“Without peace with the Palestinians, Israel can never live in peace”

[Frankenstein]

GARBAGE. HAMAS WON THE ELECTIONS IN 2006.

I do not care they rule with an iron fist, and use citizens, hospitals, and schools as cover, and should never even be allowed to be a part of elections!

 

[Lesh]

I do not care they rule with an iron fist, and use citizens, hospitals, and schools as cover, and should never even be allowed to be a part of elections!

No argument with that post at all

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Wrong. There are no Philistines left

The Israelis Could Use the Jawbone of an Ass

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

The only answer is a Greater Israel.

 

[Mac-7]

Well?

Not much

The palestinians will have more children who become terrorists and the conflict continues

 

[Viktor]

Not much

The palestinians will have more children who become terrorists and the conflict continues

Islam teaches hatred of Jews.and israel.

 

[luiza]

No argument with that post at all

Pity you don't squawk about the same situation in Ukraine where the Kyiv Nazis have been using the same tactics consistently .

 

[Viktor]

Islam teaches hatred of Jews.and israel.

https://www.usmessageboard.com/threads/here-is-a-hamas-leader-telling-you-his-plan.1071179/

 

[USAF 2023]

I urge fellow members to make the effort to read the entire deeply emotive & eloquent article below written by an Israeli journalist. Amid terror, bloodshed, destruction and total chaos, one should still try to hold on to their humanity.

In our civilised world, revenge is not justice!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Excerpts:

“We feel fear, anger and helplessness: all of Israel is in a state of war. But revenge is not the answer”. By Orly Noy, Israeli journalist and editor at the Hebrew-language news magazine Local Call.

We feel fear, anger and helplessness: all of Israel is in a state of war. But revenge is not the answer | Orly Noy

We are in shock as we digest the Hamas attacks and the failings of Netanyahu’s government. The worry now is what comes next.

It is still impossible to digest these darker-than-dark days that began with sirens jolting us awake on Saturday morning, a day that seems endless and probably won’t end for many days to come. The thought of the abductees in the Gaza Strip is crumpling me down with pain. Every thought of them leaves a layer of terror on the skin. The images and reports of bodies strewn in every corner, of families held hostage for hours as human shields in their own homes by Hamas militants, still haunt the mind, freezing the heart.

The absolute shock caused by Hamas’s attack on southern towns has taken various forms as the hours pass: fear, helplessness, anger, and above all, a deep sense of chaos. The colossal failures of Benjamin Netanyahu’s government and the security apparatus are converging into a sense of total breakdown. The intelligence system, which surveils every aspect of Palestinians’ lives in Gaza and the West Bank, had no prior knowledge of the attack; civilians were left defenceless for many hours against Hamas militants, who trapped them in their homes and slaughtered them without military intervention – the same military tasked with protecting every settler in the West Bank at any given moment.

Amid this absolute chaos, Netanyahu addressed citizens late on Saturday: a hollow statement with slogans such as “we will win”, “we will strike them”, “we will annihilate terrorism”. He is a man of many slogans. He promises Israel will “take mighty vengeance” and that “the enemy will pay an unprecedented price”, suffering “return fire of a magnitude that the enemy has not known”.

That language is deliberate. For while a traumatised Israeli public is not yet ready to seek the deep political and moral reckoning this catastrophe demands, the anger already directed towards Netanyahu is palpable. A prime minister entangled in legal proceedings appointed, to suit his own political needs, people who were not only extremely hawkish but also highly unprofessional – and put them in charge of our security. Rightfully he is now seen as personally responsible. He seeks to save his own political skin, once again, by urging the Knesset to establish a national emergency government, much like the one he formed three years ago with the leader of the National Unity party, Benny Gantz, under the pretext of a coronavirus response. But even without that national emergency government being formed, the Jewish opposition in the Knesset fully supports the government’s deadly attack on Gaza. And they are not alone: many Israelis want to see the entire Gaza Strip pay an unprecedented price.

The public desire for revenge is both understandable and terrifying, but the erasure of any moral red line is always a frightening thing.

