Zone1 "Nothing creates itself"

[kyzr]

you can't take out the answer to the question to re-ask the question, the essence to be causes that atom to pop into existence. Hence calling it the most finite source.

I'd replace the word "essence" with "energy". Essence reminds me of "Dr. Strangelove".

This universe began with a spec of energy about the size of an atom, it cooled and expanded according to the specific laws of this universe.

Fundamental constants: Is the universe fine-tuned for life?

Imagine a universe with extremely strong gravity. Stars would be able to form from very little material. They would be smaller than in our universe and live for a much shorter amount of time. But could life evolve there? It took human life billions of years to evolve on Earth under the...

phys.org

Is our universe tuned for life? | Astronomy.com

Our current models of cosmology have 29 constants. If any were even slightly different, the cosmos might not be as life-friendly a place.

www.astronomy.com

 

[ding]

Didn't G-d create a whole universe from nothing? How did he do it? He made light and now we understand how, nuclear fusion. Maybe we'll learn more about his methods and we'll create our own universes, just the way he did.

No. According to the account of Genesis God didn't "make" light. Light appeared. As in "let there be" light. The only thing God created was the heavens and the earth aka the universe. Everything else unfolded over time which is what that account was saying.

 

[kyzr]

No. According to the account of Genesis God didn't "make" light. Light appeared. As in "let there be" light. The only thing God created was the heavens and the earth aka the universe. Everything else unfolded over time which is what that account was saying.

Moses wrote Genesis about 1500 BC. The world was a very simple place at that time. Science was very basic.
A more modern description of what happened in Genesis is this:
God created this dimension with the physical laws that govern this dimension and the "big bang". The "big bang" was a release of a tiny spec of energy (God's essence?) thru an aperture about the size of an atom. That super-high energy or light, expanded and cooled to form our universe.

 

[alang1216]

No. According to the account of Genesis God didn't "make" light. Light appeared. As in "let there be" light. The only thing God created was the heavens and the earth aka the universe. Everything else unfolded over time which is what that account was saying.

A distinction without a difference, at least one I can see.

 

[hobelim]

He made light and now we understand how, nuclear fusion.

"In the beginning" when God created heaven and earth, the light spoken into existence is a reference to the Law being given as "a light to the nations" which has nothing whatever to do with the Big Bang, the beginning of the solar system, the earth and sky, or the first humans.

Much less nuclear fusion. derp.

The Law which teaches the intelligent to distinguish between light and darkness, right and wrong, clean and unclean, good and evil, heaven and hell, life and death, (sanity and insanity) etc., caused division on a planet already in existence that was without shape or form (lawless) and void (exceedingly pointless) where darkness (superstition, ignorance) covered the face of the deep (the unknown). And the "Spirit of God" hovered over the waters (took pity on the inhabitants of the earth) and said, "Let there be light". And then Moses gave the Law creating a world above, heaven, the realm of the living (sane) whose firmament, basis, is the Law and world below, hell, a lawless place of pain and unspeakable suffering, insanity, the realm of the dead.

These were simple people with absolutely no knowledge of the universe but were expert in the use of metaphors and allegory, well known literary devices and teaching tools, when most of the "wild beats of the field", the rest of the people, were illiterate, superstitious, insane, and violent.

The forbidden fruit is the bullshit of a talking serpent, a con man, the stars of the ancient world who mesmerized people with their sorcery, the magical arts, what is now known as mind control.

Apparently, not much has changed.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

So God didn't create Himself. So who did?

You don't even believe you were created, but you need to believe someone who says He is ETERNAL had to be created.

 

[BreezeWood]

the light spoken into existence is a reference to the Law being given as "a light to the nations"

there they go again the religion of servitude and denial - who's law being given for what purpose to whom, moses the liar, surly not the persecution and victimization of the innocent - embedded in all three desert religions.

 

[kyzr]

You don't even believe you were created, but you need to believe someone who says He is ETERNAL had to be created.

Exactly. "Time" doesn't exist in God's dimension.

 

[ding]

Moses wrote Genesis about 1500 BC. The world was a very simple place at that time. Science was very basic.
A more modern description of what happened in Genesis is this:
God created this dimension with the physical laws that govern this dimension and the "big bang". The "big bang" was a release of a tiny spec of energy (God's essence?) thru an aperture about the size of an atom. That super-high energy or light, expanded and cooled to form our universe.

