Thank Tesla: The Biggest Obstacle to EV Ownership Will Soon Be History

[candycorn]

Your mistake is to allow GM, Chrysler, Tesla, or Ford to dictate what will be defined as a common design. Capitalism is profoundly illiterate, and all these companies will play, for their benefit, the anachronistic card to keep the same dies in the die shop. Consumer be damned.

Well okay but as I stated earlier in this thread...I drive like 30,000 miles a year some years. Mostly for business. I’ve got to be there at 0900 the next morning. If I’m driving from Phoenix to Santa Fe and have to charge my car for 2-3 hours, that is a problem for me. The Chinese have figured it out (it seems) with the swap-out model. They can impose discipline of course and we cannot in our open free society. But it would be peachy if someone in the board room though about this obvious issue while the cars were still on the drawing board. Charging is getting faster all the time. Until they can get it down to (at least) 2X as long as it takes to fill up...I think it is going to be a hard sell for travelers. Commuters? Thats a different market.

 

[petro]

Auto expert says Tesla's Model Y battery pack has 'zero repairability,' so a minor collision can junk the car

EV batteries bring all sorts of challenges when they get damaged after accidents. One expert says Tesla customers are especially at risk.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[justoffal]

In China it takes 5 minutes to swap out the batteries in the model.

Of course we don’t have standardized models like they may have in China. So we’re behind the 8 ball on this one.

Bingo

 

[justoffal]

Well okay but as I stated earlier in this thread...I drive like 30,000 miles a year some years. Mostly for business. I’ve got to be there at 0900 the next morning. If I’m driving from Phoenix to Santa Fe and have to charge my car for 2-3 hours, that is a problem for me. The Chinese have figured it out (it seems) with the swap-out model. They can impose discipline of course and we cannot in our open free society. But it would be peachy if someone in the board room though about this obvious issue while the cars were still on the drawing board. Charging is getting faster all the time. Until they can get it down to (at least) 2X as long as it takes to fill up...I think it is going to be a hard sell for travelers. Commuters? Thats a different market.

The mass charging station would need a minimum of ten acres. I'm thinking 30 to be practical. If the station had 12 to 24 high speed charging stations it would need to have its own substation. 13,800V to 600V step down. The amperage would be massive. The stations would have to have 8 gauge delivery systems to avoid melting temperatures.
I dunno.

I

 

[Flash]

The mass charging station would need a minimum of ten acres. I'm thinking 30 to be practical. If the station had 12 to 24 high speed charging stations it would need to have its own substation. 13,800V to 600V step down. The amperage would be massive. The stations would have to have 8 gauge delivery systems to avoid melting temperatures. I dunno. 8 gauge is about 100 bucks a foot I believe.

I dunno

Can you imagine the power input it would take for a mass charging station? It would almost need to have its very own power generation station.

 

[leftwinger]

WHY? I already have a good 87octane Gas car and filling stations all over every metropolitan area. Stations along every Interstate trip every 250 miles at least. Maybe 400 miles range needed max in a gas car to never be stranded.

again, WHY? Whats in it (EV) for me?

 

[flack]

Hydrogen fuel cell will put an end to this battery bullshit.

 

[Flash]

I read a report a few months back that said if only 30% of the vehicles in California were EVs they would have to build four Diablo Canyon size nuclear power reactors (20 Gigawats) just to provide the additional charging capacity over the present power requirements.

Of course the stupid Environmental Wackos would say just to put in a few more solar farms.

 

[justoffal]

Can you imagine the power input it would take for a mass charging station? It would almost need to have its very own power generation station.

Yeah the local utility is going to hit then hard for volt amperes reactive too unless they install a large capacity power factor correction station, a housing containing industrial sized capacitor banks. It too would need to be cooled.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Hydrogen fuel cell will put an end to this battery bullshit.

Where are you getting the hydrogen?

 

[justoffal]

Where are you getting the hydrogen?

From the hydrogen shack....I mean sheesh!

 

[badger2]

Well okay but as I stated earlier in this thread...I drive like 30,000 miles a year some years. Mostly for business. I’ve got to be there at 0900 the next morning. If I’m driving from Phoenix to Santa Fe and have to charge my car for 2-3 hours, that is a problem for me. The Chinese have figured it out (it seems) with the swap-out model. They can impose discipline of course and we cannot in our open free society. But it would be peachy if someone in the board room though about this obvious issue while the cars were still on the drawing board. Charging is getting faster all the time. Until they can get it down to (at least) 2X as long as it takes to fill up...I think it is going to be a hard sell for travelers. Commuters? Thats a different market.

The fusion of traveler-commuter market will be the standardization of batteries and vending. With attendants and security, battery swap-outs can happen faster than gasoline fill-ups. Boebert does not like children lithium-mining in the DRC.

1.) Eliminate Chinese Communist pedophilia by recycling all lithium America now owns, with (Trump-like?) sanctions against lithium pedophilia and slave-driving imports. This makes Chinese plans to rule the world much more costly than they had previously thought. It's like making Mexico pay for the Wall.

2.) The Auto Industry's views on things are anachronistic, bulemic and authoritarian. This Pimp will dictate for us what will be defined as a "standard." For example, the delirium of a 900-pound battery being hauled perversely across the surface of the planet in a metallic cockroach.

