CDZ What choice have folks who find Trump detestable and Mrs. Clinton unacceptable?

[flacaltenn]

Okay. If you’re happy with the results, as someone who knows, I’m in no position to argue.


Oh brother.

Really?? Before Clinton bombed 3 Arab countries in a year. Before his Sec State said that 300,000 deaths from US containment was "acceptable collateral damage". Before Bush got us entangled in Democratic Imperialism and nation building and before Obama/Clinton helped to create 3 or 4 sucking vacuums of power in the Mid East as terrorist havens --- we were telling folks that Arab states NEEDED SOB dictators for stability. And it was not in our interest to step between their tribal wars.

Same deal on domestic issues like domestic spying, asset forfeiture, gay issues, abuses out of the drug wars and ending corporate handouts. HELL -- we agree with Bernie on about half of his issues. Just that Bernie doesn't really know how things work in the Capitalist system so he can;'t IMPROVE it -- only attack it.

Spoken as someone who never had a candidate that had to worry about re-election, public opinion, or a political agenda. Its easy to criticize those who have called the plays. I’ll be interested to see how a libertarian reacts when there is skin in the game.

I wish you and your party well. But the American people have spoken by having two flawed choices and not paying much attention to the Libertarians.

Why SHOULD we "worry" about re-election? We are not a monarchy or dynasty.

Uhh….if you think you have the best ideas for the nation, you should, by definition, be trying to get elected/re-elected. If you don’t care about the future of the nation, why run at all?

And we don't NEED a political "agenda". We have a set of principles that anyone can learn about. If they don’t like those principles, we don't FORCE them or bribe them to re-elect us by comprising those principles.

Sounds as if you’re not willing to compromise.

A foreign concept to the party animals for sure. But you don't get 4 different position statements from us within the same election cycle.

I doubt on many un-nuanced topics, you get 4 PPs from most candidates.

The ideals of principles, citizen service, and a BIG dose of humility about serving in public office will EVENTUALLY be very attractive to America. Given the ride we're on sliding into a large bucket of political horsecrap and slime.

Not worried. There are always those who think the end is going to happen any old day now. The major parties will co-opt the Libertarian ideas that poll well and claim them for their own.

America has not yet spoken. In fact, MAYBE they won't even show up. Would be an even BIGGER partisan defeat if the Prez was determined by a historic low number of voters. LOTS of possibilities when you drag politics to THIS low of a level.. And you only offer candidates that will make this polarization and mistrust infinitely greater =-- Regardless of which damaged lunatic you choose. It's a race to the bottom. And the bottom is in sight.

America is in a leadership crisis. And we need an intervention..

We have a person running who has served in the federal government as Senator and SoS. She’s doing very well. Not worried about that at all.

What we have are intractable “principles” on both sides. More unwillingness to compromise is the last thing we need.

Uhh….if you think you have the best ideas for the nation, you should, by definition, be trying to get elected/re-elected. If you don’t care about the future of the nation, why run at all?

One person, or a group of people thinking that they "have the best ideas for the nation," is part of the cancer that's been growing in this country. There aren't many people in this country who believe in actual freedom, what they believe is their version of "freedom" should pressed upon all. These versions of "freedom" are nothing more than a superiority complex that's saying "I know what's best for the individual and/or the collective, and I'm going to pass legislation make sure it happens." Would y'all not agree with that characterization?

To me the statement, "if you think you have the best ideas for the nation, you should, by definition, be trying to get elected/re-elected," is a scary notion. To quote tears for fears "everybody wants to rule the world." That doesn't mean that every one is a great ruler, simply that they wish to rule. Someone who thinks they have a better way to rule, then must impose it. Even with the best of intentions, that ruler is now playing a giant game of chess, where the pieces are groups and demographics of people. The individual disappears in this giant game of chess, because there is no other way for the person in charge to grasp the concept of 320 million individual people, so they have to simplify us into the form of demographics and statistics, even though it is not representative of who we are as individuals. It's like Stalins famous quote (and im paraphrasing) one death is a tragedy, one million deaths is a statistic...that's so true because there is no way for our brains to grasp the fact that one million individuals died, we understand one million have died, but there is no way to personify and empathize with that many people.

I don't where you got the idea that the LParty is in the game to be arrogant or FORCE anyone to accept an ideology. We are in the game to SERVE. And we don't pander for power. The entire concept of 3rd party politics is to DIVERSIFY choices on the ballot. So if the 2 major parties have entirely lost their principles and their integrity --- there are alternatives. (which is now CLEARLY the case)

The Green Party should be there offering THEIR dreams of turning America into a subsidized franchise of communes. And We should be there to offer an experienced management team that is ASKING to be elected to be elected. NOT EXPECTING to be elected --- just because they've have candidates who have made hostile takeovers of Brand Name parties.

But I WILL say -- that we've been 25 years AHEAD of American public opinion and political thought. On foreign policy, on economic choice, on Civil Liberties and a LOT of other areas.We will talking about ISSUES and problem solving. Governors like Johnson/Weld are GREAT at stuff like that. Let the Brand Name parties TRY to accelerate the partisan poo-flinging -- EVENTUALLY folks will tire of the REAL arrogance and intoxication of gaining power. We're not in it to build dynasties or twist arms.

It's an old concept. A forgotten concept. But that's what political CHOICE should be about.

 

[flacaltenn]

flacaltenn assume you did manage to get Jonhson/Weld elected, how would you go about getting Congress to do ANYTHING they wanted done?

What does a mediation team do? They listen to both sides, see how that lines up with THEIR knowledge of how things work and propose an alternative. NOT a compromise. Because a little socialism and a little laissez faire is inedible.

On THEIR priority items --- they just go to the people. If Johnson comes out and asks America why Whirlpool or GE should get a $40 tax credit for every washing machine they sell -- and EXPLAINS that's the nutz of "corporate welfare" --- which Congress critter is STUPID enough to object?

Or when they stick to their guns on MEast policy and start playing for STABILITY in the region rather than an "arab spring" or "blooms of democracy" --- you think there's STILL a case for unseating MORE tyrants and blowing smoking holes in those countries? Johnson/Weld poll VERY WELL with active military. Better than their "general" polls. There is a reason for that.

I'm saying that I'm not sure our system can be saved . I mean seriously by any REASONABLE standard Hillary should be out of the running. Let's just be adults and admit that anyone who truly doesn't understand that she has broke laws and violated multiple policies in her grab for power is just a dolt. BUT she's protected by other people who have done similar and they aren't even about to let anyone upset that apple cart, that's why you see Republicans attacking Trump for saying mean things. Not saying Trump is an ideal candidate, just telling the truth.

Johnson would be POWERLESS as a President. The entrenched power structure would see to that, and you aren't going to get enough libertarians elected to change that.

You didn't answer the question. WHO in power would oppose ending corporate/govt collusion and welfare?

 

[sakinago]

Really?? Before Clinton bombed 3 Arab countries in a year. Before his Sec State said that 300,000 deaths from US containment was "acceptable collateral damage". Before Bush got us entangled in Democratic Imperialism and nation building and before Obama/Clinton helped to create 3 or 4 sucking vacuums of power in the Mid East as terrorist havens --- we were telling folks that Arab states NEEDED SOB dictators for stability. And it was not in our interest to step between their tribal wars.

Same deal on domestic issues like domestic spying, asset forfeiture, gay issues, abuses out of the drug wars and ending corporate handouts. HELL -- we agree with Bernie on about half of his issues. Just that Bernie doesn't really know how things work in the Capitalist system so he can;'t IMPROVE it -- only attack it.