It is important not to minimise or condone the heinous crimes committed by Hamas. But it is also important to remind ourselves that everything it is inflicting on us now, we have been inflicting on the Palestinians for years. Indiscriminate firing, including at children and older people; intrusion into their homes; burning down their houses; taking hostages – not just fighters but civilians, children and older people. I keep reminding myself that ignoring this context is giving up a piece of my own humanity. Because violence devoid of any context leads to only one possible response: revenge. And I don’t want revenge from anyone. Because revenge is the opposite of security, it is the opposite of peace, it is also the opposite of justice. It is nothing but more violence.

I maintain that there are crimes of abundance and there are crimes of hunger, and we have not only brought Gaza to the brink of starvation, we have brought it to a state of collapse. Always in the name of security. How much security did we get? Where will another round of revenge take us?

Terrible crimes were committed against Israelis this Saturday, crimes that the mind cannot fathom – and in this time of dark grief, I cling to the one thing I have left to hold on to: my humanity. The absolute belief that this hell is not predestined. Not for us, nor for them.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Replies to the above article:

Thank you, Orly Noy, for capturing the horror, terror and desolate grief with a fair accountability of how such a heinous attack comes into being (We feel fear, anger and helplessness: all of Israel is in a state of war. But revenge is not the answer, 9 October). Two days before the horrific attack by Hamas, I finished reading the anthology Light in Gaza, by Palestinians writing about their lives under 16 years of Israel’s blockade. It is profound, inspiring, heart-wrenching, and powerfully important to help understand how hate is perpetuated by ongoing oppression and persecution, which feeds the violence of Hamas.

The attacks by Hamas are horrific and so are the retaliation strikes and blockade of food and water and medical supplies for more than 2 million people.

Had we acknowledged that we built modern Israel on stolen land and that 750,000 Palestinians were expelled or fled; had we made some effort at reparations; had we treated Palestinians with the same rights as we treat Israeli Jews; had there been one law for all people, as taught by Leviticus 24:22, it is much more likely that so much of this violence could have been prevented.

But a justice system that allows ongoing theft and violence against a people can only lead to deepening rage and violence. May we learn from these attacks and fight against all injustice and violence. May we grieve all of the deaths, wounding and horrific oppression.


Harriet Cooke-Cohen
Portland, Oregon, US

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is with horror and deep sorrow that I read about the latest violence in Israel and Palestine. I feel so sad for all those people, Palestinian and Israeli, who have been working with all they have towards finding a just and lasting peace. Fighting and violence, whether it’s Hamas or the Israeli military, is the same: violence and disaster for civilians and for humanity. The only answer is to dissolve violence, aggression, guns and walls, and accept that what you sow, you reap.

If security is required, a true feeling of safety will need to be fostered for all occupants and generations in Israel and Palestine. How much money has the US given to Israel for weapons and military security? These funds need to go towards reconciliation, towards working for a genuine lasting peace in Palestine and Israel.


Karen Sillence
Bristol

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There was a phrase used in Northern Ireland during the Troubles – “acceptable level of violence”. The Israeli people have lived like this since the last intifada, or perhaps since 1967. Surely history should have taught them that you cannot live like this for ever. They will have to come to an accommodation with the Palestinian people sooner rather than later. Dismissing them as terrorists will not work. The former Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin, who had some experience of terrorism, knew this, which was why he sought peace with Egypt and Jordan. A future Israeli government will have to do the same. The present administration never will.


Brian Dermody
Blessington, County Wicklow, Ireland

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Almost exactly a year ago, the Palestinian lawyer and writer Raja Shehadeh wrote that “without peace with the Palestinians, Israel can never live in peace” (14 October 2022). Still desperately true, as the front-page headline on your print edition on Monday – “Violence escalates as death toll surges over 1,000” – makes clear.


Margaret and Robin Derbyshire
Cheltenham, Gloucestershire

I will ask the question AGAIN. What was the problem with Olmert's peace plan?
What proposals did Abbas bring to the table that was rejected"
The PLO made it their OFFICIAL POLICY that Jews would NOT be allowed to pray at the Western Wall, That ALONE will kill ANY chance.
Why are Jews forbidden to visit the Dome of the Rock?
What assurances to the Israelis have that the Palestinians will forbid visits to ALL Holy Sites such as Jordan did ?

 

[USAF 2023]

I urge fellow members to make the effort to read the entire deeply emotive & eloquent article below written by an Israeli journalist. Amid terror, bloodshed, destruction and total chaos, one should still try to hold on to their humanity.

