The More I See of This Ukrainian Government

[nodoginnafight]

I'm not afraid to admit when I am wrong. And I am beginning to think I may have been wrong in speaking out so strongly against the Russians actions in the Ukraine.

The more I see of this Ukrainian Government, the less likely I am to write off Putin's claim that ethnic Russians in Ukraine are under attack. Yesterday I saw footage from the Ukrainian parliament that showed a legislator who spoke out supporting pro-Russian protesters getting his ass kicked by other legislators.

Is the United States backing the wrong horse? Again?

 

[JakeStarkey]

tinydancer has been saying the Ukrainian government is fascist and dangerous.

We have enough trouble with our fascists here without supporting them there.

 

[nodoginnafight]

tinydancer has been saying the Ukrainian government is fascist and dangerous.

We have enough trouble with our fascists here without supporting them there.

Tinydancer just may be right. And yeah, why do we need to support these people other than the fact that they are squared off against our traditional enemy. How well has that approach worked out for us in the past?

 

[JakeStarkey]

The neo-cons will have some sort of answer that guarantees the profits of the military-industrial complex.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I would say it's not so much a case of "backing the wrong horse" as backing any horse at all. The best policy for the U.S. is to simply stay out of the situation completely. They've already done enough damage.

 

[nodoginnafight]

I would say it's not so much a case of "backing the wrong horse" as backing any horse at all. The best policy for the U.S. is to simply stay out of the situation completely. They've already done enough damage.

I would have guessed you'd advocate that Kevin. (Not a jab - I admire your consistency)

But I believe that the United States could have gone a long way toward repairing relations with Russia and promoting peace in the region by urging the Ukrainians to respect their treaty with Russia regarding the Crimea base. And encouraging them to steer away from any ethnic violence and harsh rhetoric. THEN supported Russian in securing their base per the treaty with Ukraine.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I would say it's not so much a case of "backing the wrong horse" as backing any horse at all. The best policy for the U.S. is to simply stay out of the situation completely. They've already done enough damage.

I would have guessed you'd advocate that Kevin. (Not a jab - I admire your consistency)

But I believe that the United States could have gone a long way toward repairing relations with Russia and promoting peace in the region by urging the Ukrainians to respect their treaty with Russia regarding the Crimea base. And encouraging them to steer away from any ethnic violence and harsh rhetoric. THEN supported Russian in securing their base per the treaty with Ukraine.

The U.S. could have promoted peace in the region by not backing the rebels in the first place. The obvious intention of which was to poke Putin in the eye.

 

[tinydancer]

I don't understand the "why" of this. And I hope everyone understands that I am not being partisan on this. I have been strongly vocal in my criticism of my very own conservative government and my Prime Minister Harper.

Here's the bottom line on this new interim government. This was a coup. Svoboda who were part of the violent muscle during the coup were rewarded handsomely receiving key posts in the new administration.

I don't believe that they can be contained for long. They have received power and will not relinquish it easily.

The new President best watch his back because these are very violent individuals. They are unabashedly uber Uks and pro ethnically pure Ukrainian. They are virulently anti Russian, anti ethnic Russian, anti everything and everyone who does not fall into their camp.

Hell's bells their own history shows their true colors. And this is not Putin propaganda.

This is part of their party platform.

Criminal prosecution for “Ukrainophobia”

Only those born in Ukraine can become Ukrainian citizens, with the exceptions for those who have lived in Ukraine for more than 15 years, know the Ukrainian language, culture and Ukrainian Constitution

Cancelling taxes on Ukrainian language products — films, music and literature — and instead imposing taxes on non-Ukrainian language products. The proceeds obtained this way will be channeled into developing Ukrainian language products.


Nationalization of major enterprises, greater state control of the banking system and a ban on privatization of land.

Ban on the import of the food products that are also produced inside Ukraine and import only exotic food that is not domestically grown

Ban on adoptions by non-Ukrainians of Ukrainian children

Preferential treatment for Ukrainian students in the allocation of dormitory places, and a series of similar changes to existing legal provisions

Farmlands are to be state-owned and given to farmers in hereditary use

Dismissal of employees of state structures who had been active in the Soviet apparatus before 1991

Svoboda (political party) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[tinydancer]

Why did Crimea run to Russia? There was no invasion. That is an utter lie.

Here you find the simple answer in Svoboda's party platform.

