

[Si modo]

But this is one centre or at least a centre and a network of scientists. It's not the whole discipline around the world is it?

beats me. so far, there are only academic fraud investigations in the UK and the US.

imo, real scientists don't toss out their raw data.

They don't.

 

[Si modo]

well CRU does supply some data - but I guess regardless of what group he is talking about, no one group has supplied "most" of the data on climate change.

The data and all the peer-reviewed work goes WAAAAAY beyond the stretch of these few emails.

But I guess if the folks who are overstating the case for anthropogenic climate change got hold of something like this on the deniers, they'd try to claim it completely undermines their case as well.

That's the big problem with the debate on climate change. It has degenerated into two warring factions who overstate their case and sling insults at the others. Neither can be trusted to lead us to reasonable and responsible environmental policies imho.

yep.
this doesn't help either-

"SCIENTISTS at the University of East Anglia (UEA) have admitted throwing away much of the raw temperature data on which their predictions of global warming are based.

It means that other academics are not able to check basic calculations said to show a long-term rise in temperature over the past 150 years.

The UEA’s Climatic Research Unit (CRU) was forced to reveal the loss following requests for the data under Freedom of Information legislation.

The data were gathered from weather stations around the world and then adjusted to take account of variables in the way they were collected. The revised figures were kept, but the originals — stored on paper and magnetic tape — were dumped to save space when the CRU moved to a new building."

Climate change data dumped - Times Online

i'm sorry, but throwing out the raw data does not engender trust.
as you said, it's a real setback for everyone

Yes, in that it gives the deniers something else to put on bumper stickers - but it remains to be seen if the science has been compromised. And there are other sources for data as well.

But you are absolutely correct - it is a setback. But if it's only a setback for the folks who are working so hard to overstate and over dramatize the science - I won't consider that a bad thing.

What are the "deniers" denying?

 

[ihopehefails]

It is all part of the corporate war on independent science.

Can't have science interfering with profit now can we?

That is the enemy of society isn't it? Can you tell me why if something was interfering with the middle-class to benefit then it should be stopped but if something were benefiting any member of society outside of that group then that benefit should be removed from society?