U.S getting spyed on by ally AGAIN?!!!

[Lipush]

I hope you mean "It'd be such a waste", that than "It'll be such a waste."

Well, I would say converting enemies reduces them faster than killing them. And Israel kills innocent Gazans almost daily.

Ok, so you don't KNOW the strategic purpose of Israel's nuclear arsenal, but unless you dispute the two purposes I propose (known & a deterrent or unknown for surprise attack) then your expressed anger at Vanunu remains unexplained and seemingly illogical.

I shan't press, but it just seems very odd.

'Israel kills innocent Gazans almost daily'

Why do you insist on making up bullshit like this?

Ummm. Really? Would it make a difference to you if Israel was killing gazans everyday? I get the sense that folks on this board support Israel not because they are peaceful and nice to palestinians but for other reasons.

Be reasonable.

Having an healthy argument and then saying something like "Israel kills in Gaza almost everyday" makes it a non-healthy argument since it is based on actual factual error.

His sources must be deceiving or not very helpful if that's what he learns from them.

 

[toastman]

BTW Beezle, why is the pre emptive strike bullocks??

Do you even know why Israel pre emptively struck Egypt??

 

[Lipush]

Israel didn't "pre" anything in 1967.

The Egyptians blocked the Tiran Straits, which were the passage of most of merchandise, including food and medical support, to Israel from the south.

It was an open declaration, and act, of war, cutting off basic needs of civilians.

Any attack on Egyptian military, following that, was pure defense.

 

[Lipush]

The cause of the 1948, and the event opening that war, was Palestinian attack on Jewish buss carrying children.

 

[aris2chat]

She said something very reasonable.

Really, I could not disagree more strongly. But I like your style so I will be polite on your behalf.

That's appreciated.

And please share. If someone is found guilty of treason, and serves life sentence, why is is illogical for some to want him out of prison?

He did his time, next year, God willing, he will return to his family. This is how it works. You serve time, you walk out.

If that is what the Americans decided, shey should keep their word.

He comes up for parole, again. If his release is linked to prisoner releases, he will refuse his parole hearing.

 

[aris2chat]

The cause of the 1948, and the event opening that war, was Palestinian attack on Jewish buss carrying children.

like the recent attack in hebron on a school bus from a girls school?

 

[Beelzebub]

I hope you mean "It'd be such a waste", that than "It'll be such a waste."

Uhhhhh....I'm not sure what you mean?

Did I say something grammatically incorrect?

The tense. "It'll" is an abbreviation for It will. Rather than "It would". One says it's going to happen. The other says it is speculation.

Well, I would say converting enemies reduces them faster than killing them. And Israel kills innocent Gazans almost daily.

Israel has not touched Gaza for days. Even when said people fired rockets. Which did, until about few weeks ago, happened almost daily.

Killing civilians daily in Gaza is another myth, or propaganda, or whatever it is you try to call it.

Yes. I was wrong. Being lazy and using a figure of speech, and I know we need precision in these debates. Numbers might be one of the few areas of general consensus.

According to B'Tselem Palestinian deaths from the IDF have been 563 from January 2009 to April 2014. So that is on average one Palestinian every 3.5 days.
Since they are often killed in clusters (time, I mean) the actual incidents will be further dispersed.

Ok, so you don't KNOW the strategic purpose of Israel's nuclear arsenal, but unless you dispute the two purposes I propose (known & a deterrent or unknown for surprise attack) then your expressed anger at Vanunu remains unexplained and seemingly illogical.

Va'anunu betrayed us. I see it as a good enough reason to dislike him. Just like I dislike Anat Kam.

She gets the easier pass, since she was young and probably very stupid, but Va'anunu caused greater damage.

He acted differently to policy, but actually warned off any further "existential" military attacks on Israel. Any nation knows if they get a large military force near your border, its nuclear curtains. Most observers see he did you a big favour. The only apparent reason to punish him as severely as you did was if you DON'T have such weapons, and were worried he might spill that particular bean.

I shan't press, but it just seems very odd.

Not from where I'm standing.

