Atomwaffen and the case for pre-emptive gun control

[Mikeoxenormous]

I think we as a country really need to look long and hard at the 2nd amendment. If we do not start there, we are just running in circles. Let's just be honest, folks...the 2nd Amendment is antiquated. It does not apply to today's society. We need to look at gun/weapons as a privilege and not a right. That's right, l said it. We need to look at guns the same way we look at cars and driving. It's a privilege to drive a car, why should it be any different when it come to guns?

We can talk about mental health til the cows come home, it still doesn't address the whole idea that owning a gun is right. It isn't, not in today's society. Let's keep in mind, when the second amendment was written we were a new country without a standing army. That just isn't the case today. We need to really look into our hearts and really question if we want to consider owning a gun as right...or a privilege. Until we address that, we are just running in circles.

What you think are far as right or privilege is irrelevant, the hard fact is in this country owning a gun is a right. Work with your lawmaker to overturn the 2nd Amendment. You have a long battle ahead of you.

IS IT a right for mentally challenged to have and carry guns..?.....maybe ok in your neighborhood

Define mentally challenged.

Sorry pap Google it I'm not a doctor and don't want to steer you wrong with my definition For starters though see sassy bripat and jc for examples

That is my point, "mentally challenged" is a broad term, you can broadly apply the term too many. Also, those with mental illness tend to be less violent than the general population.

Also, those with mental illness tend to be less violent than the general population.

you sure about that?

 

[2aguy]

Neo-Nazi 'Atomwaffen' group celebrates member for allegedly murdering gay student

Its a long read but I wondered what peoples thoughts were in light of the Florida slaughter.

There has been much comment on the behaviour of Cruz ,his threats, his social media output and the fact that nothing was done by the authorities. In retrospect Cruz made no secret of his inclinations and the authorities have been castigated for not locking him up or even taking his guns off him.

Of course that may be easier said than done, we are all innocent until proven guilty after all. But there must be a solution of some sort when these characters come across the radar of the police.

Which brings me to the subject of "Atomwaffen".

Atomwaffen are a nazi organisation with a history of violence and also a history of threats to America.


A 29-year-old resident of Las Vegas, Hubsky holds both a concealed weapons permit and a security guard license, and is a big fan of high-powered military-style firearms. In one post he discussed a favorite weapon: a Czech-made rifle called a CZ Scorpion that, Hubsky said, he’d converted to fully automatic and equipped with a flash suppressor.

In another message, Hubsky wrote that he was planning on getting an “FFL” — federal firearms license — so he could “manufacture” guns.

“I can literally become our armory in the event we need it,” Hubsky bragged.

And there is more.

Hubsky also discussed blowing up natural gas lines.

“You put a home-made thermite grenade on those,” he wrote. While other types of infrastructure — like water lines – figured in Hubsky’s discussions, hitting the power grid was, in his view, the most devastating and effective attack possible. Destroying electricity infrastructure, Hubsky wrote, “would by default take out the internet because it relies on power to operate.”

And even more.

“So in any war, you need to cut off your enemy’s ability to shoot, move and communicate,” Hubsky wrote in a September 2017 message posted in a discussion on white nationalism that occurred in a non-Atomwaffen chat room. “You would want to target things like: Substations, water filtration plants, etc.” ProPublica has obtained Hubsky’s statements from that online conversation.

There may only be 100 of these loons, organised into cells across the country. They are angry,armed and have an ideology that threatens your way of life.

So my question is this.

If action should have been taken against Cruz should action be taken against Atomwaffen and similar groups ?
Dont get partisan about this, its a principle we are talking about, and one that could be applied to groups of any political persuasion.

I am yet to be persuaded on the issue.

On the one hand the world would be a better place without these people. On the other hand "innocent till proven guilty" protects us from the excesses of the State.

What do you think ?

Atomwaffen

They made terrorist threats so you can bet they have already been infiltrated by the FBI...there use to be joke about the democrat KKK, that there were more FBI infiltrators in the democrat KKK than there were actual members.....

