Atomwaffen and the case for pre-emptive gun control

[hunarcy]

I think we as a country really need to look long and hard at the 2nd amendment. If we do not start there, we are just running in circles. Let's just be honest, folks...the 2nd Amendment is antiquated. It does not apply to today's society. We need to look at gun/weapons as a privilege and not a right. That's right, l said it. We need to look at guns the same way we look at cars and driving. It's a privilege to drive a car, why should it be any different when it come to guns?

We can talk about mental health til the cows come home, it still doesn't address the whole idea that owning a gun is right. It isn't, not in today's society. Let's keep in mind, when the second amendment was written we were a new country without a standing army. That just isn't the case today. We need to really look into our hearts and really question if we want to consider owning a gun as right...or a privilege. Until we address that, we are just running in circles.

There is no need to change the 2nd Amendment. It applies as well today as it did in 1783. Owning a gun IS a right and is not a privilege to be granted as a favor by the all powerful government.

 

[Doc1]

I think we as a country really need to look long and hard at the 2nd amendment. If we do not start there, we are just running in circles. Let's just be honest, folks...the 2nd Amendment is antiquated. It does not apply to today's society. We need to look at gun/weapons as a privilege and not a right. That's right, l said it. We need to look at guns the same way we look at cars and driving. It's a privilege to drive a car, why should it be any different when it come to guns?

We can talk about mental health til the cows come home, it still doesn't address the whole idea that owning a gun is right. It isn't, not in today's society. Let's keep in mind, when the second amendment was written we were a new country without a standing army. That just isn't the case today. We need to really look into our hearts and really question if we want to consider owning a gun as right...or a privilege. Until we address that, we are just running in circles.

Nobody cares what you said, or what you think. IF you want to remove the Amendment do it the prescribed away. Either that or just be quiet.

 

[The Original Tree]

10,000 Gun Control Laws, and Chicago is Still The Most Dangerous Shit Hole on The Planet!

Thanks Obama!

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Neo-Nazi 'Atomwaffen' group celebrates member for allegedly murdering gay student

Its a long read but I wondered what peoples thoughts were in light of the Florida slaughter.

There has been much comment on the behaviour of Cruz ,his threats, his social media output and the fact that nothing was done by the authorities. In retrospect Cruz made no secret of his inclinations and the authorities have been castigated for not locking him up or even taking his guns off him.

Of course that may be easier said than done, we are all innocent until proven guilty after all. But there must be a solution of some sort when these characters come across the radar of the police.

Which brings me to the subject of "Atomwaffen".

Atomwaffen are a nazi organisation with a history of violence and also a history of threats to America.


A 29-year-old resident of Las Vegas, Hubsky holds both a concealed weapons permit and a security guard license, and is a big fan of high-powered military-style firearms. In one post he discussed a favorite weapon: a Czech-made rifle called a CZ Scorpion that, Hubsky said, he’d converted to fully automatic and equipped with a flash suppressor.

In another message, Hubsky wrote that he was planning on getting an “FFL” — federal firearms license — so he could “manufacture” guns.

“I can literally become our armory in the event we need it,” Hubsky bragged.

And there is more.

Hubsky also discussed blowing up natural gas lines.

“You put a home-made thermite grenade on those,” he wrote. While other types of infrastructure — like water lines – figured in Hubsky’s discussions, hitting the power grid was, in his view, the most devastating and effective attack possible. Destroying electricity infrastructure, Hubsky wrote, “would by default take out the internet because it relies on power to operate.”

And even more.

“So in any war, you need to cut off your enemy’s ability to shoot, move and communicate,” Hubsky wrote in a September 2017 message posted in a discussion on white nationalism that occurred in a non-Atomwaffen chat room. “You would want to target things like: Substations, water filtration plants, etc.” ProPublica has obtained Hubsky’s statements from that online conversation.

There may only be 100 of these loons, organised into cells across the country. They are angry,armed and have an ideology that threatens your way of life.

So my question is this.

