Was Ross Perot Right

[nodoginnafight]

I vote "other." Unfortunately that option was not avaialable.
NAFTA was not a joke. The notion that the U.S. economy can compete internationally while paying $40 an hour for unskilled, manufacturing labor is the joke. You can't pay more than something is worth just to maintain an artificially inflated lifestyle.
The U.S. economy needs to evolve and carve out a new niche in the international market place based on technological innovation - especially in the energy field.

Ahh yes sounds nice, but isn't gonna happen in the next 5 years.

Instead our standard of living is going to decline as it has been for 10 years or so, but living on credit and cheap Chinese imports dulled the impact up till a year and a half ago or so.

We don't care about the next 5 years. We need to position ourselves for the next 50 years

I agree. I think the "quick fix" or "take a pill" approach doesn't work in this instance. A quick fix can avert a crisis - like treating an acute symptom - but imho it does nothing to treat the chronic disease.

 

[uscitizen]

I vote "other." Unfortunately that option was not avaialable.
NAFTA was not a joke. The notion that the U.S. economy can compete internationally while paying $40 an hour for unskilled, manufacturing labor is the joke. You can't pay more than something is worth just to maintain an artificially inflated lifestyle.
The U.S. economy needs to evolve and carve out a new niche in the international market place based on technological innovation - especially in the energy field.

Ahh yes sounds nice, but isn't gonna happen in the next 5 years.

Instead our standard of living is going to decline as it has been for 10 years or so, but living on credit and cheap Chinese imports dulled the impact up till a year and a half ago or so.

We don't care about the next 5 years. We need to position ourselves for the next 50 years

And what we do in the next 5 years will pretty much decide how the next 50 goes.

 

[Navy1960]

US manufacturing jobs are gone and they are not coming back. The US cannot afford to keep looking back, we need to pursue the jobs of the future not the jobs of the past.

Sounds nice, however is just nice sounding rhetoric.
What jobs?
We are the mobile workforce of the 21'st century. Temps with no benefits.

Service sector jobs slinging burgers? Retail sales clerks?
I guess we will have our economy 90% dependent on consumer spending.

What are the new jobs of the 21st century?

The answer is "Who the hell knows?" thats what we have to find out. If you think regaining assembly line jobs is the wave of the future you are sadly mistaken.

What is the "next big thing"?

Defense jobs
"Green" Jobs
Medical research and medical care
Transportation

The US needs to be ahead of the curve in creating new technologies. Moaning because we no longer control the old technologies accomplishes nothing

I have news for you Defense has for years been moving that direction and the recent fight between Boeing and EADS over a several billion dollar USAF Tanker program is just a hi-light of that. One other thing that come to mind is the new Presidential helicopter that is a European built helicopter, so yes Marine One will eventually be a European built helicopter known as the VH-71. The Air Force is even considering the new Airbus A-380 as an eventual replacement for Airforce One. So Defense is going the way of many other things, "we don't make it we just buy it" and will eventually be added to that long list that has left. Interesting in the Green Jobs sector, as many see this is a saving grace , but many do not realize that United States is very far behind in these technologies and is a large comsumer of them as well. If you look at the largest producers of Solar, Wind, and yes even Nuclear you will not even see the US among them. In fact the United States cannot even produce its own containment vessels for new nuclear reactos any longer as the technology to do that has long ago left here. So if we plan on building new Nuclear power plants we much purchase them from Japan. Our nation better become a producer nation again soon,, and advocating legacy as well as new production here is better than what the eventual alternative will be, because one day in the future after this nation has sold it's soul and is unable to produce anything, a good job will be selling blankets on the side of the road to Chinese tourists. as we will become a very large 3rd world nation.

 

[nodoginnafight]

Navy - I agree with what you say about nuclear. IMHO it is the bridge technology that will carry us into the new generation of renewable energy - but I don't think it is the new generation itself. And I agree that the French (among others) seem to be far ahead in their approach to nuclear.

IMHO - we need a public-private partnership a lot like what we saw with NASA in the 60s only this time instead of setting a goal to reach the moon (a goal that we didn't have the technology to achieve at the time) the goal should be to create sustainable, renewable energy.

And just like NASA spurred billions in spin-off technology and commercial profits - this effort would achieve the same - even more so. If we corner the market on the next wave of energy technology - our economy comes back in a huge way.

just MHO.

 

[Sunni Man]

a good job will be selling blankets on the side of the road to Chinese tourists. as we will become a very large 3rd world nation.

