This is not free market vs. socialism, this is today's robber barons

[del]

A serial liar? Did you see that in any other presidents?

i saw it in all of them that i can remember.
do you have a point?

Yea, the previous president's lies led to death and destruction. What weight do you place on the consequences of presidential lies?

do you think that if the outcome of the lies is "benign", then the liar should get a pass? i completely disagree with that, in fact, let me cut to the chase.

saying that it should be okay that obama is lying to us because the outcomes of his lies are less heinous, in your opinion, than bush's lies is intellectually and morally dishonest, just as it was for the bush apologists in comparing bush's lies to clinton's, etc,etc.. if i've misconstrued your meaning, please clarify.

 

[Bfgrn]

i saw it in all of them that i can remember.
do you have a point?

Yea, the previous president's lies led to death and destruction. What weight do you place on the consequences of presidential lies?

do you think that if the outcome of the lies is "benign", then the liar should get a pass? i completely disagree with that, in fact, let me cut to the chase.

saying that it should be okay that obama is lying to us because the outcomes of his lies are less heinous, in your opinion, than bush's lies is intellectually and morally dishonest, just as it was for the bush apologists in comparing bush's lies to clinton's, etc,etc.. if i've misconstrued your meaning, please clarify.

Hey del, murder and lying to the IRS are both crimes, do they deserve the same punishment?

 

[del]

Yea, the previous president's lies led to death and destruction. What weight do you place on the consequences of presidential lies?

do you think that if the outcome of the lies is "benign", then the liar should get a pass? i completely disagree with that, in fact, let me cut to the chase.

saying that it should be okay that obama is lying to us because the outcomes of his lies are less heinous, in your opinion, than bush's lies is intellectually and morally dishonest, just as it was for the bush apologists in comparing bush's lies to clinton's, etc,etc.. if i've misconstrued your meaning, please clarify.

Hey del, murder and lying to the IRS are both crimes, do they deserve the same punishment?

no, but i've not stipulated that bush's lies led to any worse damage than obama's might or clinton's or h.w. bush's or reagan's or carter's or nixon's or lbj's or kennedy's did. i'd throw in ike but i really don't remember him.

i never supported the war in iraq, but neither do i accept that bush lied us into it. if that's where you're going with this, let's just agree to disagree now and save the bandwidth.

 

[sealybobo]

And you know what amazes me about Republicans? As bad as things are, they are still defending the GOP. No way I would still be a Democrat if the Dems did all this to the country. NO WAY!

The Dems are marginally better for the working classes than the Republicans.

VERY marginally better.

When it comes to the issue of HC, I am inclined to think the Dems are serious about doing something to fix things.

But what they NEED to do and what they're WILLING to do are miles apart.

Ergo they will, I suspect, do something that feels good and looks good but in the long run, doesn't really solve the problem.

Why?

Because in order to solve the problem they would have to seriously attack the HC establishment and they cannot do that because they are beholden to the HC establishment nearly as much as their fellow Rs are.

Doubt me?

Then go check and see how much money various HC establishments have given to our DEMOCRATIC pols over the years.

If i were a politician, I would take money from HC and in exchange, I wouldn't fuck them like they have fucked us.

But I certainly wouldn't help them fuck my constituents.

And here is how the Dems are marginally better. ALL of the GOP will vote with the HC companies. And ENOUGH Democrats will vote with them so to block any progress.

So the Dems that tried will say, "see, we tried".

Yes Editec, I understand where you are coming from. I hate it. Fucking Blue Dog Democrats.

 

[Bfgrn]

do you think that if the outcome of the lies is "benign", then the liar should get a pass? i completely disagree with that, in fact, let me cut to the chase.

saying that it should be okay that obama is lying to us because the outcomes of his lies are less heinous, in your opinion, than bush's lies is intellectually and morally dishonest, just as it was for the bush apologists in comparing bush's lies to clinton's, etc,etc.. if i've misconstrued your meaning, please clarify.