I left it open for you to get back on the issue. And easy to walk away if you didn't want to say more. I'm sorry if you saw me as being demanding.

Its a beautiful day here and I am happy for EVERYONE to take it easy.

 

[Dot Com]

No, your evasion of the topic is "Two Wrongs make a right"

Your sole purpose in bringing this to the board was to enhance your standing as an ANTI SEMITIC ISLAMONAZO PROPAGANDIST.

It is simply the fact that the worlds biggest spies are in no position to cry when the tables are turned and their secrets are stolen and used to undercut their profits. Far too long have American companies kept "best practise" as their domain and had the rest of the world playing catch up. They don't like it when another company invents a process that makes them have to play catch up.

Did you read the OP? I seriously doubt it. That foreign country said they would not spy on the U.S. anymore after 9/11. That turned out to be a lie

 

[RoccoR]

Beelzebub; et al,

I know this is quite foolish.

According to B'Tselem Palestinian deaths from the IDF have been 563 from January 2009 to April 2014. So that is on average one Palestinian every 3.5 days.
Since they are often killed in clusters (time, I mean) the actual incidents will be further dispersed.

(COMMENT)

The Arab Palestinian are, themselves, directly responsible for the casualty rate they suffer as a direct result of hostile operations they launch.

Engage peacefully, you get a peaceful response. Attack, and your get a reaction. In war, there is no such rule to respond proportionately.

The use of civilian populated areas as enemy launch sites, hostile training, command and control, only serves to increase collateral damage and inadvertent casualties. It demonstrates how little regard Palestinians have in the advancement and protection of their own kind.

If the Palestinian wants to reduce the casualty rate to "zero," then they must adhere to the Principles that: (10 little rules; easier than Sharia Law.)

• Every State has the duty to refrain in its international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations. Such a threat or use of force constitutes a violation of international law and the Charter of the United Nations and shall never be employed as a means of settling international issues.

• Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.

• States have a duty to refrain from acts of reprisal involving the use of force.

• All States shall pursue in good faith negotiations for the early conclusion of a universal treaty on general and complete disarmament under effective international control and strive to adopt appropriate measures to reduce international tensions and strengthen confidence among States.

• All States shall comply in good faith with their obligations under the generally recognized principles and rules of international law with respect to the maintenance of international peace and security, and shall endeavour to make the United Nations security system based on the Charter more effective.

• Every State has the duty to refrain from organizing or encouraging the organization of irregular forces or armed bands including mercenaries, for incursion into the territory of another State.

• Every State has the duty to refrain from organizing, instigating, assisting or participating in acts of civil strife or terrorist acts in another State or acquiescing in organized activities within its territory directed towards the commission of such acts, when the acts referred to in the present paragraph involve a threat or use of force.

• Every State shall settle its international disputes with other States by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered.

• States shall accordingly seek early and just settlement of their international disputes by negotiation, inquiry, mediation, conciliation, arbitration, judicial settlement, resort to regional agencies or arrangements or other peaceful means of their choice. In seeking such a settlement the parties shall agree upon such peaceful means as may be appropriate to the circumstances and nature of the dispute.

• The parties to a dispute have the duty, in the event of failure to reach a solution by any one of the above peaceful means, to continue to seek a settlement of the dispute by other peaceful means agreed upon by them.

That is all there is to it.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[aris2chat]

You know, I hear a lot of calls for mourning, sympathy and solidarity with Jewish dead.
That seems very strange to me.

The Holocaust for instance. We are constantly reminded that 6 million or so Jews died at the hands of organised murderers of Nazi Germany. Well, I can see that is a blow to the tradition, diversity and continuity of Judaism, but so what? It is just another slightly unhinged sky-pixie worshipping cult, like Christianity and Islam. Well, ok, I happen to think there is a deal of wisdom in such spiritual traditions too, but the point is its an institution, with good and bad, but is and institution.

The thing to mourn, to show solidarity with are 6 million human beings who were murdered. Not 6 million Jews. It would be like mourning 3 million females, and rarely mentioning the males. Or vice versa. Or counting how many plumbers there were, and just mourning them.

