ALL 11 Alternate (Fake) Electors, Including GOP Chair Kelli Ward, Indicted In Arizona!

[Faun]

You appear clueless. They sent fake certificates to Congress. Two of the states were hand delivered to an aide of Mike Pence. That aide refused to take them to give to Pence -- but he could have. The only thing that stopped him were ethics. And had he handed them to Pence, given what we now know about Pence's commitment to the Constitution based on his performance on J6, he likely would have rejected only the fake certificate and counted the real certificate -- but there was nothing to stop him from either choosing the fake one only to count; or to dismiss both slates.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The morons are the ones making the accusations yet can't articulate how it could have possibly ever been successful.

Irrelevant. What an idiotic talking point. Smells like desperation.

 

[Faun]

So because the criminals had a stupid plan to rob the bank you don't consider that an actual bank robbery?

Appears they are that crazy.

 

[Faun]

How many times are going to ignore that such a thing could have and would have never happened? You have no answers for any of the questions I've asked, you don't understand the process, you act like some aide can go pass off uncertified electors to Pence and have him throw out both the certified and the uncertified. You have no explanation for where the other 6 states 'fake' electors were, no explanation for anything really.

That's not true. It could have happened. All that was needed was for a few Republicans, including Pence, to go along with it.

 

[OldFlame]

You appear clueless. They sent fake certificates to Congress. Two of the states were hand delivered to an aide of Mike Pence. That aide refused to take them to give to Pence -- but he could have. The only thing that stopped him were ethics. And had he handed them to Pence, given what we now know about Pence's commitment to the Constitution based on his performance on J6, he likely would have rejected only the fake certificate and counted the real certificate -- but there was nothing to stop him from either choosing the fake one only to count; or to dismiss both slates.

So it was legal for Pence to accept or count a 'fake', uncertified certificate that was just handed to a senator's aide and dismiss a legtimate, certified one?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

So it was legal for Pence to accept or count a 'fake', uncertified certificate that was just handed to a senator's aide and dismiss a legtimate, certified one?

Nope. And that was "Plan A". Plan B was Pence refusing to certify and sending the electors back to the State legislatures to decide which to send back.

Mikey Pence destroyed their plans. That's why Meadows was standing around with a virtual gun in his mouth, Bruning documents and taking about going to prison, after Mikey dashed their criminal conspiracy.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

No, you haven't. The devil is in the details, you've provided none.

Ignore him.

Oh, I completely get it, you just can't explain how it would have played out, cause it never would have been able to, ever.

a group of experts that know how the process works was going to try to do something they would have known would never work. It defies reason and logic,

Either there is a process to deal with multiple slates or there is not?

So no formal process for a state to send in their certified certificate, it's just handed off to a senator's aide?

The morons are the ones making the accusations yet can't articulate how it could have possibly ever been successful.

See NFBW Oct 25, 2021 Post #319 in “Liz Cheney says Trump appears to have been ‘personally involved in planning’ 6 Jan insurrection”. Thread!!!!!!

Oldestyle wrote: Oh, now there is a "written plan" to destroy democracy, NotFooled? You of course have SEEN this plan...right? (eye roll) 21OCT25-POST#316


NFBW wrote: read it yourself: 21OCT25-POST#319

Correll wrote: Trump called for a demonstration to put political pressure on Congress. You saying "disrupt" is you lying. 21OCT16-POST#882

NFBW wrote: It’s laid out in the Eastman Memo: 21OCT16-POST#886

1. VP Pence, presiding over the joint session (or Senate Pro Tempore Grassley, if Pence recuses himself), begins to open and count the ballots,….

2. When he gets to Arizona, he announces that he has multiple slates of electors, and so is going to defer decision on that until finishing the other States. [FIRST DISRUPTION >> }This would be the first break with the procedure set out in the Act.

3. At the end, he announces that because of the ongoing disputes in the 7 States, there are no electors that can be deemed validly appointed in those States.
{You don’t think this would be a disruption Correll >>>} Pence then gavels President Trump as re-elected there as well

{ EASTMAN tells DJT It’s disruptive>>>}4. Howls, of course, from the Democrats, who now claim, contrary to Tribe’s prior position, that 270 is required. So Pence says, fine. Pursuant to the 12th Amendment, no candidate has achieved the necessary majority. That sends the matter to the House, where the “the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote . . . .” Republicans currently control 26 of the state delegations, the bare majority needed to win that vote. President Trump is re-elected there as well.

5. One last piece. Assuming the Electoral Count Act process is followed and, upon getting the objections to the Arizona slates, the two houses break into their separate chambers, we should not allow the Electoral Count Act constraint on debate to control. That would mean that a prior legislature was determining the rules of the present one — a constitutional no-no (as Tribe has forcefully argued). So someone – Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, etc. – should demand normal rules (which includes the filibuster). That creates a stalemate that would give the state legislatures more time to weigh in to formally support the alternate slate of electors, if they had not already done so.


