We Love Christians....

[Kondor3]

When the time comes, it will not be portrayed as thus.

It will be portrayed as a Final Settlement of Accounts between Israel and Palestine.

It will be portrayed as baseball's "Sucker's Walk" after losing the bat-toss.

It will be portrayed as mere Population Transfer.

The mixed-bag melange of ethnicities will not be cleansed.

The mixed-bag melange of ethnicities will merely be relocated.

Given relocation assistance, stake-money to start a new life, and, perhaps, a bit of wergeld as final compensation for their troubles.

It will be portrayed as the only remaining Road to Peace.

If you remove one of the Combatants, the War fizzles-out.

One of the Combatants will be removed, because they have repeatedly demonstrated that they will accept nothing less than complete control of the region formerly known as Old (pre-1948) Palestine, and because there is not enough left of Rump Palestine to make a viable country out of.

They will not be slaughtered or cleansed.

They will be relocated - moved out of the way, and paid-off, so that the rest of the world can get on with far more important business.

We will not have a direct hand.

Behind the scenes, however, we may very well pump support and funding to the Israelis, in pursuit of this lofty goal.

BTW...

My first loyalty is the the United States of America; her People, her Constitution, and her long-term best interests.

My interest in Israeli is merely that of someone wishing to help an ally who has a centuries -long history of getting their asses kicked and who have now re-discovered their identify and courage as a people and who are largely helping themselves, in order to resurrect their old homeland.

If Israel's interests and those of the United States ever substantively and overwhelmingly differ, I will side with the United States rather than Israel.

It's just that most folks do not perceive that those interests have entered upon divergent pathways.

Keep dreaming and keep hating. But, you seem to be happy that people you don't know were expelled from their land and homes just because they were Christians and Muslims instead of Jews. That's what I will never understand.

You have to forgive Kondor, recently released from an insane asylum with Phoenall, they got parts in a new version of Gilbert and Sullivan's HMS Pinafore...

Kondor sings, "I polished all me brass, never went to sea
And they made me admiral of the Queen's Navy!"

Let him dream and Limp his cannons.

Very nice, I'm sure.

What has this to do with the topic at hand?

Running out of material, little Snowflake?

 

[pbel]

Keep dreaming and keep hating. But, you seem to be happy that people you don't know were expelled from their land and homes just because they were Christians and Muslims instead of Jews. That's what I will never understand.

You have to forgive Kondor, recently released from an insane asylum with Phoenall, they got parts in a new version of Gilbert and Sullivan's HMS Pinafore...

Kondor sings, "I polished all me brass, never went to sea
And they made me admiral of the Queen's Navy!"

Let him dream and Limp his cannons.

Very nice, I'm sure.

What has this to do with the topic at hand?

Running out of material, little Snowflake?

Not to listen to a quack like you when you sing of Eretz Israel and the expulsion of people from their homes, that's on topic, LD!

 

[Kondor3]

You have to forgive Kondor, recently released from an insane asylum with Phoenall, they got parts in a new version of Gilbert and Sullivan's HMS Pinafore...

Kondor sings, "I polished all me brass, never went to sea
And they made me admiral of the Queen's Navy!"

Let him dream and Limp his cannons.

Very nice, I'm sure.

What has this to do with the topic at hand?

Running out of material, little Snowflake?

Not to listen to a quack like you when you sing of Eretz Israel and the expulsion of people from their homes, that's on topic, LD!

My commentary was a natural Israel-favoring alternative to the proposed American abandonment of Israel, and about as relevant.

As to quack status, well, that could very well be, but I'm comforted by the idea that I am good company, including those such as yourself whom appear to be suffering far more dramatically from that very same condition.

Your slip is showing, dearie...

Are we done yet, or do you have more spleen to vent before you drain that bottle?

 

[pbel]

Very nice, I'm sure.

What has this to do with the topic at hand?

Running out of material, little Snowflake?

Not to listen to a quack like you when you sing of Eretz Israel and the expulsion of people from their homes, that's on topic, LD!

My commentary was a natural Israel-favoring alternative to the proposed American abandonment of Israel, and about as relevant.

As to quack status, well, that could very well be, but I'm comforted by the idea that I am good company, including those such as yourself whom appear to be suffering far more dramatically from that very same condition as am I.

Your slip is showing, dearie...

