CDZ The Economic System of the Future; My Best Guess on a Coming Synthesis of Capitalism and Socialism

[JimBowie1958]

Man only has one master, nature. Any other master is only a product of our efforts to conquer nature. Reorganize the way we produce what we need for the reproduction of life and we will fundamentally transform society.

My Master is Jesus Christ, the Author of Nature.

What say you?

Anyone who believes 'constructivist rationalism' will solve social problems is deranged, and has no real idea of the limits of rationalism. No one is going to be better off under such delusional beliefs in 'Logic'. What they follow now is circular reasoning and mindless self-indulgence.

Agreed, but I think the underlying problem is a loss of love for virtue.


The modern secular life is the antithesis of Antisthenes.

 

[Tehon]

Man only has one master, nature. Any other master is only a product of our efforts to conquer nature. Reorganize the way we produce what we need for the reproduction of life and we will fundamentally transform society.

My Master is Jesus Christ, the Author of Nature.

What say you?

I don't believe that.

So how do we get this idea of 'laws of Nature' if there is no Law Giver?

But since you do, did Jesus Christ authorize you to take any part of his creation as your own? To profit off of it? To exclude others from partaking in it?

Oh, yes He has, through the duly divinely approved civil authorities and the laws of the land that He has allowed to come into power.

Now He has proscribed some activities that are legal, like divorce, prostitution, bringing lawsuits on fellow Christians, etc, but enjoying the gifts of property are not so proscribed.

I simply do not find my purpose and joy in them like I do my family, my faith and what virtues I may attain.

Donald Trump was sent from god!

 

[JimBowie1958]

Donald Trump was sent from god!

Yes, and so were Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Churchill.

So where is the punch line or do you just find the concept of Providence to be just so hillarious?

It is also noted that you failed to answer my question about a Law giver?

Too pooped to proffer?

 

[Tehon]

Donald Trump was sent from god!

Yes, and so were Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Churchill.

So where is the punch line or do you just find the concept of Providence to be just so hillarious?

It is also noted that you failed to answer my question about a Law giver?

Too pooped to proffer?

Yes, I find it funny as hell that anyone believes god is guiding this shit show.

I don't have an answer to your question. It's pretty much irrelevant to the discussion anyway.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Yes, I find it funny as hell that anyone believes god is guiding this shit show.

Why? What makes this a 'shit show'? Your favorite TV show got canceled?

Lol, it is absurd for someone from one of the most prosperous, safe and empowered generations Mankind has ever seen to go crying patting himself on the back, 'Poor me, I live in a shit show.'

roflmao

I don't have an answer to your question. It's pretty much irrelevant to the discussion anyway.

No, it is foundational to the discussion.

I am in serious doubt of your ability to grasp basic arguments and lines of reason.

Have a nice day, Twinkles.

 

[Tehon]

Yes, I find it funny as hell that anyone believes god is guiding this shit show.

Why? What makes this a 'shit show'? Your favorite TV show got canceled?

Lol, it is absurd for someone from one of the most prosperous, safe and empowered generations Mankind has ever seen to go crying patting himself on the back, 'Poor me, I live in a shit show.'

roflmao

I don't have an answer to your question. It's pretty much irrelevant to the discussion anyway.

No, it is foundational to the discussion.

I am in serious doubt of your ability to grasp basic arguments and lines of reason.

Have a nice day, Twinkles.

How is the genesis of the laws of nature relevant to a discussion about our economic future?

Let's hear your reasoning.

 

[deanrd]

Man only has one master, nature. Any other master is only a product of our efforts to conquer nature. Reorganize the way we produce what we need for the reproduction of life and we will fundamentally transform society.

My Master is Jesus Christ, the Author of Nature.

What say you?

Sad that Jesus promoted slavery.

 

[deanrd]

Fist things first: Raise the general morality and principles level of your country's population first.

I aghree, but that is not the responsibility of the government.

That is for the churches to handle.

It has to be implemented by government. Churches can't set up Federal Courts, make laws, etc. Congress has to do it.

Church leadership raises moral being of population => people elect moral leadership => moral congress passes moral laws and sees they are enforced.

