Abraham smashing the idols

[HaShev]

An old woman came to Abraham's shop to buy an idol because some thieves stole her other one and she needed a replacement to protect her house.
Abraham said these words of wisdom in reply:
"Is it not foolish to think that an idol that could not save itself, will save you?"
Take these words of Abraham and place them on the idol Jesus.
Is it not foolish to think Jesus the man who couldn’t save himself, nor his disciples, or his early followers who died cursed deaths by the hands of the Romans, could save his present followers?
Thus today Christians complain of persecutions in certain non Christian regions of the world, haven’t even thought about why Jesus, who made promises of protection, could not deliver on these promises. Didn’t Abraham get through to them?
Read Isaiah 44, what does it say about the carpenter fashioning that idol out of wood that it places on the walls and bows down to asking it to deliver them. What about other chapters of Isaiah speaking of making the idol out of metals and wearingvit around your neck, what's that about? Rub it's feet and make a wish like some Buddah Belly? Really?
This is 2015 and you still use idols?

 

[Penelope]

An old woman came to Abraham's shop to buy an idol because some thieves stole her other one and she needed a replacement to protect her house.
Abraham said these words of wisdom in reply:
"Is it not foolish to think that an idol that could not save itself, will save you?"
Take these words of Abraham and place them on the idol Jesus.
Is it not foolish to think Jesus the man who couldn’t save himself, nor his disciples, or his early followers who died cursed deaths by the hands of the Romans, could save his present followers?
Thus today Christians complain of persecutions in certain non Christian regions of the world, haven’t even thought about why Jesus, who made promises of protection, could not deliver on these promises. Didn’t Abraham get through to them?
Read Isaiah 44, what does it say about the carpenter fashioning that idol out of wood that it places on the walls and bows down to asking it to deliver them. What about other chapters of Isaiah speaking of making the idol out of metals and wearingvit around your neck, what's that about? Rub it's feet and make a wish like some Buddah Belly? Really?
This is 2015 and you still use idols?

And jews idol is wailing at the wailing wall.

 

[HaShev]

No the placing prayers in it is.
They don't pray to the wall and they don't ask the wall to deliver them.
Do you even understand why the focus is on YeruShalem?

 

[hobelim]

Abraham said these words of wisdom in reply:
"Is it not foolish to think that an idol that could not save itself, will save you?"
Take these words of Abraham and place them on the idol Jesus.
Is it not foolish to think Jesus the man who couldn’t save himself, nor his disciples, or his early followers who died cursed deaths by the hands of the Romans, could save his present followers?

First you say that Jesus didn't exist now you say he couldn't save himself or his followers and died a shameful death by the hands of the Romans.

Make up your mind.

Until then you should probably consider that salvation has nothing whatever to do with what type of death one experiences. In fact, according to your own scriptures, sometimes submitting to death is the only righteous thing to do that insures salvation and a place in the world to come as in the death of Eleazer in 2 maccabees, who deliberately chose a painful death over a few more years of a shameful life of cowardice and pretense.

Read Isaiah 44, what does it say about the carpenter fashioning that idol out of wood that it places on the walls and bows down to asking it to deliver them. What about other chapters of Isaiah speaking of making the idol out of metals and wearingvit around your neck, what's that about? Rub it's feet and make a wish like some Buddah Belly? Really?
This is 2015 and you still use idols?

... astonishing, isn't it?

 

[RandomVariable]

An old woman came to Abraham's shop to buy an idol because some thieves stole her other one and she needed a replacement to protect her house.
Abraham said these words of wisdom in reply:
"Is it not foolish to think that an idol that could not save itself, will save you?"
Take these words of Abraham and place them on the idol Jesus.
Is it not foolish to think Jesus the man who couldn’t save himself, nor his disciples, or his early followers who died cursed deaths by the hands of the Romans, could save his present followers?
Thus today Christians complain of persecutions in certain non Christian regions of the world, haven’t even thought about why Jesus, who made promises of protection, could not deliver on these promises. Didn’t Abraham get through to them?
Read Isaiah 44, what does it say about the carpenter fashioning that idol out of wood that it places on the walls and bows down to asking it to deliver them. What about other chapters of Isaiah speaking of making the idol out of metals and wearingvit around your neck, what's that about? Rub it's feet and make a wish like some Buddah Belly? Really?
This is 2015 and you still use idols?

And jews idol is wailing at the wailing wall.

What religion did you say you were again?

 

[HaShev]

Hobe,
correct I say he didn't exist but like people always do they take out the full context-
Did I not further say he didn't exist as a "Singular" historical figure? Did I not say he's converged of many plagiarized accts? Did people refuse to answer the simple question to which historical figure is their christ?
Therefore I have to use the generic image Jesus when speaking.
Did they (the many christ figures) not all fail causing their followers to be slain?
All the many christ figures used for his image Especially Theudas where you get the martyred apostles from had failed and lead their apostles to death.
Given these facts why did you leave out the full context of what I say? The same reason why Christianity is built on taking everything out of context, it's to sell a lie.... lies need dancing around the truth to fit the story they want to project and not what's fully said.