Are we done yet, or do you have more spleen to vent?

I thought you would be thinking dresses and slips, do you have some on now? Sir Limp?

 

[Kondor3]

Not to listen to a quack like you when you sing of Eretz Israel and the expulsion of people from their homes, that's on topic, LD!

My commentary was a natural Israel-favoring alternative to the proposed American abandonment of Israel, and about as relevant.

As to quack status, well, that could very well be, but I'm comforted by the idea that I am good company, including those such as yourself whom appear to be suffering far more dramatically from that very same condition as am I.

Your slip is showing, dearie...

Are we done yet, or do you have more spleen to vent?

I thought you would be thinking dresses and slips, do you have some on now? Sir Limp?

No, I'm not wearing any.... not my thing... but I do, indeed, have some, set off to the side, for your trousseau, milady...

Although they will best be experienced once you've sobered-up...

Perhaps after we've elaborated further upon the Israel-Palestine conflict and its most likely outcome.

Wassa madda, sugar-britches, the conversation not going your way (again)?

Can't dominate the discussion?

Tsk, tsk, tsk...

Temper, temper...

 

[toastman]

You have to forgive Kondor, recently released from an insane asylum with Phoenall, they got parts in a new version of Gilbert and Sullivan's HMS Pinafore...

Kondor sings, "I polished all me brass, never went to sea
And they made me admiral of the Queen's Navy!"

Let him dream and Limp his cannons.

Very nice, I'm sure.

What has this to do with the topic at hand?

Running out of material, little Snowflake?

Not to listen to a quack like you when you sing of Eretz Israel and the expulsion of people from their homes, that's on topic, LD!

This coming from a guy who constantly talks about how Israel will be destroyed.

Pro Palestinian hypocrisy at its best

 

[pbel]

My commentary was a natural Israel-favoring alternative to the proposed American abandonment of Israel, and about as relevant.

As to quack status, well, that could very well be, but I'm comforted by the idea that I am good company, including those such as yourself whom appear to be suffering far more dramatically from that very same condition as am I.

Your slip is showing, dearie...

Are we done yet, or do you have more spleen to vent?

I thought you would be thinking dresses and slips, do you have some on now? Sir Limp?

No, I'm not wearing any.... not my thing... but I do, indeed, have some, set off to the side, for your trousseau, milady...

Although they will best be experienced once you've sobered-up...

Perhaps after we've elaborated further upon the Israel-Palestine conflict and its most likely outcome.

Wassa madda, sugar-britches, the conversation not going your way (again)?

Can't dominate the discussion?

Tsk, tsk, tsk...

Temper, temper...

You have got to be kidding. What in gawd's name makes you think everyone can not see that you and your lunatic jingoistic bombast is nothing but an indication of your tepid persona lurking under a bathroom stall scribbling new contests to conquer for your -own failings as a writer and intellectual?

Go hide under a stall pee wee.

 

[Kondor3]

I thought you would be thinking dresses and slips, do you have some on now? Sir Limp?

No, I'm not wearing any.... not my thing... but I do, indeed, have some, set off to the side, for your trousseau, milady...

Although they will best be experienced once you've sobered-up...

Perhaps after we've elaborated further upon the Israel-Palestine conflict and its most likely outcome.

Wassa madda, sugar-britches, the conversation not going your way (again)?

Can't dominate the discussion?

Tsk, tsk, tsk...

Temper, temper...

You have got to be kidding. What in gawd's name makes you think everyone can not see that you and your lunatic jingoistic bombast is nothing but an indication of your tepid persona lurking under a bathroom stall scribbling new contests to conquer for your -own failings as a writer and intellectual?

Go hide under a stall pee wee.

Yes, very nice, I'm sure.

Thank you for your feedback.

 

[SayMyName]

Interesting thread.

I love Israel, for many reasons. I go there whenever I can. Last year alone I spent 30 days backpacking from one end of the country starting at Masada and criss-crossing my way from the Dead Sea, the Jordan River, through Palestine, and from Jerusalem, to Nazareth, and on to the Sea of Galilee along what is known as the "Jesus Trail."