In our civilised world, revenge is not justice!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Excerpts:

“We feel fear, anger and helplessness: all of Israel is in a state of war. But revenge is not the answer”. By Orly Noy, Israeli journalist and editor at the Hebrew-language news magazine Local Call.

We feel fear, anger and helplessness: all of Israel is in a state of war. But revenge is not the answer | Orly Noy

We are in shock as we digest the Hamas attacks and the failings of Netanyahu’s government. The worry now is what comes next.

It is still impossible to digest these darker-than-dark days that began with sirens jolting us awake on Saturday morning, a day that seems endless and probably won’t end for many days to come. The thought of the abductees in the Gaza Strip is crumpling me down with pain. Every thought of them leaves a layer of terror on the skin. The images and reports of bodies strewn in every corner, of families held hostage for hours as human shields in their own homes by Hamas militants, still haunt the mind, freezing the heart.

The absolute shock caused by Hamas’s attack on southern towns has taken various forms as the hours pass: fear, helplessness, anger, and above all, a deep sense of chaos. The colossal failures of Benjamin Netanyahu’s government and the security apparatus are converging into a sense of total breakdown. The intelligence system, which surveils every aspect of Palestinians’ lives in Gaza and the West Bank, had no prior knowledge of the attack; civilians were left defenceless for many hours against Hamas militants, who trapped them in their homes and slaughtered them without military intervention – the same military tasked with protecting every settler in the West Bank at any given moment.

Amid this absolute chaos, Netanyahu addressed citizens late on Saturday: a hollow statement with slogans such as “we will win”, “we will strike them”, “we will annihilate terrorism”. He is a man of many slogans. He promises Israel will “take mighty vengeance” and that “the enemy will pay an unprecedented price”, suffering “return fire of a magnitude that the enemy has not known”.

That language is deliberate. For while a traumatised Israeli public is not yet ready to seek the deep political and moral reckoning this catastrophe demands, the anger already directed towards Netanyahu is palpable. A prime minister entangled in legal proceedings appointed, to suit his own political needs, people who were not only extremely hawkish but also highly unprofessional – and put them in charge of our security. Rightfully he is now seen as personally responsible. He seeks to save his own political skin, once again, by urging the Knesset to establish a national emergency government, much like the one he formed three years ago with the leader of the National Unity party, Benny Gantz, under the pretext of a coronavirus response. But even without that national emergency government being formed, the Jewish opposition in the Knesset fully supports the government’s deadly attack on Gaza. And they are not alone: many Israelis want to see the entire Gaza Strip pay an unprecedented price.

The public desire for revenge is both understandable and terrifying, but the erasure of any moral red line is always a frightening thing.

It is important not to minimise or condone the heinous crimes committed by Hamas. But it is also important to remind ourselves that everything it is inflicting on us now, we have been inflicting on the Palestinians for years. Indiscriminate firing, including at children and older people; intrusion into their homes; burning down their houses; taking hostages – not just fighters but civilians, children and older people. I keep reminding myself that ignoring this context is giving up a piece of my own humanity. Because violence devoid of any context leads to only one possible response: revenge. And I don’t want revenge from anyone. Because revenge is the opposite of security, it is the opposite of peace, it is also the opposite of justice. It is nothing but more violence.

I maintain that there are crimes of abundance and there are crimes of hunger, and we have not only brought Gaza to the brink of starvation, we have brought it to a state of collapse. Always in the name of security. How much security did we get? Where will another round of revenge take us?

Terrible crimes were committed against Israelis this Saturday, crimes that the mind cannot fathom – and in this time of dark grief, I cling to the one thing I have left to hold on to: my humanity. The absolute belief that this hell is not predestined. Not for us, nor for them.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Replies to the above article:

Thank you, Orly Noy, for capturing the horror, terror and desolate grief with a fair accountability of how such a heinous attack comes into being (We feel fear, anger and helplessness: all of Israel is in a state of war. But revenge is not the answer, 9 October). Two days before the horrific attack by Hamas, I finished reading the anthology Light in Gaza, by Palestinians writing about their lives under 16 years of Israel’s blockade. It is profound, inspiring, heart-wrenching, and powerfully important to help understand how hate is perpetuated by ongoing oppression and persecution, which feeds the violence of Hamas.

