Zelensky Reveals He’s Working with Biden on Scheme for 10 Years of Military Aid

[Rogue AI]

Based on what the bloated mofo has stated.

Link?

 

[excalibur]

These threats were here when Trump was President. And nobody would be blaming trump for was he didn't start and don'thave any soldiers fighting. Just be glad Trump is not president.

You people are just so stupid.

White House freezes Ukraine military package that includes lethal weapons

Officials prepped $100 million worth of arms as Russia massed troops on the border, then put it on pause as the Biden-Putin summit approached.

www.politico.com

Biden admin holds back extra military aid to Kyiv amid diplomatic push

A source familiar with the matter, however, said there are other options for further aid to Ukraine, including a much larger package in the event of further incursion by Russia.

www.nbcnews.com

White House Delays Moving Military Assistance to Ukraine

And Congress is getting impatient.

foreignpolicy.com

Biden admin carefully examining legal issues around providing arms to Ukraine

A Republican congressional aide said there was bipartisan frustration with the pace of aid, but Biden admin officials said legal review was not slowing things down.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[para bellum]

Biden and NATO had done a pretty good job of stopping Putin until you idiot Republicans decided to start playing games.

Oh BS. The US and NATO gave Ukraine one week when Russia invaded in Feb 2022.

Ukraine's neighbors stepped up to help immediately, with tanks and artillery and ammunition. Lithuania, Latvia, Poland, Czech Republic. With no help from us, the Ukrainians pushed Russia back from Kiev, and forced Putin to consolidate and focus on the Donbas.

Only then did the Western European countries step up and offered some self-propelled artillery, and finally in May the US offered some aid in the form of monkey-model M777 towed howitzers. The first of those arrived in July- 5 months into the conflict.

Biden was always cowed by Putin, and last to the party. He only provided military aid when he was shamed into it by our NATO allies. Guided weapons from the US came after other NATO allies had provided them first, and then in small numbers that were totally inadequate to the length of the front that Ukraine was trying to defend. And they came with strings attached- that Ukraine could not use them to attack targets inside Russia, and the longest-range and heaviest munitions were withheld.

The time for decisive action was the fall of 2022, when Russia was on her heels. But Biden and the Western European countries were afraid of pushing Putin too far, and held back the weapons and ammunition that Ukraine needed to finish the job.

Instead we focused on providing air defenses, and just let Ukraine take the pounding from Putin's missile and drone attacks.

Since then the conflict has been essentially frozen, with both sides taking high causalities, in a war of attrition that the US and NATO seem perfectly happy to continue indefinitely.

Republicans were on board with helping Ukraine, and asked only for an Inspector General to be appointed to provide some oversight on the aid delivery. That was a reasonable request given the history, but it was denied by dems- and like everything else, you guys turned the war into a political football for US electioneering.

The real loser being Ukraine, naturally...

 

[IM2]

The map tells a different story, try getting informed. What intelligence? All this administration does is parrot Ukrainian propaganda. It's pathetic.

I am informed. Putin was losing until you republicans started getting stupid.

 

[IM2]

Oh BS. The US and NATO gave Ukraine one week when Russia invaded in Feb 2022.

Ukraine's neighbors stepped up to help immediately, with tanks and artillery and ammunition. Lithuania, Latvia, Poland, Czech Republic. With no help from us, the Ukrainians pushed Russia back from Kiev, and forced Putin to consolidate and focus on the Donbas.

Only then did the Western European countries step up and offered some self-propelled artillery, and finally in May the US offered some aid in the form of monkey-model M777 towed howitzers. The first of those arrived in July- 5 months into the conflict.

Biden was always cowed by Putin, and last to the party. He only provided military aid when he was shamed into it by our NATO allies. Guided weapons from the US came after other NATO allies had provided them first, and then in small numbers that were totally inadequate to the length of the front that Ukraine was trying to defend. And they came with strings attached- that Ukraine could not use them to attack targets inside Russia, and the longest-range and heaviest munitions were withheld.

The time for decisive action was the fall of 2022, when Russia was on her heels. But Biden and the Western European countries were afraid of pushing Putin too far, and held back the weapons and ammunition that Ukraine needed to finish the job.