 

[2aguy]

I think we as a country really need to look long and hard at the 2nd amendment. If we do not start there, we are just running in circles. Let's just be honest, folks...the 2nd Amendment is antiquated. It does not apply to today's society. We need to look at gun/weapons as a privilege and not a right. That's right, l said it. We need to look at guns the same way we look at cars and driving. It's a privilege to drive a car, why should it be any different when it come to guns?

We can talk about mental health til the cows come home, it still doesn't address the whole idea that owning a gun is right. It isn't, not in today's society. Let's keep in mind, when the second amendment was written we were a new country without a standing army. That just isn't the case today. We need to really look into our hearts and really question if we want to consider owning a gun as right...or a privilege. Until we address that, we are just running in circles.

Since history, the truth, facts and reality show you have no idea what you are talking about....it would be nice if you engaged your brain before you post....

Since the addition of the 2nd Amendment to our Constitution....socialist governments around the world have murdered about 200 million unarmed men, women and children.....so you don't understand history and why we actually have the 2nd Amendment....

Then, since you don't understand the truth....as more law abiding people own and carry guns, our gun crime rates went down...while in Britain, Australia and now many countries in Europe, where they banned and confiscated guns, their gun crime rates are going up....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

And driving is not a Right...........our Right to own and carry guns for self defense predates the existence of this country....

Yes....people like you once thought that voting wasn't a Right either...that is why you passed Poll Taxes and Literacy tests to keep black Americans from voting.....we told you to stop that too....

 

[2aguy]

Neo-Nazi 'Atomwaffen' group celebrates member for allegedly murdering gay student

Its a long read but I wondered what peoples thoughts were in light of the Florida slaughter.

There has been much comment on the behaviour of Cruz ,his threats, his social media output and the fact that nothing was done by the authorities. In retrospect Cruz made no secret of his inclinations and the authorities have been castigated for not locking him up or even taking his guns off him.

Of course that may be easier said than done, we are all innocent until proven guilty after all. But there must be a solution of some sort when these characters come across the radar of the police.

Which brings me to the subject of "Atomwaffen".

Atomwaffen are a nazi organisation with a history of violence and also a history of threats to America.


A 29-year-old resident of Las Vegas, Hubsky holds both a concealed weapons permit and a security guard license, and is a big fan of high-powered military-style firearms. In one post he discussed a favorite weapon: a Czech-made rifle called a CZ Scorpion that, Hubsky said, he’d converted to fully automatic and equipped with a flash suppressor.

In another message, Hubsky wrote that he was planning on getting an “FFL” — federal firearms license — so he could “manufacture” guns.

“I can literally become our armory in the event we need it,” Hubsky bragged.

And there is more.

Hubsky also discussed blowing up natural gas lines.

“You put a home-made thermite grenade on those,” he wrote. While other types of infrastructure — like water lines – figured in Hubsky’s discussions, hitting the power grid was, in his view, the most devastating and effective attack possible. Destroying electricity infrastructure, Hubsky wrote, “would by default take out the internet because it relies on power to operate.”

And even more.

“So in any war, you need to cut off your enemy’s ability to shoot, move and communicate,” Hubsky wrote in a September 2017 message posted in a discussion on white nationalism that occurred in a non-Atomwaffen chat room. “You would want to target things like: Substations, water filtration plants, etc.” ProPublica has obtained Hubsky’s statements from that online conversation.

There may only be 100 of these loons, organised into cells across the country. They are angry,armed and have an ideology that threatens your way of life.

So my question is this.

If action should have been taken against Cruz should action be taken against Atomwaffen and similar groups ?
Dont get partisan about this, its a principle we are talking about, and one that could be applied to groups of any political persuasion.

I am yet to be persuaded on the issue.

On the one hand the world would be a better place without these people. On the other hand "innocent till proven guilty" protects us from the excesses of the State.

What do you think ?

