The USA's Great Proud Just History.

[elektra]

If you had even a tenuous grasp on history you would not make that statement.

You think Japan would of fared better had they been wiped out with conventional bombs and a full invasion over the course of 12 months? How so?

 

[whitehall]

The United States of America's "great proud and just history" doesn't excuse the decision to use nuclear weapons on civilians. FDR democrats most likely foresaw the problem they might have with an independent V.P. that might be aware of the insanity of nuclear weapons and decide not go along with the eggheads and the crazies in the military so they fired the sitting Vice President while he was on vacation and picked a freaking high school educated haberdasher from Missouri to be president when they knew FDR wouldn't live out his 3rd term. Though the years he media tried to prop up Harry Truman's legacy but Korea showed that he was in fact a dumb assed timid bureaucrat who was afraid to confront his own General until it was too late.

In your opinion. Sadly, when fighting war, you fight a country not a person. It is a bit different today, we do have precision weapons. Back then we did not and back then we were in a fight to the death. I suppose American lives do matter. The thousands that would did in prison camps. I guess it does not matter to you that any other scenario would be not to attack and leave the japanese armies intact. To leave the Japanese ruling Manchuria in China. You would of left the Japanese ruling Korea. You would of left the Japanese in the Philippines and Indochina?

Sad is war, we do not need to excuse ourselves, nor our decisions that ended World War II. Surrender was up to the Japanese and they refused. It was not up to us to throw in the towel for them.

I get it. The defense for using the most horrific weapon in history is that we were fighting the Japanese race.

 

[Unkotare]

If you had even a tenuous grasp on history you would not make that statement.

You think Japan would of fared better had they been wiped out with conventional bombs and a full invasion over the course of 12 months? ...

Who, other than you, has said that?

 

[elektra]

The United States of America's "great proud and just history" doesn't excuse the decision to use nuclear weapons on civilians. FDR democrats most likely foresaw the problem they might have with an independent V.P. that might be aware of the insanity of nuclear weapons and decide not go along with the eggheads and the crazies in the military so they fired the sitting Vice President while he was on vacation and picked a freaking high school educated haberdasher from Missouri to be president when they knew FDR wouldn't live out his 3rd term. Though the years he media tried to prop up Harry Truman's legacy but Korea showed that he was in fact a dumb assed timid bureaucrat who was afraid to confront his own General until it was too late.

In your opinion. Sadly, when fighting war, you fight a country not a person. It is a bit different today, we do have precision weapons. Back then we did not and back then we were in a fight to the death. I suppose American lives do matter. The thousands that would did in prison camps. I guess it does not matter to you that any other scenario would be not to attack and leave the japanese armies intact. To leave the Japanese ruling Manchuria in China. You would of left the Japanese ruling Korea. You would of left the Japanese in the Philippines and Indochina?

Sad is war, we do not need to excuse ourselves, nor our decisions that ended World War II. Surrender was up to the Japanese and they refused. It was not up to us to throw in the towel for them.

I get it. The defense for using the most horrific weapon in history is that we were fighting the Japanese race.

No, you dont get it, and I understand you dont give a shit about our country nor our people. I am not here to change your mind. I am simply here to show the others here that you can not construct any sort of rational argument. All weapons are horrific. It is especially horrific to be tortured and starved to death. It is horrific to have to fight a land was against fanatics fighting to the death. Of course you know nothing about any of this for you have not educated yourself on this topic. Somebody planted a little idea in your head and you think you are clever repeating it

 

[elektra]

I get it. The defense for using the most horrific weapon in history is that we were fighting the Japanese race.

No, the defense for using the most powerful weapon in history, was that the Japanese perpetrated an act of war upon us and we had to defend ourselves.

We fight to win, to win as quickly as possible, with the least amount of damage and death to our own citizens.

 

[Unkotare]

I get it. The defense for using the most horrific weapon in history is that we were fighting the Japanese race.

No, the defense for using the most powerful weapon in history, was that the Japanese perpetrated an act of war upon us and we had to defend ourselves.

We fight to win, to win as quickly as possible, with the least amount of damage and death to our own citizens.

That is a completely specious argument given that the enemy was defeated, and we targeted and slaughtered unarmed civilians.

 

[elektra]

That is a completely specious argument given that the enemy was defeated, and we targeted and slaughtered unarmed civilians.

Unless they are wiped off the face of the earth, no enemy is ever defeated. In august alone, we lost ships, subs, planes, and over a 1000 men.

Japan still had 5,000,000 armed men.

Japan had planes, bombs, bullets, submarines, and ships.

Your idea that Japan had thrown in the towel and could not inflict casualties is an argument nobody in history has been able to prove.

Got that, nobody in history has proved the Japanese were beat and unable to fight. You think differently, direct us to the book, the source, the person who thinks so.

Japan fought the Soviet Union until Sept 3rd of 1945, that is all the proof we need to show that the Japanese were able to fight and inflict causalties.

 

[Unkotare]

That is a completely specious argument given that the enemy was defeated, and we targeted and slaughtered unarmed civilians.

Unless they are wiped off the face of the earth, no enemy is ever defeated. ...

Then the war never ended?

 

[Unkotare]

...Got that, nobody in history has proved the Japanese were beat and unable to fight. ...