I am not religious, and though raised a Christian, do not believe anymore. Having said that, my observations of the people there reveal stark differences between Jews. Many, if not most I met are secular. They have as many condemnations to make about some of their own as they do of the Arabs, if not more, particularly of those that are ultra-orthodox. Attacks on Christian sites I surmise are most likely taking place by those that one might say are of the Hassidic groups. They can be very non-approachable at best, and even aggressive toward religious displays or any offense to their beliefs, such as my girlfriend mistakenly walking into their neighborhood in Jerusalem by misorientation just before the Sabbath was to begin. Along the Jesus Trail I even noticed them digging up a trail marker I came upon just passed Canna, where Jesus supposedly made wine from water at a wedding. I just nodded and continued on my track, understanding that saying anything would only have invited an uncomfortable confrontation. Many such stone markers for the trail are defaced and uprooted.

Most Jews, however, make visiting a worthwhile experience. I will return. My only hope is that the seculars gain more influence over the years to come. The intolerance I see among a few towards Christians and others will only lead to greater hostility in an area already plagued by conflict.

 

[Kondor3]

Indoctrinated by whom?

Brainwashed by whom?

Americans are brainwashed about Israel as children in school...

During the course of grade-school, high-school, and college, I can probably count the combined number of times that Israel came-up on the scope on the fingers of one hand.

You will have to leave me off the list of the so-called brainwashed and indoctrinated.

I was...

Purely a matter of personal experience and opinion, I assure you.

...Until I went to college I believed all the propaganda that you believe. I, luckily, took various courses on Middle East politics and history and discovered that I had been indoctrinated in elementary and high school...

College has phukked-up many a good young mind. At the State University that I chose, I stuck to domestic PoliSci, Psych, BusAdmin, CompSci and Historical studies as the primary range for my own studies there, and I managed to survive without being unduly influenced by the consistently Hyper-Liberal opinions of much of the faculty.

...I remember clearly a college course which demonstrated with tapes of the transmissions, how all the radio broadcasts that urged the non-Jews to flee or be killed were Jewish transmissions...

Oh, i wouldn't be overly-surprised if the Jews did some of that very thing... Lord knows they're smart enough to outwit their dullard adversaries... but I seriously doubt that the lion's share of such transmissions were of Jewish origin. As I recall, there exists considerable documentation on many of those transmissions and public-notices being of Arab origin.

The rest of the propaganda became obvious and source data contradicted it all.

Once one is hooked on a particular and significant train of thought, it's easy for the rest to fall into place more easily.

I may very well have had an advantage over you while attending school, in the area of 'filters' and 'processing' and 'pliability'.

In my case, I'd spent some time in the Army prior to going back to school, and was more worldly and cynical and jaded and less susceptible to political and social influence by the faculty than you might have been at a more tender age.

Just a guess.

 

[pbel]

Very nice, I'm sure.

What has this to do with the topic at hand?

Running out of material, little Snowflake?

Not to listen to a quack like you when you sing of Eretz Israel and the expulsion of people from their homes, that's on topic, LD!

This coming from a guy who constantly talks about how Israel will be destroyed.

Pro Palestinian hypocrisy at its best

Toast, it is my belief that Islam 1.4 billion adherents will continue to resist Israel's occupation in Palestine because it challenges their root beliefs in this East/West conflict, without an acceptable peace that saves face for Islam as proposed by the Arab league.

Absent that agreement, constant war is imminent...Forever.

 

[Phoenall]

Not to listen to a quack like you when you sing of Eretz Israel and the expulsion of people from their homes, that's on topic, LD!

This coming from a guy who constantly talks about how Israel will be destroyed.

Pro Palestinian hypocrisy at its best

Toast, it is my belief that Islam 1.4 billion adherents will continue to resist Israel's occupation in Palestine because it challenges their root beliefs in this East/West conflict, without an acceptable peace that saves face for Islam as proposed by the Arab league.

Absent that agreement, constant war is imminent...Forever.

You are not keeping abreast of the news then are you as the arab muslims have started to turn their backs on the Palestinians and have told them they are not welcome any more.

 

[toastman]

Not to listen to a quack like you when you sing of Eretz Israel and the expulsion of people from their homes, that's on topic, LD!

This coming from a guy who constantly talks about how Israel will be destroyed.

Pro Palestinian hypocrisy at its best

Toast, it is my belief that Islam 1.4 billion adherents will continue to resist Israel's occupation in Palestine because it challenges their root beliefs in this East/West conflict, without an acceptable peace that saves face for Islam as proposed by the Arab league.

