The Holocaust vs Native American genocide

[Pajarito7]

Comparing and contrasting the Jewish Holocaust of WWII and the systematic genocide of native Americans, which was worse?

Discuss

I disagree. Your argument stating that Native Americans were worse because of what was the outcome after genocide happened. But if you were really to compare to two of the process, reason, and cause of how they died then you would find that the genocide of Jews was far more worse.

First of all we can't blame all of the European Settlers for raping these Native American tribes. In fact, Europeans wanted to keep Native Americans alive so that they can work in their fields as slaves. Europeans enslaved these Indians because they thought they were savages without the knowledge of Christianity that "Christ might save them from condemnation to hell if they a least worked as slaves for the short period of their lives". Unfortunately, due to European dirtiness, new diseases, stronger weeds than North America (which destroyed Indian crops), unseen animals (pigs and rats which ate Indian crops) Native Americans died very rapidly. More than 90% of Indians died from diseases so the cause of how they died is clearly there. Yes there were tribes who did fight back but they had a huge disadvantage due to the lack of weapons and new technology European and Spanish settlers had brought. The genocide Conquistadors did happened because Hernan Cortez disobeyed an order to leave the Aztecs alone. He convinced a group of people from Cuba to take over the Indians but once done, left the place into a huge city of ruins.

Jews have been hated for centuries but if you were referring to the genocide of Jews in WW2 then I'd say the motive to annihilate Jews was far more evil than Native Americans. Adolf Hitler was an insane and evil but very intelligent man. Unlike Native Americans, Jews had a step by step system of how to be intentionally wiped off the map of Europe. First their liberties in Germany were stripped away. They couldn't eat at restaurants, they couldn't step on pavement, they were gradually being treated like dogs. Then they singled them out by identifying them by having to wear a patch of the star of David and put every Jew into a ghetto. In the Ghetto's Nazi's cut communication to everything outside the world (doctors, food, money, etc.) so they slowly died and had to survive for themselves. If it couldn't get worse Jews were then crammed into boxcar trains and sent to concentration camps were they stripped all their clothes, cut womans' hair for profit, and send to crematories and buildings where they were killed by gas. Nazi's then boiled the dead Jews to extract the body fat and make Jewish soap where it could be sold in Germany. That's just the smallest amount of how Jews were treated in WW2. Others were picked out to be gunned. If one tried to escaped 7 more had to pay the price for them. Some were experimented on by evil doctors to injected them with strange chemicals. If I'm correct I believe Hitler raised two whole generations with his ideology that there is only one supreme race and that all Jews should be hated even though Hitler himself was partially Jew.

If I were to choose which were worse. I say the genocide of Jews was far more worse.

 

[AkronGuy]

To me, it wasn't any different than what Indians have done.

To me it's very ironic that intentional biological warfare that resulted in genocide, led directly to another situation where biological warfare led to another genocide. It's just that the Europeans were thoroughly overpopulated that the loss of a half to two thirds of their population actually in the long run helped them.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Comparing and contrasting the Jewish Holocaust of WWII and the systematic genocide of native Americans, which was worse?

Discuss

THAT WAS DIFFERENT THOSE WERE NAZIS AND GOD CHOSE THE JEWS!!!!

 

[Modbert]

It isn't alright, but that was life at that time. And we can't judge people from an entirely different culture, era and social norms than we have.

Sure we can. It's called debating historical events.

 

[AllieBaba]

Why would anyone target them now that they've been effectively eradicated?

If one were to base their argument on outcome, then clearly the native American genocide was far worse. The Jews were liberated, given a home country and still wield considerable power on the world stage. Native Americans don't have to pay taxes on alcohol and tobacco.

Tell that to those of us who live in close proximity to reservations. Which, by the way, is land deeded to them and functions independent from the US government.

 

[AllieBaba]

PS..the English also attempted to eradicate the Scots, and Indians also sought to eradicate their enemies by wiping them out and taking their women. In tribes in South America and other isolated places in the world, it continues. Including Darfur, eastern Europe, the mid east, etc and so on.

 

[Samson]

Comparing and contrasting the Jewish Holocaust of WWII and the systematic genocide of native Americans, which was worse?

Discuss

This seems to be a no-brainer.

We gained nothing from the Jewish Holocaust of WWII, so it was clearly worse.

 

[strollingbones]

Comparing and contrasting the Jewish Holocaust of WWII and the systematic genocide of native Americans, which was worse?

Discuss

This seems to be a no-brainer.

We gained nothing from the Jewish Holocaust of WWII, so it was clearly worse.

more a case of we refused to gain anything...the nazi medical experiments were horrible...but they did gain knowing....which we being so civilized refused to use.

 

[AkronGuy]

It isn't alright, but that was life at that time. And we can't judge people from an entirely different culture, era and social norms than we have.

Sure we can. It's called debating historical events.

Not a serious historical debate, and often moralizing history that's in an era with a different set of norms stifles the debate in that you can't really see the issue as a whole.

In the end, you had two sides, both sides were generally made up of martial cultures and cultures that had no problem with brutally subjugating those that were weaker than they were or were in a disadvantegous position.

 

[AkronGuy]

PS..the English also attempted to eradicate the Scots, and Indians also sought to eradicate their enemies by wiping them out and taking their women. In tribes in South America and other isolated places in the world, it continues. Including Darfur, eastern Europe, the mid east, etc and so on.

They didn't try to eradicate the Scots as a whole, they wanted to eradicate Highland Scots. Which ended up biting them in their asses until this very day.

