US Attorney General Eric Holder confirms government has right to murder U.S. citizens

Octoldit

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Sep 8, 2008
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Source: US Attorney General Eric Holder confirms government has right to murder U.S. citizens anywhere, anytime, without legal review

Attorney General Eric Holder, Jr., says the U.S. Constitution does not protect American citizens who may be plotting to kill other Americans via terrorism.

In a speech at Northwestern University School of Law in Chicago this week, Washington Post: Breaking News, World, US, DC News & Analysis and could therefore be targeted legally.

"Any decision to use lethal force against a United States citizen -- even one intent on murdering Americans and who has become an operational leader of al-Qaeda in a foreign land -- is among the gravest that government leaders can face," Holder said, no doubt before scores of future lawyers, some of whom may eventually work for the federal government someday. "The American people can be -- and deserve to be -- assured that actions taken in their defense are consistent with their values and their laws."

Holder said anyone deemed to pose an "imminent threat" to other Americans and who could not otherwise be reasonably captured could face the business end of a sniper or drone-launched missile, or any number of other killing techniques. Critical factors that would result in such a decision include a "relevant window of opportunity to act, the possible harm that missing the window would cause to civilians and the likelihood of heading off future disastrous attacks against the United States." Holder went onto say the president is not bound by the Constitution to delay assassinations of American citizens until some "theoretical end stage of planning -- when the precise time, place and manner of an attack become clear," The Washington Post reported.

"Given the nature of how terrorists act and where they tend to hide, it may not always be feasible to capture a U.S. citizen terrorist who presents an imminent threat of violent attack," Holder said.

Justifying the indefensible

Though he didn't mention anyone by name, Holder's speech appeared to be aimed at the death of Anwar al-Awlaki, a senior al Qaeda leader in Yemen who was killed by a U.S. drone strike in September.

Since then, the Obama administration - the same one that The New York Times - Breaking News, World News & Multimedia - has rightfully been under increased pressure to explain it's legal position regarding the targeted killing of American citizens, regardless of what they are allegedly planning to do, without affording them a trial.

Hina Shamsi, director of the ACLU's (American Civil Liberties Union) National Security Project, said Holder's comments are flat-out dangerous, and though it was supposedly an attempt by the administration to be more transparent, the speech "is ultimately a defense of the government's chillingly broad claimed authority to conduct targeted killings of civilians, including American citizens."

In comments to USA Today, Shamsi continued, "Few things are as dangerous to American liberty as the proposition that the government should be able to kill citizens anywhere in the world on the basis of legal standards and evidence that are never submitted to a court, either before or after the fact."

Others maintain such assassinations violate international legal conduct as well.

"Relevant international law does not permit targeted killing far from battle zones," Mary Ellen O'Connell, a law professor at the University of Notre Dame, told the paper.

Constitutional hypocrisy

Holder defended the administration's position, essentially by changing the argument to one Obama used to criticize.

"The Constitution's guarantee of due process is ironclad, and it is essential, but ... it does not require judicial approval before the president may use force abroad against a senior operational leader of a foreign terrorist organization with which the United States is at war, even if that individual happens to be a U.S. citizen," Holder said.

The position that Obama is taking now - and his attorney general is defending - is that the country has a right to protect itself against its enemies which is exactly the position taken by the previous Bush administration, and one that Obama, as a U.S. senator and presidential candidate, routinely criticized.

The one major difference is, the Bush administration never targeted and killed U.S. citizens. That "honor" lies squarely with Obama.

Sources for this article include:

Washington Post: Breaking News, World, US, DC News & Analysis

USA TODAY: Latest World and US News - USATODAY.com

NewsRoomAmerica - Top Stories

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/08/world/americas/08guantanamo.html

Fact-checking U.S. politics | PolitiFact

Learn more: US Attorney General Eric Holder confirms government has right to murder U.S. citizens anywhere, anytime, without legal review

LINK: Satan never reveals that the new world order is the living death in the lake of Fire.
 
Not really a surprise. Anyone can be called a terrorist as well. The next civil war/revolution will be the people against their government...its bound to happen.
 
The hypocrisy of the left is not surprising. They are, after all, the scum of the Earth.

