Zone1 The Right to Rescue

[CarlinAnnArbor]

If taken to the extreme, some people would use the premise of the OP to rescue animals from farms that are being raised for human consumption

That would be great.

 

[Road Runner]

Yeah there is.

No there isn't. It doesn't bother me that you're a vegan so why should it bother you that I'm not one? Isn't there more going on in this country right now that you should be a lot more worried about besides what strangers on the internet decide to eat?

 

[Road Runner]

Umm no I didn't actually. It was an ongoing topic between her and Marty.

Not sure why this comment was marked as fake news btw as I can't find the lie.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

No there isn't. It doesn't bother me that you're a vegan so why should it bother you that I'm not one?

I'm not bothered. I express my understanding here same as you. If you get off on animal abuse, I guess that's between you and God. But a day of reckoning is coming soon.

Liberals here aren't bothered about mentally ill guys in our schools showering with someone's daughter. You are. You're obsessed with homosexuality. If they're not bothered, why are you? See how that works

You claim to be pro life. You argue with people who are pro abortion. They don't care if you have a baby, but you care if they kill theirs. If they don't care what you do, why do you care what they do? See how that works?

"Does it bother you that I abuse animals?"

"Not me."

"Why not?"

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Not sure why this comment was marked as fake news btw as I can't find the lie.

Because you were continuing the vegan argument with Buttercup then accusing her of talking about it ONLY after responding to your nonsense-- just like you're doing with me.

Time for you to be put back on ignore. Bye

 

[App'z]

The right to life is a natural right for our pets. We do not hunt them for food.
That being said other Cultures stuff them, eat them or whatever, it's their choice.

 

[Delldude]

Do you believe it's ethical to rescue a dog trapped in a hot car who is clearly in distress and would die if left in the vehicle?

The reason I ask is because there's a big legal battle going on right now, between people who believe there is an ethical right to rescue animals (in general, not just dogs) from extremely abusive situations.... and those who oppose that type of rescue, on the grounds that animals are their "property." The latter group is big industries that rely on ag-gag laws to continue getting away with the worst possible animal abuse.

I know that this idea is very controversial for a number of reasons. First, most people have been conditioned to love and respect dogs, cats, and other pets... and to not care about farm animals or other animals that people eat.

Another reason why 'the right to rescue' is controversial is because it involves breaking and entering into someone's place of business, where the animals are trapped.

Here's the thing, though. There are already some laws on the books against animal cruelty. So if a business is clearly and demonstrably violating those laws.... how can they claim they're the innocent victim....and the rescuer - who is saving the animal from something both illegal and immoral - is the criminal?

If the breaking and entering and "stealing" an animal makes the rescuer a criminal... then what about breaking and entering into someone's car to rescue a dog who is visibly suffering and about to die?

Isn't that dog also "property" of the owner, who can do whatever he wants to his dog, including leaving him to die in a hot car?

What are your thoughts on 'the right to rescue'..... should it be acceptable, when it's a case of clearly saving an animal from the worst possible abuse which every sane person knows is wrong? Or should it be treated as a crime, and should those who rescue animals from those types of situations be put in jail for a long time, as they almost did to Wayne Hsiung , who saved three beagles from Ridglan Farms?

So if it was a child......................any difference?

 

[Road Runner]

I'm not bothered. I express my understanding here same as you. If you get off on animal abuse, I guess that's between you and God. But a day of reckoning is coming soon.

Liberals here aren't bothered about mentally ill guys in our schools showering with someone's daughter. You are. You're obsessed with homosexuality. If they're not bothered, why are you? See how that works

You claim to be pro life. You argue with people who are pro abortion. They don't care if you have a baby, but you care if they kill theirs. If they don't care what you do, why do you care what they do? See how that works?

"Does it bother you that I abuse animals?"

"Not me."

"Why not?"

First of all I figured that I would respond to this even though you put me on ignore, because the fact that you think that I'm going to Hell for eating meat tells me that you know absolutely nothing about the Bible. Second of all, I do not support animal abuse as that is a lie.

Just because I eat some animals doesn't mean that I want them to be abused as there's both a right way and a wrong way to slaughter and butcher them so they don't feel pain and suffer.


Finally, there's a huge difference between an animal and a baby and I don't care about homosexuality as I'm sick and tired of being bombarded with LGBT stuff, but I digress as we're REALLY off topic now.

Because you were continuing the vegan argument with Buttercup then accusing her of talking about it ONLY after responding to your nonsense-- just like you're doing with me.

Time for you to be put back on ignore. Bye

Whatever, my head hurts.

That being said other Cultures stuff them, eat them or whatever, it's their choice.

Thank you for bringing that up actually as that's a good point. Although I honestly don't want to see any animal suffer.

So if it was a child......................any difference?

It should make even more of a difference actually.

