Specter’s Party Switch Underscores Moderates Need To Fight For A Home in Republican P

[Iriemon]

BS, there is no amount of money that he can spend that will avoid deepening this recession.

That's BS. It's already prevented a complete collapse of the financial industry.



You got the wrong lesson. The great depression only turned around after massive Govt intervention under FDR's new deal.



GDP fell 6% real annualized. Many banks and financial institutions have failed and many more would have but for the bail-out and the entire US automotive manufacturering industry is on the bring of extinction. It's enough objective fact for me.

Nobody I've heard is making excuses for Bush's profligate spending. But, Obama is dead set on making whatever Bush spent look trivial by comparison.

Funny, I heard people making excuses for Bush's deficits for 8 years.

Keep believing the government can spend enough to turn around a recession. You'll see. You'll still be telling me how its working 4 years from now. There is only one way that government can turn this around, and that is to use the multiplier effect of private industry. Obama is not about to do that, so you'll get a nice front row seat to economic disaster.

You didn't hear me defending Bush for profligate spending, of course I was never a fan of Bush. I agreed with him where I thought the policies were right, but I was never a fan of his.

I certainly wasn't part of the group that elected him twice.

 

[Iriemon]

BS, there is no amount of money that he can spend that will avoid deepening this recession.

That's BS. It's already prevented a complete collapse of the financial industry.



You got the wrong lesson. The great depression only turned around after massive Govt intervention under FDR's new deal.



GDP fell 6% real annualized. Many banks and financial institutions have failed and many more would have but for the bail-out and the entire US automotive manufacturering industry is on the bring of extinction. It's enough objective fact for me.

Nobody I've heard is making excuses for Bush's profligate spending. But, Obama is dead set on making whatever Bush spent look trivial by comparison.

Funny, I heard people making excuses for Bush's deficits for 8 years.

Keep believing the government can spend enough to turn around a recession. You'll see. You'll still be telling me how its working 4 years from now. There is only one way that government can turn this around, and that is to use the multiplier effect of private industry. Obama is not about to do that, so you'll get a nice front row seat to economic disaster.

You didn't hear me defending Bush for profligate spending, of course I was never a fan of Bush. I agreed with him where I thought the policies were right, but I was never a fan of his.

I certainly wasn't part of the group that elected him twice.

 

[Toro]

The Republican Party on the way to emulating the old British Labour Party.

...

What makes no sense at all is the even more prevalent view in the party that fence-sitters such as Mr Specter should have been purged already – that the path back to power lies in ideological purity and a re-energised conservative base.

One thinks of the British Labour party’s reaction to Margaret Thatcher’s victory in 1979. Labour lost because it had not been socialist enough, was the party’s diagnosis: it needed to be truer to itself. Having forgotten how you win elections – namely, by occupying the middle ground – the party then lost its desire to win them. Better to be true to your principles and out of power than to compromise. True to its principles, it was out of power for nearly 20 years, and the Thatcher revolution transformed the country.

The Republicans’ emulation of this proven model of political failure takes on an even more farcical aspect when you consider the conservative ideas to which party purists say they want to return. Labour under Michael Foot at least had an alternative programme of policy and a leader – almost any is better than none – to enunciate it. Republicans have neither. Their platform, if you can call it that, is a compendium of slogans and prejudices, bound together by disgust at the Obama administration. With the economy in its present state, this is no time to be saying “government is the problem” – especially if you have nothing further to add and the economy’s troubles are universally understood to be the legacy of a Republican president.

The party needs to frame practical, coherent, and above all centrist alternatives to what Mr Obama and his congressional allies are doing. Instead, it wants to shore up its base, chant its slogans and purge its moderates. You have to laugh. Yet this gleeful suicidal tendency is sad as well as funny. There is plenty of scope for calm, centrist criticism of Mr Obama’s bold progressive agenda. The country needs exactly this.

...

FT.com / Columnists / Clive Crook - Republicans all at sea as party sinks

 

[Tech_Esq]

The Republican Party on the way to emulating the old British Labour Party.