But I have to say this....

When you take up arms against your Country and it's soldiers, civilians and citizens in a FOREIGN LAND and in an Anti-American, ARMED FOREIGN MILITARY GROUP.....

You have renounced your citizenship and the protections that go with it.

I'll shoot the piece of shit personally
 
The hypocrisy of the left is not surprising. They are, after all, the scum of the Earth.

But I have to say this....

When you take up arms against your Country and it's soldiers, civilians and citizens in a FOREIGN LAND and in an Anti-American, ARMED FOREIGN MILITARY GROUP.....

You have renounced your citizenship and the protections that go with it.

I'll shoot the piece of shit personally

Of course that is what I think most people would think. BUT, do you have a problem with it being the CIA that picks the targets? Don't you think that there should be at least some sort of tribunal or court that would try these people prior to their killing?

Now that doesn't mean we don't take action when there is an immediate threat. Take Waco for example, if the house would have been filled with nothing but adults and they were firing out windows then I say they get what they deserve. But when a 16 year old boy is blown to pieces I am not sure I am good with that especially when he was completely innocent.

The problem with the drone program is the targeting. Informants are paid to place GPS devices for tracking of the missiles. So does it matter to the informant if they are placed not exactly in the right place? As long as they are paid, maybe not. That is what I think happened to the 16 year old American. Someone didn't like Americans and had him taken out by missile.
 
Traitors who take up arms against our country in hostile foreign lands deserve no constitutional protection. Congress has given the president the authority. End of Story.
 
Traitors who take up arms against our country in hostile foreign lands deserve no constitutional protection. Congress has given the president the authority. End of Story.

Really, that is you come back? Where did Congress give the president the authority? I consider this a BS excuse when one considers how the liberal left treats Bush AFTER he got congressional approval for the war in Iraq.
 
it seems most people are missing the entire point here. Using "flexible definitons" of "imminent threat" and "terrorist" and a host of other legal terminology is the very essence of the rule of man vs. the rule of law.

Who gets to decide who is a "flexibly defined imminent threat"? Should that be the president and his assassination lists, the head of the CIA? The AG?

The point of due process is to be sure that when you accuse someone that you can prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. If instead, a few individuals through "classified" informtaion make such a determination without due process, you do not have the rule of law as the foundation for your operations. You have the rule of man. Which is, a very despotic and totalitarian view on justice in the first place. It means there is no rule of law. It means there is rule of man.

Regardless to the illogical calls that an individual gives up constitutional protection abroad who joins a "terrorist" group or is determined an "imminent threat". If you can change the definition of legal terms in order to execute plans and not have to justify (pun intended) those actions through due process.

It's no wonder this country is in the fuckin shitter.
 
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Traitors who take up arms against our country in hostile foreign lands deserve no constitutional protection. Congress has given the president the authority. End of Story.

Really, that is you come back? Where did Congress give the president the authority? I consider this a BS excuse when one considers how the liberal left treats Bush AFTER he got congressional approval for the war in Iraq.

[T]he President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons.

Lawfare ? Authorization for Use of Military Force 2001

Why are you supporting a terrorist traitor?
 
The hypocrisy of the left is not surprising. They are, after all, the scum of the Earth.

But I have to say this....

When you take up arms against your Country and it's soldiers, civilians and citizens in a FOREIGN LAND and in an Anti-American, ARMED FOREIGN MILITARY GROUP.....

You have renounced your citizenship and the protections that go with it.

I'll shoot the piece of shit personally

Wow. Someone make a note. Edgetho and I are on the same page on this matter! :eek:
 
Of course that is what I think most people would think. BUT, do you have a problem with it being the CIA that picks the targets? Don't you think that there should be at least some sort of tribunal or court that would try these people prior to their killing?

The National Security Council and the Chief Executive of the United States had the final say, not the CIA.

Anwar al-Awlaki was also tried in absentia in the Yemeni court system. His father also challenged the order in US courts, and was turned down.
 