Instead we focused on providing air defenses, and just let Ukraine take the pounding from Putin's missile and drone attacks.

Since then the conflict has been essentially frozen, with both sides taking high causalities, in a war of attrition that the US and NATO seem perfectly happy to continue indefinitely.

Republicans were on board with helping Ukraine, and asked only for an Inspector General to be appointed to provide some oversight on the aid delivery. That was a reasonable request given the history, but it was denied by dems- and like everything else, you guys turned the war into a political football for US electioneering.

The real loser being Ukraine, naturally...

Bullshit.

 

[Rogue AI]

I am informed. Putin was losing until you republicans started getting stupid.

How do you figure? The Russians weren't losing ground they weren't willing to give, the Ukrainians weren't winning any battles. At no point were the Ukrainians ever winning. This has all been discussed at length over the years. Most of it revolves around the denying Russian military history and doctrine in lieu of Western/Ukrainian propaganda.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Bullshit! Stop raping American taxpayers and future generations for the most corrupt Western nation, Ukraine.

And then we'll be told we have to rebuild that mess too.

Meanwhile, Congress hasn't modernized SSI since 1989, so nothing for the most needy Americans. But billions for Ukraine, billions for illegals.

This CANNOT last.

​

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said that the United States and Ukrainian governments are “working on a bilateral security agreement” that would effectively send aid to Ukraine over the next ten years.​

​

In a statement, Zelensky said he had been in discussion with House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries (D-NY), thanking “him and all the congressmen for their support” of Ukraine and for the $61 billion aid package out of a $95 billion foreign aid package.​

​

...​

Zelensky Reveals He's Working with Biden on Scheme for 10 Years of Military Aid

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said that the United States and Ukrainian governments are "working on a bilateral security agreement" that would effectiv

www.dailyfetched.com

How many years have we been giving military aid to Israel?

 

[para bellum]

How do you figure? The Russians weren't losing ground they weren't willing to give, the Ukrainians weren't winning any battles. At no point were the Ukrainians ever winning.

"Winning" for Ukraine means denying Putin's ambitions for Ukraine, it does not mean defeating Russia militarily.

The Russians were pushed back starting around the end of March and that was pretty much continuous until the end of November. Ukraine had all the momentum the fall of '22. Ukraine won all the battles.

Russia consolidated forces in Eastern Ukraine and it's been frozen ever since. The map today is not substantially different than it was in November '22.

As it stands today:

Ukraine — War Mapper

www.warmapper.org

 

[para bellum]

Bullshit.

No it is not bullshit. Biden was ALWAYS late to the party. He vetoed the Lithuanian MiG's in 2022. He would not provide the promised MQ-1C drones, or US tanks and IFV's in 2022 when they would have been most effective. The artillery we sent in the summer of '22 was stripped of the digital targeting computers and inductive fuse setters, so they could not fire Excalibur guided shells. He hemmed and hawed for months over Denmark and Norway providing their F-16's.

The Western aid did not stop in 2022, there was a buildup for an offensive in 2023 with the bulk of western weapons used in that attempt.

It failed. All those new Bde's could not cut Russian forces in the Zap offensive and the battle lines are the same today as they were at the end of 2022.

We have spent $113 Bn on that war, not counting the $61 Bn just passed. That is 2-3 years equivalent of Russian total military spending, and does not count the aid provided by NATO allies and others in the Ukraine Contact Group.

For you to lay all the failures on a few republicans in the US House is the bullshit. It should be obvious to anyone by now that Biden and NATO have no interest in Ukraine defeating Russia.

 

[Rogue AI]

"Winning" for Ukraine means denying Putin's ambitions for Ukraine, it does not mean defeating Russia militarily.

The Russians were pushed back starting around the end of March and that was pretty much continuous until the end of November. Ukraine had all the momentum the fall of '22. Ukraine won all the battles.

Russia consolidated forces in Eastern Ukraine and it's been frozen ever since. The map today is not substantially different than it was in November '22.