 

[irosie91]

Hobe,
correct I say he didn't exist but like people always do they take out the full context-
Did I not further say he didn't exist as a "Singular" historical figure? Did I not say he's converged of many plagiarized accts? Did people refuse to answer the simple question to which historical figure is their christ?
Therefore I have to use the generic image Jesus when speaking.
Did they (the many christ figures) not all fail causing their followers to be slain?
All the many christ figures used for his image Especially Theudas where you get the martyred apostles from had failed and lead their apostles to death.
Given these facts why did you leave out the full context of what I say? The same reason why Christianity is built on taking everything out of context, it's to sell a lie.... lies need dancing around the truth to fit the story they want to project and not what's fully said.

you do not explain your position in a palatable manner. I do agree that the
Jesus presented in the NT---is a composite
character, but it's a lot more easy to digest
if your express that idea like "words and ideas attributed to Jesus in the NT---are actually drawn from several sources outside
of a single historic person"
---rather than "the guy
never existed"

 

[hobelim]

Hobe,
correct I say he didn't exist but like people always do they take out the full context-
Did I not further say he didn't exist as a "Singular" historical figure? Did I not say he's converged of many plagiarized accts? Did people refuse to answer the simple question to which historical figure is their christ?
Therefore I have to use the generic image Jesus when speaking.

Damn Hashev, you go to such great lengths to deny the existence of Jesus to discredit Christianity and then accuse that same Jesus of being a failed Messiah who led his followers to death to discredit Christianity. Why does your entire facade collapse whenever anyone counters with a rational point? Don't you notice that every single time you degenerate into a whining douchbag to avoid an intelligent response?

Pssst! Everyone else does.

Did they (the many christ figures) not all fail causing their followers to be slain?

NO. The Jesus of the gospels lead his followers to salvation and eternal life by teaching them the right way to interpret and conform to the divine commands that leads to the fulfillment of the promise of life for compliance. Apparently people back then were so backwards, narrow minded, unenlightened and confused that they thought the concern of God and the subjects of the divine commands were about what you eat and what you wear and what kind of sex a person has with whom and imposed and enforced a strict literal observance of the law that was in many cases under penalty of death. Crazy isn't it? A modern equivalent would be how life is under the rule of ISIS. Would you have the faith and courage to deliberately choose a shameful death over a shameful life?

If ever you realize that one cannot conform to a literal observance of kosher law without violating the deeper implications you will see that the Jesus of the gospels did the exact same thing as Eleazer who died a holy death and set a righteous example for his followers by refusing to eat the flesh of swine which, as revealed by Jesus who proclaimed to speak for God, is a literal interpretation and application of the law perpetuated by vile and loathsome creatures whose teaching defiles and contaminates the mind.

 

[irosie91]

Hobe----you know very little about the life and times of Jesus

 

[hobelim]

Hobe----you know very little about the life and times of Jesus

Don't be silly. Nothing has changed. Some people to this day actually believe that God gives a crap about what you make for dinner as if one can become holy by eating or abstaining from certain food. People by the billions are currently being persecuted and slaughtered for non compliance to this exact same moronic teaching.

Some people actually want to build a temple dedicated to God only to butcher farm animals in it.

fucking nutz in the first century is still fucking nutz today.

 

[irosie91]

Hobe----you know very little about the life and times of Jesus

Don't be silly. Nothing has changed. Some people to this day actually believe that God gives a crap about what you make for dinner as if one can become holy by eating or abstaining from certain food. People by the billions are currently being persecuted and slaughtered for non compliance to this exact same moronic teaching.

Some people actually want to build a temple dedicated to God only to butcher farm animals in it.

fucking nutz in the first century is still fucking nutz today.

I have no idea what you are saying or when people were persecuted for eating the wrong food or who wants to build a "temple" for the sole purpose of killing farm animals -----or when was the "first century" and what you imagine took place in that century. I believe it is illegal to hunt and eat whales in
many countries. Lots of people prefer to be vegetarians

 

[hobelim]

I have no idea what you are saying or when people were persecuted for eating the wrong food or who wants to build a "temple" for the sole purpose of killing farm animals -----or when was the "first century" and what you imagine took place in that century. I believe it is illegal to hunt and eat whales in
many countries. Lots of people prefer to be vegetarians

Thanks for providing a perfect example of what the life and times of Jesus were like.

 

[irosie91]

I have no idea what you are saying or when people were persecuted for eating the wrong food or who wants to build a "temple" for the sole purpose of killing farm animals -----or when was the "first century" and what you imagine took place in that century. I believe it is illegal to hunt and eat whales in
many countries. Lots of people prefer to be vegetarians

Thanks for providing a perfect example of what the life and times of Jesus were like.

Where did I do that? I do not think whale hunting was an issue for the Judeans at the time of Jesus

 

[hobelim]

I have no idea what you are saying or when people were persecuted for eating the wrong food or who wants to build a "temple" for the sole purpose of killing farm animals -----or when was the "first century" and what you imagine took place in that century. I believe it is illegal to hunt and eat whales in
many countries. Lots of people prefer to be vegetarians

Thanks for providing a perfect example of what the life and times of Jesus were like.