Like the Catholic Church, like extremist right wing religious, which is pretty much like extreme right wing Muslims. I don’t see a difference

 

[deanrd]

Principles of Pragmatic Community Capitalism (Democratic Socialism light)

There are problems with both unfettered and unregulated capitalism as well as government heavy Socialism. This is my best effort at applying a moderate 'Nordic Light' Socialism on the US economic and political system.

This is more explanatory in nature for my own political opinion than it is a serious ideology; a set of principles bounded only by law and pragmatic concerns for the community as a whole.

1. We must respect private property. If any property is to be seized by the government for the use of the community, it must be compensated based at a rate equivalent to its value prior to the determination it is necessary.

2. Capitalism should not be conducted for purely profit goals. Businesses use public resources provided by tax payers and so owe a debt to the community as a whole to conduct themselves respectfully and with a goal of respecting the dignity and welfare of the community as well as the profit motive of that business. At the same time it must be recognized that capitalism will never disappear as long as people can barter for commodities in an organized fashion intrinsic to a democratic society.

3. Our nation is a community of communities. We must respect each other and learn to tolerate each other no matter our race, religion or ethnicity. As a local community we must often times subject some of our community goals or interests in the service of the broader interests of the whole national community. This must be done on equal terms without respect to any other consideration than an equal legal standing before the law.

4. We cannot allow our poorest and most unfortunate to languish in misery. Our welfare system should prevent suffering if one is willing to work and to guarantee a willingness to work, all welfare recipients must perform 20 hours of community service each week. No one should lose their home or have their children go without decent living standards due to conditions beyond their control.

5. All drugs should be made legal to use, but distribution and sale of controlled substances without proper licensing and taxes would be the only legal standard. Addicts would receive counseling in minimal Spartan living conditions to recover and return to society as soon as possible. All drug related crimes, other than failure to pay taxes, would be amnestied.

6. Medical care is a human right, and the competitive insurance market is the most efficient means to provide such coverage. In order to provide a 'floor' for insurance markets, Medicare would be offered to anyone willing to pay for it on a sliding poverty scale of premium cost. The poorest would receive it for free while anyone can buy it paying more for premiums based on their annual family income. There would be no restrictions by state or territory, and all states can set minimal conditions for sale of insurance in their state. So, for example, anyone in Maryland can buy a medical coverage that meets the states minimums, and the premium would be higher in that state.

7. The principle of subsidiarity would be the guide for all policies. Handle what can be handled at the county or municipal level first, then at the state level and then at the Federal level as a last resort.

8. A robotics tax would be implemented with labor costs of the previous year as a base line from the time the tax is implemented. This tax would replace the taxes lost due to the human employment no longer being a tax source. The government as the community controlled institution working on behalf of the greater community, cannot be allowed to lose funding due to technological change.

9. For-profit corporations would not be considered persons for the purpose of free speech and political representation. They may not participate in political process directly or indirectly. All such participation would be subject to RICO laws and compel confiscation of all assets and property.

10. All public officials or candidates for public office must have their tax returns made available to the public for scrutiny going back ten years prior to their run for office.

11. Elections would be free of advertising other than a specially designated series of cable channels and URLs for podcasting for each party or ideology provided for free to the public for informational purposes.

12. Every 50 years a states Constitutional Amendment convention will be called and amendments considered for review and approval by the states, being accepted only when passed by two thirds of all states. The first such convention would be summoned on the next year of a public census, i.e a year ending in the number '0'.

13. Employees would be represented by unions, and there would be no monopolistic monolithic union. Each union would be in competition with other unions for providing the best service to the workers of a company. Dues would be entirely voluntary, and the unions can provide representative services for its members under contract with that business. Unions would not be allowed to help or assist any candidate in any election, but only advocate their interests in broad terms related to a specific topic.

14. Publicly owned educational institutions should have free tuition and open to anyone who can maintain passing grade averages. A voucher system for all public schools would be the means by which this is paid for. At the college level, these funds would be available for room and board and books.

15. The long term goal of public economic policy domestically is to have most services paid for by vouchers and the service provided by strong AI algorithm businesses, much like say Amazon or Ebay today, by which people can find jobs, government service providers and social networking. These will be block chain programs that will not be subject to censorship or control at the government level, but only filtered and regulated by government oversight.

16. These principles are not absolutes. Each of them can be adapted to the particular circumstances that are encountered and applied in.