View attachment 940188

View attachment 940189

As it stands today:

Ukraine — War Mapper

www.warmapper.org

Sorry, but I simply don't see it that way. The Russian strategy in Ukraine is far more similar to the strategy used in Chechnya. The entire northern front in the beginning months was to draw Ukrainian troops from Donbas to the undefended areas of Kiev and north and east of that. The Russians withdrew, they were not pushed. The push to Kiev locked in thousands of Ukrainian troops to the north, they are still there. Kiev was left virtually undefended, the Russians withdrew once the Ukrainians were committed. There is literally no evidence the Ukrainians ever had the 'upper hand' at any time.

 

[Dragonlady]

Bullshit! Stop raping American taxpayers and future generations for the most corrupt Western nation, Ukraine.

And then we'll be told we have to rebuild that mess too.

Meanwhile, Congress hasn't modernized SSI since 1989, so nothing for the most needy Americans. But billions for Ukraine, billions for illegals.

This CANNOT last.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said that the United States and Ukrainian governments are “working on a bilateral security agreement” that would effectively send aid to Ukraine over the next ten years.

In a statement, Zelensky said he had been in discussion with House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries (D-NY), thanking “him and all the congressmen for their support” of Ukraine and for the $61 billion aid package out of a $95 billion foreign aid package.

...​

Zelensky Reveals He's Working with Biden on Scheme for 10 Years of Military Aid

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said that the United States and Ukrainian governments are "working on a bilateral security agreement" that would effectiv

www.dailyfetched.com

You seem triggered by the idea of the United States, developing a new market for its military equipment and setting up deals for 10 years down the road. I thought you’re right wingers wanted NATO members to arm their own countries. Now you’re saying you don’t want the United States to sell arms to NATO members????

Every time you post this bullshit, you expose yourself as being one of Putin’s puppets. Take your Russian propaganda and shove it up your ass.

 

[Dragonlady]

No it is not bullshit. Biden was ALWAYS late to the party. He vetoed the Lithuanian MiG's in 2022. He would not provide the promised MQ-1C drones, or US tanks and IFV's in 2022 when they would have been most effective. The artillery we sent in the summer of '22 was stripped of the digital targeting computers and inductive fuse setters, so they could not fire Excalibur guided shells. He hemmed and hawed for months over Denmark and Norway providing their F-16's.

The Western aid did not stop in 2022, there was a buildup for an offensive in 2023 with the bulk of western weapons used in that attempt.

It failed. All those new Bde's could not cut Russian forces in the Zap offensive and the battle lines are the same today as they were at the end of 2022.

We have spent $113 Bn on that war, not counting the $61 Bn just passed. That is 2-3 years equivalent of Russian total military spending, and does not count the aid provided by NATO allies and others in the Ukraine Contact Group.

For you to lay all the failures on a few republicans in the US House is the bullshit. It should be obvious to anyone by now that Biden and NATO have no interest in Ukraine defeating Russia.

Biden vetoed the MIGS Because the USA couldn’t either service nor supply them. He vetoed the American jets because it would’ve taken them too long to receive the training they would need to use them. The. need was for immediate help.

When it became obvious that the war was going to drag on, then giving them fighter planes made more sense, because they had the time to get the planes and trains pilots.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Biden and NATO had done a pretty good job of stopping Putin until you idiot Republicans decided to start playing games.

You mean like in Feb '22 when Harris was sent to tell Putin that Ukraine was going to join NATO?

How'd that work out?

 

[para bellum]

Sorry, but I simply don't see it that way. The Russian strategy in Ukraine is far more similar to the strategy used in Chechnya. The entire northern front in the beginning months was to draw Ukrainian troops from Donbas to the undefended areas of Kiev and north and east of that. The Russians withdrew, they were not pushed. The push to Kiev locked in thousands of Ukrainian troops to the north, they are still there. Kiev was left virtually undefended, the Russians withdrew once the Ukrainians were committed. There is literally no evidence the Ukrainians ever had the 'upper hand' at any time.

That narrative is an old one, and is completely refuted by the losses suffered by the 4th Guards Tank Division and other elements of the 1st Guards Tank Army. Those are the elite Russian armored units that are tasked with the defense of Moscow.

The destroyed armor from the attempt to take Kiev is well documented by Oryx, and was approximately 60% of the post-1990 tank inventory of the RF.

You do not sacrifice your best armored units on a "feint".