Its an odd custom we have here.

If that is what you want then you can mourn for the 60 million, or so, people that died during WWII on all sides.
I don't think many none germans would more the nazis, but they were people too.
I'm sure those who suffering and died at their hand do not think of them as people but rather monsters.

While you are at it mourn for the billions killed or died through out the history of man, or go back to the first life form that existed on this planet and you can mourn the billions or trillions, etc.

When people mourn, it is not for the dead, but for themself, feeling the loss and emptyness of being without them. When they mourn for a group like the holocaust victims it is for the loss those people that were part of their family nation could have contributed to the world. For the loss of what they could have been.

The dead are gone, tears will not bring them back. Jews do not really have a heaven and hell for the dead, till the end of times. The dead are just in a limbo void waiting. For those of the holocaust, they have suffered such that they might have journeyed to be closer to god already, even though many of the bodied were incinerated. It's like there being an exception for jews who were tattooed by the nazis being able to enjoy entering the pearly gates as well.

Mourning is a matter or remembering those who have left and the life they lived. NY has a new museum for the victims so the individuals, or the group, can be remembered and lessons taken from the tragedy.

 

[marsnow]

The Palestinian issue is not directly tied to spying imo. The status of Palestinians is irrelevant to US national security as long as we are not promoting it directly.

 

[marsnow]

If that is what you want then you can mourn for the 60 million, or so, people that died during WWII on all sides.

Yes quite. It was a human tragedy.

I do mourn for the billions who have been lost in all of human history. They survived so we could be here. Pretty epic actually.

 

[aris2chat]

I really really don't get Israel on this one.

A nuclear weapon can be two things. A highly effective deterrent, or a method to destroy very many people and a significant amount of land, with non-combatants impacted for decades.

To have the nukes and keep them secret meant their only used could be for a surprise attack.

Wow! Is it really the case that Israel wanted to engineer a situation where it could carry out a nuclear surprise attack on its enemies? Talk about an immoral nation!

When you want to change things you do them from the inside.

Just like you don't appreciate people telling your secrets from inside in America, we don't appreciate them telling things which are not always based on truths, from Israel

Israel if wished could launch whatever, it could by now, it didn't because it knows things don't work this way. Trying to pain it like we're to launch a bomb on countries of populations is stupid and not true.

That's precisely how it gets done. What a bright young lady you are! As for Israeli spies. G-d bless them, keep them and make them prosper in everything they put their hand to. I do mean EVERYTHING.

OK, so spying is rude. Taking information from someone is stealing. Not all information should be available to the general public, secrets have their purpose. But, critical information between friends should not be withheld. Unless it will harm the friend by knowing, secrets are usually shared between friends, and is should be between friendly nations. If, due to expenses, secrets can be purchased, that too can be an alternative.
Secrets sold to someone who can use the information to do harm is wrong. You don't let an enemy know a vulnerability that can injure you in any way.

It rather depends on how the information is analyzed and used. You don't want to start a panic for a maybe threat, but you want people to be prepared for those things that are naturally harmful. Cautious and prepared, but not scared.

If the US or UK spy on everyone, and so many potential enemies spy on the US, is spying on friends all that unusual? It is just protecting your butt.

Selling the secrets to an enemy as ransom to save a million people is understandable especially after 6 million had so recently been wiped from the global map. It was a desperate attempt to save a species from becoming extinct. Why are humans less than saving an endangered animal species? We assign nature preserves and parks to protect a species, why not a nation of people that were nearly exterminated?

OK, not allowing extermination of ants that plague a strip mall is going to extremes. I don't understand the reasoning of PETA. But saving endangered humans should be a reasonable thing that all humanity can and should try to do, be they african tribal nations, a small group of pygmies in the Indonesians islands or a nation of jews that have been trying to get home for millennia.

 

[montelatici]

Through March 17 of this year only 18 have been killed and only about 100 injured. So that's only about 6 a month. It must be ok, then.

