And it starts.. The "Wimpification" of the U.S. Military

[OriginalShroom]

In the years that that Liberals and Democrats have been arguing that women need to be in allowing in all positions in the military, the one thing that has kept them from being in many of the roles is the simply biological fact that they are not as strong men. They don't have the endurance of men.

But now that is going to change if one Female Colonel has her way.

Army colonel: Physical strength not the end-all, be-all of combat service - Washington Times

An Army officer writing in a prestigious journal says the services should not overemphasize physical strength when deciding whether a woman qualifies for direct ground combat.

Col. Ellen Haring, on the staff of the U.S. Army War College, says commanders need to downplay obstacle courses and judge a service member’s ability to stay calm and think quickly.


The Pentagon has lifted its ban on women serving in the infantry, tanks and special operations, and the branches are examining all their physical standards in preparation for introducing women into these units in 2015.

Some military analysts fear the Pentagon will discard some standards to ensure that a significant number of women qualify.

“Perhaps it is time to take a hard look at what really makes a competent combat soldier and not rely on traditional notions of masculine brawn that celebrate strength over other qualities,” Col. Haring says in the current issue of Armed Forces Journal.

She cites World War II hero Audie Murphy and North Vietnamese insurgents as examples of small people who came up big on the battlefield.

“If the going-in assumption is that physical standards are the only thing that needs to be examined, then we are also assuming that we have everything else just right,” she wrote. “This is belied by our less-than-optimal performances in many instances during the past 12 years. Fixating on physical standards is a tactical-level approach that misses a strategic-level opportunity.”

Col. Haring, who had sued the Pentagon over its old exclusion policy, said that Murphy perhaps could not have passed the Marine Corps’ infantry officer qualification course.

To date, all six female Marine officers who have tried the course have flunked or withdrawn due to injury.

“We can’t be sure, but odds are that Murphy would have washed out here, as well,” Col. Haring said. “An obstacle course that relies on physical prowess tests none of the important qualities that Murphy possessed.”

In focusing only on physical strength in violent situations, she said: “We diminish the importance of what are probably more important traits in soldiers: the ability to remain calm, focused, creative and quick-thinking in times of extreme duress. These are the traits that we should be measuring as we assess soldiers for combat specialties. Physical strength is important, but it shouldn’t be the most important trait that we assess, and it certainly shouldn’t become a way to filter out the Audie Murphys of our population.”

Just for the record, Audie Murphy wasn't an officer when he joined the Army.. He was enlisted. To bring him up as an example is pure bullshit.

In fact Audie Murphy was initially turned down for being underweight and failing the physical tests. He had to change his diet and work out to join.. And this was AFTER the attack on Pearl Harbor.

Also, the physical portion of training is just one part. There is the tactical part, the thinking part, that has cause many to wash out as well.

This Colonel is pushing a political agenda. I noticed she failed to also demand that women start registering for the draft.

 

[Katzndogz]

Told you it was going to happen. It will happen in the military the same way it happened to police departments. Once the standards are lowered, they won't only be lowered for women, but men who could not make the grade will suddenly start passing.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Told you it was going to happen. It will happen in the military the same way it happened to police departments. Once the standards are lowered, they won't only be lowered for women, but men who could not make the grade will suddenly start passing.

I know plenty of really good female shooters and other types of athlete. Not one of them got that good by lowering the threshold. I am seeing more of these types though both male and female. Demand mediocrity and you get it.

 

[Wyatt earp]

In the years that that Liberals and Democrats have been arguing that women need to be in allowing in all positions in the military, the one thing that has kept them from being in many of the roles is the simply biological fact that they are not as strong men. They don't have the endurance of men.

But now that is going to change if one Female Colonel has her way.

Army colonel: Physical strength not the end-all, be-all of combat service - Washington Times

An Army officer writing in a prestigious journal says the services should not overemphasize physical strength when deciding whether a woman qualifies for direct ground combat.

Col. Ellen Haring, on the staff of the U.S. Army War College, says commanders need to downplay obstacle courses and judge a service member’s ability to stay calm and think quickly.


