USA Future if Conservative's Wet Dreams Come True: British currency falls

[RoadVirus]

USA Future if Conservative's Wet Dreams Come True on the Sequester: British currency falls

U.K. ratings downgrade to weigh on pound
Sterling falls below $1.515 following loss of Moody’s triple-A rating

British currency falls following U.K.’s loss of coveted triple-A rating from Moody’s and country’s determination to stand by current economic recovery measures.

U.K. ratings downgrade to weigh on pound - MarketWatch.com

When conservatives want to punish people in a time of distress this is the end result. This is not the time to insist on irresponsible budget cuts and to push austerity

You would prefer we spend until there is no way to recover, and society collapses into anarchy?

No, you spend on projects that make sense. Like reagan did. Like Clinton did. Like FDR did.

That'd be great if our government actually did spend money on worthwhile projects. Unfotunately, recent history has shown that is next to impossible.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

You would prefer we spend until there is no way to recover, and society collapses into anarchy?

No, you spend on projects that make sense. Like reagan did. Like Clinton did. Like FDR did.

That'd be great if our government actually did spend money on worthwhile projects. Unfotunately, recent history has shown that is next to impossible.

Obama's bankrupt projects that make sense!!!!

Evergreen Solar ($25 million)*
SpectraWatt ($500,000)*
Solyndra ($535 million)*
Beacon Power ($43 million)*
Nevada Geothermal ($98.5 million)
SunPower ($1.2 billion)
First Solar ($1.46 billion)
Babcock and Brown ($178 million)
EnerDel’s subsidiary Ener1 ($118.5 million)*
Amonix ($5.9 million)
Fisker Automotive ($529 million)
Abound Solar ($400 million)*
A123 Systems ($279 million)*
Willard and Kelsey Solar Group ($700,981)*
Johnson Controls ($299 million)
Brightsource ($1.6 billion)
ECOtality ($126.2 million)
Raser Technologies ($33 million)*
Energy Conversion Devices ($13.3 million)*
Mountain Plaza, Inc. ($2 million)*
Olsen’s Crop Service and Olsen’s Mills Acquisition Company ($10 million)*
Range Fuels ($80 million)*
Thompson River Power ($6.5 million)*
Stirling Energy Systems ($7 million)*
Azure Dynamics ($5.4 million)*
GreenVolts ($500,000)
Vestas ($50 million)
LG Chem’s subsidiary Compact Power ($151 million)
Nordic Windpower ($16 million)*
Navistar ($39 million)
Satcon ($3 million)*
Konarka Technologies Inc. ($20 million)*
Mascoma Corp. ($100 million)
*Denotes companies that have filed for bankruptcy=

 

[Rshermr]

No, you spend on projects that make sense. Like reagan did. Like Clinton did. Like FDR did.

That'd be great if our government actually did spend money on worthwhile projects. Unfotunately, recent history has shown that is next to impossible.

Obama's bankrupt projects that make sense!!!!

Evergreen Solar ($25 million)*
SpectraWatt ($500,000)*
Solyndra ($535 million)*
Beacon Power ($43 million)*
Nevada Geothermal ($98.5 million)
SunPower ($1.2 billion)
First Solar ($1.46 billion)
Babcock and Brown ($178 million)
EnerDel’s subsidiary Ener1 ($118.5 million)*
Amonix ($5.9 million)
Fisker Automotive ($529 million)
Abound Solar ($400 million)*
A123 Systems ($279 million)*
Willard and Kelsey Solar Group ($700,981)*
Johnson Controls ($299 million)
Brightsource ($1.6 billion)
ECOtality ($126.2 million)
Raser Technologies ($33 million)*
Energy Conversion Devices ($13.3 million)*
Mountain Plaza, Inc. ($2 million)*
Olsen’s Crop Service and Olsen’s Mills Acquisition Company ($10 million)*
Range Fuels ($80 million)*
Thompson River Power ($6.5 million)*
Stirling Energy Systems ($7 million)*
Azure Dynamics ($5.4 million)*
GreenVolts ($500,000)
Vestas ($50 million)
LG Chem’s subsidiary Compact Power ($151 million)
Nordic Windpower ($16 million)*
Navistar ($39 million)
Satcon ($3 million)*
Konarka Technologies Inc. ($20 million)*
Mascoma Corp. ($100 million)
*Denotes companies that have filed for bankruptcy=

So ed posts another of his famous lists. Straight from one of scores of bat shit crazy con web sites that have posted this list of 39 alternative energy failures. Or so they say. Here is eds post:

Obama's bankrupt projects that make sense!!!!