Where did I do that? I do not think whale hunting was an issue for the Judeans at the time of Jesus

Some people prefer cupcakes exclusively. I myself care less for them.

 

[Moonglow]

So it's okay to destroy other people's religious idols or temples?

 

[hobelim]

So it's okay to destroy other people's religious idols or temples?

According to the story, intelligent, rational reasoning, wisdom, is what destroyed their idols. Once people have no reason to go to the temples, etc., it would be better to turn them into condos, museums, or night clubs.

 

[HaShev]

Hobe,
you lied again to cover up your error and showed your anger and frustration.
1) Jesus gets you to hate proving my points
2)If you let go of the human ego that stress and hate is released because it's all based on hurt pride and influenced by affiliation pride.
3) If I frustrate you and make you angry then just Iggy me. You don't deserve all my hints and clues anyway...come back as a humble child not a raving kid in a sand box and you can have your cookies.

 

[hobelim]

Hobe,
you lied again to cover up your error and showed your anger and frustration.
1) Jesus gets you to hate proving my points
2)If you let go of the human ego that stress and hate is released because it's all based on hurt pride and influenced by affiliation pride.
3) If I frustrate you and make you angry then just Iggy me. You don't deserve all my hints and clues anyway...come back as a humble child not a raving kid in a sand box and you can have your cookies.

Anger and frustration? I don't think so. This is what I wrote, if you are going to accuse me of a lie then you should be able to expose it.

Take your time....and try not to project your own ego stress, hurt pride, anger and frustration on me....again. It makes you look like an ass.

"NO. The Jesus of the gospels lead his followers to salvation and eternal life by teaching them the right way to interpret and conform to the divine commands that leads to the fulfillment of the promise of life for compliance. Apparently people back then were so backwards, narrow minded, unenlightened and confused that they thought the concern of God and the subjects of the divine commands were about what you eat and what you wear and what kind of sex a person has with whom and imposed and enforced a strict literal observance of the law that was in many cases under penalty of death. Crazy isn't it? A modern equivalent would be how life is under the rule of ISIS. Would you have the faith and courage to deliberately choose a shameful death over a shameful life?

If ever you realize that one cannot conform to a literal observance of kosher law without violating the deeper implications you will see that the Jesus of the gospels did the exact same thing as Eleazer who died a holy death and set a righteous example for his followers by refusing to eat the flesh of swine which, as revealed by Jesus who proclaimed to speak for God, is a literal interpretation and application of the law perpetuated by vile and loathsome creatures whose teaching defiles and contaminates the mind."



Whether Jesus was accurately depicted, embellished and sugar coated for children, or a composite figure drawn from many sources, and however wrong and diverted by superstitious archaic lore the churches might be, this is the teaching conveyed by the authors of the gospels, whoever they were, that was written down and attributed to Jesus by Jews long before pagan Rome ever usurped authority over them.

 

[Votto]

An old woman came to Abraham's shop to buy an idol because some thieves stole her other one and she needed a replacement to protect her house.
Abraham said these words of wisdom in reply:
"Is it not foolish to think that an idol that could not save itself, will save you?"
Take these words of Abraham and place them on the idol Jesus.
Is it not foolish to think Jesus the man who couldn’t save himself, nor his disciples, or his early followers who died cursed deaths by the hands of the Romans, could save his present followers?
Thus today Christians complain of persecutions in certain non Christian regions of the world, haven’t even thought about why Jesus, who made promises of protection, could not deliver on these promises. Didn’t Abraham get through to them?
Read Isaiah 44, what does it say about the carpenter fashioning that idol out of wood that it places on the walls and bows down to asking it to deliver them. What about other chapters of Isaiah speaking of making the idol out of metals and wearingvit around your neck, what's that about? Rub it's feet and make a wish like some Buddah Belly? Really?
This is 2015 and you still use idols?

I presume you had no inkling as to the fate of Isaiah whom you hold up as Godly, or you are just hoping no one else does. He was sawn in two by the Israeli king Manasseh. Are you suggesting that he was not a Godly man?

In fact you seem to not know any history whatsoever regarding the fates of prophets in the OT.

Jeremiah was stonned at Tahpanhes in Ancient Egypt. Ezekiel was martyred in the land of the Chaldeans. Micah was killed by Jehoram. Amos was tortured by Amaziah and later martyred. And finally, Zechariah was martyred by Jehoash near the alter of the temple.

Are you suggesting that all of these prophets were as ungodly as Jesus?

Speaking of Isaiah, I think he has a word for you.

Isaiah 59:3 For your hands are stained with blood, your fingers with guilt, your lips have spoken falsely, and your tongue spews corruption.

Jesus also has a word for you.

Luke 11:50 Therefore, this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world.

It seems Jesus fits perfectly into the same pattern. God gives his people a message that they don't like and they kill the messenger.

And yes, God lets it happen

 

[HaShev]

Votto you are speaking out of context.
Jesus is claimed to protect those who stroke his ego and is claimed to be a god. The prophets don't claim to be God nor does God claim to protect them directly in the sense of the context we are discussing.