Statements to that effect by military leaders of the time have been posted dozens, if not hundreds of times.

 

[elektra]

Statements to that effect by military leaders of the time have been posted dozens, if not hundreds of times.

Eisenhower is about the only person anybody can quote. Only problem with Eisenhower is he gave many different versions of the story over the years. Each time, embellished a bit more. Until, the story was completely false and proven as such.

Of course the best source for what Eisenhower said to Stimson would be Stimson's diary which nobody ever quotes. Because nothing is there.

 

[elektra]

Then the war never ended?

For some, it never ended, some Japanese surrendered many decades later. Americans were getting killed throughout August, after the surrender.

 

[Unkotare]

Then the war never ended?

For some, it never ended,...

What do you mean "some"? According to your measure, it never ended for everyone.

 

[elektra]

What do you mean "some"? According to your measure, it never ended for everyone.

Really? I stated it never ended for anyone and you agree? Or are you just trolling adding nothing at all to my OP? Gee, it is so hard to figure you out. I most certainly search google for an answer to your serious observations and questions.

 

[Unkotare]

Hiroshima: Military Voices of Dissent | Origins

Almost six decades after the fact, the 1945 unleashing of an atomic bomb on Hiroshima continues to be the subject of impassioned debate. Every year the bombing anniversary — which falls on August 6 — occasions heated exchanges between those who question the atomic bombing and those who...

origins.osu.edu

 

[Unkotare]

What do you mean "some"? According to your measure, it never ended for everyone.

Really? I stated it never ended for anyone and you agree? ...

No, I do not agree. It was a stupid thing for you to say.

 

[elektra]

Hiroshima: Military Voices of Dissent | Origins

Almost six decades after the fact, the 1945 unleashing of an atomic bomb on Hiroshima continues to be the subject of impassioned debate. Every year the bombing anniversary — which falls on August 6 — occasions heated exchanges between those who question the atomic bombing and those who...

origins.osu.edu

Another google search? Well, it is the first offered by you. I can rip it apart. Of course Eisenhower has already been shown to be a liar but I will repost once again to show you and address this article.

Doug Dowd? "The final months of the war"? Over 75,000 causalities on Okinawa. That was a small island compared to the mainland. So, the idea that Japan was beat, unable to defend themselves is pure bullshit.

The Japanese were seeking to make a peace agreement? Yet none was offered to the USA. Vague offers to surrender to the soviet union or the swiss offered by people other than those who were the leaders of Japan?

It is easy to cut and paste something from google and pretend this is the knowledge that you know but it takes hours to address every lie that is in that cut/paste. Three of the lies are addressed and shown to be lies. If you wish to research and link to substantiate into fact what history has shown to be lies, go ahead. I will address more, later.

Doug Dowd, a Pacific-theater rescue pilot who was slated to take an early part in the invasion of Japan if it had come to that, recently stated that it was clear in the final months of the war that the Japanese "had lost the ability to defend themselves." American planes "met little, and then virtually no resistance," Dowd recalled. He added, "It is well-known [now] that the Japanese were seeking to make a peace agreement well before Hiroshima."

 

[Unkotare]

Hiroshima: Military Voices of Dissent | Origins

Almost six decades after the fact, the 1945 unleashing of an atomic bomb on Hiroshima continues to be the subject of impassioned debate. Every year the bombing anniversary — which falls on August 6 — occasions heated exchanges between those who question the atomic bombing and those who...

origins.osu.edu

Another google search? Well, it is the first offered by you....

The link is for the benefit of those like you who are ignorant of history. There are hundreds of links on the dozens of threads on this topic. Go read them and educate yourself.

 

[Unkotare]

... the idea that Japan was beat, unable to defend themselves is pure bullshit.
...

American military leaders knew that Japan was a beaten foe, and said so. But I should take your word for it instead?

 

[Unkotare]

...

The Japanese were seeking to make a peace agreement? ...

General MacArthur informed fdr of this in a 40-page communique several days before fdr left for the Yalta Conference. fdr summarily dismissed it because he has no interest in pursuing the possibility of peace regardless of how many more American servicemen would have to die.

 

[Mushroom]

View attachment 373036

No need to evacuate. America won't bomb the city.

Here is the sad thing, we did exactly that.

Starting in July, the US dropped millions of letters, warning the people of Japan that a terrible new weapon was about to be used. ANd the leaflets even mentioned the main target cities by name.

Read this carefully as it may save your life or the life of a relative or a friend. In the next few days, four or more of the cities named on the reverse side of this leaflet will be destroyed by American bombs. These cities contain military installations and workshops or factories, which produce military goods. We are determined to destroy all of the tools of the military clique that they are using to prolong this useless war. Unfortunately, bombs have no eyes. So, in accordance with America’s well-known humanitarian policies, the American Air Force, which does not wish to injure innocent people, now gives you warning to evacuate the cities named and save your lives.

America is not fighting the Japanese people but is fighting the military clique, which has enslaved the Japanese people. The peace, which America will bring, will free the people from the oppression of the Japanese military clique and mean the emergence of a new and better Japan.

You can restore peace by demanding new and better leaders who will end the War.

We cannot promise that only these cities will be among those attacked, but at least four will be, so heed this warning and evacuate these cities immediately.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were 2 of the cities specifically mentioned by name.