Spoken as someone who never had a candidate that had to worry about re-election, public opinion, or a political agenda. Its easy to criticize those who have called the plays. I’ll be interested to see how a libertarian reacts when there is skin in the game.

I wish you and your party well. But the American people have spoken by having two flawed choices and not paying much attention to the Libertarians.

Why SHOULD we "worry" about re-election? We are not a monarchy or dynasty.

Uhh….if you think you have the best ideas for the nation, you should, by definition, be trying to get elected/re-elected. If you don’t care about the future of the nation, why run at all?

And we don't NEED a political "agenda". We have a set of principles that anyone can learn about. If they don’t like those principles, we don't FORCE them or bribe them to re-elect us by comprising those principles.

Sounds as if you’re not willing to compromise.

A foreign concept to the party animals for sure. But you don't get 4 different position statements from us within the same election cycle.

I doubt on many un-nuanced topics, you get 4 PPs from most candidates.

The ideals of principles, citizen service, and a BIG dose of humility about serving in public office will EVENTUALLY be very attractive to America. Given the ride we're on sliding into a large bucket of political horsecrap and slime.

Not worried. There are always those who think the end is going to happen any old day now. The major parties will co-opt the Libertarian ideas that poll well and claim them for their own.

America has not yet spoken. In fact, MAYBE they won't even show up. Would be an even BIGGER partisan defeat if the Prez was determined by a historic low number of voters. LOTS of possibilities when you drag politics to THIS low of a level.. And you only offer candidates that will make this polarization and mistrust infinitely greater =-- Regardless of which damaged lunatic you choose. It's a race to the bottom. And the bottom is in sight.

America is in a leadership crisis. And we need an intervention..

We have a person running who has served in the federal government as Senator and SoS. She’s doing very well. Not worried about that at all.

What we have are intractable “principles” on both sides. More unwillingness to compromise is the last thing we need.

Uhh….if you think you have the best ideas for the nation, you should, by definition, be trying to get elected/re-elected. If you don’t care about the future of the nation, why run at all?

One person, or a group of people thinking that they "have the best ideas for the nation," is part of the cancer that's been growing in this country. There aren't many people in this country who believe in actual freedom, what they believe is their version of "freedom" should pressed upon all. These versions of "freedom" are nothing more than a superiority complex that's saying "I know what's best for the individual and/or the collective, and I'm going to pass legislation make sure it happens." Would y'all not agree with that characterization?

To me the statement, "if you think you have the best ideas for the nation, you should, by definition, be trying to get elected/re-elected," is a scary notion. To quote tears for fears "everybody wants to rule the world." That doesn't mean that every one is a great ruler, simply that they wish to rule. Someone who thinks they have a better way to rule, then must impose it. Even with the best of intentions, that ruler is now playing a giant game of chess, where the pieces are groups and demographics of people. The individual disappears in this giant game of chess, because there is no other way for the person in charge to grasp the concept of 320 million individual people, so they have to simplify us into the form of demographics and statistics, even though it is not representative of who we are as individuals. It's like Stalins famous quote (and im paraphrasing) one death is a tragedy, one million deaths is a statistic...that's so true because there is no way for our brains to grasp the fact that one million individuals died, we understand one million have died, but there is no way to personify and empathize with that many people.

Nail meet hammer.

Our BIGGEST problem is that no one on either side cares about freedoms of those with whom they disagree, and are just unwilling to listen to reason.

gay marriage and gun rights are two great examples of people ignoring freedom in favor of what they think is best.

Here's one example, we all should hopefully remember the IRS ADMITTED targeting of tea party and conservative groups. If you have hate for the tea party, LEAVE IT ASIDE IN THIS EXCERCISE. The IRS (whether it was carried out by a group of individuals, or came from the top down, IT DOESNT MATTER), the end result was still the same, they were able to deal a heavy blow to these groups by railroading them with red tape, and not approving their tax exempt status. If no one is able to make a donation to these groups that's a tax write off, then not many people are going to donate. Now let's replace tea party with BLM....progressives...would you still think it wasn't a big deal that trumps IRS was able to greatly silence a group and dry up their donations by doing the same thing?? I would hope not, bc this is F**ked up, whether it's BLM or Tea party, IT DOESNT MATTER, the f**ked up part was that some form of government was able to silence an entire movement.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

Really?? Before Clinton bombed 3 Arab countries in a year. Before his Sec State said that 300,000 deaths from US containment was "acceptable collateral damage". Before Bush got us entangled in Democratic Imperialism and nation building and before Obama/Clinton helped to create 3 or 4 sucking vacuums of power in the Mid East as terrorist havens --- we were telling folks that Arab states NEEDED SOB dictators for stability. And it was not in our interest to step between their tribal wars.

Same deal on domestic issues like domestic spying, asset forfeiture, gay issues, abuses out of the drug wars and ending corporate handouts. HELL -- we agree with Bernie on about half of his issues. Just that Bernie doesn't really know how things work in the Capitalist system so he can;'t IMPROVE it -- only attack it.

Spoken as someone who never had a candidate that had to worry about re-election, public opinion, or a political agenda. Its easy to criticize those who have called the plays. I’ll be interested to see how a libertarian reacts when there is skin in the game.

I wish you and your party well. But the American people have spoken by having two flawed choices and not paying much attention to the Libertarians.

Why SHOULD we "worry" about re-election? We are not a monarchy or dynasty.

Uhh….if you think you have the best ideas for the nation, you should, by definition, be trying to get elected/re-elected. If you don’t care about the future of the nation, why run at all?

And we don't NEED a political "agenda". We have a set of principles that anyone can learn about. If they don’t like those principles, we don't FORCE them or bribe them to re-elect us by comprising those principles.

Sounds as if you’re not willing to compromise.

A foreign concept to the party animals for sure. But you don't get 4 different position statements from us within the same election cycle.

I doubt on many un-nuanced topics, you get 4 PPs from most candidates.

The ideals of principles, citizen service, and a BIG dose of humility about serving in public office will EVENTUALLY be very attractive to America. Given the ride we're on sliding into a large bucket of political horsecrap and slime.

Not worried. There are always those who think the end is going to happen any old day now. The major parties will co-opt the Libertarian ideas that poll well and claim them for their own.

America has not yet spoken. In fact, MAYBE they won't even show up. Would be an even BIGGER partisan defeat if the Prez was determined by a historic low number of voters. LOTS of possibilities when you drag politics to THIS low of a level.. And you only offer candidates that will make this polarization and mistrust infinitely greater =-- Regardless of which damaged lunatic you choose. It's a race to the bottom. And the bottom is in sight.

America is in a leadership crisis. And we need an intervention..

We have a person running who has served in the federal government as Senator and SoS. She’s doing very well. Not worried about that at all.

What we have are intractable “principles” on both sides. More unwillingness to compromise is the last thing we need.

Uhh….if you think you have the best ideas for the nation, you should, by definition, be trying to get elected/re-elected. If you don’t care about the future of the nation, why run at all?

One person, or a group of people thinking that they "have the best ideas for the nation," is part of the cancer that's been growing in this country. There aren't many people in this country who believe in actual freedom, what they believe is their version of "freedom" should pressed upon all. These versions of "freedom" are nothing more than a superiority complex that's saying "I know what's best for the individual and/or the collective, and I'm going to pass legislation make sure it happens." Would y'all not agree with that characterization?