Abolition of Crimean autonomy

And one of the first acts of this new interim government was to pass a bill that would repeal the guarantee that minorities could speak their own language. First on the hit list of course was Russian, but the new government was not only going to ban Russian, but Greek and others.

Now the EU was up in arms about it and the new interim President vetoed the bill. But for how long?

And considering that Crimea was over 60% ethnic Russian let's face it. It's a no freaking brainer they turned to Russia for protection from Kiev.

Svoboda (political party) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[tinydancer]

And btw I'm third generation Uk on my mother's side. I'm very worried about the future of the Ukraine.

And royally pissed off that our western leaders and governments are backing these goons.

 

[nodoginnafight]

I would say it's not so much a case of "backing the wrong horse" as backing any horse at all. The best policy for the U.S. is to simply stay out of the situation completely. They've already done enough damage.

I would have guessed you'd advocate that Kevin. (Not a jab - I admire your consistency)

But I believe that the United States could have gone a long way toward repairing relations with Russia and promoting peace in the region by urging the Ukrainians to respect their treaty with Russia regarding the Crimea base. And encouraging them to steer away from any ethnic violence and harsh rhetoric. THEN supported Russian in securing their base per the treaty with Ukraine.

The U.S. could have promoted peace in the region by not backing the rebels in the first place. The obvious intention of which was to poke Putin in the eye.

On this, I can agree 100%

 

[nodoginnafight]

Why did Crimea run to Russia? There was no invasion. That is an utter lie.

Here you find the simple answer in Svoboda's party platform.

Abolition of Crimean autonomy

And one of the first acts of this new interim government was to pass a bill that would repeal the guarantee that minorities could speak their own language. First on the hit list of course was Russian, but the new government was not only going to ban Russian, but Greek and others.

Now the EU was up in arms about it and the new interim President vetoed the bill. But for how long?

And considering that Crimea was over 60% ethnic Russian let's face it. It's a no freaking brainer they turned to Russia for protection from Kiev.

Svoboda (political party) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We disagree often tinydancer, but on this I am beginning to strongly agree with you.

 

[nodoginnafight]

And btw I'm third generation Uk on my mother's side. I'm very worried about the future of the Ukraine.

And royally pissed off that our western leaders and governments are backing these goons.

I'm not as closely tuned in on what is going on, but I am beginning to agree with you on this.

 

[B. Kidd]

I'm not afraid to admit when I am wrong. And I am beginning to think I may have been wrong in speaking out so strongly against the Russians actions in the Ukraine.

The more I see of this Ukrainian Government, the less likely I am to write off Putin's claim that ethnic Russians in Ukraine are under attack. Yesterday I saw footage from the Ukrainian parliament that showed a legislator who spoke out supporting pro-Russian protesters getting his ass kicked by other legislators.

Is the United States backing the wrong horse? Again?

Be careful, now. Those indoctrinated by western propaganda will accuse you of being a Putin polisher.

 

[nodoginnafight]

I'm not afraid to admit when I am wrong. And I am beginning to think I may have been wrong in speaking out so strongly against the Russians actions in the Ukraine.

The more I see of this Ukrainian Government, the less likely I am to write off Putin's claim that ethnic Russians in Ukraine are under attack. Yesterday I saw footage from the Ukrainian parliament that showed a legislator who spoke out supporting pro-Russian protesters getting his ass kicked by other legislators.

Is the United States backing the wrong horse? Again?

Be careful, now. Those indoctrinated by western propaganda will accuse you of being a Putin polisher.

I know and Up until a couple of weeks ago, I would have been one of them. Decrying the Russian invasion of Crimea.

But then I learned a lot more about the Russians treaty with Ukraine on the Crimea and how the Ukrainians were setting up to break that treaty. And then I saw how ethnic Russians are being treated and the hyper-nationalistic and "ethnic purity" moves the Ukrainians were taking. It reminded me a little too much of Hitler and I had to start re-thinking my position.

 

[bendog]

There's no "repairing" peace with Russia. There's not been any piece since Yeltsin was shown the door. It's just that until JR decided to invade Mesopetamia, we had enough conventional weapons of such quality that we deterred the Bear's appetite.

Remember the Reagan commercial.

