Zone1 The Best way to get rid of a Bad Law, is to Enforce it!

[Care4all]

A‌braham Lincoln is often paraphrased as saying, “The best way ‌to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly.” While that paraphrase summarizes the gist of what Lincoln was saying, the full text of his remark is worth repeating.

In 1838, early in his career, Abraham Lincoln delivered an address to the Young Men’s Lyceum of Springfield, Illinois. It was entitled “The Perpetuation of Our Political Institutions.” In it, he said:

Let every American, every lover of liberty, every well-wisher to his posterity, swear by the blood of the Revolution, never to violate in the least particular, the laws of the country; and never to tolerate their violation by others. As the patriots of seventy-six did to the support of the Declaration of Independence, so to the support of the Constitution and Laws, let every American pledge his life, his property, and his sacred honor;—let every man remember that to violate the law, is to trample on the blood of his father, and to tear the character of his own, and his children’s liberty. Let reverence for the laws, be breathed by every American mother, to the lisping babe, that prattles on her lap—let it be taught in schools, in seminaries, and in colleges; let it be written in Primers, spelling books, and in Almanacs;—let it be preached from the pulpit, proclaimed in legislative halls, and enforced in courts of justice.

He went on to say:

When I so pressingly urge a strict observance of all the laws, let me not be understood as saying there are no bad laws.… But I do mean to say, that, although bad laws, if they exist, should be repealed as soon as possible, still while they continue in force, for the sake of example, they should be religiously observed.

When Lincoln refers to religiously observing the law “for the sake of example,” he is referring also to the example of the American Republic itself as an example to the world. Without enforcement of the law, there cannot be accountability under law, and political accountability is essential to a functioning democracy.

The President’s Duty to Faithfully Execute the Law

The Honorable Bob GoodlatteA‌braham Lincoln is often paraphrased as saying, “The best way ‌to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly.” While that paraphrase summarizes the gist of what Lincoln was saying, the full text of his remark is worth repeating. In 1838, early in his career...

www.heritage.org

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I was wondering how y'all felt about President Lincoln's position on Law and Order.

I was raised by my parents, unfair or not, to follow the law, no matter what....for reasons much like what Lincoln had stated above....follow the law, if a bad law, you legally change it.

It seems that those in the right wing, no longer believe as Lincoln stated, and want to just tear our country and institutions apart outside of the law? Is this accurate? Or is it somewhere inbetween???

 

[hadit]

A‌braham Lincoln is often paraphrased as saying, “The best way ‌to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly.” While that paraphrase summarizes the gist of what Lincoln was saying, the full text of his remark is worth repeating.

In 1838, early in his career, Abraham Lincoln delivered an address to the Young Men’s Lyceum of Springfield, Illinois. It was entitled “The Perpetuation of Our Political Institutions.” In it, he said:


He went on to say:


When Lincoln refers to religiously observing the law “for the sake of example,” he is referring also to the example of the American Republic itself as an example to the world. Without enforcement of the law, there cannot be accountability under law, and political accountability is essential to a functioning democracy.

The President’s Duty to Faithfully Execute the Law

The Honorable Bob GoodlatteA‌braham Lincoln is often paraphrased as saying, “The best way ‌to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly.” While that paraphrase summarizes the gist of what Lincoln was saying, the full text of his remark is worth repeating. In 1838, early in his career...

www.heritage.org

------------_-----------


I was wondering how y'all felt about President Lincoln's position on Law and Order.

I was raised by my parents, unfair or not, to follow the law, no matter what....for reasons much like what Lincoln had stated above....follow the law, if a bad law, you legally change it.

It seems that those in the right wing, no longer believe as Lincoln stated, and want to just tear our country and institutions apart outside of the law? Is this accurate? Or is it somewhere inbetween???

As long as you myopically pretend the problem is only on the right wing, you will get absolutely nowhere in a discussion or in finding a solution.

 

[1srelluc]

 

[pknopp]

How many were taught to strictly follow the law by their parents would also travel with them doing 64 mph in a 60 mph zone?