To me the statement, "if you think you have the best ideas for the nation, you should, by definition, be trying to get elected/re-elected," is a scary notion. To quote tears for fears "everybody wants to rule the world." That doesn't mean that every one is a great ruler, simply that they wish to rule. Someone who thinks they have a better way to rule, then must impose it. Even with the best of intentions, that ruler is now playing a giant game of chess, where the pieces are groups and demographics of people. The individual disappears in this giant game of chess, because there is no other way for the person in charge to grasp the concept of 320 million individual people, so they have to simplify us into the form of demographics and statistics, even though it is not representative of who we are as individuals. It's like Stalins famous quote (and im paraphrasing) one death is a tragedy, one million deaths is a statistic...that's so true because there is no way for our brains to grasp the fact that one million individuals died, we understand one million have died, but there is no way to personify and empathize with that many people.

I don't where you got the idea that the LParty is in the game to be arrogant or FORCE anyone to accept an ideology. We are in the game to SERVE. And we don't pander for power. The entire concept of 3rd party politics is to DIVERSIFY choices on the ballot. So if the 2 major parties have entirely lost their principles and their integrity --- there are alternatives. (which is now CLEARLY the case)

The Green Party should be there offering THEIR dreams of turning America into a subsidized franchise of communes. And We should be there to offer an experienced management team that is ASKING to be elected to be elected. NOT EXPECTING to be elected --- just because they've have candidates who have made hostile takeovers of Brand Name parties.

But I WILL say -- that we've been 25 years AHEAD of American public opinion and political thought. On foreign policy, on economic choice, on Civil Liberties and a LOT of other areas.We will talking about ISSUES and problem solving. Governors like Johnson/Weld are GREAT at stuff like that. Let the Brand Name parties TRY to accelerate the partisan poo-flinging -- EVENTUALLY folks will tire of the REAL arrogance and intoxication of gaining power. We're not in it to build dynasties or twist arms.

It's an old concept. A forgotten concept. But that's what political CHOICE should be about.

Unfortunately your stance on pandering is exactly why the Libertarian Party will never go anywhere. The Democratic Party especially has convinced Americans that they DESERVE to be pandered too.

Your ideals of freedom simply can't compete with "free" stuff bro.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

flacaltenn assume you did manage to get Jonhson/Weld elected, how would you go about getting Congress to do ANYTHING they wanted done?

What does a mediation team do? They listen to both sides, see how that lines up with THEIR knowledge of how things work and propose an alternative. NOT a compromise. Because a little socialism and a little laissez faire is inedible.

On THEIR priority items --- they just go to the people. If Johnson comes out and asks America why Whirlpool or GE should get a $40 tax credit for every washing machine they sell -- and EXPLAINS that's the nutz of "corporate welfare" --- which Congress critter is STUPID enough to object?

Or when they stick to their guns on MEast policy and start playing for STABILITY in the region rather than an "arab spring" or "blooms of democracy" --- you think there's STILL a case for unseating MORE tyrants and blowing smoking holes in those countries? Johnson/Weld poll VERY WELL with active military. Better than their "general" polls. There is a reason for that.

I'm saying that I'm not sure our system can be saved . I mean seriously by any REASONABLE standard Hillary should be out of the running. Let's just be adults and admit that anyone who truly doesn't understand that she has broke laws and violated multiple policies in her grab for power is just a dolt. BUT she's protected by other people who have done similar and they aren't even about to let anyone upset that apple cart, that's why you see Republicans attacking Trump for saying mean things. Not saying Trump is an ideal candidate, just telling the truth.

Johnson would be POWERLESS as a President. The entrenched power structure would see to that, and you aren't going to get enough libertarians elected to change that.

You didn't answer the question. WHO in power would oppose ending corporate/govt collusion and welfare?

EVERY single person IN power because those who vote for them WANT corporate/govt collusion and welfare.

Your mistake is in having too much faith in idiotic Americans.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

Spoken as someone who never had a candidate that had to worry about re-election, public opinion, or a political agenda. Its easy to criticize those who have called the plays. I’ll be interested to see how a libertarian reacts when there is skin in the game.

I wish you and your party well. But the American people have spoken by having two flawed choices and not paying much attention to the Libertarians.

Why SHOULD we "worry" about re-election? We are not a monarchy or dynasty.

Uhh….if you think you have the best ideas for the nation, you should, by definition, be trying to get elected/re-elected. If you don’t care about the future of the nation, why run at all?

And we don't NEED a political "agenda". We have a set of principles that anyone can learn about. If they don’t like those principles, we don't FORCE them or bribe them to re-elect us by comprising those principles.

Sounds as if you’re not willing to compromise.

A foreign concept to the party animals for sure. But you don't get 4 different position statements from us within the same election cycle.

I doubt on many un-nuanced topics, you get 4 PPs from most candidates.

The ideals of principles, citizen service, and a BIG dose of humility about serving in public office will EVENTUALLY be very attractive to America. Given the ride we're on sliding into a large bucket of political horsecrap and slime.

Not worried. There are always those who think the end is going to happen any old day now. The major parties will co-opt the Libertarian ideas that poll well and claim them for their own.

America has not yet spoken. In fact, MAYBE they won't even show up. Would be an even BIGGER partisan defeat if the Prez was determined by a historic low number of voters. LOTS of possibilities when you drag politics to THIS low of a level.. And you only offer candidates that will make this polarization and mistrust infinitely greater =-- Regardless of which damaged lunatic you choose. It's a race to the bottom. And the bottom is in sight.

America is in a leadership crisis. And we need an intervention..

We have a person running who has served in the federal government as Senator and SoS. She’s doing very well. Not worried about that at all.

What we have are intractable “principles” on both sides. More unwillingness to compromise is the last thing we need.

Uhh….if you think you have the best ideas for the nation, you should, by definition, be trying to get elected/re-elected. If you don’t care about the future of the nation, why run at all?

One person, or a group of people thinking that they "have the best ideas for the nation," is part of the cancer that's been growing in this country. There aren't many people in this country who believe in actual freedom, what they believe is their version of "freedom" should pressed upon all. These versions of "freedom" are nothing more than a superiority complex that's saying "I know what's best for the individual and/or the collective, and I'm going to pass legislation make sure it happens." Would y'all not agree with that characterization?

To me the statement, "if you think you have the best ideas for the nation, you should, by definition, be trying to get elected/re-elected," is a scary notion. To quote tears for fears "everybody wants to rule the world." That doesn't mean that every one is a great ruler, simply that they wish to rule. Someone who thinks they have a better way to rule, then must impose it. Even with the best of intentions, that ruler is now playing a giant game of chess, where the pieces are groups and demographics of people. The individual disappears in this giant game of chess, because there is no other way for the person in charge to grasp the concept of 320 million individual people, so they have to simplify us into the form of demographics and statistics, even though it is not representative of who we are as individuals. It's like Stalins famous quote (and im paraphrasing) one death is a tragedy, one million deaths is a statistic...that's so true because there is no way for our brains to grasp the fact that one million individuals died, we understand one million have died, but there is no way to personify and empathize with that many people.

Nail meet hammer.

Our BIGGEST problem is that no one on either side cares about freedoms of those with whom they disagree, and are just unwilling to listen to reason.

gay marriage and gun rights are two great examples of people ignoring freedom in favor of what they think is best.

Here's one example, we all should hopefully remember the IRS ADMITTED targeting of tea party and conservative groups. If you have hate for the tea party, LEAVE IT ASIDE IN THIS EXCERCISE. The IRS (whether it was carried out by a group of individuals, or came from the top down, IT DOESNT MATTER), the end result was still the same, they were able to deal a heavy blow to these groups by railroading them with red tape, and not approving their tax exempt status. If no one is able to make a donation to these groups that's a tax write off, then not many people are going to donate. Now let's replace tea party with BLM....progressives...would you still think it wasn't a big deal that trumps IRS was able to greatly silence a group and dry up their donations by doing the same thing?? I would hope not, bc this is F**ked up, whether it's BLM or Tea party, IT DOESNT MATTER, the f**ked up part was that some form of government was able to silence an entire movement.