If action should have been taken against Cruz should action be taken against Atomwaffen and similar groups ?
Dont get partisan about this, its a principle we are talking about, and one that could be applied to groups of any political persuasion.

I am yet to be persuaded on the issue.

On the one hand the world would be a better place without these people. On the other hand "innocent till proven guilty" protects us from the excesses of the State.

What do you think ?

Atomwaffen

How do you know that the authorities haven't spoken or had contact with Hubsky? I think he is a nut however you can't lock people up for their thoughts can you? They seem to be aware of this group. There are several domestic terror groups that are out there. Last year we had groups organizing riots after the Presidential election and the government didn't seem at all interested in their violence, yet we now want to go after groups for thoughts because we find them offensive?

I'm not comfortable with the idea of the thought police, it could lead us down a dark road of abuse of power.

I am probably not too far away from your view. Atomwaffen do have a body count though.
Having said that how do you stop the next Cruz ?

 

[Papageorgio]

Neo-Nazi 'Atomwaffen' group celebrates member for allegedly murdering gay student

Its a long read but I wondered what peoples thoughts were in light of the Florida slaughter.

There has been much comment on the behaviour of Cruz ,his threats, his social media output and the fact that nothing was done by the authorities. In retrospect Cruz made no secret of his inclinations and the authorities have been castigated for not locking him up or even taking his guns off him.

Of course that may be easier said than done, we are all innocent until proven guilty after all. But there must be a solution of some sort when these characters come across the radar of the police.

Which brings me to the subject of "Atomwaffen".

Atomwaffen are a nazi organisation with a history of violence and also a history of threats to America.


A 29-year-old resident of Las Vegas, Hubsky holds both a concealed weapons permit and a security guard license, and is a big fan of high-powered military-style firearms. In one post he discussed a favorite weapon: a Czech-made rifle called a CZ Scorpion that, Hubsky said, he’d converted to fully automatic and equipped with a flash suppressor.

In another message, Hubsky wrote that he was planning on getting an “FFL” — federal firearms license — so he could “manufacture” guns.

“I can literally become our armory in the event we need it,” Hubsky bragged.

And there is more.

Hubsky also discussed blowing up natural gas lines.

“You put a home-made thermite grenade on those,” he wrote. While other types of infrastructure — like water lines – figured in Hubsky’s discussions, hitting the power grid was, in his view, the most devastating and effective attack possible. Destroying electricity infrastructure, Hubsky wrote, “would by default take out the internet because it relies on power to operate.”

And even more.

“So in any war, you need to cut off your enemy’s ability to shoot, move and communicate,” Hubsky wrote in a September 2017 message posted in a discussion on white nationalism that occurred in a non-Atomwaffen chat room. “You would want to target things like: Substations, water filtration plants, etc.” ProPublica has obtained Hubsky’s statements from that online conversation.

There may only be 100 of these loons, organised into cells across the country. They are angry,armed and have an ideology that threatens your way of life.

So my question is this.

If action should have been taken against Cruz should action be taken against Atomwaffen and similar groups ?
Dont get partisan about this, its a principle we are talking about, and one that could be applied to groups of any political persuasion.

I am yet to be persuaded on the issue.

On the one hand the world would be a better place without these people. On the other hand "innocent till proven guilty" protects us from the excesses of the State.

What do you think ?

Atomwaffen

How do you know that the authorities haven't spoken or had contact with Hubsky? I think he is a nut however you can't lock people up for their thoughts can you? They seem to be aware of this group. There are several domestic terror groups that are out there. Last year we had groups organizing riots after the Presidential election and the government didn't seem at all interested in their violence, yet we now want to go after groups for thoughts because we find them offensive?

I'm not comfortable with the idea of the thought police, it could lead us down a dark road of abuse of power.

I am probably not too far away from your view. Atomwaffen do have a body count though.
Having said that how do you stop the next Cruz ?

We as parents, teachers, citizens, fellow students need to listen to what kids are saying and talking about.