Hey del, murder and lying to the IRS are both crimes, do they deserve the same punishment?

no, but i've not stipulated that bush's lies led to any worse damage than obama's might or clinton's or h.w. bush's or reagan's or carter's or nixon's or lbj's or kennedy's did. i'd throw in ike but i really don't remember him.

i never supported the war in iraq, but neither do i accept that bush lied us into it. if that's where you're going with this, let's just agree to disagree now and save the bandwidth.

Well del, I won't waste my time or the bandwidth, but the term "serial" seems to be too big of a word for you to comprehend...

Study: Bush, aides made 935 false statements in run-up to war

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush and his top aides publicly made 935 false statements about the security risk posed by Iraq in the two years following September 11, 2001, according to a study released Tuesday by two nonprofit journalism groups.

"In short, the Bush administration led the nation to war on the basis of erroneous information that it methodically propagated and that culminated in military action against Iraq on March 19, 2003," reads an overview of the examination, conducted by the Center for Public Integrity and its affiliated group, the Fund for Independence in Journalism.

According to the study, Bush and seven top officials -- including Vice President Dick Cheney, former Secretary of State Colin Powell and then-National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice -- made 935 false statements about Iraq during those two years.

The study was based on a searchable database compiled of primary sources, such as official government transcripts and speeches, and secondary sources -- mainly quotes from major media organizations. Video See CNN viewers' reactions to the study »

The study says Bush made 232 false statements about Iraq and former leader Saddam Hussein's possessing weapons of mass destruction, and 28 false statements about Iraq's links to al Qaeda.

Bush has consistently asserted that at the time he and other officials made the statements, the intelligence community of the U.S. and several other nations, including Britain, believed Hussein had weapons of mass destruction.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/23/bush.iraq/

 

[del]

Hey del, murder and lying to the IRS are both crimes, do they deserve the same punishment?

no, but i've not stipulated that bush's lies led to any worse damage than obama's might or clinton's or h.w. bush's or reagan's or carter's or nixon's or lbj's or kennedy's did. i'd throw in ike but i really don't remember him.

i never supported the war in iraq, but neither do i accept that bush lied us into it. if that's where you're going with this, let's just agree to disagree now and save the bandwidth.

Well del, I won't waste my time or the bandwidth, but the term "serial" seems to be too big of a word for you to comprehend...

Study: Bush, aides made 935 false statements in run-up to war

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush and his top aides publicly made 935 false statements about the security risk posed by Iraq in the two years following September 11, 2001, according to a study released Tuesday by two nonprofit journalism groups.

"In short, the Bush administration led the nation to war on the basis of erroneous information that it methodically propagated and that culminated in military action against Iraq on March 19, 2003," reads an overview of the examination, conducted by the Center for Public Integrity and its affiliated group, the Fund for Independence in Journalism.

According to the study, Bush and seven top officials -- including Vice President Dick Cheney, former Secretary of State Colin Powell and then-National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice -- made 935 false statements about Iraq during those two years.

The study was based on a searchable database compiled of primary sources, such as official government transcripts and speeches, and secondary sources -- mainly quotes from major media organizations. Video See CNN viewers' reactions to the study »

The study says Bush made 232 false statements about Iraq and former leader Saddam Hussein's possessing weapons of mass destruction, and 28 false statements about Iraq's links to al Qaeda.

Bush has consistently asserted that at the time he and other officials made the statements, the intelligence community of the U.S. and several other nations, including Britain, believed Hussein had weapons of mass destruction.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/23/bush.iraq/

talk to me in two years. i stand by what i said, your attempts to condescend to me notwithstanding.

the large font is particularly impressive as well.

have a nice day.

 

[sealybobo]

no, but i've not stipulated that bush's lies led to any worse damage than obama's might or clinton's or h.w. bush's or reagan's or carter's or nixon's or lbj's or kennedy's did. i'd throw in ike but i really don't remember him.

i never supported the war in iraq, but neither do i accept that bush lied us into it. if that's where you're going with this, let's just agree to disagree now and save the bandwidth.

Well del, I won't waste my time or the bandwidth, but the term "serial" seems to be too big of a word for you to comprehend...