I've tried to say the same to those whooping it up over Obama using EOs to bypass Congress. They TRULY are too stupid to understand that they should be AGAINST such a thing even if they like what Obama does because o doubt in the future a POTUS will use such precedent to do something they DON'T like.

But alas, people are stupid and only think in the short term.

 

[flacaltenn]

Spoken as someone who never had a candidate that had to worry about re-election, public opinion, or a political agenda. Its easy to criticize those who have called the plays. I’ll be interested to see how a libertarian reacts when there is skin in the game.

I wish you and your party well. But the American people have spoken by having two flawed choices and not paying much attention to the Libertarians.

Why SHOULD we "worry" about re-election? We are not a monarchy or dynasty.

Uhh….if you think you have the best ideas for the nation, you should, by definition, be trying to get elected/re-elected. If you don’t care about the future of the nation, why run at all?

And we don't NEED a political "agenda". We have a set of principles that anyone can learn about. If they don’t like those principles, we don't FORCE them or bribe them to re-elect us by comprising those principles.

Sounds as if you’re not willing to compromise.

A foreign concept to the party animals for sure. But you don't get 4 different position statements from us within the same election cycle.

I doubt on many un-nuanced topics, you get 4 PPs from most candidates.

The ideals of principles, citizen service, and a BIG dose of humility about serving in public office will EVENTUALLY be very attractive to America. Given the ride we're on sliding into a large bucket of political horsecrap and slime.

Not worried. There are always those who think the end is going to happen any old day now. The major parties will co-opt the Libertarian ideas that poll well and claim them for their own.

America has not yet spoken. In fact, MAYBE they won't even show up. Would be an even BIGGER partisan defeat if the Prez was determined by a historic low number of voters. LOTS of possibilities when you drag politics to THIS low of a level.. And you only offer candidates that will make this polarization and mistrust infinitely greater =-- Regardless of which damaged lunatic you choose. It's a race to the bottom. And the bottom is in sight.

America is in a leadership crisis. And we need an intervention..

We have a person running who has served in the federal government as Senator and SoS. She’s doing very well. Not worried about that at all.

What we have are intractable “principles” on both sides. More unwillingness to compromise is the last thing we need.

Uhh….if you think you have the best ideas for the nation, you should, by definition, be trying to get elected/re-elected. If you don’t care about the future of the nation, why run at all?

One person, or a group of people thinking that they "have the best ideas for the nation," is part of the cancer that's been growing in this country. There aren't many people in this country who believe in actual freedom, what they believe is their version of "freedom" should pressed upon all. These versions of "freedom" are nothing more than a superiority complex that's saying "I know what's best for the individual and/or the collective, and I'm going to pass legislation make sure it happens." Would y'all not agree with that characterization?

To me the statement, "if you think you have the best ideas for the nation, you should, by definition, be trying to get elected/re-elected," is a scary notion. To quote tears for fears "everybody wants to rule the world." That doesn't mean that every one is a great ruler, simply that they wish to rule. Someone who thinks they have a better way to rule, then must impose it. Even with the best of intentions, that ruler is now playing a giant game of chess, where the pieces are groups and demographics of people. The individual disappears in this giant game of chess, because there is no other way for the person in charge to grasp the concept of 320 million individual people, so they have to simplify us into the form of demographics and statistics, even though it is not representative of who we are as individuals. It's like Stalins famous quote (and im paraphrasing) one death is a tragedy, one million deaths is a statistic...that's so true because there is no way for our brains to grasp the fact that one million individuals died, we understand one million have died, but there is no way to personify and empathize with that many people.

Nail meet hammer.

Our BIGGEST problem is that no one on either side cares about freedoms of those with whom they disagree, and are just unwilling to listen to reason.

gay marriage and gun rights are two great examples of people ignoring freedom in favor of what they think is best.

Here's one example, we all should hopefully remember the IRS ADMITTED targeting of tea party and conservative groups. If you have hate for the tea party, LEAVE IT ASIDE IN THIS EXCERCISE. The IRS (whether it was carried out by a group of individuals, or came from the top down, IT DOESNT MATTER), the end result was still the same, they were able to deal a heavy blow to these groups by railroading them with red tape, and not approving their tax exempt status. If no one is able to make a donation to these groups that's a tax write off, then not many people are going to donate. Now let's replace tea party with BLM....progressives...would you still think it wasn't a big deal that trumps IRS was able to greatly silence a group and dry up their donations by doing the same thing?? I would hope not, bc this is F**ked up, whether it's BLM or Tea party, IT DOESNT MATTER, the f**ked up part was that some form of government was able to silence an entire movement.

Agreed. HOW do they get away with it? They appoint several hundred DEFENSIVE players to crony positions as HEADS of agencies or Attorney General. Extreme partisans --- ready to take a bullet for the party that appointed them. THey can thumb their noses at Congress, lie to the public, and nothing happens.

If the folks you elect are NOT a corporate political machine fixated on MAINTAINING power --- they appoint the MOST QUALIFIED and somewhat Dem/Rep neutral folks they can draft.

Imagine an A.General that is there SOLELY because of their qualifications and NOT especially dedicated "to the party". You have a virtual "independent counsel" on every issue that comes before them.

If you don't like folks who are ONLY THERE to serve --- you kick them out and go back to the old plan. We really don't care. It's up to the electorate --- not the LParty.

 

[sakinago]

Really?? Before Clinton bombed 3 Arab countries in a year. Before his Sec State said that 300,000 deaths from US containment was "acceptable collateral damage". Before Bush got us entangled in Democratic Imperialism and nation building and before Obama/Clinton helped to create 3 or 4 sucking vacuums of power in the Mid East as terrorist havens --- we were telling folks that Arab states NEEDED SOB dictators for stability. And it was not in our interest to step between their tribal wars.

Same deal on domestic issues like domestic spying, asset forfeiture, gay issues, abuses out of the drug wars and ending corporate handouts. HELL -- we agree with Bernie on about half of his issues. Just that Bernie doesn't really know how things work in the Capitalist system so he can;'t IMPROVE it -- only attack it.

Spoken as someone who never had a candidate that had to worry about re-election, public opinion, or a political agenda. Its easy to criticize those who have called the plays. I’ll be interested to see how a libertarian reacts when there is skin in the game.

I wish you and your party well. But the American people have spoken by having two flawed choices and not paying much attention to the Libertarians.

Why SHOULD we "worry" about re-election? We are not a monarchy or dynasty.

Uhh….if you think you have the best ideas for the nation, you should, by definition, be trying to get elected/re-elected. If you don’t care about the future of the nation, why run at all?

And we don't NEED a political "agenda". We have a set of principles that anyone can learn about. If they don’t like those principles, we don't FORCE them or bribe them to re-elect us by comprising those principles.

Sounds as if you’re not willing to compromise.

A foreign concept to the party animals for sure. But you don't get 4 different position statements from us within the same election cycle.

I doubt on many un-nuanced topics, you get 4 PPs from most candidates.

The ideals of principles, citizen service, and a BIG dose of humility about serving in public office will EVENTUALLY be very attractive to America. Given the ride we're on sliding into a large bucket of political horsecrap and slime.

Not worried. There are always those who think the end is going to happen any old day now. The major parties will co-opt the Libertarian ideas that poll well and claim them for their own.

America has not yet spoken. In fact, MAYBE they won't even show up. Would be an even BIGGER partisan defeat if the Prez was determined by a historic low number of voters. LOTS of possibilities when you drag politics to THIS low of a level.. And you only offer candidates that will make this polarization and mistrust infinitely greater =-- Regardless of which damaged lunatic you choose. It's a race to the bottom. And the bottom is in sight.