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

A‌braham Lincoln is often paraphrased as saying, “The best way ‌to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly.” While that paraphrase summarizes the gist of what Lincoln was saying, the full text of his remark is worth repeating.

In 1838, early in his career, Abraham Lincoln delivered an address to the Young Men’s Lyceum of Springfield, Illinois. It was entitled “The Perpetuation of Our Political Institutions.” In it, he said:


He went on to say:


When Lincoln refers to religiously observing the law “for the sake of example,” he is referring also to the example of the American Republic itself as an example to the world. Without enforcement of the law, there cannot be accountability under law, and political accountability is essential to a functioning democracy.

The President’s Duty to Faithfully Execute the Law

The Honorable Bob GoodlatteA‌braham Lincoln is often paraphrased as saying, “The best way ‌to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly.” While that paraphrase summarizes the gist of what Lincoln was saying, the full text of his remark is worth repeating. In 1838, early in his career...

www.heritage.org

------------_-----------


I was wondering how y'all felt about President Lincoln's position on Law and Order.

I was raised by my parents, unfair or not, to follow the law, no matter what....for reasons much like what Lincoln had stated above....follow the law, if a bad law, you legally change it.

It seems that those in the right wing, no longer believe as Lincoln stated, and want to just tear our country and institutions apart outside of the law? Is this accurate? Or is it somewhere inbetween???

The Conservative Right are not great lover's of Lincoln. Most stopped thinking as soon as they saw his name.

However I agree...starting with all immigration laws. As long as they are laws, they should be strictly enforced.
Do you feel the same about the new anti-abortion laws, should they be strictly enforced until repealed?

One must ask..what if your bad laws...are NOT repealed..what of strict enforcement then?

 

[Care4all]

As long as you myopically pretend the problem is only on the right wing, you will get absolutely nowhere in a discussion or in finding a solution.

Don't be too sensitive. I didn't say ONLY those on the right seem to be falling away from law and order....

But I would like to discuss it with the right wing...because the rightwing has been more, in your face, about it, on the whole, since Trump's arrival, imho.

 

[occupied]

A‌braham Lincoln is often paraphrased as saying, “The best way ‌to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly.” While that paraphrase summarizes the gist of what Lincoln was saying, the full text of his remark is worth repeating.

In 1838, early in his career, Abraham Lincoln delivered an address to the Young Men’s Lyceum of Springfield, Illinois. It was entitled “The Perpetuation of Our Political Institutions.” In it, he said:


He went on to say:


When Lincoln refers to religiously observing the law “for the sake of example,” he is referring also to the example of the American Republic itself as an example to the world. Without enforcement of the law, there cannot be accountability under law, and political accountability is essential to a functioning democracy.

The President’s Duty to Faithfully Execute the Law

The Honorable Bob GoodlatteA‌braham Lincoln is often paraphrased as saying, “The best way ‌to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly.” While that paraphrase summarizes the gist of what Lincoln was saying, the full text of his remark is worth repeating. In 1838, early in his career...

www.heritage.org

------------_-----------


I was wondering how y'all felt about President Lincoln's position on Law and Order.

I was raised by my parents, unfair or not, to follow the law, no matter what....for reasons much like what Lincoln had stated above....follow the law, if a bad law, you legally change it.

It seems that those in the right wing, no longer believe as Lincoln stated, and want to just tear our country and institutions apart outside of the law? Is this accurate? Or is it somewhere inbetween???

I feel more like a free people has a duty to ignore unjust laws.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Don't be too sensitive. I didn't say ONLY those on the right seem to be falling away from law and order....

But I would like to discuss it with the right wing...because the rightwing has been more, in your face, about it, on the whole, since Trump's arrival, imho.

Well, in fairness, the Left has shown that they are all about ignoring the law when it suits their purposes. Immigration and Abortion Rights do come to mind.
Law and order do seem to take a back-seat to outrage, whether it be BLM protests that spin off into riots..or Jan. 6 protests..that morphed into riots/insurrection.

Now I will clearly state that I think it is one's ethical duty to ignore certain bad laws--just as it is also their ethical duty to turn themselves in and bow to whatever sanction is imposed.