Study: Bush, aides made 935 false statements in run-up to war

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush and his top aides publicly made 935 false statements about the security risk posed by Iraq in the two years following September 11, 2001, according to a study released Tuesday by two nonprofit journalism groups.

"In short, the Bush administration led the nation to war on the basis of erroneous information that it methodically propagated and that culminated in military action against Iraq on March 19, 2003," reads an overview of the examination, conducted by the Center for Public Integrity and its affiliated group, the Fund for Independence in Journalism.

According to the study, Bush and seven top officials -- including Vice President Dick Cheney, former Secretary of State Colin Powell and then-National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice -- made 935 false statements about Iraq during those two years.

The study was based on a searchable database compiled of primary sources, such as official government transcripts and speeches, and secondary sources -- mainly quotes from major media organizations. Video See CNN viewers' reactions to the study »

The study says Bush made 232 false statements about Iraq and former leader Saddam Hussein's possessing weapons of mass destruction, and 28 false statements about Iraq's links to al Qaeda.

Bush has consistently asserted that at the time he and other officials made the statements, the intelligence community of the U.S. and several other nations, including Britain, believed Hussein had weapons of mass destruction.
[Uhttp://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/23/bush.iraq/[/U]

talk to me in two years. i stand by what i said, your attempts to condescend to me notwithstanding.

the large font is particularly impressive as well.

have a nice day.

What will happen in two years Del? We'll be out of the recession, we'll be out of iraq, what?

Seems like the guy just took you to the wood shed and yet again you came back with NOTHING.

I'm beginning to see a pattern.

 

[del]

Well del, I won't waste my time or the bandwidth, but the term "serial" seems to be too big of a word for you to comprehend...

Study: Bush, aides made 935 false statements in run-up to war

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush and his top aides publicly made 935 false statements about the security risk posed by Iraq in the two years following September 11, 2001, according to a study released Tuesday by two nonprofit journalism groups.

"In short, the Bush administration led the nation to war on the basis of erroneous information that it methodically propagated and that culminated in military action against Iraq on March 19, 2003," reads an overview of the examination, conducted by the Center for Public Integrity and its affiliated group, the Fund for Independence in Journalism.

According to the study, Bush and seven top officials -- including Vice President Dick Cheney, former Secretary of State Colin Powell and then-National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice -- made 935 false statements about Iraq during those two years.

The study was based on a searchable database compiled of primary sources, such as official government transcripts and speeches, and secondary sources -- mainly quotes from major media organizations. Video See CNN viewers' reactions to the study »

The study says Bush made 232 false statements about Iraq and former leader Saddam Hussein's possessing weapons of mass destruction, and 28 false statements about Iraq's links to al Qaeda.

Bush has consistently asserted that at the time he and other officials made the statements, the intelligence community of the U.S. and several other nations, including Britain, believed Hussein had weapons of mass destruction.
[Uhttp://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/23/bush.iraq/[/U]

talk to me in two years. i stand by what i said, your attempts to condescend to me notwithstanding.

the large font is particularly impressive as well.

have a nice day.

What will happen in two years Del? We'll be out of the recession, we'll be out of iraq, what?

Seems like the guy just took you to the wood shed and yet again you came back with NOTHING.

I'm beginning to see a pattern.

obama hasn't been in office long enough to compare his record with the two years cited in the study. pretty basic, bozo.

you wore a helmet to school, huh?

 

[Bfgrn]

no, but i've not stipulated that bush's lies led to any worse damage than obama's might or clinton's or h.w. bush's or reagan's or carter's or nixon's or lbj's or kennedy's did. i'd throw in ike but i really don't remember him.

i never supported the war in iraq, but neither do i accept that bush lied us into it. if that's where you're going with this, let's just agree to disagree now and save the bandwidth.

Well del, I won't waste my time or the bandwidth, but the term "serial" seems to be too big of a word for you to comprehend...

Study: Bush, aides made 935 false statements in run-up to war

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush and his top aides publicly made 935 false statements about the security risk posed by Iraq in the two years following September 11, 2001, according to a study released Tuesday by two nonprofit journalism groups.