America is in a leadership crisis. And we need an intervention..

We have a person running who has served in the federal government as Senator and SoS. She’s doing very well. Not worried about that at all.

What we have are intractable “principles” on both sides. More unwillingness to compromise is the last thing we need.

Uhh….if you think you have the best ideas for the nation, you should, by definition, be trying to get elected/re-elected. If you don’t care about the future of the nation, why run at all?

One person, or a group of people thinking that they "have the best ideas for the nation," is part of the cancer that's been growing in this country. There aren't many people in this country who believe in actual freedom, what they believe is their version of "freedom" should pressed upon all. These versions of "freedom" are nothing more than a superiority complex that's saying "I know what's best for the individual and/or the collective, and I'm going to pass legislation make sure it happens." Would y'all not agree with that characterization?

To me the statement, "if you think you have the best ideas for the nation, you should, by definition, be trying to get elected/re-elected," is a scary notion. To quote tears for fears "everybody wants to rule the world." That doesn't mean that every one is a great ruler, simply that they wish to rule. Someone who thinks they have a better way to rule, then must impose it. Even with the best of intentions, that ruler is now playing a giant game of chess, where the pieces are groups and demographics of people. The individual disappears in this giant game of chess, because there is no other way for the person in charge to grasp the concept of 320 million individual people, so they have to simplify us into the form of demographics and statistics, even though it is not representative of who we are as individuals. It's like Stalins famous quote (and im paraphrasing) one death is a tragedy, one million deaths is a statistic...that's so true because there is no way for our brains to grasp the fact that one million individuals died, we understand one million have died, but there is no way to personify and empathize with that many people.

I don't where you got the idea that the LParty is in the game to be arrogant or FORCE anyone to accept an ideology. We are in the game to SERVE. And we don't pander for power. The entire concept of 3rd party politics is to DIVERSIFY choices on the ballot. So if the 2 major parties have entirely lost their principles and their integrity --- there are alternatives. (which is now CLEARLY the case)

The Green Party should be there offering THEIR dreams of turning America into a subsidized franchise of communes. And We should be there to offer an experienced management team that is ASKING to be elected to be elected. NOT EXPECTING to be elected --- just because they've have candidates who have made hostile takeovers of Brand Name parties.

But I WILL say -- that we've been 25 years AHEAD of American public opinion and political thought. On foreign policy, on economic choice, on Civil Liberties and a LOT of other areas.We will talking about ISSUES and problem solving. Governors like Johnson/Weld are GREAT at stuff like that. Let the Brand Name parties TRY to accelerate the partisan poo-flinging -- EVENTUALLY folks will tire of the REAL arrogance and intoxication of gaining power. We're not in it to build dynasties or twist arms.

It's an old concept. A forgotten concept. But that's what political CHOICE should be about.

No, I never claimed, nor do I believe the Lparty is in the business of twisting arms. It cannot, by its ideology, it's an oxymoron to believe that. I was describing the state of the two parties, both of whom parade with the constitution when it benefits them, and convieniently ignore the parts they don't like. What these two parties want is to force their freedom upon the other. I am not the biggest fan of Johnson, but I do love his economic policies, and will be voting for him bc to me that's the biggest issue we will be facing in the coming years. Social issues he's not a terrible candidate, it's just to me, in the past he has cared more about legalizing (and smoking) marijuana than anything else. I believe it should be legalized...but we got bigger fish to fry and we need to straighten out our priorities, or the rest of america will not take the Lparty seriously

 

[flacaltenn]

flacaltenn assume you did manage to get Jonhson/Weld elected, how would you go about getting Congress to do ANYTHING they wanted done?

What does a mediation team do? They listen to both sides, see how that lines up with THEIR knowledge of how things work and propose an alternative. NOT a compromise. Because a little socialism and a little laissez faire is inedible.

On THEIR priority items --- they just go to the people. If Johnson comes out and asks America why Whirlpool or GE should get a $40 tax credit for every washing machine they sell -- and EXPLAINS that's the nutz of "corporate welfare" --- which Congress critter is STUPID enough to object?

Or when they stick to their guns on MEast policy and start playing for STABILITY in the region rather than an "arab spring" or "blooms of democracy" --- you think there's STILL a case for unseating MORE tyrants and blowing smoking holes in those countries? Johnson/Weld poll VERY WELL with active military. Better than their "general" polls. There is a reason for that.

I'm saying that I'm not sure our system can be saved . I mean seriously by any REASONABLE standard Hillary should be out of the running. Let's just be adults and admit that anyone who truly doesn't understand that she has broke laws and violated multiple policies in her grab for power is just a dolt. BUT she's protected by other people who have done similar and they aren't even about to let anyone upset that apple cart, that's why you see Republicans attacking Trump for saying mean things. Not saying Trump is an ideal candidate, just telling the truth.

Johnson would be POWERLESS as a President. The entrenched power structure would see to that, and you aren't going to get enough libertarians elected to change that.

You didn't answer the question. WHO in power would oppose ending corporate/govt collusion and welfare?

EVERY single person IN power because those who vote for them WANT corporate/govt collusion and welfare.

Your mistake is in having too much faith in idiotic Americans.

Then you embarrass the HECK out of them. Because ALL sectors of voters want it ended. From the Bernie Burners to the real free market Conservatives. You start picturing those hogs as they SHOULD be.. .

You TELL THE TRUTH. You tell the public how EASY IT IS to fix it. And you SHAME those who are the reason it hasn't been done. Wake up man. This really is simpler than you think.

Same deal on fixing our MEast policy. It's COMPLETELY indefensible what we've done to the region in the past 30 years. You hang tough. You speak the truth and you point out the MASSIVE list of failures that SHOULD have been stopped. The jerks are STILL making the same damn mistakes over and over again.

The people LISTEN to leadership. We just haven't had much in 20 years or so.....

 

[Fair&Balanced]

flacaltenn assume you did manage to get Jonhson/Weld elected, how would you go about getting Congress to do ANYTHING they wanted done?

What does a mediation team do? They listen to both sides, see how that lines up with THEIR knowledge of how things work and propose an alternative. NOT a compromise. Because a little socialism and a little laissez faire is inedible.

On THEIR priority items --- they just go to the people. If Johnson comes out and asks America why Whirlpool or GE should get a $40 tax credit for every washing machine they sell -- and EXPLAINS that's the nutz of "corporate welfare" --- which Congress critter is STUPID enough to object?

Or when they stick to their guns on MEast policy and start playing for STABILITY in the region rather than an "arab spring" or "blooms of democracy" --- you think there's STILL a case for unseating MORE tyrants and blowing smoking holes in those countries? Johnson/Weld poll VERY WELL with active military. Better than their "general" polls. There is a reason for that.

I'm saying that I'm not sure our system can be saved . I mean seriously by any REASONABLE standard Hillary should be out of the running. Let's just be adults and admit that anyone who truly doesn't understand that she has broke laws and violated multiple policies in her grab for power is just a dolt. BUT she's protected by other people who have done similar and they aren't even about to let anyone upset that apple cart, that's why you see Republicans attacking Trump for saying mean things. Not saying Trump is an ideal candidate, just telling the truth.

Johnson would be POWERLESS as a President. The entrenched power structure would see to that, and you aren't going to get enough libertarians elected to change that.

You didn't answer the question. WHO in power would oppose ending corporate/govt collusion and welfare?

EVERY single person IN power because those who vote for them WANT corporate/govt collusion and welfare.

Your mistake is in having too much faith in idiotic Americans.