...

What makes no sense at all is the even more prevalent view in the party that fence-sitters such as Mr Specter should have been purged already – that the path back to power lies in ideological purity and a re-energised conservative base.

One thinks of the British Labour party’s reaction to Margaret Thatcher’s victory in 1979. Labour lost because it had not been socialist enough, was the party’s diagnosis: it needed to be truer to itself. Having forgotten how you win elections – namely, by occupying the middle ground – the party then lost its desire to win them. Better to be true to your principles and out of power than to compromise. True to its principles, it was out of power for nearly 20 years, and the Thatcher revolution transformed the country.

The Republicans’ emulation of this proven model of political failure takes on an even more farcical aspect when you consider the conservative ideas to which party purists say they want to return. Labour under Michael Foot at least had an alternative programme of policy and a leader – almost any is better than none – to enunciate it. Republicans have neither. Their platform, if you can call it that, is a compendium of slogans and prejudices, bound together by disgust at the Obama administration. With the economy in its present state, this is no time to be saying “government is the problem” – especially if you have nothing further to add and the economy’s troubles are universally understood to be the legacy of a Republican president.

The party needs to frame practical, coherent, and above all centrist alternatives to what Mr Obama and his congressional allies are doing. Instead, it wants to shore up its base, chant its slogans and purge its moderates. You have to laugh. Yet this gleeful suicidal tendency is sad as well as funny. There is plenty of scope for calm, centrist criticism of Mr Obama’s bold progressive agenda. The country needs exactly this.

...

FT.com / Columnists / Clive Crook - Republicans all at sea as party sinks

I think it is an incorrect analysis to say that the Repubs are acting like the labour party. It may turn out that way if nothing else happens, but that's not what I'm hearing. I think the Republican party has gone from 1980 to now without any serious reflecting on who and what they are. They have collected a lot of strap hangers of all stripes in the intervening 30 years. Now that the Repubs have lost all their majorities, it is time to step back and have a period or reevaluation, reflection and purging. After that, the core of the Republican party needs to refocus itself on its principles, whatever they are and regrow, with a new message and renewed vigor, the Party from that spot.

The Republicans are well beyond doing simple quick fixes like moving toward the center or "reaching across the aisle" or other such banalities. They need a fundemental restructuring of the message and a determination of what their core philosophies are going to be moving forward. I feel like there is a rather amorphous agreement on generally the "kind" of things they espouse, but the message is not shape or clear. And, of course, they lack a messenger they can put forward to carry this strong message that will ring true to every ear in America. They have it in there, but it is in no danger of getting out right now.

It's only been 6 months since the last election, I don't think time is critical at this point. One thing is sure, if what they come up with is Democrat Lite, it's a sure loser. As between a real Democrat and a Diet Democrat, the real Dem will get picked every time.

 

[DamnYankee]

I am a devout Independent and Republican from Pennsylvania. Although I am extremely disappointed in Senator Specter for becoming a Democrat I completely understand his actions and will still be voting for his reelection next year. The Conservative Right Wing has taken over the Republican Party and they make it such that elected Republicans that don’t tow their line are considered traitors. This Right Wing is greatly responsible for thinning the ranks of the Republican Party and it is completely understandable that Arlen Specter would not want to subject himself to a vetting in a primary election by a right wing electorate that doesn’t represent mainstream America and doesn’t offer a good future for all America.
(snipped)

Read this Op-Ed in the NYTimes the other day. It seems appropriate here.

May 5, 2009
Op-Ed Columnist
A Hole in the Center
By ROSS DOUTHAT
You can’t have a successful political party without centrists. Happily for Republicans still smarting from last week’s defection, you can have a successful political party without centrists like Arlen Specter.
continued....
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/05/opinion/05douthat.html

 

[foggedinn]

I wonder why people keep equating right wing with conservative. Or for that matter, left wing with liberal. Seems to me that the right wing has been anything but conservative, and the left wing has been anything but liberal.

Why do people get to self-define themselves as something that they aren't? And why do the rest of us take them seriously?

