A Muslim Brit nails it again on the New Zealand attack

[Fort Fun Indiana]

So, hardly secular

Our godless constitution and laws are clearly secular. Notice that the loons trying to put ID into schools lose. And it is now every time. Notice gay marriage is now legal in all 50 states.

So go ahead and compare that to Islamic societies where homosexuality itself is illegal and where teaching evolution is illegal, with both punishable by violence up to and including death. I like it when other people do the work of making my points for me.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

It is true I consider the American Taliban the equivalent of Muslim fundamentalists.

It is true that that is silly. Maybe a counterpart, but certainly not equivalent. And the fact that the counterpoint you bring up is much milder than the Taliban only furthers my points.

Many 'Leftists' would have us believe they are equivalent, or are only milder due to the efforts to keep them in check. Many 'Righties' would have us believe they are milder because they have a better god. They are both wrong. They are milder because western Christianity has benefitted from the type of reform that missed Islam. We can thank classical liberalism and scientific enlightenment for that. Both secular, by the way.

Western Liberals should be the first and strongest allies of the moderate muslims trying to reform their currently very ill and illiberal religion. I know I am one of them.

 

[Tehon]

Interesting thread. I made it about halfway before it became too depressing to read further. It's yet another stark example of how divided the US and western civilization is. Anyone who thinks these massive differences are just going to magically resolve themselves without great upheaval is deluded. It sucks to know I'm going to live to witness the end of the west.

In all probability you won't see the end of Western civilization. Cheer up, at least you get cheap gas and a strong dollar.

 

[impuretrash]

Interesting thread. I made it about halfway before it became too depressing to read further. It's yet another stark example of how divided the US and western civilization is. Anyone who thinks these massive differences are just going to magically resolve themselves without great upheaval is deluded. It sucks to know I'm going to live to witness the end of the west.

In all probability you won't see the end of Western civilization. Cheer up, at least you get cheap gas and a strong dollar.

It's not just a probability but a certainty that a democrat will be elected president soon and they will be expected to follow through with a left-wing agenda which includes limiting and punishing speech and taking away gun rights while simultaneously pushing the same sort of immigration policies that inspires civilians to commit hate speech violations and racist aggression in the first place. A self fulfilling prophecy that will spiral out of control very quickly.

 

[candycorn]

Amazing how every Mac thread winds up in the same place. Regardless of whom participates, it’s always the other guy’s fault. Strange how that happens....every single time.

... and another Regressive chimes in to make a thread about a liberal Muslim, about me.

And they bitch when I align them with Islamic fundamentalists.

I do love this place.
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We've covered it about 200 posts ago. You still equate mailing bombs and shooting up mosques with those who make idiotic comments while seeking office. There is no reason to go back into it since you're clearly unwilling to acknowledge your own positions.

Again, every thread you start winds up here...
Is that someone else's fault or yours?

 

[SweetSue92]

Every Mac thread:

Regressives suck

Conservatives suck

I, Mac, am a god among men.

And everyone is obsessed with me. /and scene

 

[JoeB131]

Maajid Nawaz is trying to bring reform and liberalization to his beloved religion.

if he's trying to reform it, he doesn't love it.

He believes there are people who claim to be liberal who are making it much tougher for him by, in effect, aligning themselves with Islamic fundamentalists against this effort.

Do you agree with that opinion, or do you disagree with it?

Naw, that's retarded. Our problem with the Islamic World isn't their religion, it's our policies.

 

[JoeB131]

The only thing I can deduce is that the OP lacks the ability to think for himself.

Naw, here's the thing about Stormy Mac.

He starts out with a premise.

Someone points out the flaws of his premise. His premises are almost always flawed.

He then whines that he is on the side of the angels,and "Wingers" (Read, anyone who has an opinion that isn't his) are stifling dialog.

In this case, he starts out with the premise that the problem in the Middle East is Islamic Fundamentalism.

No, the problem in the Middle East is western imperialist policy. If they have anti-western ideas, it's because they see these things as cultural imperialism. But their use of violence is to strike back at their oppressors.

50 years ago, the Zionists and Oil companies had us all convinced that the Arabs were all communists.

 

[JoeB131]

And here is a perfect illustration of a liberal failing badly on this issue.

In the bible belt, we are struggling with gay marriage, gender pronouns, and teaching ID in school.

In islamic countries, we are struggling with whether or not the penalty for homosexuality should be death, and whether or not the penalty for apostasy shoild be death, and whether or not it is noble, holy, and worthy of reward to blow up innocent people at bus stops, and whether a global death sentence should be imposed on someone for writing a book.

So get that embarrassing bullshit out of here. Thanks.

That's a lot of hasty generalizations.

How many people have been executed for writing a book? I mean, I know they put out a hit on Salman Rushdie 31 years ago, but last time I checked, he was still alive and well. This has to be the most inefficient hit ever.

Oh, when they blow up "innocent' people at bus stops, they are blowing up people who invaded and occupied their land...usually in response to an airstrike. Funny how you leave that part out...