Then you embarrass the HECK out of them. Because ALL sectors of voters want it ended. From the Bernie Burners to the real free market Conservatives. You start picturing those hogs as they SHOULD be.. .

You TELL THE TRUTH. You tell the public how EASY IT IS to fix it. And you SHAME those who are the reason it hasn't been done. Wake up man. This really is simpler than you think.

Same deal on fixing our MEast policy. It's COMPLETELY indefensible what we've done to the region in the past 30 years. You hang tough. You speak the truth and you point out the MASSIVE list of failures that SHOULD have been stopped. The jerks are STILL making the same damn mistakes over and over again.

The people LISTEN to leadership. We just haven't had much in 20 years or so.....

I applaud your faith in the American people. I really do.


I just dont share it.

 

[flacaltenn]

Spoken as someone who never had a candidate that had to worry about re-election, public opinion, or a political agenda. Its easy to criticize those who have called the plays. I’ll be interested to see how a libertarian reacts when there is skin in the game.

I wish you and your party well. But the American people have spoken by having two flawed choices and not paying much attention to the Libertarians.

Why SHOULD we "worry" about re-election? We are not a monarchy or dynasty.

Uhh….if you think you have the best ideas for the nation, you should, by definition, be trying to get elected/re-elected. If you don’t care about the future of the nation, why run at all?

And we don't NEED a political "agenda". We have a set of principles that anyone can learn about. If they don’t like those principles, we don't FORCE them or bribe them to re-elect us by comprising those principles.

Sounds as if you’re not willing to compromise.

A foreign concept to the party animals for sure. But you don't get 4 different position statements from us within the same election cycle.

I doubt on many un-nuanced topics, you get 4 PPs from most candidates.

The ideals of principles, citizen service, and a BIG dose of humility about serving in public office will EVENTUALLY be very attractive to America. Given the ride we're on sliding into a large bucket of political horsecrap and slime.

Not worried. There are always those who think the end is going to happen any old day now. The major parties will co-opt the Libertarian ideas that poll well and claim them for their own.

America has not yet spoken. In fact, MAYBE they won't even show up. Would be an even BIGGER partisan defeat if the Prez was determined by a historic low number of voters. LOTS of possibilities when you drag politics to THIS low of a level.. And you only offer candidates that will make this polarization and mistrust infinitely greater =-- Regardless of which damaged lunatic you choose. It's a race to the bottom. And the bottom is in sight.

America is in a leadership crisis. And we need an intervention..

We have a person running who has served in the federal government as Senator and SoS. She’s doing very well. Not worried about that at all.

What we have are intractable “principles” on both sides. More unwillingness to compromise is the last thing we need.

Uhh….if you think you have the best ideas for the nation, you should, by definition, be trying to get elected/re-elected. If you don’t care about the future of the nation, why run at all?

One person, or a group of people thinking that they "have the best ideas for the nation," is part of the cancer that's been growing in this country. There aren't many people in this country who believe in actual freedom, what they believe is their version of "freedom" should pressed upon all. These versions of "freedom" are nothing more than a superiority complex that's saying "I know what's best for the individual and/or the collective, and I'm going to pass legislation make sure it happens." Would y'all not agree with that characterization?

To me the statement, "if you think you have the best ideas for the nation, you should, by definition, be trying to get elected/re-elected," is a scary notion. To quote tears for fears "everybody wants to rule the world." That doesn't mean that every one is a great ruler, simply that they wish to rule. Someone who thinks they have a better way to rule, then must impose it. Even with the best of intentions, that ruler is now playing a giant game of chess, where the pieces are groups and demographics of people. The individual disappears in this giant game of chess, because there is no other way for the person in charge to grasp the concept of 320 million individual people, so they have to simplify us into the form of demographics and statistics, even though it is not representative of who we are as individuals. It's like Stalins famous quote (and im paraphrasing) one death is a tragedy, one million deaths is a statistic...that's so true because there is no way for our brains to grasp the fact that one million individuals died, we understand one million have died, but there is no way to personify and empathize with that many people.

I don't where you got the idea that the LParty is in the game to be arrogant or FORCE anyone to accept an ideology. We are in the game to SERVE. And we don't pander for power. The entire concept of 3rd party politics is to DIVERSIFY choices on the ballot. So if the 2 major parties have entirely lost their principles and their integrity --- there are alternatives. (which is now CLEARLY the case)

The Green Party should be there offering THEIR dreams of turning America into a subsidized franchise of communes. And We should be there to offer an experienced management team that is ASKING to be elected to be elected. NOT EXPECTING to be elected --- just because they've have candidates who have made hostile takeovers of Brand Name parties.

But I WILL say -- that we've been 25 years AHEAD of American public opinion and political thought. On foreign policy, on economic choice, on Civil Liberties and a LOT of other areas.We will talking about ISSUES and problem solving. Governors like Johnson/Weld are GREAT at stuff like that. Let the Brand Name parties TRY to accelerate the partisan poo-flinging -- EVENTUALLY folks will tire of the REAL arrogance and intoxication of gaining power. We're not in it to build dynasties or twist arms.

It's an old concept. A forgotten concept. But that's what political CHOICE should be about.

No, I never claimed, nor do I believe the Lparty is in the business of twisting arms. It cannot, by its ideology, it's an oxymoron to believe that. I was describing the state of the two parties, both of whom parade with the constitution when it benefits them, and convieniently ignore the parts they don't like. What these two parties want is to force their freedom upon the other. I am not the biggest fan of Johnson, but I do love his economic policies, and will be voting for him bc to me that's the biggest issue we will be facing in the coming years. Social issues he's not a terrible candidate, it's just to me, in the past he has cared more about legalizing (and smoking) marijuana than anything else. I believe it should be legalized...but we got bigger fish to fry and we need to straighten out our priorities, or the rest of america will not take the Lparty seriously

There would progress on several fronts I think. On Civil Liberties for sure. Simple crap like straightening out the legalities of the "terrorist list" or the "drone list" or the "patriot act". Or on school choice and devolving most control back to the States --- along with the cash. Only so much you COULD expect from 4 years -- given where we started from.

Demonstrating how much political corruption disappears when corporate subsidies are ended would be YUUUGE.

My opinion is now -- I'm less concerned about libertarian purity, than I am about the EMERGENCY to have a "mediation team" break up the kindergarten riot that's goin on.. And I would TAKE even a neutral, bipartisian compromise ticket (as much as I hate comprising) --- because this MIGHT be our last chance to avoid having the Dem/Reps take this country to the bottom.

If Johnson/Weld truely DAMAGE the LParty principles, WE will vote them out in the primaries. But considering the situation --- you and I BOTH would probably cut them some slack..

 

[flacaltenn]

What does a mediation team do? They listen to both sides, see how that lines up with THEIR knowledge of how things work and propose an alternative. NOT a compromise. Because a little socialism and a little laissez faire is inedible.

On THEIR priority items --- they just go to the people. If Johnson comes out and asks America why Whirlpool or GE should get a $40 tax credit for every washing machine they sell -- and EXPLAINS that's the nutz of "corporate welfare" --- which Congress critter is STUPID enough to object?

Or when they stick to their guns on MEast policy and start playing for STABILITY in the region rather than an "arab spring" or "blooms of democracy" --- you think there's STILL a case for unseating MORE tyrants and blowing smoking holes in those countries? Johnson/Weld poll VERY WELL with active military. Better than their "general" polls. There is a reason for that.

I'm saying that I'm not sure our system can be saved . I mean seriously by any REASONABLE standard Hillary should be out of the running. Let's just be adults and admit that anyone who truly doesn't understand that she has broke laws and violated multiple policies in her grab for power is just a dolt. BUT she's protected by other people who have done similar and they aren't even about to let anyone upset that apple cart, that's why you see Republicans attacking Trump for saying mean things. Not saying Trump is an ideal candidate, just telling the truth.