The attacks by Hamas are horrific and so are the retaliation strikes and blockade of food and water and medical supplies for more than 2 million people.

Had we acknowledged that we built modern Israel on stolen land and that 750,000 Palestinians were expelled or fled; had we made some effort at reparations; had we treated Palestinians with the same rights as we treat Israeli Jews; had there been one law for all people, as taught by Leviticus 24:22, it is much more likely that so much of this violence could have been prevented.

But a justice system that allows ongoing theft and violence against a people can only lead to deepening rage and violence. May we learn from these attacks and fight against all injustice and violence. May we grieve all of the deaths, wounding and horrific oppression.


Harriet Cooke-Cohen
Portland, Oregon, US

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is with horror and deep sorrow that I read about the latest violence in Israel and Palestine. I feel so sad for all those people, Palestinian and Israeli, who have been working with all they have towards finding a just and lasting peace. Fighting and violence, whether it’s Hamas or the Israeli military, is the same: violence and disaster for civilians and for humanity. The only answer is to dissolve violence, aggression, guns and walls, and accept that what you sow, you reap.

If security is required, a true feeling of safety will need to be fostered for all occupants and generations in Israel and Palestine. How much money has the US given to Israel for weapons and military security? These funds need to go towards reconciliation, towards working for a genuine lasting peace in Palestine and Israel.


Karen Sillence
Bristol

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There was a phrase used in Northern Ireland during the Troubles – “acceptable level of violence”. The Israeli people have lived like this since the last intifada, or perhaps since 1967. Surely history should have taught them that you cannot live like this for ever. They will have to come to an accommodation with the Palestinian people sooner rather than later. Dismissing them as terrorists will not work. The former Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin, who had some experience of terrorism, knew this, which was why he sought peace with Egypt and Jordan. A future Israeli government will have to do the same. The present administration never will.


Brian Dermody
Blessington, County Wicklow, Ireland

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Almost exactly a year ago, the Palestinian lawyer and writer Raja Shehadeh wrote that “without peace with the Palestinians, Israel can never live in peace” (14 October 2022). Still desperately true, as the front-page headline on your print edition on Monday – “Violence escalates as death toll surges over 1,000” – makes clear.


Margaret and Robin Derbyshire
Cheltenham, Gloucestershire

 

[USAF 2023]

Hamas official says group aims to repeat Oct. 7 onslaught many times to destroy Israel

They are not civilized

 

[USAF 2023]

Hamas official says group aims to repeat Oct. 7 onslaught many times to destroy Israel

They are not civilized

Of course Tinmore approves of Oct 7th over and over again Consider the source

 

[BS Filter]

Haven’t been able to have peace with Palestine in over 50 years

After last week it is obvious it is not going to happen

Agree. The Palestinians want Israel gone and that's not happening.

 

[Lesh]

Agree. The Palestinians want Israel gone and that's not happening.

Actually , right wing Zionists want Palestinians gone

 

[BS Filter]

Actually , right wing Zionists want Palestinians gone

Okay with me. They contribute absolutely nothing but misery.

 

[Lesh]

Okay with me. They contribute absolutely nothing but misery.

You’re talking about a second Holocaust.

 

[surada]

I will ask the question AGAIN. What was the problem with Olmert's peace plan?
What proposals did Abbas bring to the table that was rejected"
The PLO made it their OFFICIAL POLICY that Jews would NOT be allowed to pray at the Western Wall, That ALONE will kill ANY chance.
Why are Jews forbidden to visit the Dome of the Rock?
What assurances to the Israelis have that the Palestinians will forbid visits to ALL Holy Sites such as Jordan did ?

There's no temple since 70 AD. It was abandoned by the Jews for nearly 600 years. Revelation says there is no temple.

 

[USAF 2023]

There's no temple since 70 AD. It was abandoned by the Jews for nearly 600 years. Revelation says there is no temple.

Deflection STILl no response

 

[surada]

Deflection STILl no response

Israel hasn't exactly been trustworthy or full of good will. They have abused and demonized the Arabic speaking Palestinians for 80 years.

 

[surada]

There is no peace because the Palestinians don't want peace. They openly call for the murder of all Jews in Israel and idiots like you blame the Jews.

The Palestinians have always been the victims here. Israel set out to purge Palestine of Arabic speaking people and create a Jewish state in 1897.