 

[JoeMoma]

First of all I figured that I would respond to this even though you put me on ignore, because the fact that you think that I'm going to Hell for eating meat tells me that you know absolutely nothing about the Bible. Second of all, I do not support animal abuse as that is a lie.

I had someone put me on ignore over this topic also, even though I've been nothing but respectful in this thread. Some people ore hyper sensitive about this topic.

 

[buttercup]

I had someone put me on ignore over this topic also, even though I've been nothing but respectful in this thread. Some people ore hyper sensitive about this topic.

Who put you on ignore? I hope you didn't think I did, because I never put anyone on ignore.

I apologize for not replying to some posts, but in the last few days I've been super busy. First I was finishing up a video... and then right after that I got an unexpected website gig, which needs to be done in a week, so I've been a busy bee working on that.

I think a couple people answered your question, but yes, I'm vegan, it'll be 8 years this May. It has truly changed my life and my only regret is not doing it sooner.

Thanks you all for your posts on this thread. If this discussion is still going, I'll get back to it later, but like I said it's going to be a busy few next days.

 

[Road Runner]

I had someone put me on ignore over this topic also, even though I've been nothing but respectful in this thread. Some people ore hyper sensitive about this topic.

Agreed and I have been nothing but nice and civil to Carl.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

I had someone put me on ignore over this topic also, even though I've been nothing but respectful in this thread. Some people ore hyper sensitive about this topic.

Maybe they're not interested in rehashing the same "argument" over, and over, and over and over as you ignore the clear facts

 

[JoeMoma]

Who put you on ignore? I hope you didn't think I did, because I never put anyone on ignore.

I apologize for not replying to some posts, but in the last few days I've been super busy. First I was finishing up a video... and then right after that I got an unexpected website gig, which needs to be done in a week, so I've been a busy bee working on that.

I think a couple people answered your question, but yes, I'm vegan, it'll be 8 years this May. It has truly changed my life and my only regret is not doing it sooner.

Thanks you all for your posts on this thread. If this discussion is still going, I'll get back to it later, but like I said it's going to be a busy few next days.

No I didn't think you iggied me. Check the messages to my profile if you want to know who did.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

No I didn't think you iggied me. Check the messages to my profile if you want to know who did.

Do you think you have a right to be heard by everyone?

You have a right to speak. Everyone isn't obligated to listen.

 

[JoeMoma]

Do you think you have a right to be heard by everyone?

You have a right to speak. Everyone isn't obligated to listen.

I never said anything that should make you feel that I thought such a thing. You have the right to be offended by this post and post a reply to my profile stating that you are placing me on ignore. And I have the right to say you are being overly sensitive if you do so.

 

[buttercup]

Speaking of animal rescue....Everyone should watch the new documentary Christspiracy when it comes out online. I saw it last Sunday on the big screen, and it was really, really good. I'm sure it will cause some controversy among mainstream Christians, but it's not anti-Christian or anti-any religion. It's more about how certain important truths have been covered up and how even religious institutions have become complicit in protecting the status quo, above God's perfect will. I learned some very interesting things that you just never hear talked about.

There were one or two claims that I didn't agree with, but I wholeheartedly agreed with the main message of the film, and it's definitely worth watching.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Speaking of animal rescue....Everyone should watch the new documentary Christspiracy when it comes out online. I saw it last Sunday on the big screen, and it was really, really good. I'm sure it will cause some controversy among mainstream Christians, but it's not anti-Christian or anti-any religion. It's more about how certain important truths have been covered up and how even religious institutions have become complicit in protecting the status quo, above God's perfect will. I learned some very interesting things that you just never hear talked about.
I
There were one or two claims that I didn't agree with, but I wholeheartedly agreed with the main message of the film, and it's definitely worth watching.

It definitely looks interesting. I'll wait until I see it before I form an opinion

 

[buttercup]

It definitely looks interesting. I'll wait until I see it before I form an opinion

Yep, I was very concerned about it before I saw it, because you know how it typically goes when non-believers make movies about Christianity. And in this case, how they present Christianity could either cause Christians to be receptive to biblical veganism or be even more opposed to it, which of course would be completely counterproductive.

TBH I don't know how mainstream Christians are going to react to it, because almost all the feedback I've heard so far has been from vegans (either Christian or secular.) But like I said, it isn't anti-Christian, so that in and of itself caused me to breathe a sigh of relief, haha.

Interestingly, I get the feeling that this film is going to bring a lot of non-believing vegans to God, probably more than it brings Christian non-vegans to veganism.

But we'll see. Of course the best case scenario would be for both of those groups to be reached.

Oh, btw.... I kinda misspoke. Of the 2 filmmakers (Kip Andersen and Kam Waters) Kam is a Christian* and Kip isn't.