 

[Care4all]

How many were taught to strictly follow the law by their parents would also travel with them doing 64 mph in a 60 mph zone?

Not me, I grew up on Military bases when young, and my older sis and I were taught to follow every driving law! Like before it was mandated for the public, my sister and I had to Buckle up, when in the car, driving on base....because, that was the Law on base. And going through the gate base, leaving the house and many stopping moments in between, mom and dad made certain us girls, followed the law! We were told that daddy could get in trouble.... My dad followed every word of the law, including speed limits, when he served, and every Commander n Chief, no matter party, for the 22 years he served.... I didn't even know what political party my dad was registered as, until he retired from the Air Force!

That was just the way it was back then....

 

[Care4all]

I feel more like a free people has a duty to ignore unjust laws.

Well, in fairness, the Left has shown that they are all about ignoring the law when it suits their purposes. Immigration and Abortion Rights do come to mind.
Law and order do seem to take a back-seat to outrage, whether it be BLM protests that spin off into riots..or Jan. 6 protests..that morphed into riots/insurrection.

Now I will clearly state that I think it is one's ethical duty to ignore certain bad laws--just as it is also their ethical duty to turn themselves in and bow to whatever sanction is imposed.

So you both, do not agree with Lincoln and his position, which is the thread title?

How does your way, of ethically ignoring bad laws, instead of legally changing them, advance our country, without the slippery slope of lawlessness abound? Wouldn't it just give leeway for anyone... at any time... to break any law, they do not agree with...?

 

[Papageorgio]

A‌braham Lincoln is often paraphrased as saying, “The best way ‌to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly.” While that paraphrase summarizes the gist of what Lincoln was saying, the full text of his remark is worth repeating.

In 1838, early in his career, Abraham Lincoln delivered an address to the Young Men’s Lyceum of Springfield, Illinois. It was entitled “The Perpetuation of Our Political Institutions.” In it, he said:


He went on to say:


When Lincoln refers to religiously observing the law “for the sake of example,” he is referring also to the example of the American Republic itself as an example to the world. Without enforcement of the law, there cannot be accountability under law, and political accountability is essential to a functioning democracy.

The President’s Duty to Faithfully Execute the Law

The Honorable Bob GoodlatteA‌braham Lincoln is often paraphrased as saying, “The best way ‌to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly.” While that paraphrase summarizes the gist of what Lincoln was saying, the full text of his remark is worth repeating. In 1838, early in his career...

www.heritage.org

------------_-----------


I was wondering how y'all felt about President Lincoln's position on Law and Order.

I was raised by my parents, unfair or not, to follow the law, no matter what....for reasons much like what Lincoln had stated above....follow the law, if a bad law, you legally change it.

It seems that those in the right wing, no longer believe as Lincoln stated, and want to just tear our country and institutions apart outside of the law? Is this accurate? Or is it somewhere inbetween???

You had a good post going then you turned yourself into a partisan nutter.

I was raised much like your were, if you don’t like a bad law, change it legally.

I see the left and the right seem to be the same, they both go outside the law, it’s pretty sad.

 

[petro]

Back in Lincoln's day, law breakers were dealt with swiftly and harshly to the point of the death penalty or years in a brutal prison setting.
Property theft resulted in the death of thieves.
You steal a persons means of transportation, you steal their income, their freedom of movement, their security and their faith in humanity.


Somewhere in the last century the rights of victims became second to the rights of those refusing to follow the rules.

 

[petro]

So you both, do not agree with Lincoln and his position, which is the thread title?

How does your way, of ethically ignoring bad laws, instead of legally changing them, advance our country, without the slippery slope of lawlessness abound? Wouldn't it just give leeway for anyone... at any time... to break any law, they do not agree with...?

Start with Prohibition.
A stupid law that was rabidly enforced, that led to it's eventual repeal.
However it raised violence against law enforcement to a much higher level and resulted in a large segment of the public mistrustful of the Federal government which continues to this day thanks to the failed Drug War.
Slippery slope?
We are already at the bottom of the hill.

 

[Papageorgio]

I feel more like a free people has a duty to ignore unjust laws.

