The Muslim Colonists: Forgotten Facts about the Arab-Israeli Conflict

[Sally]

Now that we have seen the Eyeless in Gaza thread start this past Sunday, it looks like we can start making threads about Israel here. Moreover, this is a current article and not like the old spam that appears here over and over.

The Muslim Colonists: Forgotten Facts about the Arab-Israeli Conflict
by Ezequiel Doiny
August 15, 2014 at 4:45 am


The Yazidi in Iraq and the Christian Copts in Egypt are not "occupiers" or "settlers;" neither are the Jews in Israel. They are both victims of a common enemy that seems to want a Middle East free of non-Muslims.

The current Palestinian narrative is that all Muslims in Palestine are natives and all Jews are settlers. This narrative is false. There has been a small but almost continuous Jewish presence in Palestine since the destruction of Jerusalem by Rome two thousand years ago, and, as we will see, most of the Muslims living in Palestine when the state of Israel was declared in 1948 were Muslim colonists from other parts of the Ottoman Empire who had been resettled and living in Palestine for fewer than 60 years.

There are two important historical events usually overlooked in the Arab-Israeli conflict.

One is the use that Muslim rulers made of the jizya (a discriminatory tax imposed only on non-Muslims, to "protect" them from being killed or having their property destroyed) to reduce the quantity of Jews living in Palestine before the British Mandate was instituted in 1922. The second were the incentives by the Ottoman government to relocate displaced Muslim populations from other parts of the Ottoman Empire in Palestine.

Continue reading at:

The Muslim Colonists: Forgotten Facts about the Arab-Israeli Conflict

 

[Machaut]

While I understand that the article attempts to make a case for today's Jews living in Israel not being colonists, settlers, or occupiers, it goes about this in a very sloppy way. I don't think it's a very good article.

...most of the Muslims living in Palestine when the state of Israel was declared in 1948 were...living in Palestine for fewer than 60 years.

The same is true today; the majority of both Muslims and Jews in Israel have been living there for fewer than 60 years. How can I know this? Demographics.

Demographics of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Less than 20% of anyone in Israel--regardless of religion or ethnicity--has been there for 60 years or more because they aren't 60 years old yet. "Well we've been here longer" is a ridiculous argument for the author to try to make, unless he's also got proof that the entire Jewish population in Israel is immortal and the same individuals have been there for thousands of years.

...the use that Muslim rulers made of the jizya (a discriminatory tax imposed only on non-Muslims, to "protect" them from being killed or having their property destroyed)

The original purpose of the jizya was to take the place of the Muslim zakat. All Muslims are required to pay 2.5% of their net worth (not income, but net worth) towards charitable purposes. Because non-Muslims living in Muslim lands were not subject to paying zakat ("Let there be no compulsion in religion," per the Qur'an), a smaller nominal fee was collected from non-Muslims to benefit the poor. Jizya payments were not intended to serve as mob-style "protection money." Though this may have been the case under Ottoman rule, it is wrong to define the term based on the implementation of it by one particular entity.

The author further uses the word "discriminatory" here to imply that all discrimination is inherently wrong. The kind of discrimination the jizya institutes is more akin to the free and reduced lunch program at public schools in the U.S., wherein some people are asked to pay a fee substantially reduced from the amount paid by the general population.

Finally, the author quotes from an outside book:

"By the early 1800s the Arab population in Palestine was very little (just 246,000) it was in the late 1800s and early 1900s that most Muslim Colonists settled in Palestine because of incentives by the Ottoman Government to resettle displaced Muslim populations because of events such as the Austro-Hungarian Occupation of Bosnia-Herzegovina, the Crimean War and World War 1."

If 246,000 is "very little" then the Christian population of 22,000 was miniscule, and the Jewish population of 7,000 was non-existent. The author and the "historian" he quotes from, Bat Ye'or, seem to want to convey the image that the Jewish population in Israel has remained static in the millions throughout the past few centuries, and Arabs only recently began "invading" present-day Israel. Further, Ye'or seems to confuse Arabs with Muslims here; the 246,000 "Arab population" figure just so happens to be exactly equal to the figure for the Muslim population in 1800 that is given in another source linked to by this article's author.

Of course, while the Muslim population boom is explained in detail, no mention is given to the explosion in the Jewish population for the same time period of 1800-1890 and 1890-1914. While Muslims went from 246,000 in 1800 to 432,000 in 1890, Christians went from 22,000 to 57,000 (more than doubling their population), and Jews went from 7,000 to 43,000, increasing their numbers sixfold. Jews similarly had the highest percent increase in population from 1890-1914, more than doubling their numbers, while Muslims and Christians roughly tied at around 22% increase each, with the Muslim population having a slightly lower percent increase.

 

[Sally]

How about you use some other source than Wikipedia where anything can be put in? One thing you forgot to mention is that the British Officials in the area noticed how the Arabs were swarming in from their poor surrounding countries for the jobs the Jews had for them. Don't we see the same thing happening today in America and Europe? Do you actually think those poor Africans are going on a cruise when they try to get to Europe on unseaworthy craft or the poor Hispanics crossing the desert think it is Palm Springs they will be treking through?

I think you should try and find some articles written by Middle East Jews who will tell you just how nice your brethren were to them.

 

[Machaut]

How about you use some other source than Wikipedia where anything can be put in?