So far in 2014, 18 Gaza Palestinians have been killed and 110 injured in Israeli attacks | Mondoweiss

 

[aris2chat]

1948:
Israel attacks first.
1967:
Israel attacks first.
1973:
Egypt attacks first.

2 out of three ain't bad.

I know, I know. The pre-emptive argument. But that is mostly just bollocks, of course.

rewriting history to suit yourself?

 

[Phoenall]

No, your evasion of the topic is "Two Wrongs make a right"

Your sole purpose in bringing this to the board was to enhance your standing as an ANTI SEMITIC ISLAMONAZO PROPAGANDIST.

It is simply the fact that the worlds biggest spies are in no position to cry when the tables are turned and their secrets are stolen and used to undercut their profits. Far too long have American companies kept "best practise" as their domain and had the rest of the world playing catch up. They don't like it when another company invents a process that makes them have to play catch up.

Did you read the OP? I seriously doubt it. That foreign country said they would not spy on the U.S. anymore after 9/11. That turned out to be a lie

So which state department was spied on by Israel, or was it industrial espionage carried out by private companies ?

As far as I could see in your initial post you manipulated and twisted the facts and told a bare faced LIE.

 

[thanatos144]

Your sole purpose in bringing this to the board was to enhance your standing as an ANTI SEMITIC ISLAMONAZO PROPAGANDIST.

It is simply the fact that the worlds biggest spies are in no position to cry when the tables are turned and their secrets are stolen and used to undercut their profits. Far too long have American companies kept "best practise" as their domain and had the rest of the world playing catch up. They don't like it when another company invents a process that makes them have to play catch up.

Did you read the OP? I seriously doubt it. That foreign country said they would not spy on the U.S. anymore after 9/11. That turned out to be a lie

So which state department was spied on by Israel, or was it industrial espionage carried out by private companies ?

As far as I could see in your initial post you manipulated and twisted the facts and told a bare faced LIE.

It is his mo

tapatalk post

 

[Phoenall]

Through March 17 of this year only 18 have been killed and only about 100 injured. So that's only about 6 a month. It must be ok, then.

So far in 2014, 18 Gaza Palestinians have been killed and 110 injured in Israeli attacks | Mondoweiss

Yet if the Palestinians followed some simple INTERNATIONAL LAWS the numbers would have been greatly reduced and not one civilian would have been murdered by hamas. Yes MURDERED because ignore INTERNATIONAL LAW in regards to protecting your civilians is MURDER. Were are the police to arrest the militia who set up in civilian areas, were are the shelters to protect the women and children in case of an attack. So in fact according to International Law not one civilian has been killed in Israeli attacks, they have been murdered by hamas who use them as HUMAN SHIELDS

 

[aris2chat]

Through March 17 of this year only 18 have been killed and only about 100 injured. So that's only about 6 a month. It must be ok, then.

So far in 2014, 18 Gaza Palestinians have been killed and 110 injured in Israeli attacks | Mondoweiss

Yet if the Palestinians followed some simple INTERNATIONAL LAWS the numbers would have been greatly reduced and not one civilian would have been murdered by hamas. Yes MURDERED because ignore INTERNATIONAL LAW in regards to protecting your civilians is MURDER. Were are the police to arrest the militia who set up in civilian areas, were are the shelters to protect the women and children in case of an attack. So in fact according to International Law not one civilian has been killed in Israeli attacks, they have been murdered by hamas who use them as HUMAN SHIELDS

And hamas are sticklers for following international law in their attacks on civilians. They also operating fighters bases and firing weapons from civilian neighborhoods
How can attacking a school bus of girls that were visiting Hebron be permitted? What international laws permits that?

 

[montelatici]

Are there any places in Gaza where civilians don't live? It is like the Warsaw Ghetto, there is no room, they are being starved and isolated. Unlike the Warsaw Ghetto, the Nazis did not have support from the Americans and other Europeans as Israel has. Essentially, the Americans and Europeans have given Israeli Jews the right to starve and beat down the non-Jews until they submit. But, they won't submit. That's the rub. Nice people those Israeli Jews, they learned from their former oppressors.