 

[garyd]

The Republicans didn't lose because they became more narrow and conservartive idiots. They lost because they became democrat light.

The Damn problem was never the tax cuts it was huge amounts of new social spending No Child left Behind. Medicare/medicaid drug coverage. And a host of other things that in total cost dwarf the cost of The GWOT.

 

[Avatar4321]

Why exactly does everyone seem to think we want a man who repeatedly stabbed us in the back when we needed him?

This isnt about towing the party line. there are always issues where people can disagree with. We are talking about fundamental policy disagreements and political expediency. I am tired of a politician thinking he can represent me and then flip me the bird after he has gotten my vote. Im tired of a politician who thinks he can say something one day, do something completely different the next and then assume we are stupid we are going to vote for him despite that as though we arent paying attention.

If you want to continue voting for someone who decides to do whats politically expedient for himself, if you want to continue voting for someone who treats his constituents like they are idiots, then go ahead and vote for Arlen.

But dont pretend this is some "extreme" fraction of the Republican party trying to take out the moderates. We arent. Arlen isnt moderate. He's a slimy two faced politician. And this party change is a perfect example of that. Especially when weeks earlier he is saying that he wouldnt change parties on principle.

Like I said, if you can support that bullcrap, go ahead and vote for him. But dont pretend as though the rest of us are just some stupid little morons who are going to bend over and take it up the ass just because you tell a convincing lie.

 

[editec]

Just remember Moderates are called liberals by conservatives and conservative by Liberals.

And Moderation in defense of liberty is no virtue

TYell me again, what are you defending liberty from??

He's defending it from moderation, naturally.

Idealogues are like that.

 

[Toro]

And Moderation in defense of liberty is no virtue

TYell me again, what are you defending liberty from??

He's defending it from moderation, naturally.

Idealogues are like that.

Insanity in defense of liberty is no virtue either.

 

[Bfgrn]

The Republicans didn't lose because they became more narrow and conservartive idiots. They lost because they became democrat light.

The Damn problem was never the tax cuts it was huge amounts of new social spending No Child left Behind. Medicare/medicaid drug coverage. And a host of other things that in total cost dwarf the cost of The GWOT.

Spoken like a true Rush/Hannity sheeple...

KEEP believing that crap and the GOP will cease to exist...

The Republicans lost because they became more narrow and conservative idiots.

The problem WAS tax cuts for the rich; as the middle class was shut out and pushed down...the average working man or woman saw everything in their lives increase except wages and benefits...Health care alone increased over 73% during the Bush years...

The middle class now stands on house of cards...CREDIT cards...the average credit card debt per family is around $8,000!

Jobs? Bush had the WORST record of job creation of any modern president. Then you have right wing ideologues like Grover Norquist, the GOP's economic guru saying "We're going to crush labor as a political entity"... labor IS the middle class...labor IS American citizens, not some foreign enemy!!!

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2009/01/09/bush-on-jobs-the-worst-track-record-on-record/

The only thing that trickled down was the right wing bullshit from pea brain sheep...

 

[GHook93]

The Hill’s Blog Briefing Room » VIDEO: MoveOn attacks Specter

First, he has the right moving against him (which has kept him in office). Next, he has the Democrats in the House moving against him (stripping his seniority status). Now the leftist base is moving against him also. I predict a land-slide loss for Spector in the primaries. I predict Obama goes back on his pledge to campaign for Spector. Spector made his bed and its time for him to die in it. Hope you treat the private sector better!

 

[garyd]

Spoken like a true lock step leftist BFgrn. How was a pesident moving to the right by crating no child left behind and a medicare drug benefit. The poorest tax payers got a fifty percent tax cut the richest a 3% tax cut tell me how that is a taqx cut for the rich by any sane definition.

Your side spent the last eight years lying about GW Bush now you've got a president that whose policies differ only in the amount he wants to spend on the programs that got us here in the first place.

You can't show many one single shred of evidence that suggest the Republicans moved anywhere in the general vacinity of the right during the general election.