The subsequent losses during the Kharkiv offensive in September, and the cutting of the MSR at Kupiansk resulted in the loss of Izium and Lyman, and the end of the "pincer" that was supposed to encircle the AFU and take the Donbas. The Russians were routed, and had to retreat to the left bank of the Donets. The Ukrainians retook 12,000 sq. km. of territory in that offensive. That was followed by the loss of Kherson and the retreat to the left bank of the Dnipro in the south.

And that's where the control of territory remains today, 1-1/2 years later, as you can see by the maps I posted.

 

[para bellum]

Biden vetoed the MIGS Because the USA couldn’t either service nor supply them. He vetoed the American jets because it would’ve taken them too long to receive the training they would need to use them. The. need was for immediate help.

That is made up nonsense. The MiG's were in Polish and Slovakian (sorry, I said Lithuania earlier) inventory and Ukraine already knows how to service them. The US had no part in keeping those jets in the air even when Slovakia and Poland were operating them.

It took a year to get the green light on those.

When it became obvious that the war was going to drag on, then giving them fighter planes made more sense, because they had the time to get the planes and trains pilots.

Ukraine was asking for jets in 2022. The Congress authorized something like $100 Million in funding for training Ukrainian pilots on F-16 in the very first US aid package. It was a year before Biden got on board, and only after Denmark and the Netherlands offered jets.

It's been another year pass, and they still have not received any jets.

It's not just jets that Biden slow-walked. It's tanks, self-propelled guns, IFV's, EW/ECM, drones, counter-battery radars, etc. The entire panapoly of which we have in inventory, and have only sent in symbolic numbers.

The US has been LAST to offer any capability that is not already present in Ukraine. Even your country provided the M777's with the digital fire computers and inductive fuse setters (before us btw), and included the Excalibur rounds. Biden had that all removed from the guns we sent. He dragged his feet for months on HIMARS...

The countries that are showing actual concern? The Nordic and Baltic countries. No one else is giving a damn.

I was 100% on board with defending Ukraine. I believed we had an obligation under the Budapest Memorandum, and I just thought it was the right thing to do. There was a window of opportunity at the end of 2022, and it was allowed to close. That will not happen again.

I think it's lost, and Ukraine should make whatever accords with Putin they have to make. The west is not going to save them. The US and NATO will happily sit back and watch them bleed Russia indefinitely, and if a few hundred thousand Ukrainians die in the process, oh well you have to break some eggs...

I am NOT on board with that.

 

[Rogue AI]

That narrative is an old one, and is completely refuted by the losses suffered by the 4th Guards Tank Division and other elements of the 1st Guards Tank Army. Those are the elite Russian armored units that are tasked with the defense of Moscow.

The destroyed armor from the attempt to take Kiev is well documented by Oryx, and was approximately 60% of the post-1990 tank inventory of the RF.

You do not sacrifice your best armored units on a "feint".

The subsequent losses during the Kharkiv offensive in September, and the cutting of the MSR at Kupiansk resulted in the loss of Izium and Lyman, and the end of the "pincer" that was supposed to encircle the AFU and take the Donbas. The Russians were routed, and had to retreat to the left bank of the Donets. The Ukrainians retook 12,000 sq. km. of territory in that offensive. That was followed by the loss of Kherson and the retreat to the left bank of the Dnipro in the south.

And that's where the control of territory remains today, 1-1/2 years later, as you can see by the maps I posted.

Hardly, your narrative is illogical, and sounds a lot like Ukrainian propaganda. In order to accept it, one would have to imagine the Russians abandoned a strategy proven to win a war in lieu of some Western strategy that was completely unproven. That's foolish. As to Kherson, the Russians willfully retreated, leaving an empty husk with no running water, no electricity, right before the start of winter, it wasn't a loss, nor were they pushed. The Ukrainians waited three days to enter the city because they feared a trap. You folks all seem to ignore that Russian doctrine supports strategic withdrawal, whereas the British and Ukrainians, who provide most of the silly propaganda supplied to the West do not. The Ukraine has not taken an inch the Russians weren't willing to give.

 

[para bellum]

Hardly, your narrative is illogical, and sounds a lot like Ukrainian propaganda. In order to accept it, one would have to imagine the Russians abandoned a strategy proven to win a war in lieu of some Western strategy that was completely unproven.