Actual thinking, cool.

When 90% of our goods and services, for example, are produced by robotics/computers how would necessary goods and services be provides to the masses of unemployed?

So many goods and services handled by robotics and AI.
So who builds the robots?
Where do the technicians come from?
Uneducated people aren’t going to build robots.
Which is why it’s so unbelievable that the majority of Republicans think college is bad for America.

 

[JimBowie1958]

How is the genesis of the laws of nature relevant to a discussion about our economic future?

Let's hear your reasoning.

Well, let me try to explain it to you.

The axioms on which Natural Law are based, are from Christian Revelation via the Christ that God has a rational mind and His universe, therefore, reflects that same order.

This is why the Atomist school of thought, despite its impressive accomplishments in theory, never caught on with the general population in the ancient world.

The Mystic would reply to Atomist's theory, "Well those are nice assumptions you have made, but what if the universe is merely arbitrary and rests on the minute to minute fickleness of the gods?" To which the Atomist would reply, "Well, my axioms are better than yours." To which I would have to agree, but apart from divine revelation, the axioms of the Atomist school are no more valid than the Mystic's axioms, or anyone else on the basis of reason alone.

Jesus, via His teachings to St Paul and the other Apostles ended that debate for Christians, and so when we had the Scholastic movement and St Thomas Aquinas revive the wisdom of the ancients, which included the Atomists, the axiom of an orderly universe finally was the public presumption/axiom that everyone in Europe proceeded by.

Without tying the axioms of Natural Philosophy to their roots grounded in theological revelation, Science is merely a set of assumptions we prefer over others.

Hence knowing Who the Law Giver is is paramount in proceeding from theological revelation to Natural Science axioms.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Principles of Pragmatic Community Capitalism (Democratic Socialism light)

There are problems with both unfettered and unregulated capitalism as well as government heavy Socialism. This is my best effort at applying a moderate 'Nordic Light' Socialism on the US economic and political system.

This is more explanatory in nature for my own political opinion than it is a serious ideology; a set of principles bounded only by law and pragmatic concerns for the community as a whole.

1. We must respect private property. If any property is to be seized by the government for the use of the community, it must be compensated based at a rate equivalent to its value prior to the determination it is necessary.

2. Capitalism should not be conducted for purely profit goals. Businesses use public resources provided by tax payers and so owe a debt to the community as a whole to conduct themselves respectfully and with a goal of respecting the dignity and welfare of the community as well as the profit motive of that business. At the same time it must be recognized that capitalism will never disappear as long as people can barter for commodities in an organized fashion intrinsic to a democratic society.

3. Our nation is a community of communities. We must respect each other and learn to tolerate each other no matter our race, religion or ethnicity. As a local community we must often times subject some of our community goals or interests in the service of the broader interests of the whole national community. This must be done on equal terms without respect to any other consideration than an equal legal standing before the law.

4. We cannot allow our poorest and most unfortunate to languish in misery. Our welfare system should prevent suffering if one is willing to work and to guarantee a willingness to work, all welfare recipients must perform 20 hours of community service each week. No one should lose their home or have their children go without decent living standards due to conditions beyond their control.

5. All drugs should be made legal to use, but distribution and sale of controlled substances without proper licensing and taxes would be the only legal standard. Addicts would receive counseling in minimal Spartan living conditions to recover and return to society as soon as possible. All drug related crimes, other than failure to pay taxes, would be amnestied.

6. Medical care is a human right, and the competitive insurance market is the most efficient means to provide such coverage. In order to provide a 'floor' for insurance markets, Medicare would be offered to anyone willing to pay for it on a sliding poverty scale of premium cost. The poorest would receive it for free while anyone can buy it paying more for premiums based on their annual family income. There would be no restrictions by state or territory, and all states can set minimal conditions for sale of insurance in their state. So, for example, anyone in Maryland can buy a medical coverage that meets the states minimums, and the premium would be higher in that state.

7. The principle of subsidiarity would be the guide for all policies. Handle what can be handled at the county or municipal level first, then at the state level and then at the Federal level as a last resort.

8. A robotics tax would be implemented with labor costs of the previous year as a base line from the time the tax is implemented. This tax would replace the taxes lost due to the human employment no longer being a tax source. The government as the community controlled institution working on behalf of the greater community, cannot be allowed to lose funding due to technological change.