Johnson would be POWERLESS as a President. The entrenched power structure would see to that, and you aren't going to get enough libertarians elected to change that.

You didn't answer the question. WHO in power would oppose ending corporate/govt collusion and welfare?

EVERY single person IN power because those who vote for them WANT corporate/govt collusion and welfare.

Your mistake is in having too much faith in idiotic Americans.

Then you embarrass the HECK out of them. Because ALL sectors of voters want it ended. From the Bernie Burners to the real free market Conservatives. You start picturing those hogs as they SHOULD be.. .

You TELL THE TRUTH. You tell the public how EASY IT IS to fix it. And you SHAME those who are the reason it hasn't been done. Wake up man. This really is simpler than you think.

Same deal on fixing our MEast policy. It's COMPLETELY indefensible what we've done to the region in the past 30 years. You hang tough. You speak the truth and you point out the MASSIVE list of failures that SHOULD have been stopped. The jerks are STILL making the same damn mistakes over and over again.

The people LISTEN to leadership. We just haven't had much in 20 years or so.....

I applaud your faith in the American people. I really do.


I just dont share it.

You like GE paying no taxes because they get MASSIVE tax breaks for energy efficient appliances that EVERYONE makes? Do you know ANYONE who actually does?

Perhaps some of the Bernie supporters don't realize that this corporate pig fest is LARGELY "green crap". But dishwashers and jet engines are not really gonna fix the planet. It certainly fixes the corporate tax bills.

WHO likes this crap man? Name someone.... OUTSIDE of the DC Beltway...

 

[peabody]

There aren't any other choices. Trump is a racist bafoon and an ignorant jerk. He will be a disaster for America, but Hillary is even worse because she represents the continuation of a neo-liberal global order which is rooted in unregulated free markets, on shitty trade deals like NAFTA, on socialism for the rich/rugged individualism for the rest of us and on ill-advised regime change (Libya) among other blunders and short-sighted policies.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

I'm saying that I'm not sure our system can be saved . I mean seriously by any REASONABLE standard Hillary should be out of the running. Let's just be adults and admit that anyone who truly doesn't understand that she has broke laws and violated multiple policies in her grab for power is just a dolt. BUT she's protected by other people who have done similar and they aren't even about to let anyone upset that apple cart, that's why you see Republicans attacking Trump for saying mean things. Not saying Trump is an ideal candidate, just telling the truth.

Johnson would be POWERLESS as a President. The entrenched power structure would see to that, and you aren't going to get enough libertarians elected to change that.

You didn't answer the question. WHO in power would oppose ending corporate/govt collusion and welfare?

EVERY single person IN power because those who vote for them WANT corporate/govt collusion and welfare.

Your mistake is in having too much faith in idiotic Americans.

Then you embarrass the HECK out of them. Because ALL sectors of voters want it ended. From the Bernie Burners to the real free market Conservatives. You start picturing those hogs as they SHOULD be.. .

You TELL THE TRUTH. You tell the public how EASY IT IS to fix it. And you SHAME those who are the reason it hasn't been done. Wake up man. This really is simpler than you think.

Same deal on fixing our MEast policy. It's COMPLETELY indefensible what we've done to the region in the past 30 years. You hang tough. You speak the truth and you point out the MASSIVE list of failures that SHOULD have been stopped. The jerks are STILL making the same damn mistakes over and over again.

The people LISTEN to leadership. We just haven't had much in 20 years or so.....

I applaud your faith in the American people. I really do.


I just dont share it.

You like GE paying no taxes because they get MASSIVE tax breaks for energy efficient appliances that EVERYONE makes? Do you know ANYONE who actually does?

Perhaps some of the Bernie supporters don't realize that this corporate pig fest is LARGELY "green crap". But dishwashers and jet engines are not really gonna fix the planet. It certainly fixes the corporate tax bills.

WHO likes this crap man? Name someone.... OUTSIDE of the DC Beltway...

The people who continually vote for the people they KNOW are doing such things man.


A year ago, I would have swore that NO American would support a candidate who either broke the damn law or was simply incompetent beyond belief for POTUS , but here we are .......................

 

[Fair&Balanced]

There aren't any other choices. Trump is a racist bafoon and an ignorant jerk. He will be a disaster for America, but Hillary is even worse because she represents the continuation of a neo-liberal global order which is rooted in unregulated free markets, on shitty trade deals like NAFTA, on socialism for the rich/rugged individualism for the rest of us and on ill-advised regime change (Libya) among other blunders and short-sighted policies.

I don't know man. I think Trump got a new speech writer too. His last 3 speeches have been fire.

 

[sakinago]

Why SHOULD we "worry" about re-election? We are not a monarchy or dynasty.

Uhh….if you think you have the best ideas for the nation, you should, by definition, be trying to get elected/re-elected. If you don’t care about the future of the nation, why run at all?

And we don't NEED a political "agenda". We have a set of principles that anyone can learn about. If they don’t like those principles, we don't FORCE them or bribe them to re-elect us by comprising those principles.

Sounds as if you’re not willing to compromise.

A foreign concept to the party animals for sure. But you don't get 4 different position statements from us within the same election cycle.

I doubt on many un-nuanced topics, you get 4 PPs from most candidates.

The ideals of principles, citizen service, and a BIG dose of humility about serving in public office will EVENTUALLY be very attractive to America. Given the ride we're on sliding into a large bucket of political horsecrap and slime.

Not worried. There are always those who think the end is going to happen any old day now. The major parties will co-opt the Libertarian ideas that poll well and claim them for their own.

America has not yet spoken. In fact, MAYBE they won't even show up. Would be an even BIGGER partisan defeat if the Prez was determined by a historic low number of voters. LOTS of possibilities when you drag politics to THIS low of a level.. And you only offer candidates that will make this polarization and mistrust infinitely greater =-- Regardless of which damaged lunatic you choose. It's a race to the bottom. And the bottom is in sight.

America is in a leadership crisis. And we need an intervention..

We have a person running who has served in the federal government as Senator and SoS. She’s doing very well. Not worried about that at all.

What we have are intractable “principles” on both sides. More unwillingness to compromise is the last thing we need.

Uhh….if you think you have the best ideas for the nation, you should, by definition, be trying to get elected/re-elected. If you don’t care about the future of the nation, why run at all?

One person, or a group of people thinking that they "have the best ideas for the nation," is part of the cancer that's been growing in this country. There aren't many people in this country who believe in actual freedom, what they believe is their version of "freedom" should pressed upon all. These versions of "freedom" are nothing more than a superiority complex that's saying "I know what's best for the individual and/or the collective, and I'm going to pass legislation make sure it happens." Would y'all not agree with that characterization?

To me the statement, "if you think you have the best ideas for the nation, you should, by definition, be trying to get elected/re-elected," is a scary notion. To quote tears for fears "everybody wants to rule the world." That doesn't mean that every one is a great ruler, simply that they wish to rule. Someone who thinks they have a better way to rule, then must impose it. Even with the best of intentions, that ruler is now playing a giant game of chess, where the pieces are groups and demographics of people. The individual disappears in this giant game of chess, because there is no other way for the person in charge to grasp the concept of 320 million individual people, so they have to simplify us into the form of demographics and statistics, even though it is not representative of who we are as individuals. It's like Stalins famous quote (and im paraphrasing) one death is a tragedy, one million deaths is a statistic...that's so true because there is no way for our brains to grasp the fact that one million individuals died, we understand one million have died, but there is no way to personify and empathize with that many people.