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Check Jose Padilla...This happened 12 years ago when no one cared about citizens and rights out of fear of the Terrorist

Padilla was arrested in Chicago on May 8, 2002, on suspicion of plotting a radiological bomb ("dirty bomb") attack. He was detained as a material witness until June 9, 2002, when President George W. Bush designated him an enemy combatant and, arguing that he was not entitled to trial in civilian courts, had him transferred to a military prison. Padilla was held for three and a half years as an "enemy combatant." He was subjected to what were called enhanced interrogation techniques, regarded as torture under International law, including sleep deprivation, shackling and stress positions, the administration of psychotropic drugs, and solitary confinement.

After that liberal GWB said he didnt deserve court then tortured someone who was a citizen of the US, Did you think supporting this bullshit would make things better or worse?
 
Check Jose Padilla...This happened 12 years ago when no one cared about citizens and rights out of fear of the Terrorist

Padilla was arrested in Chicago on May 8, 2002, on suspicion of plotting a radiological bomb ("dirty bomb") attack. He was detained as a material witness until June 9, 2002, when President George W. Bush designated him an enemy combatant and, arguing that he was not entitled to trial in civilian courts, had him transferred to a military prison. Padilla was held for three and a half years as an "enemy combatant." He was subjected to what were called enhanced interrogation techniques, regarded as torture under International law, including sleep deprivation, shackling and stress positions, the administration of psychotropic drugs, and solitary confinement.

After that liberal GWB said he didnt deserve court then tortured someone who was a citizen of the US, Did you think supporting this bullshit would make things better or worse?

Now they are simply executed under Obama. Were you trying to make the deflection as a positive on your favorite administrations position?

Because it actually makes them look worse, not better.
 
Check Jose Padilla...This happened 12 years ago when no one cared about citizens and rights out of fear of the Terrorist

Padilla was arrested in Chicago on May 8, 2002, on suspicion of plotting a radiological bomb ("dirty bomb") attack. He was detained as a material witness until June 9, 2002, when President George W. Bush designated him an enemy combatant and, arguing that he was not entitled to trial in civilian courts, had him transferred to a military prison. Padilla was held for three and a half years as an "enemy combatant." He was subjected to what were called enhanced interrogation techniques, regarded as torture under International law, including sleep deprivation, shackling and stress positions, the administration of psychotropic drugs, and solitary confinement.

After that liberal GWB said he didnt deserve court then tortured someone who was a citizen of the US, Did you think supporting this bullshit would make things better or worse?

Now they are simply executed under Obama. Were you trying to make the deflection as a positive on your favorite administrations position?

Because it actually makes them look worse, not better.

No dummy I brought it up so you can see there was a start to this shit. A start that a bunch of fucktards supported then we end up here at the easily predictable place we are in now with Drone Strikes, Gitmo etc.

I want to know why this shit surprises any of you now? Only NOW?

Its extra funny because I didnt like the shit then and I dont now. You only started not liking it in 2009. Obama is expanding all the bullshit Bush started but you still call him a liberal. Hes the worst drone striking, gitmo keeping, stock market rocking liberal I've ever seen.

But dont let that get in the way lets pretend liberals like war and wall street. :cuckoo:
 
Check Jose Padilla...This happened 12 years ago when no one cared about citizens and rights out of fear of the Terrorist



After that liberal GWB said he didnt deserve court then tortured someone who was a citizen of the US, Did you think supporting this bullshit would make things better or worse?

Now they are simply executed under Obama. Were you trying to make the deflection as a positive on your favorite administrations position?

Because it actually makes them look worse, not better.

No dummy I brought it up so you can see there was a start to this shit. A start that a bunch of fucktards supported then we end up here at the easily predictable place we are in now with Drone Strikes, Gitmo etc.

I want to know why this shit surprises any of you now? Only NOW?

Its extra funny because I didnt like the shit then and I dont now. You only started not liking it in 2009. Obama is expanding all the bullshit Bush started but you still call him a liberal. Hes the worst drone striking, gitmo keeping, stock market rocking liberal I've ever seen.

But dont let that get in the way lets pretend liberals like war and wall street. :cuckoo:

So, you're admission here is that there is nothing at all different between democrats and republicans on the biggest issues of our civil liberties. I appreciate that. Try not to be a hypocrite about it at least for the remainder of the day. :redface:

Bush is a liberal,. Obama is a liberal. Both are huge government proponents and tireless Statists. There isn't anything different betwen the two partys on the most pressing and important issues of our time. Yet you side with one of them.