*I think, not entirely sure. But he definitely comes from a Christian background.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Yep, I was very concerned about it before I saw it, because you know how it typically goes when non-believers make movies about Christianity. And in this case, how they present Christianity could either cause Christians to be receptive to biblical veganism or be even more opposed to it, which of course would be completely counterproductive.

TBH I don't know how mainstream Christians are going to react to it, because almost all the feedback I've heard so far has been from vegans (either Christian or secular.) But like I said, it isn't anti-Christian, so that in and of itself caused me to breathe a sigh of relief, haha.

Interestingly, I get the feeling that this film is going to bring a lot of non-believing vegans to God, probably more than it brings Christian non-vegans to veganism.

But we'll see. Of course the best case scenario would be for both of those groups to be reached.

Oh, btw.... I kinda misspoke. Of the 2 filmmakers (Kip Andersen and Kam Waters) Kam is a Christian* and Kip isn't.

*I think, not entirely sure. But he definitely comes from a Christian background.

I will say first that I ALWAYS try to be honest with myself when it comes to the things of God. Even if we don't live perfect lives, I strive to admit biblical truth when I recognize it, because in the end, the will of God prevails, and not my own desires. I believe when you stop saying, "yes Lord." When He reveals new truth, THAT is when He stops feeding you new understanding.

Here is what I understand so far.

Despite the shallow "Christian"/pagan belief that we all go to heaven when we die, the TRUTH is, the dead are DEAD until Christ returns and He calls His true Church to life to meet Him in the air.

We LAND ON EARTH -- the Mount of Olives -- where He immediately establishes the Kingdom of God ON THE EARTH starting from Jerusalem.My point is, there will still be flesh and blood humans on the earth who will be ruled by "the Gods"

It is also STRONGLY implied that the Temple sacrifices will continue throughout the Millennium. The reason is suggested that this is done as a memorial and a daily reminder of the consequences of sin.

These things appear to be FACT. If you have another explanation, I'm willing to listen

Will there be animal sacrifices during the millennial kingdom? | GotQuestions.org

Will there be animal sacrifices during the millennial kingdom? If Christ’s sacrifice was perfect and sufficient, why would animals need to be sacrificed during the millennium?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[buttercup]

I will say first that I ALWAYS try to be honest with myself when it comes to the things of God. Even if we don't live perfect lives, I strive to admit biblical truth when I recognize it, because in the end, the will of God prevails, and not my own desires. I believe when you stop saying, "yes Lord." When He reveals new truth, THAT is when He stops feeding you new understanding.

Here is what I understand so far.

Despite the shallow "Christian"/pagan belief that we all go to heaven when we die, the TRUTH is, the dead are DEAD until Christ returns and He calls His true Church to life to meet Him in the air.

We LAND ON EARTH -- the Mount of Olives -- where He immediately establishes the Kingdom of God ON THE EARTH starting from Jerusalem.My point is, there will still be flesh and blood humans on the earth who will be ruled by "the Gods"

It is also STRONGLY implied that the Temple sacrifices will continue throughout the Millennium. The reason is suggested that this is done as a memorial and a daily reminder of the consequences of sin.

These things appear to be FACT. If you have another explanation, I'm willing to listen

Will there be animal sacrifices during the millennial kingdom? | GotQuestions.org

Will there be animal sacrifices during the millennial kingdom? If Christ’s sacrifice was perfect and sufficient, why would animals need to be sacrificed during the millennium?

www.gotquestions.org

The Jeremiah passage mentions the Levitical priesthood. Jesus is the greater priesthood according to Melchizedek.

In regard to the other verses that article mentions and the view that animal sacrifices will continue as a memorial, I believe that is an incorrect conclusion, for a few reasons. For one, it would contradict a number of other scriptures.

Also, since animal sacrifice was not God's idea in the first place (it has pagan origins) and there are numerous scriptures from the prophets that speak very negatively about animal sacrifices, it just doesn't ring true to me at all that they would continue, even as a remembrance. Remember, Jesus specifically taught us to remember His sacrifice by consuming the bread and wine (unfermented, but that's another topic entirely, lol) as a symbol of his body and blood....as opposed to killing and eating a dead lamb. In the past, I never really thought about it, but the more I think about it, the more I realize that Jesus was very intentional about choosing bread and wine as that remembrance, when it could have been something else entirely.

CCC did a live talk on this topic a couple years ago (I'll post it below) and I've also read some commentary on this issue from all-creatures.org, and both of them said the same thing - that those scriptures that appear to be talking about the future actually already happened.

If one of the main claims from the film Christspiracy is true, then there's no way Jesus would continue with animal sacrifice in the future, even as a memorial. I don't want to post too many spoilers, but one of the main points of the film is that the "cleansing of the temple" passage has been misconstrued, that it wasn't solely about the moneychangers. It was about the violence, the bloodshed, in the temple of God.