"In short, the Bush administration led the nation to war on the basis of erroneous information that it methodically propagated and that culminated in military action against Iraq on March 19, 2003," reads an overview of the examination, conducted by the Center for Public Integrity and its affiliated group, the Fund for Independence in Journalism.

According to the study, Bush and seven top officials -- including Vice President Dick Cheney, former Secretary of State Colin Powell and then-National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice -- made 935 false statements about Iraq during those two years.

The study was based on a searchable database compiled of primary sources, such as official government transcripts and speeches, and secondary sources -- mainly quotes from major media organizations. Video See CNN viewers' reactions to the study »

The study says Bush made 232 false statements about Iraq and former leader Saddam Hussein's possessing weapons of mass destruction, and 28 false statements about Iraq's links to al Qaeda.

Bush has consistently asserted that at the time he and other officials made the statements, the intelligence community of the U.S. and several other nations, including Britain, believed Hussein had weapons of mass destruction.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/23/bush.iraq/

talk to me in two years. i stand by what i said, your attempts to condescend to me notwithstanding.

the large font is particularly impressive as well.

have a nice day.

the large font is called a Headline

 

[del]

Well del, I won't waste my time or the bandwidth, but the term "serial" seems to be too big of a word for you to comprehend...

Study: Bush, aides made 935 false statements in run-up to war

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush and his top aides publicly made 935 false statements about the security risk posed by Iraq in the two years following September 11, 2001, according to a study released Tuesday by two nonprofit journalism groups.

"In short, the Bush administration led the nation to war on the basis of erroneous information that it methodically propagated and that culminated in military action against Iraq on March 19, 2003," reads an overview of the examination, conducted by the Center for Public Integrity and its affiliated group, the Fund for Independence in Journalism.

According to the study, Bush and seven top officials -- including Vice President Dick Cheney, former Secretary of State Colin Powell and then-National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice -- made 935 false statements about Iraq during those two years.

The study was based on a searchable database compiled of primary sources, such as official government transcripts and speeches, and secondary sources -- mainly quotes from major media organizations. Video See CNN viewers' reactions to the study »

The study says Bush made 232 false statements about Iraq and former leader Saddam Hussein's possessing weapons of mass destruction, and 28 false statements about Iraq's links to al Qaeda.

Bush has consistently asserted that at the time he and other officials made the statements, the intelligence community of the U.S. and several other nations, including Britain, believed Hussein had weapons of mass destruction.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/23/bush.iraq/

talk to me in two years. i stand by what i said, your attempts to condescend to me notwithstanding.

the large font is particularly impressive as well.

have a nice day.

the large font is called a Headline

thanks for clearing that up. i was deeply, deeply concerned.

 

[Bfgrn]

talk to me in two years. i stand by what i said, your attempts to condescend to me notwithstanding.

the large font is particularly impressive as well.

have a nice day.

the large font is called a Headline

thanks for clearing that up. i was deeply, deeply concerned.

I could tell del...lol

 

[editec]

The dysfunctional state of health insurance in this country has nothing to do with class warfare, the rich and all of that blather.

Well...in a manner of speaking, you are right about that.

In another, everything that happens in this nation has to do with its built-in classism.

It needs to be overhauled, tort opportunities restructured, free riding eliminated, and all sorts of things that cry out for reform.

Yes. None of which can be fixed until we change our basic attitude about health care. It was a historical ccident that HC was tied to employment to begin with.

And this temporary solution (giving HC instead of wage increases) just grew and grew into this frankenstein monster we're living with today.

Frankly, I don't care how it is done.

You will if its done wrong.

And here's one of those rare cases were even I don't think I have a solution.

Federalizing/nationalizing the system will fix little and add to its already high inefficiency.

I'd have to hear that position amplifed into specifics before I can sign onto it.

But you are right that, depending on how its done, it's going to cause problems for some of us, that's for damned sure.

Anyone on the board who wants to characterize this position as right wing or conservative, recommend they take a deep breath and start thinking for themselves.

Conservative Republicans in office are no less certain that the system is broken that the most liberal Democrats.

This is a very complex problem and there is no simple pill-like solution for it that will do no harm.

Damned right.

The devil is in the details.