I believe the 1st eleven chapters of Genesis were accounts that had been passed down orally from generation to generation for thousands of years before they were recorded in writing by Moses or whoever the author of Genesis was.

I don't believe it was ever intended to be a scientific explanation for creation. I believe it was a departure from polytheism and an explanation of the origin question.

 

[alang1216]

"In the beginning" when God created heaven and earth, the light spoken into existence is a reference to the Law being given as "a light to the nations" which has nothing whatever to do with the Big Bang, the beginning of the solar system, the earth and sky, or the first humans.

Much less nuclear fusion. derp.

The Law which teaches the intelligent to distinguish between light and darkness, right and wrong, clean and unclean, good and evil, heaven and hell, life and death, (sanity and insanity) etc., caused division on a planet already in existence that was without shape or form (lawless) and void (exceedingly pointless) where darkness (superstition, ignorance) covered the face of the deep (the unknown). And the "Spirit of God" hovered over the waters (took pity on the inhabitants of the earth) and said, "Let there be light". And then Moses gave the Law creating a world above, heaven, the realm of the living (sane) whose firmament, basis, is the Law and world below, hell, a lawless place of pain and unspeakable suffering, insanity, the realm of the dead.

These were simple people with absolutely no knowledge of the universe but were expert in the use of metaphors and allegory, well known literary devices and teaching tools, when most of the "wild beats of the field", the rest of the people, were illiterate, superstitious, insane, and violent.

The forbidden fruit is the bullshit of a talking serpent, a con man, the stars of the ancient world who mesmerized people with their sorcery, the magical arts, what is now known as mind control.

Apparently, not much has changed.

From the Gospel of Hobelim? Sorry, I've only read the original 4 Gospels and none of this is in there.

 

[ding]

A distinction without a difference, at least one I can see.

Actually it's quite a big distinction. It took 380,000 years for the universe to cool enough to allow radiation to decouple from matter. Until then there was no light. The universe was opaque. Stars weren't created until after that. The first light that appeared wasn't from stars it was from radiation from the creation of the universe.

The Early Universe

 

[ding]

"In the beginning" when God created heaven and earth, the light spoken into existence is a reference to the Law being given as "a light to the nations" which has nothing whatever to do with the Big Bang, the beginning of the solar system, the earth and sky, or the first humans.

Much less nuclear fusion. derp.

The Law which teaches the intelligent to distinguish between light and darkness, right and wrong, clean and unclean, good and evil, heaven and hell, life and death, (sanity and insanity) etc., caused division on a planet already in existence that was without shape or form (lawless) and void (exceedingly pointless) where darkness (superstition, ignorance) covered the face of the deep (the unknown). And the "Spirit of God" hovered over the waters (took pity on the inhabitants of the earth) and said, "Let there be light". And then Moses gave the Law creating a world above, heaven, the realm of the living (sane) whose firmament, basis, is the Law and world below, hell, a lawless place of pain and unspeakable suffering, insanity, the realm of the dead.

These were simple people with absolutely no knowledge of the universe but were expert in the use of metaphors and allegory, well known literary devices and teaching tools, when most of the "wild beats of the field", the rest of the people, were illiterate, superstitious, insane, and violent.

The forbidden fruit is the bullshit of a talking serpent, a con man, the stars of the ancient world who mesmerized people with their sorcery, the magical arts, what is now known as mind control.

Apparently, not much has changed.

Says the guy who can't admit that Leviticus 18:22 is a command against having homosexual relations.

 

[kyzr]

I believe the 1st eleven chapters of Genesis were accounts that had been passed down orally from generation to generation for thousands of years before they were recorded in writing by Moses or whoever the author of Genesis was.

I don't believe it was ever intended to be a scientific explanation for creation. I believe it was a departure from polytheism and an explanation of the origin question.

1. What you believe should be accompanied by a credible link supporting your belief. Unless it has no basis in fact? I have hard time picturing anything being passed down orally over time. I made sense to me that Moses wrote it since he had a direct line to the burning bush. That Genesis makes scientific sense gives it even more credibility.