The label on the blankets will read, "Made in Mexico"

 

[Navy1960]

Many people see NASA as this big money hole that produces no results and lately with the managers of NASA and their clear lack of long term vision I can't blame them. That said I agree completely nodog, the new consetllation program much like apollo would bring a whole new set of technologies both public and private to this nation if it is done correctly. Many people are just simply not aware of the sheer number of things that the space program has brought about and a program of domestic shared production in a new program would do wonders in my opinion. As for Nuclear, I see it as a bridge technology that if implemented correctly can rid our nation of its need to suck up to oil barons who provide the weapons with our financing to terrorist groups. It will also allow new technologies to mature to a rate where they can eventually overtake Nuclear as the primary source of energy for the nation. Just a thought here. if this nation built 50 new plants , in terms of jobs, both long and short term, energy production, and CO2 reduction would that not be a real Stimulus package ? add to that all public sector vechicle must be hybrid electric and move to a % of hybrid electric transportation along with Nuclear production, then our own domestic oil production looks more attractive at suiting our needs. There are many things we can do as a nation, it just take people with the vision to get them done which we seem to be lacking in great quantity on both sides of the isle.

 

[Mott The Hoople]

Of course he was right, he was a businessman who knew what he was talking about, which is why I voted for him twice.

Yea, I made that same mistake too! LOL I liked Ross but it was a big mistake. Particularly the second time.

 

[nodoginnafight]

Many people see NASA as this big money hole that produces no results and lately with the managers of NASA and their clear lack of long term vision I can't blame them. That said I agree completely nodog, the new consetllation program much like apollo would bring a whole new set of technologies both public and private to this nation if it is done correctly. Many people are just simply not aware of the sheer number of things that the space program has brought about and a program of domestic shared production in a new program would do wonders in my opinion. As for Nuclear, I see it as a bridge technology that if implemented correctly can rid our nation of its need to suck up to oil barons who provide the weapons with our financing to terrorist groups. It will also allow new technologies to mature to a rate where they can eventually overtake Nuclear as the primary source of energy for the nation. Just a thought here. if this nation built 50 new plants , in terms of jobs, both long and short term, energy production, and CO2 reduction would that not be a real Stimulus package ? add to that all public sector vechicle must be hybrid electric and move to a % of hybrid electric transportation along with Nuclear production, then our own domestic oil production looks more attractive at suiting our needs. There are many things we can do as a nation, it just take people with the vision to get them done which we seem to be lacking in great quantity on both sides of the isle.

Navy - we don't always see eye-to-eye 100% but on this - I couldn't agree more.

 

[Darkwind]

I vote "other." Unfortunately that option was not avaialable.
NAFTA was not a joke. The notion that the U.S. economy can compete internationally while paying $40 an hour for unskilled, manufacturing labor is the joke. You can't pay more than something is worth just to maintain an artificially inflated lifestyle.
The U.S. economy needs to evolve and carve out a new niche in the international market place based on technological innovation - especially in the energy field.

Ahh yes sounds nice, but isn't gonna happen in the next 5 years.

Instead our standard of living is going to decline as it has been for 10 years or so, but living on credit and cheap Chinese imports dulled the impact up till a year and a half ago or so.

We don't care about the next 5 years. We need to position ourselves for the next 50 years

Americans can't get past tomorrows reality show.

Lets get real here. Until we as a society get past this 'We are entitled to shit' mentality, our way of life will continue to decline.

We have kids out of high school who think they should be entering the work force at 50k a year. And when you tell them that they actually have to work for that 8.50 per hour, they get attitude.

 

[uscitizen]

Nafta, cafta = shaftya

 

[Sunni Man]

Many people see NASA as this big money hole that produces no results and lately with the managers of NASA and their clear lack of long term vision I can't blame them. That said I agree completely nodog, the new consetllation program much like apollo would bring a whole new set of technologies both public and private to this nation if it is done correctly. Many people are just simply not aware of the sheer number of things that the space program has brought about and a program of domestic shared production in a new program would do wonders in my opinion. As for Nuclear, I see it as a bridge technology that if implemented correctly can rid our nation of its need to suck up to oil barons who provide the weapons with our financing to terrorist groups. It will also allow new technologies to mature to a rate where they can eventually overtake Nuclear as the primary source of energy for the nation. Just a thought here. if this nation built 50 new plants , in terms of jobs, both long and short term, energy production, and CO2 reduction would that not be a real Stimulus package ? add to that all public sector vechicle must be hybrid electric and move to a % of hybrid electric transportation along with Nuclear production, then our own domestic oil production looks more attractive at suiting our needs. There are many things we can do as a nation, it just take people with the vision to get them done which we seem to be lacking in great quantity on both sides of the isle.

I once read that for every 1 dollar spent on NASA projects.

There is a 7 dollar return in the civilian business sector because of new technology invented by the various NASA programs.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

We have kids out of high school who think they should be entering the work force at 50k a year. And when you tell them that they actually have to work for that 8.50 per hour, they get attitude.

Shoot, no high school kid will get that $8.00 job. There are 250 out of work bank managers, construction secretaries and finance MBA's vying for it. And the reason they think they are "entitled" to a 50K a year job is that they graduated from college with 100K in debt, since their parents weren't, you know, millionaires. No high school kid expects that kind of money, come on!