Evergreen Solar ($25 million)*
SpectraWatt ($500,000)*
Solyndra ($535 million)*
Beacon Power ($43 million)*
Nevada Geothermal ($98.5 million)
SunPower ($1.2 billion)
First Solar ($1.46 billion)
Babcock and Brown ($178 million)
EnerDel’s subsidiary Ener1 ($118.5 million)*
Amonix ($5.9 million)
Fisker Automotive ($529 million)
Abound Solar ($400 million)*
A123 Systems ($279 million)*
Willard and Kelsey Solar Group ($700,981)*
Johnson Controls ($299 million)
Brightsource ($1.6 billion)
ECOtality ($126.2 million)
Raser Technologies ($33 million)*
Energy Conversion Devices ($13.3 million)*
Mountain Plaza, Inc. ($2 million)*
Olsen’s Crop Service and Olsen’s Mills Acquisition Company ($10 million)*
Range Fuels ($80 million)*
Thompson River Power ($6.5 million)*
Stirling Energy Systems ($7 million)*
Azure Dynamics ($5.4 million)*
GreenVolts ($500,000)
Vestas ($50 million)
LG Chem’s subsidiary Compact Power ($151 million)
Nordic Windpower ($16 million)*
Navistar ($39 million)
Satcon ($3 million)*
Konarka Technologies Inc. ($20 million)*
Mascoma Corp. ($100 million)
*Denotes companies that have filed for bankruptcy=

So, what are the problems with this conservative dogma that ed has posted. Here are a few:
1. The dollar amounts are LOAN GUARANTEE amounts, not what has been loaned. What has been loaned is MUCH less. Not even close to these numbers in most cases.
2. What loans are exercised against the guarantee's are exactly that: They are LOANS. And they tend to get repaid, in many cases.
3. The companies listed are quite often in much different condition than the list would suggest. Many, for instance, that are listed as bankrupt are not, in fact, bankrupt.
4. Consider the source. Look for yourself. There are no sites without agendas posting this list.
5. It is only 39 companies, out of over 1,300, which have received loan guarantees. That makes the failure rate MUCH lower than that for companies in general. So, what it really says is that the obama program create incentives for these companies looks quite successful. Under a 1% failure rate for mostly new companies is incredible.
6. The stakes are high. If a large number of these companies succeed, then our dependence on foreign oil could be cut a good deal.

Here is an example of one of ed's companies, Abound Solar, which ed shows as a $400M loss:

Abound Solar: The manufacturer of thin-film solar panels received a $400 million DOE stimulus loan guarantee to build two factories -- one outside Kokomo, Indiana and another outside of Denver.
Abound drew down $70 million of the grant to build the Denver factory. Abound declared bankruptcy in June amid strong competition and the collapsing price of solar panels.
Its assets are being auctioned off, and DOE is expected to lose to $40 to $60 million on the deal.
- See more at: Obama's alternative energy bankruptcies - Oct. 22, 2012

So Ed says $400M, but the facts say $40 to $60M. Even ed should be able to see the difference.

So, in general, the program to stimulate alternative fuels is not popular with the "drill baby drill" crowd, but based on normal financial analysis, is far from a failure. It is like all new technology, a gamble. One that China is taking big time. And one that Germany and others are in big time also. But Ed, and other cons who want to support the agenda of big energy, are perfectly willing to lie like crazy to get anyone they can to believe that anything but drilling is a bad idea. And Ed is perfectly willing, always, to lie to support his agenda.

But a spokesman for the Energy Department said that agency has dozens of programs that funded over 1,300 companies in the renewable energy space, and that less than 1% have gone bankrupt - See more at: Obama's alternative energy bankruptcies - Oct. 22, 2012

1% is not only not bad, it is remarkable. My guess is that ed will not admit it, though.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

USA Future if Conservative's Wet Dreams Come True on the Sequester: British currency falls

U.K. ratings downgrade to weigh on pound
Sterling falls below $1.515 following loss of Moody’s triple-A rating

British currency falls following U.K.’s loss of coveted triple-A rating from Moody’s and country’s determination to stand by current economic recovery measures.

U.K. ratings downgrade to weigh on pound - MarketWatch.com

When conservatives want to punish people in a time of distress this is the end result. This is not the time to insist on irresponsible budget cuts and to push austerity

So what do we do? We just keep on spending and hope it makes things better?

Sophomoric: False Choice

 

[Rshermr]

Ed, you are lying again. Here is your post:
But, maybe you can show a time when cutting taxes in this country, during a bad economy with high unemployment, actually HELPED.

too stupid!! Barry cut payroll taxes and it helped, he just raised them and it killed retail sales!! How can such obvious things be over your head??

Obama did back dropping the payroll tax rate, but it was done by congress. He signed the bill. The bill hit its end date, and though he asked congress to keep the tax rate unchanged, congress did not act. Neither dems not republicans. And, me boy, of course it helped. It was a tax decrease ONLY to the working class. Dipshit. It was not an income tax decrease across the board or to the wealthy specifically.

Kennedy cut capital gains to get the bad economy moving and all agree, it worked!