You're going to have to do better than that. Seriously, the Russian losses around Kiev and the Kharkiv offensives speak for themselves.

Is driving your elite tank divisions into town in parade formation with no infantry support, so they can be blown to hell by Javelins and Nlaws "proven strategy"?

They retreated from those areas because they could not sustain their presence there. Why do you think they have spent the past year trying to take back Kupiansk? Do you want me to post the rail map? Would you understand the significance if I did? (I get the impression that you would not)

That's foolish. As to Kherson, the Russians willfully retreated, leaving an empty husk with no running water, no electricity, right before the start of winter, it wasn't a loss, nor were they pushed. The Ukrainians waited three days to enter the city because they feared a trap. You folks all seem to ignore that Russian doctrine supports strategic withdrawal, whereas the British and Ukrainians, who provide most of the silly propaganda supplied to the West do not. The Ukraine has not taken an inch the Russians weren't willing to give.

Um, "strategic withdrawal" is still withdrawal. Why take Kherson in the first place if they didn't intend to keep it? Why did Putin fire Surovikin after he ordered the withdrawal, and put Gerasimov in charge? Why give up the right bank if the objective is to take Odessa and make a land bridge to Transnistria? Does Russia plan an amphibious invasion with all the Black Sea phibs sunk or heavily damaged, and the Bosphorus closed to warships?

Are you unaware that there has been no significant movement of the front for 1-1/2 years? Is that what a "proven strategy to win a war" looks like?

 

[marvin martian]

Bullshit! Stop raping American taxpayers and future generations for the most corrupt Western nation, Ukraine.

And then we'll be told we have to rebuild that mess too.

Meanwhile, Congress hasn't modernized SSI since 1989, so nothing for the most needy Americans. But billions for Ukraine, billions for illegals.

This CANNOT last.

​

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said that the United States and Ukrainian governments are “working on a bilateral security agreement” that would effectively send aid to Ukraine over the next ten years.​

​

In a statement, Zelensky said he had been in discussion with House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries (D-NY), thanking “him and all the congressmen for their support” of Ukraine and for the $61 billion aid package out of a $95 billion foreign aid package.​

​

...​

Zelensky Reveals He's Working with Biden on Scheme for 10 Years of Military Aid

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said that the United States and Ukrainian governments are "working on a bilateral security agreement" that would effectiv

www.dailyfetched.com

This is called a "long con".

 

[Rogue AI]

You're going to have to do better than that. Seriously, the Russian losses around Kiev and the Kharkiv offensives speak for themselves.

Is driving your elite tank divisions into town in parade formation with no infantry support, so they can be blown to hell by Javelins and Nlaws "proven strategy"?

They retreated from those areas because they could not sustain their presence there. Why do you think they have spent the past year trying to take back Kupiansk? Do you want me to post the rail map? Would you understand the significance if I did? (I get the impression that you would not)

Um, "strategic withdrawal" is still withdrawal. Why take Kherson in the first place if they didn't intend to keep it? Why did Putin fire Surovikin after he ordered the withdrawal, and put Gerasimov in charge? Why give up the right bank if the objective is to take Odessa and make a land bridge to Transnistria? Does Russia plan an amphibious invasion with all the Black Sea phibs sunk or heavily damaged, and the Bosphorus closed to warships?

Are you unaware that there has been no significant movement of the front for 1-1/2 years? Is that what a "proven strategy to win a war" looks like?

What losses around Kiev? They were never closer than seven miles out. Kiev of undefended. Who destroyed those suburbs? Ukraine did, as the Russians withdrew in a mostly orderly fashion. True, some units were caught flat-footed, most were not. Those northern troops returned to Belarus and moved to Donbas. The Ukrainians on the otherhand were forced to stay in the north. The result was Russia adding four oblasts to their territory. After the referendums the Russians loudly and clearly announced they would fortify those new additions. Which led to the failed Ukrainian counter-offensive. Adding billions of dollars of the best Western equipment to the scrap heap is exactly how you beat the West. Once the counter-offensive failed the Russians resumed their own offensive and have been taking new ground since. You got conned by Ukrainian propaganda.

 

[marvin martian]

Have they not contained the russian aggressors?

You voted for the Russian aggressors, dumbass.