{But PENCE WAS A COWARD AFTER THE DISRUPTION of the riot was over AND STUCK WITH THE PROCESS >>>} 6. The main thing here is that Pence should do this without asking for permission – either from a vote of the joint session or from the Court. Let the other side challenge his actions in court, where Tribe (who in 2001 conceded the President of the Senate might be in charge of counting the votes) and others who would press a lawsuit would have their past position -- that these are non-justiciable political questions – thrown back at them, to get the lawsuit dismissed. The fact is that the Constitution assigns this power to the Vice President as the ultimate arbiter. We should take all of our actions with that in mind. TRUMP-Jan6-COUPattempt “”

 

[Faun]

You're the one flailing, you can't explain how any of it would have worked, yet claiming that a group of experts that know how the process works was going to try to do something they would have known would never work. It defies reason and logic, perhaps why you can't grasp it. There's a huge piece to your puzzle that's missing, better go try to find it.

You fail from three directions at once.

One is denying it could have happened. All that was needed was for a few Republicans in the right place to get those fake certificates into Pence's hand and for Pence to go through with it.

Another is, even if it were impossible, Trump and his lawyers thought it was possible and tried it.

The third is, again, even if it were impossible, their intent was to commit fraud and they attempted it.

In each of those cases, it's still a crime.

 

[OldFlame]

Nope. And that was "Plan A". Plan B was Pence refusing to certify and sending the electors back to the State legislatures to decide which to send back.

Mikey Pence destroyed their plans. That's why Meadows was standing around with a virtual gun in his mouth, Bruning documents and taking about going to prison, after Mikey dashed their criminal conspiracy.

So it wasn't legal for him to do that, that destroys your entire theory. And perfectly makes my point, thanks.

 

[cnm]

Explain how it's a straw man, because you can't answer it?

Because you are proposing a position for me to defend, then beating it up. That's how.

 

[Faun]

Sounds like there are rules around receiving more than one slate of electors? Why so if they're 'fake' and 'illegal'?

Because there have been cases, and will be cases in the future, where a state can't determine who the winning candidate is by the safe harbor deadline.

 

[OldFlame]

When he gets to Arizona, he announces that he has multiple slates of electors, and so is going to defer decision on that until finishing the other States. [FIRST DISRUPTION >> }This would be the first break with the procedure set out in the Act.

3. At the end, he announces that because of the ongoing disputes in the 7 States, there are no electors that can be deemed validly appointed in those States.
{You don’t think this would be a disruption Correll >>>} Pence then gavels President Trump as re-elected there as well

The above two points is what destroys your theory.

If it is illegal for there to be more than one slate of electors, as claimed in the indictment, no such announcement could have taken place, period.

How would there be an ongoing dispute when there can only legally be one slate of certified electors for Pence to count? That scenario could never happen.

 

[OldFlame]

You fail from three directions at once.

One is denying it could have happened. All that was needed was for a few Republicans in the right place to get those fake certificates into Pence's hand and for Pence to go through with it.

Another is, even if it were impossible, Trump and his lawyers thought it was possible and tried it.

The third is, again, even if it were impossible, their intent was to commit fraud and they attempted it.

In each of those cases, it's still a crime.

Complete and utter bullshit.

 

[OldFlame]

Because you are proposing a position for me to defend, then beating it up. That's how.

You're the one with the theory of how it was going to work and can't defend it, not my problem.

 

[cnm]

So no formal process for a state to send in their certified certificate, it's just handed off to a senator's aide?

That's the process for an uncertified certificate.

 

[OldFlame]

Because there have been cases, and will be cases in the future, where a state can't determine who the winning candidate is by the safe harbor deadline.

So now you're changing your statement that if two slates are sent that one of them is always 'fake' and therefore, illegal?

Make up your mind.

 

[cnm]

You're the one with the theory of how it was going to work and can't defend it, not my problem.

No, you'll just flail around spreading bullshit happily.

 

[OldFlame]

That's the process for an uncertified certificate.

So there's a process on how to handle a 'fake' and illegal certificate? Why? It's 'fake' and illegal.

Now it's just 'uncertified'.

You people need to get your stories straight.

 

[cnm]

You're the one with the theory of how it was going to work and can't defend it, not my problem.

No, this is all your invention. A strawman.

So people who are experts and know this system far better than any of us thought they could send uncertified electors to Congress and they would be counted?

 

[OldFlame]

No, this is all your invention. A strawman.

No, that's the conclusion of what would have had to happen for your 'theory' to have played out.