This security guard was paying attention,
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...guards-tip-police-say/?utm_term=.d894bd5cfc0e

There was a similar case where a grandmother in Washington state turned in her own grandson. Grandmother foils alleged school shooting plot in Washington state

Then we have a concerned student. Teen’s warning thwarts Vermont school shooting: 'It was a matter of lives at hand'

We need to get our minds off of electronic gadgets and engage with others and not let electronic isolation take over our lives.

All three of the above examples are people listening and then having the courage to take action.

Would they all have been school shooters? Not sure but now they can get some help.

 

[hazlnut]

You know Nazi party is the Democrat Socialist Workers Party? Are you finally coming clean that you want to see people like the gays killed for the ends justify the means?

Please don't try to interpret or explain history, you're terrible at it.

Nazi's called themselves National Socialist... but since they were in fact Fascists, they could force Germans to call them what ever they wanted.

Got it?

Good.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Neo-Nazi 'Atomwaffen' group celebrates member for allegedly murdering gay student

Its a long read but I wondered what peoples thoughts were in light of the Florida slaughter.

There has been much comment on the behaviour of Cruz ,his threats, his social media output and the fact that nothing was done by the authorities. In retrospect Cruz made no secret of his inclinations and the authorities have been castigated for not locking him up or even taking his guns off him.

Of course that may be easier said than done, we are all innocent until proven guilty after all. But there must be a solution of some sort when these characters come across the radar of the police.

Which brings me to the subject of "Atomwaffen".

Atomwaffen are a nazi organisation with a history of violence and also a history of threats to America.


A 29-year-old resident of Las Vegas, Hubsky holds both a concealed weapons permit and a security guard license, and is a big fan of high-powered military-style firearms. In one post he discussed a favorite weapon: a Czech-made rifle called a CZ Scorpion that, Hubsky said, he’d converted to fully automatic and equipped with a flash suppressor.

In another message, Hubsky wrote that he was planning on getting an “FFL” — federal firearms license — so he could “manufacture” guns.

“I can literally become our armory in the event we need it,” Hubsky bragged.

And there is more.

Hubsky also discussed blowing up natural gas lines.

“You put a home-made thermite grenade on those,” he wrote. While other types of infrastructure — like water lines – figured in Hubsky’s discussions, hitting the power grid was, in his view, the most devastating and effective attack possible. Destroying electricity infrastructure, Hubsky wrote, “would by default take out the internet because it relies on power to operate.”

And even more.

“So in any war, you need to cut off your enemy’s ability to shoot, move and communicate,” Hubsky wrote in a September 2017 message posted in a discussion on white nationalism that occurred in a non-Atomwaffen chat room. “You would want to target things like: Substations, water filtration plants, etc.” ProPublica has obtained Hubsky’s statements from that online conversation.

There may only be 100 of these loons, organised into cells across the country. They are angry,armed and have an ideology that threatens your way of life.

So my question is this.

If action should have been taken against Cruz should action be taken against Atomwaffen and similar groups ?
Dont get partisan about this, its a principle we are talking about, and one that could be applied to groups of any political persuasion.

I am yet to be persuaded on the issue.

On the one hand the world would be a better place without these people. On the other hand "innocent till proven guilty" protects us from the excesses of the State.

What do you think ?

Atomwaffen

You know Nazi party is the Democrat Socialist Workers Party? Are you finally coming clean that you want to see people like the gays killed for the ends justify the means?

50 dead, Islamic terrorism tie eyed in Orlando gay bar shooting

50 dead, Islamic terrorism tie eyed in Orlando gay bar shooting

Holocaust investigator on parallel between Nazis and ISIS

Holocaust investigator on parallel between Nazis and ISIS

which is why liberals and radical muslims have the same agenda and who doesn't give a shit when people die, it is all about the cause...

Try and address the OP.

Come and get them.....or die trying, anyway.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

10,000 Gun Control Laws, and Chicago is Still The Most Dangerous Shit Hole on The Planet!

Thanks Obama!

Here's to the day Rahm takes one right in the balls.