The Pentagon has lifted its ban on women serving in the infantry, tanks and special operations, and the branches are examining all their physical standards in preparation for introducing women into these units in 2015.

Some military analysts fear the Pentagon will discard some standards to ensure that a significant number of women qualify.

“Perhaps it is time to take a hard look at what really makes a competent combat soldier and not rely on traditional notions of masculine brawn that celebrate strength over other qualities,” Col. Haring says in the current issue of Armed Forces Journal.

She cites World War II hero Audie Murphy and North Vietnamese insurgents as examples of small people who came up big on the battlefield.

“If the going-in assumption is that physical standards are the only thing that needs to be examined, then we are also assuming that we have everything else just right,” she wrote. “This is belied by our less-than-optimal performances in many instances during the past 12 years. Fixating on physical standards is a tactical-level approach that misses a strategic-level opportunity.”

Col. Haring, who had sued the Pentagon over its old exclusion policy, said that Murphy perhaps could not have passed the Marine Corps’ infantry officer qualification course.

To date, all six female Marine officers who have tried the course have flunked or withdrawn due to injury.

“We can’t be sure, but odds are that Murphy would have washed out here, as well,” Col. Haring said. “An obstacle course that relies on physical prowess tests none of the important qualities that Murphy possessed.”

In focusing only on physical strength in violent situations, she said: “We diminish the importance of what are probably more important traits in soldiers: the ability to remain calm, focused, creative and quick-thinking in times of extreme duress. These are the traits that we should be measuring as we assess soldiers for combat specialties. Physical strength is important, but it shouldn’t be the most important trait that we assess, and it certainly shouldn’t become a way to filter out the Audie Murphys of our population.”

Just for the record, Audie Murphy wasn't an officer when he joined the Army.. He was enlisted. To bring him up as an example is pure bullshit.

In fact Audie Murphy was initially turned down for being underweight and failing the physical tests. He had to change his diet and work out to join.. And this was AFTER the attack on Pearl Harbor.

Also, the physical portion of training is just one part. There is the tactical part, the thinking part, that has cause many to wash out as well.

This Colonel is pushing a political agenda. I noticed she failed to also demand that women start registering for the draft.

I am not worried about the Women, The ladys in the Israel miltary proved they can hold their own, What is a concern for me is the men, I dont think they could do their jobs be to worried about a fallen female solder.

 

[OriginalShroom]

The men won't have to worry about a fallen female soldier if they have to meet the same standards, which this Colonel wants to change.

 

[R.C. Christian]

Women in combat units. Utter insanity.

 

[rdean]

In the years that that Liberals and Democrats have been arguing that women need to be in allowing in all positions in the military, the one thing that has kept them from being in many of the roles is the simply biological fact that they are not as strong men. They don't have the endurance of men.

But now that is going to change if one Female Colonel has her way.

Army colonel: Physical strength not the end-all, be-all of combat service - Washington Times

An Army officer writing in a prestigious journal says the services should not overemphasize physical strength when deciding whether a woman qualifies for direct ground combat.

Col. Ellen Haring, on the staff of the U.S. Army War College, says commanders need to downplay obstacle courses and judge a service member’s ability to stay calm and think quickly.


The Pentagon has lifted its ban on women serving in the infantry, tanks and special operations, and the branches are examining all their physical standards in preparation for introducing women into these units in 2015.

Some military analysts fear the Pentagon will discard some standards to ensure that a significant number of women qualify.

“Perhaps it is time to take a hard look at what really makes a competent combat soldier and not rely on traditional notions of masculine brawn that celebrate strength over other qualities,” Col. Haring says in the current issue of Armed Forces Journal.

She cites World War II hero Audie Murphy and North Vietnamese insurgents as examples of small people who came up big on the battlefield.

“If the going-in assumption is that physical standards are the only thing that needs to be examined, then we are also assuming that we have everything else just right,” she wrote. “This is belied by our less-than-optimal performances in many instances during the past 12 years. Fixating on physical standards is a tactical-level approach that misses a strategic-level opportunity.”