Atomwaffen

How do you know that the authorities haven't spoken or had contact with Hubsky? I think he is a nut however you can't lock people up for their thoughts can you? They seem to be aware of this group. There are several domestic terror groups that are out there. Last year we had groups organizing riots after the Presidential election and the government didn't seem at all interested in their violence, yet we now want to go after groups for thoughts because we find them offensive?

I'm not comfortable with the idea of the thought police, it could lead us down a dark road of abuse of power.

I am probably not too far away from your view. Atomwaffen do have a body count though.
Having said that how do you stop the next Cruz ?

First.....law enforcement agencies at the local, state and federal level just have to do their jobs.....had they simply done their jobs in Florida, the shooter would have been arrested for his various violent actions at school and at home, and he would have been on the no buy list for background checks.

Then, you end obama policies that told schools not to have violent students arrested....which allowed this killer to have a clean record when he went to buy his guns.

Next....you inform the public of the warning signs.....these killers have things in common 1) no father in the home 2) cruelty to animals and people 3) fixation on mass public shooters 4) specific threats made to commit acts of murder against specific people.....

Then, you encourage parents and relatives to report these people....

Then, see the first one on the list.


After the preemptive measures.....you get rid of democrat created gun free school zones and allow armed guards and/or armed staff...this will keep these shooter away....we know this from actual mass shooters.....they do not target places with armed people in them......

 

[2aguy]

You know Nazi party is the Democrat Socialist Workers Party? Are you finally coming clean that you want to see people like the gays killed for the ends justify the means?

Please don't try to interpret or explain history, you're terrible at it.

Nazi's called themselves National Socialist... but since they were in fact Fascists, they could force Germans to call them what ever they wanted.

Got it?

Good.

Moron....fascists are socialists.....

 

[eddiew37]

I think we as a country really need to look long and hard at the 2nd amendment. If we do not start there, we are just running in circles. Let's just be honest, folks...the 2nd Amendment is antiquated. It does not apply to today's society. We need to look at gun/weapons as a privilege and not a right. That's right, l said it. We need to look at guns the same way we look at cars and driving. It's a privilege to drive a car, why should it be any different when it come to guns?

We can talk about mental health til the cows come home, it still doesn't address the whole idea that owning a gun is right. It isn't, not in today's society. Let's keep in mind, when the second amendment was written we were a new country without a standing army. That just isn't the case today. We need to really look into our hearts and really question if we want to consider owning a gun as right...or a privilege. Until we address that, we are just running in circles.

What you think are far as right or privilege is irrelevant, the hard fact is in this country owning a gun is a right. Work with your lawmaker to overturn the 2nd Amendment. You have a long battle ahead of you.

IS IT a right for mentally challenged to have and carry guns..?.....maybe ok in your neighborhood

Define mentally challenged.

Sorry pap Google it I'm not a doctor and don't want to steer you wrong with my definition For starters though see sassy bripat and jc for examples

That is my point, "mentally challenged" is a broad term, you can broadly apply the term too many. Also, those with mental illness tend to be less violent than the general population.

But you leave out LESS predictable The school shooter the Las Vegas crazy didn't have all their marbles

 

[Papageorgio]

What you think are far as right or privilege is irrelevant, the hard fact is in this country owning a gun is a right. Work with your lawmaker to overturn the 2nd Amendment. You have a long battle ahead of you.

IS IT a right for mentally challenged to have and carry guns..?.....maybe ok in your neighborhood

Define mentally challenged.

Sorry pap Google it I'm not a doctor and don't want to steer you wrong with my definition For starters though see sassy bripat and jc for examples

That is my point, "mentally challenged" is a broad term, you can broadly apply the term too many. Also, those with mental illness tend to be less violent than the general population.

But you leave out LESS predictable The school shooter the Las Vegas crazy didn't have all their marbles

You are like the majority of us, however we are wrong in our concepts.

Checking Facts and Falsehoods About Gun Violence and Mental Illness After Parkland Shooting

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Define mentally challenged.

I would have to say that not understanding what “…the right of the people…shall not be infringed.” means is a pretty good indication.