 

[westwall]

I think we as a country really need to look long and hard at the 2nd amendment. If we do not start there, we are just running in circles. Let's just be honest, folks...the 2nd Amendment is antiquated. It does not apply to today's society. We need to look at gun/weapons as a privilege and not a right. That's right, l said it. We need to look at guns the same way we look at cars and driving. It's a privilege to drive a car, why should it be any different when it come to guns?

We can talk about mental health til the cows come home, it still doesn't address the whole idea that owning a gun is right. It isn't, not in today's society. Let's keep in mind, when the second amendment was written we were a new country without a standing army. That just isn't the case today. We need to really look into our hearts and really question if we want to consider owning a gun as right...or a privilege. Until we address that, we are just running in circles.

Gun control is the ultimate form of class warfare. So you are basically saying it's Ok for the rich to have guns, but not the poor. Is that your position?

 

[westwall]

Neo-Nazi 'Atomwaffen' group celebrates member for allegedly murdering gay student

Its a long read but I wondered what peoples thoughts were in light of the Florida slaughter.

There has been much comment on the behaviour of Cruz ,his threats, his social media output and the fact that nothing was done by the authorities. In retrospect Cruz made no secret of his inclinations and the authorities have been castigated for not locking him up or even taking his guns off him.

Of course that may be easier said than done, we are all innocent until proven guilty after all. But there must be a solution of some sort when these characters come across the radar of the police.

Which brings me to the subject of "Atomwaffen".

Atomwaffen are a nazi organisation with a history of violence and also a history of threats to America.


A 29-year-old resident of Las Vegas, Hubsky holds both a concealed weapons permit and a security guard license, and is a big fan of high-powered military-style firearms. In one post he discussed a favorite weapon: a Czech-made rifle called a CZ Scorpion that, Hubsky said, he’d converted to fully automatic and equipped with a flash suppressor.

In another message, Hubsky wrote that he was planning on getting an “FFL” — federal firearms license — so he could “manufacture” guns.

“I can literally become our armory in the event we need it,” Hubsky bragged.

And there is more.

Hubsky also discussed blowing up natural gas lines.

“You put a home-made thermite grenade on those,” he wrote. While other types of infrastructure — like water lines – figured in Hubsky’s discussions, hitting the power grid was, in his view, the most devastating and effective attack possible. Destroying electricity infrastructure, Hubsky wrote, “would by default take out the internet because it relies on power to operate.”

And even more.

“So in any war, you need to cut off your enemy’s ability to shoot, move and communicate,” Hubsky wrote in a September 2017 message posted in a discussion on white nationalism that occurred in a non-Atomwaffen chat room. “You would want to target things like: Substations, water filtration plants, etc.” ProPublica has obtained Hubsky’s statements from that online conversation.

There may only be 100 of these loons, organised into cells across the country. They are angry,armed and have an ideology that threatens your way of life.

So my question is this.

If action should have been taken against Cruz should action be taken against Atomwaffen and similar groups ?
Dont get partisan about this, its a principle we are talking about, and one that could be applied to groups of any political persuasion.

I am yet to be persuaded on the issue.

On the one hand the world would be a better place without these people. On the other hand "innocent till proven guilty" protects us from the excesses of the State.

What do you think ?

Atomwaffen

How do you know that the authorities haven't spoken or had contact with Hubsky? I think he is a nut however you can't lock people up for their thoughts can you? They seem to be aware of this group. There are several domestic terror groups that are out there. Last year we had groups organizing riots after the Presidential election and the government didn't seem at all interested in their violence, yet we now want to go after groups for thoughts because we find them offensive?

I'm not comfortable with the idea of the thought police, it could lead us down a dark road of abuse of power.

I am probably not too far away from your view. Atomwaffen do have a body count though.
Having said that how do you stop the next Cruz ?

You stop him by arresting him for the multiple assaults he committed. It's really pretty simple. If just ONE of the multiple law enforcement agency's had done their jobs the asshole would have already been in prison. Not one of your vaunted government bureaus did their jobs. Not one. Congrats, these are the clowns you want to be armed, while the civilians get to be disarmed.

 

[westwall]

You know Nazi party is the Democrat Socialist Workers Party? Are you finally coming clean that you want to see people like the gays killed for the ends justify the means?