2. This link below shows that other religions have similar descriptions of God.

‘Now I am become Death, the Destroyer of Worlds’ – the Bhagavad Gita explained

What constitutes righteous action in the face of moral ambiguity and the inevitability of violence? This question is at the heart of The Bhagavad Gita.

theconversation.com

Oppenheimer later referenced another verse from the Bhagavad Gita when recalling his state of mind as he witnessed the Trinity explosion in the New Mexico desert on 16 July, 1945:

If the radiance of a thousand suns were to burst at once into the sky, that would be like the splendour of the mighty one.

These verses refer to the sublime form, “Vishwarupa”, Lord Krishna takes in the Bhagavad Gita when he reveals his divine nature to the warrior prince, Arjuna.
“Who are you?” asks Arjuna.
“I am Time,” replies Krishna, “powerful destroyer of worlds, grown immense here to annihilate these men”.

 

[alang1216]

Actually it's quite a big distinction. It took 380,000 years for the universe to cool enough to allow radiation to decouple from matter. Until then there was no light. The universe was opaque. Stars weren't created until after that. The first light that appeared wasn't from stars it was from radiation from the creation of the universe.

So God didn't create the universe which led to the light? A distinction without a difference.

 

[ding]

1. What you believe should be accompanied by a credible link supporting your belief. Unless it has no basis in fact? I have hard time picturing anything being passed down orally over time. I made sense to me that Moses wrote it since he had a direct line to the burning bush. That Genesis makes scientific sense gives it even more credibility.

2. This link below shows that other religions have similar descriptions of God.

‘Now I am become Death, the Destroyer of Worlds’ – the Bhagavad Gita explained

What constitutes righteous action in the face of moral ambiguity and the inevitability of violence? This question is at the heart of The Bhagavad Gita.

theconversation.com

Oppenheimer later referenced another verse from the Bhagavad Gita when recalling his state of mind as he witnessed the Trinity explosion in the New Mexico desert on 16 July, 1945:

These verses refer to the sublime form, “Vishwarupa”, Lord Krishna takes in the Bhagavad Gita when he reveals his divine nature to the warrior prince, Arjuna.
“Who are you?” asks Arjuna.
“I am Time,” replies Krishna, “powerful destroyer of worlds, grown immense here to annihilate these men”.

Don’t believe it then.

 

[ding]

So God didn't create the universe which led to the light? A distinction without a difference.

Oh, that distinction. Still quite a difference. According to the account God created existence and then everything proceeded from there over time. That’s what it is saying. Everything didn’t happen all at once as some might believe from a casual reading of the account.

 

[ding]

Oral tradition | Storytelling, Cultural Preservation & Memory

Oral tradition, the first and still most widespread mode of human communication. Far more than “just talking,” oral tradition refers to a dynamic and highly diverse oral-aural medium for evolving, storing, and transmitting knowledge, art, and ideas. It is typically contrasted with literacy, with

www.britannica.com

 

[alang1216]

Oh, that distinction. Still quite a difference. According to the account God created existence and then everything proceeded from there over time. That’s what it is saying. Everything didn’t happen all at once as some might believe from a casual reading of the account.

You mean the universe took more than 5 days to create? We're agreed there.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Explain how anything can create itself.

It doesn't exist, then it does.

That was easy. "Creating itself" is a fanciful way of looking at it.

 

[hobelim]

From the Gospel of Hobelim?

Yes. This is my flesh. Eat it and you will never know what it is to die.

Sorry, I've only read the original 4 Gospels and none of this is in there.

lol... Sure it is....

"Here lies the test; the light has come into the world but man preferred darkness to light because their deeds were evil." John 3:19...

What other light is being spoken of here if not the Law that was given as "a light to the nations"?

Jesus was not speaking about the BB, duh, anymore than Genesis, but it was a direct reference to the creation account when light, the law, was spoken into existence creating from absolutely nothing but reasoning, Logos, a world above, my world, and the world below, your world

Anyway, Genesis, the creation account and its meaning, is what was being discussed here.

Not the 4 gospels. Maybe you should read the OT. Everything that Jesus made known he had drawn from what was written there. You will never understand a single word in the Gospels if you do not have a grasp of or at least a basic understanding about what was written in the OT.

Smarten up..