Trump will announce end of birthright citizenship for children of illegal immigrants, officials say

Yes, it can. But not in this context. The government has jurisdiction over people living here or even visitors. It does not have jurisdiction over foreign diplomats. It didn't have jurisdiction over Native Tribes until they finally abolished all the Indian Nations and made them all citizens to steal what little land they had left.

If you want to declare immigrants (and not just illegal immigrants) as not being under the jurisdiction of the US, then you have to treat them like foreign diplomats.



Yet you've made throwing brown people out of the country the top priority in your life.



Except this isn't what Trump is arguing. He's arguing that ONLY American citizens can give birth to other American citizens. Shit, it's the Birther Bullshit all over again.



Overturning Roe was a complete clusterfuck, as we are seeing, but that's not the topic here.

The question is, would overturning Wong be a good idea? Most certainly not.

This article discusses proposals to end Birthright Citizenship in Canada, but most of her arguments could apply for the US as well.


The elimination of birthright citizenship would affect not just migrants, but all of us. A citizenship application will need to be made for every person born in Canada. More tax dollars would be needed to process the applications. Clerks would suddenly have the power to make substantive and legal determinations about the status of every person that applies for citizenship. Like any administrative system, mistakes would be made. Bad or wrong decisions would be challenged in the courts at great expense to both the state and the people affected. People would struggle with the fact that they are stateless in the interim.

Undoubtedly, doing away with birthright citizenship would increase the number of stateless persons in Canada. Being stateless has serious implications. Stateless persons have difficulty accessing education, employment, health care, social services and freedom of movement. Simple things like obtaining a bank account, cell phone account or registering birth, marriage or death are complicated if not impossible. Stateless persons would be subject to arrest, detention and potential removal to places they may never have been before.
The elimination of birthright citizenship would have the greatest impact on the most vulnerable: the indigent, those with mental illness, and children who are in precarious family situations or are wards of the state. These are the people that may not have the appropriate paperwork or proof that they do qualify for citizenship or do not have support for obtaining citizenship. For example, parents (who are Canadian citizens or permanent residents) of persons seeking citizenship may have lost paperwork, may not want to cooperate, may not be in the country, or may find out they are not the biological parent of that child.


Yes, it can. But not in this context. The government has jurisdiction over people living here or even visitors. It does not have jurisdiction over foreign diplomats. It didn't have jurisdiction over Native Tribes until they finally abolished all the Indian Nations and made them all citizens to steal what little land they had left.

OK, so we agree it can have different meanings. And now we're talking about context, and in this case, the writers give the context used in this example, for this amendment.

Sentor trumbull, in this example, said that "jurisdiction" meant not owing allilegience to anyone else. When they had this amendment in mind, they were not thinking of being subject to just a country's laws, they were talking about 'complete jurisdiction' which included not owing allegiance to anyone else or another country not being able to claim jurisdiction over you.

In these cases, non citizens were not under complete jurisdiction as they had allegiance to their home country and their home country could claim jurisdiction over them.

If you want to declare immigrants (and not just illegal immigrants) as not being under the jurisdiction of the US, then you have to treat them like foreign diplomats.

No, illegal immigrants would be treated like aliens (non citizens), who still owe allegiance and are subject to another country.

Yet you've made throwing brown people out of the country the top priority in your life.


Once again, incorrect. You, like all leftist, love to weild the "racism" card like a weapon. And you are flat out wrong. Let us not forget it was you leftys who turned back the Cubans looking for asylum in america. Biden said "there is no room for you here".

If you're brown, pink, yellow, purple, or orange polka dotted, I don't care, are you legal? That's the question.

Except this isn't what Trump is arguing. He's arguing that ONLY American citizens can give birth to other American citizens. Shit, it's the Birther Bullshit all over again.

That's what is about to be debated. Was birthright citizenship intended to be for the children of non citizens, or people residing within the limits and under the jurisdiction (allegiece) of the US?

Overturning Roe was a complete clusterfuck, as we are seeing, but that's not the topic here.

But it is an example of reversing a bad decision that, when decided, was grossly misinterpreted and led to 50 years of status quo thinking that it was somehow a "constitutional right"

The article about Canada insinuates a problem that doesn't exist. If the child is born to parents, one of whom is a citizen, then the child is a citizen. If you are 8 months and 3 weeks pregnant and you manage to get across the border so you can give birth here, the child is not a citizen because the parents are subject to the jurisdiction of another country.
 
the problem is, I AM looking at the history of the amendment, through the words of the very people who wrote it...it is you all who are substituting.
Your opinion does not matter. SCOTUS will not consider it.
 
"Aliens" (non citizens) did exist. There may not have been any laws making them illegal, but they still existed.

And their children were accepted to be citizens... that was the point.