They have a right to protest peacefully and if they ignore the law then need to be willing to accept the punishmen.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

So you both, do not agree with Lincoln and his position, which is the thread title?

How does your way, of ethically ignoring bad laws, instead of legally changing them, advance our country, without the slippery slope of lawlessness abound? Wouldn't it just give leeway for anyone... at any time... to break any law, they do not agree with...?

Apparently you missed my first post?

The Conservative Right are not great lover's of Lincoln. Most stopped thinking as soon as they saw his name.

However I agree...starting with all immigration laws. As long as they are laws, they should be strictly enforced.
Do you feel the same about the new anti-abortion laws, should they be strictly enforced until repealed?

One must ask..what if your bad laws...are NOT repealed..what of strict enforcement then?

..Or perhaps you are conflating the two positions.
1) I do, as I said, believe in strict enforcement of the law...bad laws included. Thus a DR. that provides an abortion in Texas goes to jail, right? Anyone who employs an illegal..goes to jail, right?

2) I also believe, as a matter of personal ethic, that one should, sometimes, ignore or actively resist some laws so bad that they cry out for remediation. I also believe that if you do so, you should turn yourself in and face the music.

Those statements are not in opposition--enforcement is the duty of the Govt. that passed the law..good or bad.
Our consciences our own affair---and our personal ethics are what should guide our actions. Sometimes that's in opposition to the law.

I asked a few questions in those posts..have any thoughts you'd like to share?

 

[petro]

How many were taught to strictly follow the law by their parents would also travel with them doing 64 mph in a 60 mph zone?

Pffft.
Nowadays Mom is driving 80 mph weaving through traffic in a minivan taking the kids to soccer while talking on the phone completely oblivious of other drivers and lacking general courtesy.

 

[Care4all]

You had a good post going then you turned yourself into a partisan nutter.

I was raised much like your were, if you don’t like a bad law, change it legally.

I see the left and the right seem to be the same, they both go outside the law, it’s pretty sad.

I didn't mean to turn it in to partisan....as Eagle eye stated the dems do it as well.

 

[occupied]

So you both, do not agree with Lincoln and his position, which is the thread title?

How does your way, of ethically ignoring bad laws, instead of legally changing them, advance our country, without the slippery slope of lawlessness abound? Wouldn't it just give leeway for anyone... at any time... to break any law, they do not agree with...?

Most of the bad laws have an exploitative aspect where someone is making money or political capital. Laws like that will never go away as long as politicians can be bought.

 

[Care4all]

Apparently you missed my first post?


..Or perhaps you are conflating the two positions.
1) I do, as I said, believe in strict enforcement of the law...bad laws included. Thus a DR. that provides an abortion in Texas goes to jail, right? Anyone who employs an illegal..goes to jail, right?

2) I also believe, as a matter of personal ethic, that one should, sometimes, ignore or actively resist some laws so bad that they cry out for remediation. I also believe that if you do so, you should turn yourself in and face the music.

Those statements are not in opposition--enforcement is the duty of the Govt. that passed the law..good or bad.
Our consciences our own affair---and our personal ethics are what should guide our actions. Sometimes that's in opposition to the law.

I asked a few questions in those posts..have any thoughts you'd like to share?

Correct, I was scrolling up to read the thread, after a post response of mine, and read your latter post and not your first one!!!

And yes, in a state prohibiting a doctor from performing an abortion for a patient, should follow the law.... Until the law can be changed.

I have no issue with women going to another state during this period....if they can...

However, I can see how a doctor with a patient with a baby inside that has a medical death sentence, and the mother's health is at risk, should ethically break the law at that moment of crisis, imho.

The border is a tough one.... Immigration laws from congress, (and treaties signed by us on refugee acceptance) are so loosey goosey, it tends to be run by legal executive orders of each of our presidents....when their EOs are unconstitutional, they are brought to court, and shut down if the court rules them unconstitutional.

Immigration laws need to be tightened up, with less executive leeway, by congress imho....via enforceable, realistic, laws....with the money to enforce, behind them.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Where is the office of room to destroy