Col. Haring, who had sued the Pentagon over its old exclusion policy, said that Murphy perhaps could not have passed the Marine Corps’ infantry officer qualification course.

To date, all six female Marine officers who have tried the course have flunked or withdrawn due to injury.

“We can’t be sure, but odds are that Murphy would have washed out here, as well,” Col. Haring said. “An obstacle course that relies on physical prowess tests none of the important qualities that Murphy possessed.”

In focusing only on physical strength in violent situations, she said: “We diminish the importance of what are probably more important traits in soldiers: the ability to remain calm, focused, creative and quick-thinking in times of extreme duress. These are the traits that we should be measuring as we assess soldiers for combat specialties. Physical strength is important, but it shouldn’t be the most important trait that we assess, and it certainly shouldn’t become a way to filter out the Audie Murphys of our population.”

Just for the record, Audie Murphy wasn't an officer when he joined the Army.. He was enlisted. To bring him up as an example is pure bullshit.

In fact Audie Murphy was initially turned down for being underweight and failing the physical tests. He had to change his diet and work out to join.. And this was AFTER the attack on Pearl Harbor.

Also, the physical portion of training is just one part. There is the tactical part, the thinking part, that has cause many to wash out as well.

This Colonel is pushing a political agenda. I noticed she failed to also demand that women start registering for the draft.

So Audie Murphy succeeded even with all those against him? Hmmm. Glad he didn't "give up" or "believe the asshats".

 

[Wyatt earp]

The men won't have to worry about a fallen female soldier if they have to meet the same standards, which this Colonel wants to change.

No true red white and blue raised American guy would leave a woman to die on the battle field alone to complete a mission. Sorry it dont work that way.

 

[Wyatt earp]

if it does then we finnaly crossed the line.

 

[asterism]

In the years that that Liberals and Democrats have been arguing that women need to be in allowing in all positions in the military, the one thing that has kept them from being in many of the roles is the simply biological fact that they are not as strong men. They don't have the endurance of men.

But now that is going to change if one Female Colonel has her way.

Army colonel: Physical strength not the end-all, be-all of combat service - Washington Times

An Army officer writing in a prestigious journal says the services should not overemphasize physical strength when deciding whether a woman qualifies for direct ground combat.

Col. Ellen Haring, on the staff of the U.S. Army War College, says commanders need to downplay obstacle courses and judge a service member’s ability to stay calm and think quickly.


The Pentagon has lifted its ban on women serving in the infantry, tanks and special operations, and the branches are examining all their physical standards in preparation for introducing women into these units in 2015.

Some military analysts fear the Pentagon will discard some standards to ensure that a significant number of women qualify.

“Perhaps it is time to take a hard look at what really makes a competent combat soldier and not rely on traditional notions of masculine brawn that celebrate strength over other qualities,” Col. Haring says in the current issue of Armed Forces Journal.

She cites World War II hero Audie Murphy and North Vietnamese insurgents as examples of small people who came up big on the battlefield.

“If the going-in assumption is that physical standards are the only thing that needs to be examined, then we are also assuming that we have everything else just right,” she wrote. “This is belied by our less-than-optimal performances in many instances during the past 12 years. Fixating on physical standards is a tactical-level approach that misses a strategic-level opportunity.”

Col. Haring, who had sued the Pentagon over its old exclusion policy, said that Murphy perhaps could not have passed the Marine Corps’ infantry officer qualification course.

To date, all six female Marine officers who have tried the course have flunked or withdrawn due to injury.

“We can’t be sure, but odds are that Murphy would have washed out here, as well,” Col. Haring said. “An obstacle course that relies on physical prowess tests none of the important qualities that Murphy possessed.”

In focusing only on physical strength in violent situations, she said: “We diminish the importance of what are probably more important traits in soldiers: the ability to remain calm, focused, creative and quick-thinking in times of extreme duress. These are the traits that we should be measuring as we assess soldiers for combat specialties. Physical strength is important, but it shouldn’t be the most important trait that we assess, and it certainly shouldn’t become a way to filter out the Audie Murphys of our population.”