Again, you are lying. Kennedy lowered taxes during a GOOD economy with LOW unemployment. No one disagrees with that kind of tax decrease, me poor con tool. The question was when a tax decrease helped in a BAD economy, not a good one.
To be specific, the tax act was supported by Kennedy and put into law after his death, signed by Johnson. The point is, the UE rate was 5.4% when the law went into effect. Please try to understand the question when you attempt to answer it. I highlighted it above for your enjoyment.
http://www.davemanuel.com/historical-unemployment-rates-in-the-united-states.php

THe less government spends the more the economy can grow. THe more you take out of the private economy the more it shrinks!!!

But, you can not show a single time that, during a bad economy, lowering taxes has helped. You did not try Reagan, who was the only pres ignorant enough to try it. Remember?? He lowered taxes greatly in 1981 and within 19 months the unemployment rate went from 7.3% to 10.8%. And the deficit went up like a rocket. Then, he raised taxes 11 times and borrowed like crazy, tripling the national debt. And spent on stimulus. And the economy got better, and unemployment decreased.

Would you choke a man to help him breath?? Of course not; then you wouldn't tax an economy to help it grow!!

It is not the taxes, stupid. It is the stimulus spending that the taxes fund. Which worked great for FDR, and for Clinton, and for Reagan. No one was complaining when Reagan improved the economy. No one complained when Clinton had the best economy in the century. Just cons, who always think tax decreases are the answer. Like when W lowered taxes and we had the worst recession since the great depression.

Nice try, ed. Now, want to try again WITHOUT lying???

 

[Dot Com]

austerity, by itself, isn't the answer. Someone needs to convey that to the Repub House.

 

[logical4u]

USA Future if Conservative's Wet Dreams Come True on the Sequester: British currency falls

U.K. ratings downgrade to weigh on pound
Sterling falls below $1.515 following loss of Moody’s triple-A rating

British currency falls following U.K.’s loss of coveted triple-A rating from Moody’s and country’s determination to stand by current economic recovery measures.

U.K. ratings downgrade to weigh on pound - MarketWatch.com

When conservatives want to punish people in a time of distress this is the end result. This is not the time to insist on irresponsible budget cuts and to push austerity

You would prefer we spend until there is no way to recover, and society collapses into anarchy?

False dilemma
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A false dilemma (also called false dichotomy, the either-or fallacy, fallacy of false choice, black-and/or-white thinking, or the fallacy of exhaustive hypotheses) is a type of informal fallacy that involves a situation in which limited alternatives are considered, when in fact there is at least one additional option. The options may be a position that is between two extremes (such as when there are shades of grey) or may be completely different alternatives. The opposite of this fallacy is argument to moderation.

False dilemma can arise intentionally, when fallacy is used in an attempt to force a choice (such as, in some contexts, the assertion that "if you are not with us, you are against us"). But the fallacy can also arise simply by accidental omission of additional options rather than by deliberate deception.

You want our standard of living to match Greece, Zimbabwe (two countries that ignored financial messes)?

 

[logical4u]

USA Future if Conservative's Wet Dreams Come True on the Sequester: British currency falls

U.K. ratings downgrade to weigh on pound
Sterling falls below $1.515 following loss of Moody’s triple-A rating

British currency falls following U.K.’s loss of coveted triple-A rating from Moody’s and country’s determination to stand by current economic recovery measures.

U.K. ratings downgrade to weigh on pound - MarketWatch.com

When conservatives want to punish people in a time of distress this is the end result. This is not the time to insist on irresponsible budget cuts and to push austerity

You would prefer we spend until there is no way to recover, and society collapses into anarchy?

No, you spend on projects that make sense. Like reagan did. Like Clinton did. Like FDR did. You do not cut taxes, like reagan did in the beginning, creating his own economic disaster.
But, maybe you can show a time when cutting taxes in this country, during a bad economy with high unemployment, actually HELPED. Or, to shorten it, when cutting gov spending during such an economy helped. Then, and only then, will you be worth listening to.

"Spend on projects that make sense". Please show where this has been done under this administration. There have been at least three "stimulus" plans based on "infrastructure" improvements; so far, those plans have not been implemented. The problem: gov't thinks that it "knows" what people need, when the "people" would use the money in a more efficient way.

 

[emptystep]

This is not the time to insist on irresponsible budget cuts and to push austerity

too stupid!! we're $16 trillion in debt with $100 trillion in unfunded liabilities. When is the time for budget cuts?? When we're like Greece??


See why we say a liberal will be slow??

If you are not smart enough to be here why are you here???

I started to read this post. Read the first line. Read the second line. Started to read the third line. Guess who!? I looked up to see who the author was. Yep, you guessed it.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

This is not the time to insist on irresponsible budget cuts and to push austerity

too stupid!! we're $16 trillion in debt with $100 trillion in unfunded liabilities. When is the time for budget cuts?? When we're like Greece??


See why we say a liberal will be slow??

If you are not smart enough to be here why are you here???

I started to read this post. Read the first line. Read the second line. Started to read the third line. Guess who!? I looked up to see who the author was. Yep, you guessed it.

We're $16 trillion in debt with $100 trillion in unfunded liabilities. When is the time for austerity or budget cuts?? When we're like Greece??