And one more thing:

The next time the debate over gay marriage in the bible belt arises, i fully expect you to hop in and excuse all of those opposed by pointing at laws against homosexuality in muslim countries.

"You cant criticize them! Because muslims do this!!!!:________"

You know, for consistency.

Um. No. What they do in their own countries is their own business. I'm sorry you don't get this. I find it hilarious that the kind of bible thumping morons who get all upset they have to bake cakes now are mewling about how gays are treated there because the Zionists and Oil Companies told them they had to be upset about that.

 

[JoeB131]

Our godless constitution and laws are clearly secular. Notice that the loons trying to put ID into schools lose. And it is now every time.

Okay.. let's look at that. Yes, they can't teach ID because it is clearly a religious doctrine. "Well, the universe was created by someone, we can't say who, but his name rhymes with 'Todd'."

What the crazies HAVE managed to do is use the power of the purse to get Evolution out of the classroom. Because they write science books to pander to Texas (the largest market in the country), evolution isn't mentioned in most biology textbooks. So kids don't hear about it in school and then they go to Church and hear God created man in his own image, end of discussion.

So go ahead and compare that to Islamic societies where homosexuality itself is illegal and where teaching evolution is illegal, with both punishable by violence up to and including death. I like it when other people do the work of making my points for me.

When was the last time they executed someone for teaching evolution in an Islamic Country?

On the topic of gays, um, yeah, if they catch a grown ass man fucking a teenage boy, they will execute the shit out of him. I just can't get worked up about that.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

I do wonder if Mr Nawaz task might be hampered by the sources of his funding ?

 

[Mac1958]

Notice the Regressives trying desperately to derail the thread.

Predictable, but it won't work.

What is regressive about John Rawls?

I don't know who that is.

Trying to derail the thread again?
.

 

[Mac1958]

You still equate mailing bombs and shooting up mosques with those who make idiotic comments while seeking office.

Huh?

One of the stranger straw man arguments so far.
.

 

[Mac1958]

Holy crap, does he ever nail it here:
.

 

[Tehon]

Notice the Regressives trying desperately to derail the thread.

Predictable, but it won't work.

What is regressive about John Rawls?

I don't know who that is.

Trying to derail the thread again?
.

Exactly my point.

You have no basis of understanding, no way of critiquing those views you hold up as beyond reproach.

You just regurgitate what someone else said that feeds your own bias.

 

[JoeB131]

Holy crap, does he ever nail it here:
.

Give Mr. Sellout his little rub on the head.

yes, it's their ideology that's the problem, not that we stole their land and bombed their homes.

 

[Mac1958]

Notice the Regressives trying desperately to derail the thread.

Predictable, but it won't work.

What is regressive about John Rawls?

I don't know who that is.

Trying to derail the thread again?
.

Exactly my point.

You have no basis of understanding, no way of critiquing those views you hold up as beyond reproach.

You just regurgitate what someone else said that feeds your own bias.

Dang, you really got me there!

Ouch!
.

 

[Olde Europe]

Um. No. What they do in their own countries is their own business. I'm sorry you don't get this. I find it hilarious that the kind of bible thumping morons who get all upset they have to bake cakes now are mewling about how gays are treated there because the Zionists and Oil Companies told them they had to be upset about that.

Yep.

You will also notice how their supremacist narrative is all atwitter about how "we" have democratic self-governance, "We the People", and all that highfalutin stuff. Those people don't have that, just look how "backward" they are, how they are letting themselves be governed by despicable autocrats (no matter we installed them, or propped them up, funded and / or armed them - the Shah, Mubarak / Al Sisi, the House of Saud...). Just... when they actually get a vote, and vote their preferences in a way of which we don't approve (Hamas, Hezbollah, Ahmadinejad...), all of a sudden all hell breaks loose.

Of course, you could argue, with lots of evidence behind it, that supremacism is a constituent part of the old (and undying) imperialist mindset, and figures like Mr. Nawaz are a god-send, for they help decry Those people for the ills and agony we, the West, by and large inflicted upon them. Of course, that works all the better in case a notoriously short attention span allows for history to be repeated over and over and over again. Problem is, Those people do pay attention, and they do have long memories, and, quite understandably, they rally around the one ideological stance that would provide a clear counter-narrative to the imperialist mindset and the self-serving meddling into their affairs. And that's why Mr. Nawaz and the Macs of this world - treating Those people like children who need to be lectured to, disciplined, or worse - are such a deleterious force: They and their meddling and lecturing make Muslims advocating for "Western" reforms in the Muslim world look like Quislings.

 

[Olde Europe]

Holy crap, does he ever nail it here:
.

Give Mr. Sellout his little rub on the head.

yes, it's their ideology that's the problem, not that we stole their land and bombed their homes.

The funniest thing about that is, of course, that Mac will never see how that describes his own good self to a T.

 

[SweetSue92]

Holy crap, does he ever nail it here:
.

I might agree with him on Radical Islam but this quote is beyond stupid. Ideological dogmas frame mindsets almost by definition. Putting such a numbskull quote by a stupid picture is really laughable.