I don't where you got the idea that the LParty is in the game to be arrogant or FORCE anyone to accept an ideology. We are in the game to SERVE. And we don't pander for power. The entire concept of 3rd party politics is to DIVERSIFY choices on the ballot. So if the 2 major parties have entirely lost their principles and their integrity --- there are alternatives. (which is now CLEARLY the case)

The Green Party should be there offering THEIR dreams of turning America into a subsidized franchise of communes. And We should be there to offer an experienced management team that is ASKING to be elected to be elected. NOT EXPECTING to be elected --- just because they've have candidates who have made hostile takeovers of Brand Name parties.

But I WILL say -- that we've been 25 years AHEAD of American public opinion and political thought. On foreign policy, on economic choice, on Civil Liberties and a LOT of other areas.We will talking about ISSUES and problem solving. Governors like Johnson/Weld are GREAT at stuff like that. Let the Brand Name parties TRY to accelerate the partisan poo-flinging -- EVENTUALLY folks will tire of the REAL arrogance and intoxication of gaining power. We're not in it to build dynasties or twist arms.

It's an old concept. A forgotten concept. But that's what political CHOICE should be about.

No, I never claimed, nor do I believe the Lparty is in the business of twisting arms. It cannot, by its ideology, it's an oxymoron to believe that. I was describing the state of the two parties, both of whom parade with the constitution when it benefits them, and convieniently ignore the parts they don't like. What these two parties want is to force their freedom upon the other. I am not the biggest fan of Johnson, but I do love his economic policies, and will be voting for him bc to me that's the biggest issue we will be facing in the coming years. Social issues he's not a terrible candidate, it's just to me, in the past he has cared more about legalizing (and smoking) marijuana than anything else. I believe it should be legalized...but we got bigger fish to fry and we need to straighten out our priorities, or the rest of america will not take the Lparty seriously

There would progress on several fronts I think. On Civil Liberties for sure. Simple crap like straightening out the legalities of the "terrorist list" or the "drone list" or the "patriot act". Or on school choice and devolving most control back to the States --- along with the cash. Only so much you COULD expect from 4 years -- given where we started from.

Demonstrating how much political corruption disappears when corporate subsidies are ended would be YUUUGE.

My opinion is now -- I'm less concerned about libertarian purity, than I am about the EMERGENCY to have a "mediation team" break up the kindergarten riot that's goin on.. And I would TAKE even a neutral, bipartisian compromise ticket (as much as I hate comprising) --- because this MIGHT be our last chance to avoid having the Dem/Reps take this country to the bottom.

If Johnson/Weld truely DAMAGE the LParty principles, WE will vote them out in the primaries. But considering the situation --- you and I BOTH would probably cut them some slack..

Agreed, and hopefully Johnson/weld do a good enough job that the libertarian party does not seem so crazy to the rest of America, so if they do get voted out in primaries, a better libertarian ticket can take their place and have a decent shot. But for now, they should serve a fine jb weld on the dyke that's about to burst.

And there are civil liberty issues that I think should be easy for both sides to find common ground on...only problem is the leaders of both parties aren't talking about those issues or taking a fair stance on them.

 

[Holos]

Seems the best choice they have is to take appropriate care of themselves. Right diet, right exercises, right sleep.

 

[flacaltenn]

You didn't answer the question. WHO in power would oppose ending corporate/govt collusion and welfare?

EVERY single person IN power because those who vote for them WANT corporate/govt collusion and welfare.

Your mistake is in having too much faith in idiotic Americans.

Then you embarrass the HECK out of them. Because ALL sectors of voters want it ended. From the Bernie Burners to the real free market Conservatives. You start picturing those hogs as they SHOULD be.. .

You TELL THE TRUTH. You tell the public how EASY IT IS to fix it. And you SHAME those who are the reason it hasn't been done. Wake up man. This really is simpler than you think.

Same deal on fixing our MEast policy. It's COMPLETELY indefensible what we've done to the region in the past 30 years. You hang tough. You speak the truth and you point out the MASSIVE list of failures that SHOULD have been stopped. The jerks are STILL making the same damn mistakes over and over again.

The people LISTEN to leadership. We just haven't had much in 20 years or so.....

I applaud your faith in the American people. I really do.


I just dont share it.

You like GE paying no taxes because they get MASSIVE tax breaks for energy efficient appliances that EVERYONE makes? Do you know ANYONE who actually does?

Perhaps some of the Bernie supporters don't realize that this corporate pig fest is LARGELY "green crap". But dishwashers and jet engines are not really gonna fix the planet. It certainly fixes the corporate tax bills.

WHO likes this crap man? Name someone.... OUTSIDE of the DC Beltway...

The people who continually vote for the people they KNOW are doing such things man.


A year ago, I would have swore that NO American would support a candidate who either broke the damn law or was simply incompetent beyond belief for POTUS , but here we are .......................

Do they really have a CHOICE to vote for candidates that are not raving arrogant lunatics?

That's how bad it actually is. Start FIXING stuff that's actually easy to fix and that MOST people agree on. The list is VERY long..

 

[flacaltenn]

There aren't any other choices. Trump is a racist bafoon and an ignorant jerk. He will be a disaster for America, but Hillary is even worse because she represents the continuation of a neo-liberal global order which is rooted in unregulated free markets, on shitty trade deals like NAFTA, on socialism for the rich/rugged individualism for the rest of us and on ill-advised regime change (Libya) among other blunders and short-sighted policies.

You can clearly see it gets WORSE if either of these are elected. We will soon not be able to tell the lies from the news. Won't have any kind of meaningful oversight over government because the PARTIES own it.

It IS a crisis. We should start using that word. Or any better word you want to use.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

EVERY single person IN power because those who vote for them WANT corporate/govt collusion and welfare.

Your mistake is in having too much faith in idiotic Americans.

Then you embarrass the HECK out of them. Because ALL sectors of voters want it ended. From the Bernie Burners to the real free market Conservatives. You start picturing those hogs as they SHOULD be.. .

You TELL THE TRUTH. You tell the public how EASY IT IS to fix it. And you SHAME those who are the reason it hasn't been done. Wake up man. This really is simpler than you think.

Same deal on fixing our MEast policy. It's COMPLETELY indefensible what we've done to the region in the past 30 years. You hang tough. You speak the truth and you point out the MASSIVE list of failures that SHOULD have been stopped. The jerks are STILL making the same damn mistakes over and over again.

The people LISTEN to leadership. We just haven't had much in 20 years or so.....

I applaud your faith in the American people. I really do.


I just dont share it.

You like GE paying no taxes because they get MASSIVE tax breaks for energy efficient appliances that EVERYONE makes? Do you know ANYONE who actually does?

Perhaps some of the Bernie supporters don't realize that this corporate pig fest is LARGELY "green crap". But dishwashers and jet engines are not really gonna fix the planet. It certainly fixes the corporate tax bills.

WHO likes this crap man? Name someone.... OUTSIDE of the DC Beltway...

The people who continually vote for the people they KNOW are doing such things man.


A year ago, I would have swore that NO American would support a candidate who either broke the damn law or was simply incompetent beyond belief for POTUS , but here we are .......................

Do they really have a CHOICE to vote for candidates that are not raving arrogant lunatics?

That's how bad it actually is. Start FIXING stuff that's actually easy to fix and that MOST people agree on. The list is VERY long..

That's right, that's why I thin the top down approach is doomed to fail.

We need to be electing city councils, and mayors, and state legislators and governors and Representatives and Senators who are worth a shit. Otherwise , the President doesnt really matter.


Our cities are failing , start there, get a Libertarian in and show us how they can fix Chicago, for example. Then we'll see.