As for the Ukraine, the Baltics have similar problems with civil rights and Russian speaking people. We'll see. But just because the soviets put a bunch of Russians in these places, doesn't require the folks with generational ties have to hack off some land to satisfy them. If the Russian speakers want to be good citizens, then the former Soviet satellites should let them. If not, they can move to Moscow.

Now how to force Putin to accept that ..... not so easy with the current military debacle.

 

[Pheonixops]

I'm not afraid to admit when I am wrong. And I am beginning to think I may have been wrong in speaking out so strongly against the Russians actions in the Ukraine.

The more I see of this Ukrainian Government, the less likely I am to write off Putin's claim that ethnic Russians in Ukraine are under attack. Yesterday I saw footage from the Ukrainian parliament that showed a legislator who spoke out supporting pro-Russian protesters getting his ass kicked by other legislators.

Is the United States backing the wrong horse? Again?

We shouldn't have been meddling in the region in the first place.

 

[bendog]

I'm not afraid to admit when I am wrong. And I am beginning to think I may have been wrong in speaking out so strongly against the Russians actions in the Ukraine.

The more I see of this Ukrainian Government, the less likely I am to write off Putin's claim that ethnic Russians in Ukraine are under attack. Yesterday I saw footage from the Ukrainian parliament that showed a legislator who spoke out supporting pro-Russian protesters getting his ass kicked by other legislators.

Is the United States backing the wrong horse? Again?

We shouldn't have been meddling in the region in the first place.

Well, the problem is we HAVE been meddling since Churchill gave that Iron Curtain Speech in 1946 or so

 

[Edgetho]

Lettuce not forget....

Russians freaking INVENTED propaganda.

Their entire existence for the past 97 years has depended on propaganda.

And like our very own communists here at home (dimocraps), they're very, very good at it.

I'd think real hard before I lent any credence to anything coming out of the Kremlin.

Anything.

 

[Edgetho]

I'm not afraid to admit when I am wrong. And I am beginning to think I may have been wrong in speaking out so strongly against the Russians actions in the Ukraine.

The more I see of this Ukrainian Government, the less likely I am to write off Putin's claim that ethnic Russians in Ukraine are under attack. Yesterday I saw footage from the Ukrainian parliament that showed a legislator who spoke out supporting pro-Russian protesters getting his ass kicked by other legislators.

Is the United States backing the wrong horse? Again?

We shouldn't have been meddling in the region in the first place.

Well, the problem is we HAVE been meddling since Churchill gave that Iron Curtain Speech in 1946 or so

Why should we care about anything but our own... Is that what you're saying?

You people (I use the term loosely) surely do say that a lot. An awful lot

WARNING! The link has pictures in it that might offend the sissies (dimocraps) among us.

Holodomor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Holodomor (Ukrainian: Голодомор, "Extermination by hunger" or "Hunger-extermination";[2] derived from 'Морити голодом', "Killing by Starvation" [3][4][5]) was a man-made famine in the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic in 1932 and 1933 that killed up to 7.5 million Ukrainians.[6] During the famine, which is also known as the "Terror-Famine in Ukraine" and "Famine-Genocide in Ukraine",[7][8][9] millions of citizens of Ukrainian SSR, the majority of whom were Ukrainians, died of starvation in a peacetime catastrophe unprecedented in the history of Ukraine.[10] Since 2006, the Holodomor has been recognized by the independent Ukraine and several other countries as a genocide of the Ukrainian people.[11]

Now the Ukrainians would rather be independent. Now, the Ukrainians would rather not give the Russians another chance to murder another 7 or 8 MILLION women and children

Yeah, I'm down with that.

OBTW.... Uber scum dimocrap (of course) Walter Duranty was New Yawk Slimes Bureau Chief in Moscow all during the Holodomor and knew all about it.

Never spoke a word about it in his columns. The Slimes knew about it, too. But all they ever printed were glowing reports of how egalitarian and how equal everybody was in the dimocrap heaven of the Soviet Union.

The one good thing about WWII is that we got the chance to kill 5 or 6 Million of those socialist scumbags (the Nazis).

What we missed out on in not annihilating the Soviets is the opportunity to rid the Earth of 20 or 30 Million carriers of the disease called socialism.

This is what happens when you don't follow through on your prescriptions. If you don't kill the disease, it just comes back. Often stronger and more resistant than before.

Now, they call themselves 'democrats'. They're not, of course. They're the scum of the Earth -- socialists.