Please don't try to interpret or explain history, you're terrible at it.

Nazi's called themselves National Socialist... but since they were in fact Fascists, they could force Germans to call them what ever they wanted.

Got it?

Good.

Fascist=collectivist. Socialist=collectivist. What's the difference? Use your own words.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Thread moved. No explanation. Its been in the CDZ for over a week.

 

[Tilly]

Thread moved. No explanation. Its been in the CDZ for over a week.

Maybe it’s because you, Tammy, refused to state what you, the OP, thinks should/could be done when specifically asked? That’s not really in the spirit of clean debate. Just a thought!

 

[eddiew37]

I think we as a country really need to look long and hard at the 2nd amendment. If we do not start there, we are just running in circles. Let's just be honest, folks...the 2nd Amendment is antiquated. It does not apply to today's society. We need to look at gun/weapons as a privilege and not a right. That's right, l said it. We need to look at guns the same way we look at cars and driving. It's a privilege to drive a car, why should it be any different when it come to guns?

We can talk about mental health til the cows come home, it still doesn't address the whole idea that owning a gun is right. It isn't, not in today's society. Let's keep in mind, when the second amendment was written we were a new country without a standing army. That just isn't the case today. We need to really look into our hearts and really question if we want to consider owning a gun as right...or a privilege. Until we address that, we are just running in circles.

Gun control is the ultimate form of class warfare. So you are basically saying it's Ok for the rich to have guns, but not the poor. Is that your position?

Certainly not But we need to start just trying to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill whether they be rich or poor and republicans saying Dems want to take their guns away is just so much bullcrap

 

[Papageorgio]

I think we as a country really need to look long and hard at the 2nd amendment. If we do not start there, we are just running in circles. Let's just be honest, folks...the 2nd Amendment is antiquated. It does not apply to today's society. We need to look at gun/weapons as a privilege and not a right. That's right, l said it. We need to look at guns the same way we look at cars and driving. It's a privilege to drive a car, why should it be any different when it come to guns?

We can talk about mental health til the cows come home, it still doesn't address the whole idea that owning a gun is right. It isn't, not in today's society. Let's keep in mind, when the second amendment was written we were a new country without a standing army. That just isn't the case today. We need to really look into our hearts and really question if we want to consider owning a gun as right...or a privilege. Until we address that, we are just running in circles.

What you think are far as right or privilege is irrelevant, the hard fact is in this country owning a gun is a right. Work with your lawmaker to overturn the 2nd Amendment. You have a long battle ahead of you.

 

[eddiew37]

I think we as a country really need to look long and hard at the 2nd amendment. If we do not start there, we are just running in circles. Let's just be honest, folks...the 2nd Amendment is antiquated. It does not apply to today's society. We need to look at gun/weapons as a privilege and not a right. That's right, l said it. We need to look at guns the same way we look at cars and driving. It's a privilege to drive a car, why should it be any different when it come to guns?

We can talk about mental health til the cows come home, it still doesn't address the whole idea that owning a gun is right. It isn't, not in today's society. Let's keep in mind, when the second amendment was written we were a new country without a standing army. That just isn't the case today. We need to really look into our hearts and really question if we want to consider owning a gun as right...or a privilege. Until we address that, we are just running in circles.

What you think are far as right or privilege is irrelevant, the hard fact is in this country owning a gun is a right. Work with your lawmaker to overturn the 2nd Amendment. You have a long battle ahead of you.

IS IT a right for mentally challenged to have and carry guns..?.....maybe ok in your neighborhood

 

[Papageorgio]

I think we as a country really need to look long and hard at the 2nd amendment. If we do not start there, we are just running in circles. Let's just be honest, folks...the 2nd Amendment is antiquated. It does not apply to today's society. We need to look at gun/weapons as a privilege and not a right. That's right, l said it. We need to look at guns the same way we look at cars and driving. It's a privilege to drive a car, why should it be any different when it come to guns?