Absent that agreement, constant war is imminent...Forever.

Ok, but I don't believe that returning to the 67 borders and allowing ROR would make most of those Muslims accept Israel in the ME.
I mean, so many if them openly declare how they want Israel gone.

If Israel does return to the 1967 borders, they will make some other excuse.

 

[pbel]

This coming from a guy who constantly talks about how Israel will be destroyed.

Pro Palestinian hypocrisy at its best

Toast, it is my belief that Islam 1.4 billion adherents will continue to resist Israel's occupation in Palestine because it challenges their root beliefs in this East/West conflict, without an acceptable peace that saves face for Islam as proposed by the Arab league.

Absent that agreement, constant war is imminent...Forever.

You are not keeping abreast of the news then are you as the arab muslims have started to turn their backs on the Palestinians and have told them they are not welcome any more.

They may not like the Palestinians but they hate Israel...

 

[sealybobo]

I know Jews who love Christians. So much so they have made me an honorary Jew. Can you name a Muslim who loves Christians?

I know some who love me and my brother. They said so. He said, "man you and your brother are great...too bad you two are going to hell"

No different than christian bible thumpers. I love seeing orthodox jews and muslums because it should make conservative christians realize that's how stupid they sound too.

 

[pbel]

This coming from a guy who constantly talks about how Israel will be destroyed.

Pro Palestinian hypocrisy at its best

Toast, it is my belief that Islam 1.4 billion adherents will continue to resist Israel's occupation in Palestine because it challenges their root beliefs in this East/West conflict, without an acceptable peace that saves face for Islam as proposed by the Arab league.

Absent that agreement, constant war is imminent...Forever.

Ok, but I don't believe that returning to the 67 borders and allowing ROR would make most of those Muslims accept Israel in the ME.
I mean, so many if them openly declare how they want Israel gone.

If Israel does return to the 1967 borders, they will make some other excuse.

The way I see it, the Key is prosperity through jobs and trade for the Palestinians and trade and recognition with her immediate neighbors the Arab league...Trade is key because it builds bridges and trust not to mention symbiotic relationships.

Look at the USA and Japan and Germany...bitter enemies trying to destroy each other now through trade the greatest of allies.

All your former enemies especially the Palestinians will die for Israel if she makes them prosper with friendship...

All this will happen in a generation or two or quickly as with Japan, Germany and the USA.

 

[toastman]

Toast, it is my belief that Islam 1.4 billion adherents will continue to resist Israel's occupation in Palestine because it challenges their root beliefs in this East/West conflict, without an acceptable peace that saves face for Islam as proposed by the Arab league.

Absent that agreement, constant war is imminent...Forever.

Ok, but I don't believe that returning to the 67 borders and allowing ROR would make most of those Muslims accept Israel in the ME.
I mean, so many if them openly declare how they want Israel gone.

If Israel does return to the 1967 borders, they will make some other excuse.

The way I see it, the Key is prosperity through jobs and trade for the Palestinians and trade and recognition with her immediate neighbors the Arab league...Trade is key because it builds bridges and trust not to mention symbiotic relationships.

Look at the USA and Japan and Germany...bitter enemies trying to destroy each other now through trade the greatest of allies.

All your former enemies especially the Palestinians will die for Israel if she makes them prosper with friendship...

All this will happen in a generation or two or quickly as with Japan, Germany and the USA.

"All your former enemies especially the Palestinians will die for Israel if she makes them prosper with friendship..."

Pbel, I wish that would be the case, but I could not disagree more.
At this point, I don't think there is anything to do that would result in Palestinians and Israelis having that kind of relationship. I want to believe it, but I just can't .

Also, you yourself say that Israel will die a slow death because of being hugely outnumbered by Arabs. Well that's exactly what would happen if Israel allowed ROR.

If Israel offered to go back to the 67 borders, but no ROR and no sovereignty over E . Jerusalem, what would you think?

 

[montelatici]

Ok, but I don't believe that returning to the 67 borders and allowing ROR would make most of those Muslims accept Israel in the ME.
I mean, so many if them openly declare how they want Israel gone.

If Israel does return to the 1967 borders, they will make some other excuse.

The way I see it, the Key is prosperity through jobs and trade for the Palestinians and trade and recognition with her immediate neighbors the Arab league...Trade is key because it builds bridges and trust not to mention symbiotic relationships.