 

[Shogun]

I don't know the numbers. Probably comparable. Though the Indians did fight back. And to my knowledge, we no longer have millions of people still targeting them.

yea.. much like we don't have millions of people out skinning buffalo... think about it.

 

[Shogun]

I don't know the numbers. Probably comparable. Though the Indians did fight back. And to my knowledge, we no longer have millions of people still targeting them.

In my opinion, the Indians were no better than the Europeans. They enslaved, raped, and destroyed other tribes.

The only reason the Indians helped the English settlers was purely strategic and political, they offset the power of the dominant tribe of the region.

The oppressed tribes of Mexico supported the Conquistadores for the same reasons.

Indians weren't noble, they weren't holier than the Europeans, they did the exact samethings for the exact same reasons. Just that the Europeans were better at it, and they learned by having it done to them.

in other words, they deserved it. gotcha.

 

[Shogun]

Why would anyone target them now that they've been effectively eradicated?

If one were to base their argument on outcome, then clearly the native American genocide was far worse. The Jews were liberated, given a home country and still wield considerable power on the world stage. Native Americans don't have to pay taxes on alcohol and tobacco.

in case you missed it they are a sovereign nation within the us.....they have subsidized gambling and resorts and are making millions selling the white man firewater while the gamble their life savings away......

oh the irony......

anyone want to discuss the genocide that the various tribes perpetrated on each other....

They're far from soveirgn nations, they're just semi autonomous regions.

But of course noone'll talk about the genocides the Indians commited, and how they were in no way better than the Europeans. What was done was the standard for millenia.

maybe you should open your standup comedy routine with a Canaan joke before piling on about who died from the hands of Native Americans.

 

[Samson]

Comparing and contrasting the Jewish Holocaust of WWII and the systematic genocide of native Americans, which was worse?

Discuss

This seems to be a no-brainer.

We gained nothing from the Jewish Holocaust of WWII, so it was clearly worse.

more a case of we refused to gain anything...the nazi medical experiments were horrible...but they did gain knowing....which we being so civilized refused to use.

Frankly, I'd be astonished if the Nazis gained enough knowledge from performing medical experiments on jews to buy Rhode Island.

 

[Modbert]

Frankly, I'd be astonished if the Nazis gained enough knowledge from performing medical experiments on jews to buy Rhode Island.

Buy my state?

And see, you would think that, but:

Methadone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Methadone was developed in 1939 Germany by scientists working for I.G. Farbenkonzern at the Farbwerke Hoechst (it is synthesised from 1,1-diphenylbutane-2-sulfonic acid and dimethylamino-2-chloropropane) who were looking for an synthetic opioid that could be created with readily available precursors to solve Germany's opium shortage problem.[2]

Fact: Nazis used to give prisoners this stuff, then not give it to them so they could suffer through withdrawals.

 

[Shogun]

This seems to be a no-brainer.

We gained nothing from the Jewish Holocaust of WWII, so it was clearly worse.

more a case of we refused to gain anything...the nazi medical experiments were horrible...but they did gain knowing....which we being so civilized refused to use.

Frankly, I'd be astonished if the Nazis gained enough knowledge from performing medical experiments on jews to buy Rhode Island.

you might want to go ahead and sit down then. Almost everything we know about hypothermia is the direct result of nazi experimentation.

 

[GHook93]

Native Americans don't have to pay taxes on alcohol and tobacco.

And have the nicest casinos outside of Vegas!

 

[AkronGuy]

I don't know the numbers. Probably comparable. Though the Indians did fight back. And to my knowledge, we no longer have millions of people still targeting them.

In my opinion, the Indians were no better than the Europeans. They enslaved, raped, and destroyed other tribes.

The only reason the Indians helped the English settlers was purely strategic and political, they offset the power of the dominant tribe of the region.

The oppressed tribes of Mexico supported the Conquistadores for the same reasons.

Indians weren't noble, they weren't holier than the Europeans, they did the exact samethings for the exact same reasons. Just that the Europeans were better at it, and they learned by having it done to them.

in other words, they deserved it. gotcha.

I'm not saying they deserved it, but they weren't any better. People want to portray Indians and innocent victims, but they weren't. They were just as brutal and oppressive and genocidal as the Europeans.

The Indians didn't help the English settlers out of altruistic reasons, they had political and strategic reasons. The Indian tribes that helped them were tributary tribes and were oppressed and had to pay tribute in crops, meat, women and other items of value. They saw the English settlers as a counterbalance to their overlords, and by helping them they were making an investment in their economic and political future. It was a strategy that backfired, but it wasn't a bad one on the surface, they just didn't realize until it was too late that they had made a mistake.

 

[AkronGuy]

in case you missed it they are a sovereign nation within the us.....they have subsidized gambling and resorts and are making millions selling the white man firewater while the gamble their life savings away......

oh the irony......

anyone want to discuss the genocide that the various tribes perpetrated on each other....

They're far from soveirgn nations, they're just semi autonomous regions.

But of course noone'll talk about the genocides the Indians commited, and how they were in no way better than the Europeans. What was done was the standard for millenia.

maybe you should open your standup comedy routine with a Canaan joke before piling on about who died from the hands of Native Americans.

Yes because we all know there were no wars, no suffering, no oppression, no genocides or ethnic cleansing and life was perfect before the Europeans came to America !

But seriously, Indian societies were no less brutal than any other society on the planet at that time. Indians are human beings like anyone else and were no more noble than anyone else.

 

[Modbert]

you might want to go ahead and sit down then. Almost everything we know about hypothermia is the direct result of nazi experimentation.

That too.

Nazi human experimentation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia