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Where Have All the Russian Trolls Gone?

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Sunni Man
TNHarley

rofl
 
i'm still here lol

well, i've been accused of being a Russian troll, if that's enough for you? in reality i'm a proud American of Lebanese-Basque origin
 
The truth is most wars, once they break out, tend to silence all opposition, as the media and population rally against the perceived enemy. It is also true that neither side here is talking about a peace settlement now (at the beginning at least Zelensky was, and Putin’s original retreats from Kiev may have made him consider negotiations too).

Both are seemingly now determined to duke it out to “final victory.” The Americans can finance the Ukrainian government almost permanently — the U.S. dollar is strong and the U.S. may actually emerge stronger economically, as its European junior partners suffer great blows.

Until the Ukraine “counter-offensive” results are definitively in, until the political effects of this winter’s energy crisis in Europe is clear, there will be no further talk of a ceasefire or peace. The dangerous proxy war nature of the conflict can escalate further, or remain deadlocked for years until one or both sides are exhausted.

It is a complete tragedy, on many levels, and even those of us who foresaw it and tried to stop the drift to war decades ago, are now sidelined and have little to offer concretely. Putin’s outrageous and failed total invasion strategy discredited him thoroughly with Ukrainians and of course in the West.

The invasion and war is also devastating Ukraine’s Russian-speaking East, which might not have happened had Putin’s attack been much more limited (and “successful”) from the start. Russia under Putin is becoming ever more brutalized and backward. With trade continuing with China and India, and the Ruble strong, Putin and his regime may survive everything. With Western aid, what’s left of Ukraine may also survive, but it is now, and will probably remain, a ruined, corrupt, hyper-nationalist and highly militarized country.

Ukraine would have been better off without its “Maidan Revolution” or subsequently with a Western-imposed re-unification with its Donbas region, allowing for autonomy (and Russian influence) there. But that was “the road not taken.”
 
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Ukraine would have been better off without its “Maidan Revolution” or subsequently with a Western-imposed re-unification with its Donbas region, allowing for autonomy (and Russian influence) there. But that was “the road not taken.
That is actually a complex topic for discussion. The Maidan Revolution was inevitable, because a significant part of Ukraine couldn't tolerate Ukraine's possible shift back to Russian sphere. Likewise, a significant part of Ukraine couldn't get along with the idea of severing ties with Russia.

Basically, events on the Maidan and subsequent events in the Donbas were a civil war. Yes, there was an external influence, on both sides. But the main cause of all that was internal divisions.

Also, you indirectly mentioned the Minsk agreements. The main flaw of them is either side had opposite views and interpreted them in their favour. Ukraine saw them as interim after which all Donbas would return in Ukraine's political and legal system. Moscow saw them as constitutional, with 'republics' virtually becoming independent entities who can influence a central government's policy.

The main question is where Ukraine should stop in this war. 'Patriotic' circles claim it should go to 1991 boundaries. I have some doubts. I don't think Crimea and the Donbas should be kept as a part of Ukraine.
 
That is actually a complex topic for discussion. The Maidan Revolution was inevitable, because a significant part of Ukraine couldn't tolerate Ukraine's possible shift back to Russian sphere. Likewise, a significant part of Ukraine couldn't get along with the idea of severing ties with Russia.

Basically, events on the Maidan and subsequent events in the Donbas were a civil war. Yes, there was an external influence, on both sides. But the main cause of all that was internal divisions.

Also, you indirectly mentioned the Minsk agreements. The main flaw of them is either side had opposite views and interpreted them in their favour. Ukraine saw them as interim after which all Donbas would return in Ukraine's political and legal system. Moscow saw them as constitutional, with 'republics' virtually becoming independent entities who can influence a central government's policy.

The main question is where Ukraine should stop in this war. 'Patriotic' circles claim it should go to 1991 boundaries. I have some doubts. I don't think Crimea and the Donbas should be kept as a part of Ukraine.

Before this war started, I would agree with you.

Now, not so much. If the Russians in the Donbass want to be Russians that badly, they can move to Russia. They have plenty of land.

The goal of this war should be to utterly humiliate Putin, to the point where his own people get rid of him.
 
Before this war started, I would agree with you.

Now, not so much. If the Russians in the Donbass want to be Russians that badly, they can move to Russia. They have plenty of land.

The goal of this war should be to utterly humiliate Putin, to the point where his own people get rid of him.
It is not about what the Russians in the Donbas want. It is about the price what Ukraine can pay to reclaim these territories.

Ukraine won't recognize any occupied lands as a part of Russia. But at some point the costs of an active war may be deemed too high. Actually, we have almost come to this point.

Reclaiming Kharkiv region and the western part of Kherson region. And then the active fighting should be stopped. After that, reforming the country, developing military on NATO standards, integration into the EU.
 

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