Strange, that.


As for my disdain. I was against the Bush administration before it was the cool thing to do. I've been at this railing against them all since he took office. Telling me when I started disliking LOLberal Statist policies is funny though. In a predictably pathetic kind of way.
 
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Now they are simply executed under Obama. Were you trying to make the deflection as a positive on your favorite administrations position?

Because it actually makes them look worse, not better.

No dummy I brought it up so you can see there was a start to this shit. A start that a bunch of fucktards supported then we end up here at the easily predictable place we are in now with Drone Strikes, Gitmo etc.

I want to know why this shit surprises any of you now? Only NOW?

Its extra funny because I didnt like the shit then and I dont now. You only started not liking it in 2009. Obama is expanding all the bullshit Bush started but you still call him a liberal. Hes the worst drone striking, gitmo keeping, stock market rocking liberal I've ever seen.

But dont let that get in the way lets pretend liberals like war and wall street. :cuckoo:

So, you're admission here is that there is nothing at all different between democrats and republicans on the biggest issues of our civil liberties. I appreciate that. Try not to be a hypocrite about it at least for the remainder of the day. :redface:

Bush is a liberal,. Obama is a liberal. Both are huge government proponents and tireless Statists. There isn't anything different betwen the two partys on the most pressing and important issues of our time. Yet you side with one of them.

Strange, that.


As for my disdain. I was against the Bush administration before it was the cool thing to do. I've been at this railing against them all since he took office. Telling me when I started disliking LOLberal Statist policies is funny though. In a predictably pathetic kind of way.

Yeah lets just start calling dogs felines and republicans liberals. Because Dogs have fur like cats! and Bush is a liberal because statist something which negates ALL OTHER REPUBLICAN QUALITIES.
 
Traitors who take up arms against our country in hostile foreign lands deserve no constitutional protection. Congress has given the president the authority. End of Story.

Really, that is you come back? Where did Congress give the president the authority? I consider this a BS excuse when one considers how the liberal left treats Bush AFTER he got congressional approval for the war in Iraq.

[T]he President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons.

Lawfare ? Authorization for Use of Military Force 2001

Why are you supporting a terrorist traitor?

Oh yeah, you mean the AUMF that Obama said this about: President Barack Obama called for the repeal of the AUMF, claiming that the law will "continue to grant presidents unbound powers more suited for traditional armed conflicts between nation states."

And he said this: Obama gave a speech at the National Defense University calling for the repeal of the law. Obama painted a rosy picture of the war in Afghanistan and al Qaeda, claiming that the former is "coming to an end" and the latter is "a shell of its former self."

Read more: US justifies Somalia raid under AUMF, which Obama seeks to repeal - The Long War Journal

Why do you support the killing of Americans without due process, doesn't that make you something like the Boston bombers?
 
Really, that is you come back? Where did Congress give the president the authority? I consider this a BS excuse when one considers how the liberal left treats Bush AFTER he got congressional approval for the war in Iraq.

[T]he President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons.

Lawfare ? Authorization for Use of Military Force 2001

Why are you supporting a terrorist traitor?

Oh yeah, you mean the AUMF that Obama said this about: President Barack Obama called for the repeal of the AUMF, claiming that the law will "continue to grant presidents unbound powers more suited for traditional armed conflicts between nation states."

And he said this: Obama gave a speech at the National Defense University calling for the repeal of the law. Obama painted a rosy picture of the war in Afghanistan and al Qaeda, claiming that the former is "coming to an end" and the latter is "a shell of its former self."

Read more: US justifies Somalia raid under AUMF, which Obama seeks to repeal - The Long War Journal

Why do you support the killing of Americans without due process, doesn't that make you something like the Boston bombers?

I support the President in the targeted killing that rat-bastard. Clear enough for you? It was completely legal according to the AUMF. If that traitor had turned himself in I would have supported him being prosecuted in a court of law.

How on earth did you poll vault to the Boston Bombers. Um, I support the prosecutor's going for the Death Penalty against the remaining brother.

How many times are you going to pretend you haven't had this conversation before?
 

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