 

[badger2]

Well okay but as I stated earlier in this thread...I drive like 30,000 miles a year some years. Mostly for business. I’ve got to be there at 0900 the next morning. If I’m driving from Phoenix to Santa Fe and have to charge my car for 2-3 hours, that is a problem for me. The Chinese have figured it out (it seems) with the swap-out model. They can impose discipline of course and we cannot in our open free society. But it would be peachy if someone in the board room though about this obvious issue while the cars were still on the drawing board. Charging is getting faster all the time. Until they can get it down to (at least) 2X as long as it takes to fill up...I think it is going to be a hard sell for travelers. Commuters? Thats a different market.

Where is the link to this Chinese swap-out model?

 

[badger2]

The URL is too ridiculous to transcribe. It can be retrieved:
5 May 2022 "Beijing's Battery Swapping Bet Could Isolate China's Electric Car Industry"
'....This poses the question of whether foreign car makers active in China will be able to simply ignore battery swapping.'

They can ignore it, though both them and the Chinese will be made to look like the horses' rear-end as battery swapping evolves in the US. And it will. Be sure of it.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Lack of charging stations is just one obstacle to EV ownership.
There is also the high cost to purchase a new EV.
Limited driving range, especially in cold weather northern states.
Battery milage falls to around 50% when temp falls to the 30's and lower.
EV battery replacement when car gets older can be around $20,000+ which is probably more than the car is worth.
Repair and parts on an EV are very expensive because only dealerships with specially trained EV mechanics will work on them. Regular auto mechanic shops won't touch an EV
The depreciation on a used EV is in the toilet. People don't want to buy an older EV because the value of the car will be zero if the battery or some of the very expensive electrical/electronic parts fail.

When a country's government stops EV subsidies, sales plummet -

German EV Sales Crash And Burn After Subsidies Dry Up

Sales of new cars fell in Germany, dragged down by plummeting demand for EVs after taxpayer subsidies ran out.

climatechangedispatch.com

 

[Grumblenuts]

Where is the link to this Chinese swap-out model?

The URL is too ridiculous to transcribe. It can be retrieved:

From three minutes to 30 seconds, Nio-led battery swap mode sparks race

Since September this year, Chinese car companies have accelerated the construction of battery swap stations, while battery swap speeds are also competing to shorten.

cnevpost.com

 

[Grumblenuts]

Speaking of anachronistic, ^^^that was yesterday's news -- actually, 3 years and 2 months old. From literally yesterday:

Two EV models powered by sodium-ion batteries roll off line in China

The two models feature sodium-ion batteries from Farasis Energy and Hina Battery, marking a step closer to large-scale use of the new, lower-cost batteries.

cnevpost.com

If Musk were really smart, this is where he'd have begun.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Sodium-ion Batteries are on the Horizon: How do They Measure up to Lithium-ion?

A comparative look at sodium-ion and lithium-ion (Li-ion) batteries highlights the feasibility of using sodium-ion batteries in industrial machinery.

www.machinedesign.com

 

[Captain Caveman]

Tesla car insurance costs more than other cars, partly due to expensive repairs. See rates and model breakdown

Tesla car insurance rates vary by model. Find out how much it costs and why coverage is more expensive.

www.businessinsider.com

As more of these EV toys hit the road, I wonder when threads over the coming months/years start appearing complaining of eye watering EV insurance policies. Then governments will step in to back the policies to keep the insurance cost down!!

‘The quotes were £5,000 or more’: electric vehicle owners face soaring insurance costs

Drivers who ditched petrol and diesel to help save the planet face huge price rises in premiums

www.theguardian.com

The Tesla Y in the article is not in a good light

 

[Captain Caveman]

Ford, GM, Rivian, Volvo, Polestar and Mercedes-Benz have announced plans to adopt Tesla’s North American Charging Standard, making it possible for their products to access Tesla’s vast and growing network of Supercharger stations.

The generalization of NACS will be a huge win for consumers who have both wanted and feared buying their first electric car due to the inadequacy of existing CCS-based infrastructure. NACS will soon bring a generation of short-winded, slow-charging EVs within the radius of a Supercharger station somewhere, anywhere. Suddenly, buying an EV other than a Tesla doesn’t seem so crazy. If the price is right. And by right, I mean much, much cheaper.

The timing depends. Ford said its products would gain access to 12,000 Superchargers in North America by early 2024. For these non-NACS vehicles, Tesla has developed what it calls the Magic Dock adapter, allowing Superchargers to grok CCS-equipped vehicles. This plastic coupler is secured to the charger, ready when needed.

Thank Tesla: The Biggest Obstacle to EV Ownership Will Soon Be History

As Ford, GM, Volvo, Mercedes-Benz and other automakers migrate to Tesla’s vast and growing Supercharger network, the knock-on effects are a big win for all EV buyers, says Dan Neil.

www.wsj.com

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According to another report, there are about 150,000+ EV chargers in the US and by 2030, we may need at least a million. So, this is a good start since EV owners no longer will be dependent on their manufacturer's EV stations and can go anywhere.

Ford loses $36,000 every time it sells an EV, it's sales have plummeted, no one wants them -




I don't think Ford having access to Tesla chargers will do them, and all other EV manufacturers, any use whatsoever. They're just too expensive.