Look at the USA and Japan and Germany...bitter enemies trying to destroy each other now through trade the greatest of allies.

All your former enemies especially the Palestinians will die for Israel if she makes them prosper with friendship...

All this will happen in a generation or two or quickly as with Japan, Germany and the USA.

"All your former enemies especially the Palestinians will die for Israel if she makes them prosper with friendship..."

Pbel, I wish that would be the case, but I could not disagree more.
At this point, I don't think there is anything to do that would result in Palestinians and Israelis having that kind of relationship. I want to believe it, but I just can't .

Also, you yourself say that Israel will die a slow death because of being hugely outnumbered by Arabs. Well that's exactly what would happen if Israel allowed ROR.

If Israel offered to go back to the 67 borders, but no ROR and no sovereignty over E . Jerusalem, what would you think?

"If Israel offered to go back to the 67 borders, but no ROR and no sovereignty over E . Jerusalem, what would you think?"

I think that 67 borders, East Jerusalem and no IDF within the 67 borders and East Jerusalem, no Israeli control over borders, airspace and territorial sea would be accepted by the Palestinians without right of return, as contrary to International Law as it is.

 

[pbel]

Ok, but I don't believe that returning to the 67 borders and allowing ROR would make most of those Muslims accept Israel in the ME.
I mean, so many if them openly declare how they want Israel gone.

If Israel does return to the 1967 borders, they will make some other excuse.

The way I see it, the Key is prosperity through jobs and trade for the Palestinians and trade and recognition with her immediate neighbors the Arab league...Trade is key because it builds bridges and trust not to mention symbiotic relationships.

Look at the USA and Japan and Germany...bitter enemies trying to destroy each other now through trade the greatest of allies.

All your former enemies especially the Palestinians will die for Israel if she makes them prosper with friendship...

All this will happen in a generation or two or quickly as with Japan, Germany and the USA.

"All your former enemies especially the Palestinians will die for Israel if she makes them prosper with friendship..."

Pbel, I wish that would be the case, but I could not disagree more.
At this point, I don't think there is anything to do that would result in Palestinians and Israelis having that kind of relationship. I want to believe it, but I just can't .

Also, you yourself say that Israel will die a slow death because of being hugely outnumbered by Arabs. Well that's exactly what would happen if Israel allowed ROR.

If Israel offered to go back to the 67 borders, but no ROR and no sovereignty over E . Jerusalem, what would you think?

Right of Return is not plausible except for family and compensation. E. Jerusalem is a core Issue for both parties...Co-Sovereignty or Internationalization is the only thing that will work. That's why the original partition plan so evolved. The religious mythology of both parties must be respected, because the religious fanatics on both sides are the agitators for Holy Wars, the biggest oxymoron that has ever existed on planet earth.

What is Holy about War!!!

 

[aris2chat]

The way I see it, the Key is prosperity through jobs and trade for the Palestinians and trade and recognition with her immediate neighbors the Arab league...Trade is key because it builds bridges and trust not to mention symbiotic relationships.

Look at the USA and Japan and Germany...bitter enemies trying to destroy each other now through trade the greatest of allies.

All your former enemies especially the Palestinians will die for Israel if she makes them prosper with friendship...

All this will happen in a generation or two or quickly as with Japan, Germany and the USA.

"All your former enemies especially the Palestinians will die for Israel if she makes them prosper with friendship..."

Pbel, I wish that would be the case, but I could not disagree more.
At this point, I don't think there is anything to do that would result in Palestinians and Israelis having that kind of relationship. I want to believe it, but I just can't .

Also, you yourself say that Israel will die a slow death because of being hugely outnumbered by Arabs. Well that's exactly what would happen if Israel allowed ROR.

If Israel offered to go back to the 67 borders, but no ROR and no sovereignty over E . Jerusalem, what would you think?

"If Israel offered to go back to the 67 borders, but no ROR and no sovereignty over E . Jerusalem, what would you think?"

I think that 67 borders, East Jerusalem and no IDF within the 67 borders and East Jerusalem, no Israeli control over borders, airspace and territorial sea would be accepted by the Palestinians without right of return, as contrary to International Law as it is.

You can't unplay the game. Work with the pieces on the board now and work out what is best for both sides.
"If" there were to be any retreat it should be in stages not as a precondition to even sitting across each other and talking.