Just for the record, Audie Murphy wasn't an officer when he joined the Army.. He was enlisted. To bring him up as an example is pure bullshit.

In fact Audie Murphy was initially turned down for being underweight and failing the physical tests. He had to change his diet and work out to join.. And this was AFTER the attack on Pearl Harbor.

Also, the physical portion of training is just one part. There is the tactical part, the thinking part, that has cause many to wash out as well.

This Colonel is pushing a political agenda. I noticed she failed to also demand that women start registering for the draft.

She's astoundingly ignorant for suggesting that there are no mental tests of fortitude and calm under duress in the course.


That's because she's never been in any role like that herself. Here's her resume. What it the world qualifies her to speak on combat?

 

[bucs90]

Funny how right wingers care so much about this now.

Because they've been "wimpifying" our police departments for years, and you guys have never cared. Yet, thousands of brave, competent women put on a badge, vest and gun every single night in every single city in America, and have done just fine.

Thats not the same, you say?

Well, as you read this, if you saw 2 armed thugs kicking at the front door of your neighbors home, who would you call?

A) The Marines
B) The Army
C) The Air Force
D) The Navy
E) The Police Department

So, if women are good enough to protect you HERE, why not THERE???

 

[bucs90]

Women in combat units. Utter insanity.

Remember Fort Hood, where that Islamic terrorist went on a killing rampage against our Army? Remember the last few months when right wingers have demanded those Army troops get "combat pay" for that incident? I agree. It was COMBAT.

Oh..........it was a FEMALE civilian cop who shot that motherfucker and ended his attack.

Repeat.

In a COMBAT zone....which is what it was of they deserve "combat pay".......it was a civilian female cop who shot the motherfucker. If any one of those Army troops had a weapon, they would've done it far before she did. Unfortunately, he attacked an unarmed group of soldiers like the coward he is.

But that female in a combat situation did just fine. Many females across the country in violent, bullets flying situations, have done just fine.

I've never been in the military, but I've been a cop, and female cops do just fine. If some argue that the male soldiers would react different, then yes, fair enough, that may very well be true, and a legit argument.

But make that the argument. NOT saying that a female cant pull a trigger on a threat to the United States, because Fort Hood is just one example showing they can.

 

[bodecea]

They said that the American public would never stand for women coming home in body bags or without arms and legs.



Well........................................

 

[bucs90]

They said that the American public would never stand for women coming home in body bags or without arms and legs.



Well........................................

I may owe my life to a female officer with APD, I was losing a fight, badly I might add, against 3 shitheads who had a stolen gun and crack in a car. She showed up as backup, scrapped with me, got 2 in cuffs, one got away. Hate to think what may have happened had she not been around.

There are countless stories of brave females handling business while carrying a gun on American streets. Whatever the reason they say females shouldnt be in combat, it is NOT because they aren't brave, wont fight, or cant shoot. They can do all that.

 

[francoHFW]

Hater dupes. Utter insanity.

 

[Plasmaball]

first it was the blacks, then women, then gays, and now back to women. i want to give a shit about the OP's opinion, but they have gone to the well so many times that seriously who gives a shit about what you have to say.

 

[OKTexas]

Funny how right wingers care so much about this now.

Because they've been "wimpifying" our police departments for years, and you guys have never cared. Yet, thousands of brave, competent women put on a badge, vest and gun every single night in every single city in America, and have done just fine.

Thats not the same, you say?

Well, as you read this, if you saw 2 armed thugs kicking at the front door of your neighbors home, who would you call?

A) The Marines
B) The Army
C) The Air Force
D) The Navy
E) The Police Department

So, if women are good enough to protect you HERE, why not THERE???

They don't have to carry 80 pounds of body armor plus ammo a weapon and other equipment in 120 degrees here. There might be 1 in 10,000 women who can handle a combat load on rough terrain. Is it really worth changing everything for those odds?

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Funny how right wingers care so much about this now.