9. For-profit corporations would not be considered persons for the purpose of free speech and political representation. They may not participate in political process directly or indirectly. All such participation would be subject to RICO laws and compel confiscation of all assets and property.

10. All public officials or candidates for public office must have their tax returns made available to the public for scrutiny going back ten years prior to their run for office.

11. Elections would be free of advertising other than a specially designated series of cable channels and URLs for podcasting for each party or ideology provided for free to the public for informational purposes.

12. Every 50 years a states Constitutional Amendment convention will be called and amendments considered for review and approval by the states, being accepted only when passed by two thirds of all states. The first such convention would be summoned on the next year of a public census, i.e a year ending in the number '0'.

13. Employees would be represented by unions, and there would be no monopolistic monolithic union. Each union would be in competition with other unions for providing the best service to the workers of a company. Dues would be entirely voluntary, and the unions can provide representative services for its members under contract with that business. Unions would not be allowed to help or assist any candidate in any election, but only advocate their interests in broad terms related to a specific topic.

14. Publicly owned educational institutions should have free tuition and open to anyone who can maintain passing grade averages. A voucher system for all public schools would be the means by which this is paid for. At the college level, these funds would be available for room and board and books.

15. The long term goal of public economic policy domestically is to have most services paid for by vouchers and the service provided by strong AI algorithm businesses, much like say Amazon or Ebay today, by which people can find jobs, government service providers and social networking. These will be block chain programs that will not be subject to censorship or control at the government level, but only filtered and regulated by government oversight.

16. These principles are not absolutes. Each of them can be adapted to the particular circumstances that are encountered and applied in.

Actual thinking, cool.

When 90% of our goods and services, for example, are produced by robotics/computers how would necessary goods and services be provides to the masses of unemployed?

So many goods and services handled by robotics and AI.
So who builds the robots?
Where do the technicians come from?
Uneducated people aren’t going to build robots.
Which is why it’s so unbelievable that the majority of Republicans think college is bad for America.

Surely most of the jobs in the very near future will require high skills. That is only a part of the problem. The problem is that most jobs will evaporate. For example, most people used to be farmers. Not so any more. Accounting departments in large companies used to employ hundreds of people. Now it is a handful of people and a computer.

How are we going to maintain an economy when most of the people will have nothing to do? How can companies stay in business when most people have no money to buy what is produced?

We are already behind the curve in this new economy.

 

[Picaro]

Surely most of the jobs in the very near future will require high skills. That is only a part of the problem. The problem is that most jobs will evaporate. For example, most people used to be farmers. Not so any more. Accounting departments in large companies used to employ hundreds of people. Now it is a handful of people and a computer.

How are we going to maintain an economy when most of the people will have nothing to do? How can companies stay in business when most people have no money to buy what is produced?

We are already behind the curve in this new economy.

Actually the opposite is happening; most jobs are dumbed down part time service economy jobs. the demand for 'highly skilled' labor is plummeting at a higher rate than productivity is growing. but, according to the Social Darwininsts', all those people who now can't earn a living are going to go off to starve and die peacefully, leaving the idiot gamblers who guessed right on stock market casino guesses stuff alone to enjoy their unearned wealth forever after. Ain't gonna happen, no matter what some guy with an economics degree and a jog at Cato keeps telling you. Those private armies guarding those gated communities will sooner or later just kill their bosses and steal it all; they always do, and then fight over the spoils among themselves. they auctioned off the Roman Empire after killing the last western Emperor, and they will kill you dumbass 'free market' morons, too. See, when the poor and middle class have nothing left for the financial sector to plunder, the only plunder left is in the hands of other rich people, so they then start to raid and loot each other, and eventually they destroy everything.

Usually there is brake on how far it all gets, but these days, with Burb Brat Mania running amok, and Affluenza the primary social underpinning now, it will collapse and left to invaders to loot and extort, so don't worry; most of those idiots running around babbling about their 'Glocks n Stuff' will be hiding out in their basements whimpering, or stampeding over women, children, and the elderly to be the first in line to suck up to The New Order. there will be no 'civil war', least of all from the 'free market' social Darwinist peddlers here.