 

[kyzr]

We have kids out of high school who think they should be entering the work force at 50k a year. And when you tell them that they actually have to work for that 8.50 per hour, they get attitude.

Shoot, no high school kid will get that $8.00 job. There are 250 out of work bank managers, construction secretaries and finance MBA's vying for it. And the reason they think they are "entitled" to a 50K a year job is that they graduated from college with 100K in debt, since their parents weren't, you know, millionaires. No high school kid expects that kind of money, come on!

H.S. kids used to be able to learn a trade or work in a factory and earn a nice living. If they had a union they had good benefits too. Now where do they work? We only need so many burger flippers.

Then we get to the college grads with that $100,000 student loan to repay. Where do they work? It used to be that factories needed accountants, engineers, lawyers, managers, sales people, etc. When a factory moves overseas we don't only lose blue-collar jobs, we lost millions of good paying white-collar jobs too.

 

[Polk]

I vote "other." Unfortunately that option was not avaialable.
NAFTA was not a joke. The notion that the U.S. economy can compete internationally while paying $40 an hour for unskilled, manufacturing labor is the joke. You can't pay more than something is worth just to maintain an artificially inflated lifestyle.
The U.S. economy needs to evolve and carve out a new niche in the international market place based on technological innovation - especially in the energy field.

Ahh yes sounds nice, but isn't gonna happen in the next 5 years.

Instead our standard of living is going to decline as it has been for 10 years or so, but living on credit and cheap Chinese imports dulled the impact up till a year and a half ago or so.

It's not going to decline. What is going to happen is it's not growing to grow as rapidly and the gap between ourselves and other nations is going to shrink. Of course, that was going to happen with or without NAFTA.

 

[Polk]

Ahh yes sounds nice, but isn't gonna happen in the next 5 years.

Instead our standard of living is going to decline as it has been for 10 years or so, but living on credit and cheap Chinese imports dulled the impact up till a year and a half ago or so.

We don't care about the next 5 years. We need to position ourselves for the next 50 years

Americans can't get past tomorrows reality show.

Lets get real here. Until we as a society get past this 'We are entitled to shit' mentality, our way of life will continue to decline.

We have kids out of high school who think they should be entering the work force at 50k a year. And when you tell them that they actually have to work for that 8.50 per hour, they get attitude.

Amen to that.

 

[Polk]

As for NAFTA, no, I don't think Perot was correct. NAFTA has been a boom for all three nations involved. People often focus on trade with Mexico, but we actually import more goods from Canada (of course, we already had a free trade agreement with Canada before NAFTA). The biggest problem has been totally unrelated to NAFTA: the rise of China. For all the "made in China" goods we think of, China wasn't our leading trading partner until pretty recently.

 

[Xenophon]

Of course he was right, he was a businessman who knew what he was talking about, which is why I voted for him twice.

Yea, I made that same mistake too! LOL I liked Ross but it was a big mistake. Particularly the second time.

Voting for the party machines, the uber douches Bush/Clinton/Dole would have been a mistake.

Voting for someone who actually had a workable plan of action to fix our problems was the right thing to do, its a shame more people didn't think so.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Yes Ross Perot was labelled as being "Crazy" by both political parties and their Media puppets for actually speaking truth on this and many other issues. Have you noticed that pattern of the two parties and their Media puppets labelling everyone as being "Crazy" if they don't tow the party-lines? Yes you're just so Crazy for actually wanting our politicians to follow our Constitution. Anyone who comes along as an Independent and doesn't tow the party-lines is immediately labelled "Crazy" and "Non-Credible." It's how both parties have hung onto power for so long. Both parties control the entire Media. It's impossible for an Independent Candidate to win at this point. Ross Perot was absolutely correct all those years ago while the two Party Candidates were absolutely wrong. Yea but he was just so "Crazy" right? What a sad scam.

 

[HUGGY]

US manufacturing jobs are gone and they are not coming back. The US cannot afford to keep looking back, we need to pursue the jobs of the future not the jobs of the past.

I have to take issue with your statement. Seldom is the national security angle explored here. Steel production among many more industries should have never been purged from our country and delegated to foreign countries with whom we will not allways agree with and in some possible scenerios might have serious conflic with.

We are mindless in the USA to forget the causes of WWII. The Japs were forced to attack us because we choked off thier suppies of steel and oil. Now we are in an age of information but still dependant strategically on the foundational industries that have been sent offshore. We sell our military secrets and innovation like it was chineeez take out.

Some of these strategic industries MUST be brought back home.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

No, Ross Perot wasn't right. He was a protectionist and wrongly blamed free trade, which NAFTA doesn't give us in the first place, for the economic problems caused by the government.