Because they've been "wimpifying" our police departments for years, and you guys have never cared. Yet, thousands of brave, competent women put on a badge, vest and gun every single night in every single city in America, and have done just fine.

Thats not the same, you say?

Well, as you read this, if you saw 2 armed thugs kicking at the front door of your neighbors home, who would you call?

A) The Marines
B) The Army
C) The Air Force
D) The Navy
E) The Police Department

So, if women are good enough to protect you HERE, why not THERE???

Well pretty much if the door was being kicked down I would count on me first since I would be the front line of defense for my family. Now if I had my options and a time delay device I would pick Navy Seals, Marines, Rangers...AF and Police are last.

 

[bucs90]

Funny how right wingers care so much about this now.

Because they've been "wimpifying" our police departments for years, and you guys have never cared. Yet, thousands of brave, competent women put on a badge, vest and gun every single night in every single city in America, and have done just fine.

Thats not the same, you say?

Well, as you read this, if you saw 2 armed thugs kicking at the front door of your neighbors home, who would you call?

A) The Marines
B) The Army
C) The Air Force
D) The Navy
E) The Police Department

So, if women are good enough to protect you HERE, why not THERE???

They don't have to carry 80 pounds of body armor plus ammo a weapon and other equipment in 120 degrees here. There might be 1 in 10,000 women who can handle a combat load on rough terrain. Is it really worth changing everything for those odds?

A police vest and duty belt go about 30 pounds, and in polyester (aka, hot). And Atlanta gets freakin' hot as fuck. I know...its not Iraq. Never said it was. But female firemen do fine with heavy loads, in high heat, in burning terrain. I personally saw female cops hold their own right next to the men.

Are they more rare than a man would be? Sure. I 100% support keeping standards the same for all. And if the woman can make it, have at it. Now, if we are talking changing standards, no, Im not for that. The police and fire depts dont change standards for women. Not for PT, shooting, fighting, driving, anything. Standards are the same. May be why there are far more male cops than females. And even more of a gap amongst swat teams. But, there are some female swat members here and there.

Anyhow, just my two cents. I wasn't military, so I cant comment with a lot of knowledge of it. But I've seen women fight and carry a gun in ATL, and they did just fine. Even when it was 110 degrees outside.

 

[bucs90]

Funny how right wingers care so much about this now.

Because they've been "wimpifying" our police departments for years, and you guys have never cared. Yet, thousands of brave, competent women put on a badge, vest and gun every single night in every single city in America, and have done just fine.

Thats not the same, you say?

Well, as you read this, if you saw 2 armed thugs kicking at the front door of your neighbors home, who would you call?

A) The Marines
B) The Army
C) The Air Force
D) The Navy
E) The Police Department

So, if women are good enough to protect you HERE, why not THERE???

Well pretty much if the door was being kicked down I would count on me first since I would be the front line of defense for my family. Now if I had my options and a time delay device I would pick Navy Seals, Marines, Rangers...AF and Police are last.

MY GOD I predicted that just right. I just KNEW a RW'er would respond with "me first". Yeah, thats it. Go George Zimmerman on us, run across the street, and you confront them. Thats why I said your NEIGHBOR, not you.

So let me rephrase.

You are at work. And your kids are home alone with your wife. And I know........all RW'ers have wives and kids who are combat trained, armed and ready.

But lets assume for a moment they aren't. And they call you saying someone is kicking the door. Who do you tell them to call? And no, you dont get a "time delay" device. As hard as it is to admit, the police literally are here to protect you and your family, and you cant hit pause and call the Army or Navy to come protect you.

And even with that, you'd pick wrong. In that situation, with the time delay device, the #1 unit in the world you could call for a hostage rescue situation would be the FBI National SWAT team, officially called HRT- Hostage Rescue Team. They are the best. They train the SEALS, Rangers, LAPD SWAT, etc, etc, on CQB Hostage Situation training. They are all ex-special forces, guys who spent 10-20 years on major city SWAT teams, etc, etc.


But in that rapidly developing situation, no, you wouldnt get them either. You get the local police. Maybe even a female one.