Alright, if you're going to be immature about it: http://www.cbs.gov.il/reader/shnaton/templ_shnaton_e.html?num_tab=st02_10x&CYear=2012

This, by the way, is one of the sources used by the Wikipedia article. They link to several such reports by the Israeli Central Bureau of Statistics. This particular report shows that the number of people living in Israel ages 60+, of any group, are far outnumbered by those ages 59 and under. This is normal, as any country hopes to have at least some degree of a pyramidal distribution in ages, with more young than old. Some countries, such as the US, China, and Japan, are becoming more top-heavy, and worry about the state of their "graying population."

One thing you forgot to mention is that the British Officials in the area noticed how the Arabs were swarming in from their poor surrounding countries for the jobs the Jews had for them.

You're right! I did "forget" to mention that, as it wasn't in your article and doesn't seem to support any of the points the article's author attempted to make. Your statement that Arabs came to Israel "for the jobs the Jews had for them" indicates a belief that these Arabs were welcomed there, and that the accompanying massive growth in the Arab population in Israel is entirely justified and legitimate. Is that the message you intended to convey, or have I misunderstood? Your wording suggests that you want those Arabs there, as did the Jews who employed the initial immigrants.

Don't we see the same thing happening today in America and Europe?

Only slightly. Most of the waves of immigrants to Western countries today don't want to work, they want to exploit the local welfare system. Evidently, we're not as lucky as Israel is, to have immigrants that come by invitation of employers searching for workers.

Do you actually think those poor Africans are going on a cruise when they try to get to Europe on unseaworthy craft or the poor Hispanics crossing the desert think it is Palm Springs they will be treking through?

No, and I'm not sure what relevance this holds with either the topic of the thread or as a response to my post.

I think you should try and find some articles written by Middle East Jews who will tell you just how nice your brethren were to them.

Since you evidently know so much about me, tell me who you think my "brethren" are.

 

[irosie91]

While I

The original purpose of the jizya was to take the place of the Muslim zakat. All Muslims are required to pay 2.5% of their net worth (not income, but net worth) towards charitable purposes. Because non-Muslims living in Muslim lands were not subject to paying zakat ("Let there be no compulsion in religion," per the Qur'an), a smaller nominal fee was collected from non-Muslims to benefit the poor. Jizya payments were not intended to serve as mob-style "protection money."

The author further uses the word "discriminatory" here to imply that all discrimination is inherently wrong. The kind of discrimination the jizya institutes is more akin to the free and reduced lunch program at public schools in the U.S., wherein some people are asked to pay a fee substantially reduced from the amount paid by the general population.

The above description of Jizya is obscene bullshit. Jizya
has nothing to do with "money for the poor" It is TRIBUTE
EXACTED BY MUSLIM OVERLORDS FROM VANQUISHED
NON-MUSLIMS. Nor is it nominal----no matter how
impoverished the non muslim----he had to come up with the
CONSIDERABLE sum which was of no benefit to himself
or his community -----it is tribute entirely. Non muslims
receive NO BENEFIT from either Jizya or Zakat----the benefit
is entirely for the MUSLIM NATION. As to social services
for non muslim communities----they are ENTIRELY upon the
shoulders of the non muslim community.
You got a link to that BULLSHIT Machaut----or did you pick it up in a mosque? In fact, a comparison between Jizya and MOB PROTECTION money is very apt. Your
description seems to me like something that a depraved
Imam would claim as part of a KHUTBAH JUMAAT-----
Jizya is gross and obscene oppression----Zakat is money
muslims donate to MUSLIM causes, muslim aggression ---
ie ---to their own and to no one else. Today as in the past---
Zakat paid for the weapons muslims used and use to murder
non muslims, and also for mosques and for the advancement of ISLAM never for anything of benefit to
non muslims. Non muslims pay the Jizya of their impoverished members just to avoid them being MURDERED
for the glory of the rapist pig of mecca, they pay for their own
schools----places of worship and anything else that their OWN communities need including feeding their own starving members. ----in classical shariah cesspits----non muslims are ONE their own------except for avoiding Islamic aggression
by PAYING THEM OFF

 

[Sally]

I couldn't catch your reply, IRosie, but those Jews were certainly treated just wonderfully by the Arabs in the Arab countries.

Who is an Arab Jew? by Albert Memmi

Meanwhile, the Arabs and their fellow travelers want us to think there were tons of Arabs living in the area which is now the country of Israel, and that they were so, so successful, but the Jews stole everything from them. Of course, they want to blame all those European Jews who were the thiefs in their minds, "thiefs" who supplied these poor Arabs from the impoverished surrounding countries with jobs. Imagine if DNA tests could be taken of these so-called Palestinians to ascertain which country their ancestors came from, such as Egypt, Syria, etc. I am willing to be that if DNA tests were given to the Muslims in the other Middle East countries, many of them would find that their ancestors were actually Christians who were lucky enough to survive the onslaught when Mohammed's gang left the Saudi Peninsula and invaded the surrounding countries.

 

[irosie91]

[QUOTE="Machaut, post: 9652786,

Since you evidently know so much about me, tell me who you think my "brethren" are.[/QUOTE]

Machaut-----I am not sure to whom you address this question----but I will try to answer who
I think your bretheren are. Based on your "knowledge" of JIZYA----I would say that your
bretheren are either mosque attending muslims or islamo Nazi propaganda readers.

The first people I ran into who actually bought into the crap you posted were muslims
from south east asia -------young, educated muslims ----clearly "educated" in muslim
schools But I also read it in islamo Nazi propaganda pamphlets----the stuff that exists
in the USA-----I read it as a child in the post world war II era. Some of it was written by
Nazi war criminals living in Syria and Egypt