Before Wong and the anti-Chinese hysteria that broke out in the late 19th century, that children of immigrants were Americans wasn't even in dispute, even before the 14th Amendment.
 
OK, so we agree it can have different meanings. And now we're talking about context, and in this case, the writers give the context used in this example, for this amendment.

Sentor trumbull, in this example, said that "jurisdiction" meant not owing allilegience to anyone else. When they had this amendment in mind, they were not thinking of being subject to just a country's laws, they were talking about 'complete jurisdiction' which included not owing allegiance to anyone else or another country not being able to claim jurisdiction over you.

In these cases, non citizens were not under complete jurisdiction as they had allegiance to their home country and their home country could claim jurisdiction over them.

Then they should have wrote "not you, immigrants" into the amendment. They didn't. Why? Because at the time, they WANTED immigrants to come here.

Once again, incorrect. You, like all leftist, love to weild the "racism" card like a weapon. And you are flat out wrong. Let us not forget it was you leftys who turned back the Cubans looking for asylum in america. Biden said "there is no room for you here".

When did this happen?

Biden Expanded it.


Trump just rolled it back (bet those Cuban in Florida are feeling pretty stupid about now.)


That's what is about to be debated. Was birthright citizenship intended to be for the children of non citizens, or people residing within the limits and under the jurisdiction (allegiece) of the US?

Nope. We had that debate 126 years ago with Wong.



The article about Canada insinuates a problem that doesn't exist. If the child is born to parents, one of whom is a citizen, then the child is a citizen. If you are 8 months and 3 weeks pregnant and you manage to get across the border so you can give birth here, the child is not a citizen because the parents are subject to the jurisdiction of another country.

Really?

A few years back, I had a neighbor whose husband was undocumented. He got tagged for a DUI and got sent back to Mexico. His wife applied to get him back here because they were married as a citizenship sponsorship. USCIS's response was to question HER citizenship. Even though she had a birth certificate being born in Texas in the 1970s, the document was signed by a midwife, and they challenged whether it was legit or not. (Eventually, it was resolved in her favor and her husband returned).

Please don't tell me that the MAGA Fascists won't abuse this law if they get it.

But it is an example of reversing a bad decision that, when decided, was grossly misinterpreted and led to 50 years of status quo thinking that it was somehow a "constitutional right"

That's because you are piss-ignorant of why justices voted for Roe (including FIVE Republicans).

Here was the reality of abortion in 1972. All these states had laws on the books. They were completely unenforced unless a woman suffered complications. If a pregnant woman wanted to end her pregnancy, she went to her OB/GYN, he performed the procedure, wrote something else on the chart like "Pelvic exam", and she went on her way. Insurance happily paid for it because a $100 abortion/"Pelvic exam" was cheaper than a $3000 live birth with 18 years of pediatric care. The Catholics weren't happy, but they weren't happy when the courts used similar reasoning to get rid of the contraception laws in Griswald v. Connecticut.

Then the Evangelicals needed an issue to rally the stupids after they lost the argument on segregation. So suddenly, abortion became this horrible thing!!!

So for 52 years, we had a sensible law, so long we forgot why the law was sensible to start with.

Now we are going to have to learn it again.
 
Thisisme is like the young man running round hysterically yelling 'no' when his lady wants him to put on a rubber.

Birthright citizenship is not going to end because of an EO.
 
Is Trump going to change the Constitution?
If necessary. But it won't be. In 1973 ,the COURTS changed the constitution using the 14th to pass ROE. Trump Justices ended this nonsense.
 
And their children were accepted to be citizens... that was the point.

Before Wong and the anti-Chinese hysteria that broke out in the late 19th century, that children of immigrants were Americans wasn't even in dispute, even before the 14th Amendment.

So before the 14th amendment, there was no such thing as birthright citizenship, at least there wasn't a name for it.

14A was written in 1866
Chinese exclusion act was written in 1882
Wong kim ark decided in 1898

wong kim ark was generally considered the beginning of birthright citize ship. So the question is, how was BRC viewed between 1866 and 1898? It would appear they had the original meaning, up until cotus reinterpreted the 14A in 1898, right?

Before that, the meaning would have been what the senators who passed the bill intended, correct?
 
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Then they should have wrote "not you, immigrants" into the amendment. They didn't. Why? Because at the time, they WANTED immigrants to come here.



When did this happen?

Biden Expanded it.


Trump just rolled it back (bet those Cuban in Florida are feeling pretty stupid about now.)




Nope. We had that debate 126 years ago with Wong.





Really?

A few years back, I had a neighbor whose husband was undocumented. He got tagged for a DUI and got sent back to Mexico. His wife applied to get him back here because they were married as a citizenship sponsorship. USCIS's response was to question HER citizenship. Even though she had a birth certificate being born in Texas in the 1970s, the document was signed by a midwife, and they challenged whether it was legit or not. (Eventually, it was resolved in her favor and her husband returned).