We can talk about mental health til the cows come home, it still doesn't address the whole idea that owning a gun is right. It isn't, not in today's society. Let's keep in mind, when the second amendment was written we were a new country without a standing army. That just isn't the case today. We need to really look into our hearts and really question if we want to consider owning a gun as right...or a privilege. Until we address that, we are just running in circles.

What you think are far as right or privilege is irrelevant, the hard fact is in this country owning a gun is a right. Work with your lawmaker to overturn the 2nd Amendment. You have a long battle ahead of you.

IS IT a right for mentally challenged to have and carry guns..?.....maybe ok in your neighborhood

Define mentally challenged.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

I think we as a country really need to look long and hard at the 2nd amendment. If we do not start there, we are just running in circles. Let's just be honest, folks...the 2nd Amendment is antiquated. It does not apply to today's society. We need to look at gun/weapons as a privilege and not a right. That's right, l said it. We need to look at guns the same way we look at cars and driving. It's a privilege to drive a car, why should it be any different when it come to guns?

We can talk about mental health til the cows come home, it still doesn't address the whole idea that owning a gun is right. It isn't, not in today's society. Let's keep in mind, when the second amendment was written we were a new country without a standing army. That just isn't the case today. We need to really look into our hearts and really question if we want to consider owning a gun as right...or a privilege. Until we address that, we are just running in circles.

What you think are far as right or privilege is irrelevant, the hard fact is in this country owning a gun is a right. Work with your lawmaker to overturn the 2nd Amendment. You have a long battle ahead of you.

IS IT a right for mentally challenged to have and carry guns..?.....maybe ok in your neighborhood

Define mentally challenged.

I know, I know....

 

[eddiew37]

I think we as a country really need to look long and hard at the 2nd amendment. If we do not start there, we are just running in circles. Let's just be honest, folks...the 2nd Amendment is antiquated. It does not apply to today's society. We need to look at gun/weapons as a privilege and not a right. That's right, l said it. We need to look at guns the same way we look at cars and driving. It's a privilege to drive a car, why should it be any different when it come to guns?

We can talk about mental health til the cows come home, it still doesn't address the whole idea that owning a gun is right. It isn't, not in today's society. Let's keep in mind, when the second amendment was written we were a new country without a standing army. That just isn't the case today. We need to really look into our hearts and really question if we want to consider owning a gun as right...or a privilege. Until we address that, we are just running in circles.

What you think are far as right or privilege is irrelevant, the hard fact is in this country owning a gun is a right. Work with your lawmaker to overturn the 2nd Amendment. You have a long battle ahead of you.

IS IT a right for mentally challenged to have and carry guns..?.....maybe ok in your neighborhood

Define mentally challenged.

Sorry pap Google it I'm not a doctor and don't want to steer you wrong with my definition For starters though see sassy bripat and jc for examples

 

[Papageorgio]

I think we as a country really need to look long and hard at the 2nd amendment. If we do not start there, we are just running in circles. Let's just be honest, folks...the 2nd Amendment is antiquated. It does not apply to today's society. We need to look at gun/weapons as a privilege and not a right. That's right, l said it. We need to look at guns the same way we look at cars and driving. It's a privilege to drive a car, why should it be any different when it come to guns?

We can talk about mental health til the cows come home, it still doesn't address the whole idea that owning a gun is right. It isn't, not in today's society. Let's keep in mind, when the second amendment was written we were a new country without a standing army. That just isn't the case today. We need to really look into our hearts and really question if we want to consider owning a gun as right...or a privilege. Until we address that, we are just running in circles.

What you think are far as right or privilege is irrelevant, the hard fact is in this country owning a gun is a right. Work with your lawmaker to overturn the 2nd Amendment. You have a long battle ahead of you.

IS IT a right for mentally challenged to have and carry guns..?.....maybe ok in your neighborhood

Define mentally challenged.

Sorry pap Google it I'm not a doctor and don't want to steer you wrong with my definition For starters though see sassy bripat and jc for examples

That is my point, "mentally challenged" is a broad term, you can broadly apply the term too many. Also, those with mental illness tend to be less violent than the general population.