Please don't tell me that the MAGA Fascists won't abuse this law if they get it.



That's because you are piss-ignorant of why justices voted for Roe (including FIVE Republicans).

Here was the reality of abortion in 1972. All these states had laws on the books. They were completely unenforced unless a woman suffered complications. If a pregnant woman wanted to end her pregnancy, she went to her OB/GYN, he performed the procedure, wrote something else on the chart like "Pelvic exam", and she went on her way. Insurance happily paid for it because a $100 abortion/"Pelvic exam" was cheaper than a $3000 live birth with 18 years of pediatric care. The Catholics weren't happy, but they weren't happy when the courts used similar reasoning to get rid of the contraception laws in Griswald v. Connecticut.

Then the Evangelicals needed an issue to rally the stupids after they lost the argument on segregation. So suddenly, abortion became this horrible thing!!!

So for 52 years, we had a sensible law, so long we forgot why the law was sensible to start with.

Now we are going to have to learn it again.

When did this happen?

Biden Expanded it.



Looks like he rolled out a huge roll of rel tape for those cubans...wrong kind of brown i guess.


Then they should have wrote "not you, immigrants" into the amendment. They didn't. Why? Because at the time, they WANTED immigrants to come here.

But they did..they just didn't physically write it into the 14A, just like they didn't write about Indians and foreigners, but we know their intent by their dialogue.

Nope. We had that debate 126 years ago with Wong.

Correct. Scotus reinterpreted the 14A, which means a new scotus can interpret it again i guess, since we are far and away from the original intent, the doors are open.

A few years back, I had a neighbor whose husband was undocumented. He got tagged for a DUI and got sent back to Mexico. His wife applied to get him back here because they were married as a citizenship sponsorship. USCIS's response was to question HER citizenship. Even though she had a birth certificate being born in Texas in the 1970s, the document was signed by a midwife, and they challenged whether it was legit or not. (Eventually, it was resolved in her favor and her husband returned).

OK, but we're talking about a child's citizenship here. If they had a child, it would be a citizen because SHE is a citizen.

Here was the reality of abortion in 1972. All these states had laws on the books. They were completely unenforced unless a woman suffered complications. If a pregnant woman wanted to end her pregnancy, she went to her OB/GYN, he performed the procedure, wrote something else on the chart like "Pelvic exam", and she went on her way. Insurance happily paid for it because a $100 abortion/"Pelvic exam" was cheaper than a $3000 live birth with 18 years of pediatric care. The Catholics weren't happy, but they weren't happy when the courts used similar reasoning to get rid of the contraception laws in Griswald v. Connecticut.

Then the Evangelicals needed an issue to rally the stupids after they lost the argument on segregation. So suddenly, abortion became this horrible thing!!!

So for 52 years, we had a sensible law, so long we forgot why the law was sensible to start with.

Now we are going to have to learn it again.

That's all fine, but it still didn't mean the Supreme Court had a right to create a law. Dobbs did not ban abortion because that too would not be within the authority of the scotus. All it did was return the issue to the states, nothing more.
 
So before the 14th amendment, there was no such thing as birthright citizenship, at least there wasn't a name for it.

14A was written in 1866
Chinese illusion act was written in 1882
Wong kim ark decided in 1898

wong kim ark was generally considered the beginning of birthright citize ship. So the question is, how was BRC viewed between 1866 and 1898? It would appear they had the original meaning, up until cotus reinterpreted the 14A in 1898, right?

Before that, the meaning would have been what the senators who passed the bill intended, correct?
Yes, anyone born in the US who was not the child of a foreign diplomat or an indigenous individual was a citizen.
 
Yes, anyone born in the US who was not the child of a foreign diplomat or an indigenous individual was a citizen.
Is there an example of this between 1866 and 1898? I can't seem to find any sites that gives me that information. Everything i read is showing 1898 as the start. I want to see information of common BRC between 1866 and 1898.
 
Is there an example of this between 1866 and 1898? I can't seem to find any sites that gives me that information. Everything i read is showing 1898 as the start. I want to see information of common BRC between 1866 and 1898.

What you 'see' does not matter in law. Period. Not ever.
 
What you 'see' does not matter in law. Period. Not ever.

But it does, actually. If you don't have examples of BRC between the passage of the 14A, and the decision of wong, then you get a picture of how the 14A was implemented, and how it was understood, and it shows you that BRC was only expanded by scotus, when they changed the interpretation of the 14A
 
But it does, actually. If you don't have examples of BRC between the passage of the 14A, and the decision of wong, then you get a picture of how the 14A was implemented, and how it was understood, and it shows you that BRC was only expanded by scotus, when they changed the interpretation of the 14A
Nope. You are not the judge at all; your interp is meaningless. Follow SCOTUS.
 
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