Big Labor Strike Coming Soon

[Zoomie1980]

Dam, but the coporate thieves just love people like you, Ali.

Business has always had the upper hand. One person or a few can organize and make the rules a hell of a lot easier than a million workers with no single voice.

The unions didn't fuck up the banking business. The bankers did, but they get a free bail out.

Without unions we would still have sweat shops and only minimum wages at best.

Maybe if we had a decent fucking universal health plan, we wouldn't be tacking that cost on to each car made and all the other products we still make.

Le'ts just go along with Ali in our love and trust of all big business. At least we won't have to listen to her drivel for long. They will take away the internet except for the rich.

What some people don't seem to realize is you can't have business without owners and you can't have business without workers. It's just easier to replace the workers, so it's also easier to screw them.

Hopefully, Obama and the Dems can halt Reagan's war on the middle class which has reached a new zenith with the current economy ala Bush and the NeoCons.

Without unions we would still have a vibrant American Manufacturing sector. Unions have single handily gutted Textiles, Steel, Machine Parts, heavy equipment, and now, the US auto industry.... Funny how Toyota and Honda and BMW are doing so much better all making cars in the US

 

[KittenKoder]

I would love to see a world wide labor strike ... all the desk jockies would die of starvation.

 

[editec]

Way to do your part in reducing inflation.
Unions are nothing but gangs holding business hostage.

Q: Why are rises in wages thought inflationary but not a rises in stock prices or dividends?

Q: Why do we celebrate when the billionaires grow even more wealthy, but, at the same time, we ignore that the climb in the percentage of people living in poverty?

Q: Why have they been understating the rate of inflation by 75%-100% since 1999? (last year's inflation rate was posted at 5.8%...it was more like 11% if you compute it using the methodology used pre 1999)

Q: Why have they been understating the real rate of unemployment?


A: The answer to all the above questions is this: CLASS WAR.

 

[KittenKoder]

Q: Why are rises in wages thought inflationary but not a rises in stock prices or dividends?

Q: Why do we celebrate when the billionaires grow even more wealthy, but, at the same time, we ignore that the climb in the percentage of people living in poverty?

Q: Why have they been understating the rate of inflation by 75%-100% since 1999? (last year's inflation rate was posted at 5.8%...it was more like 11% if you compute it using the methodology used pre 1999)

Q: Why have they been understating the real rate of unemployment?


A: The answer to all the above questions is this: CLASS WAR.

Most I know too little of to answer myself, but the last one I CAN answer.

The reason the unemployment rating that is reported is wrong is because they only account for those collecting or recently collected unemployment payments. As for those who have been out of work for a long time, the employable yet untrained disabled, and the vagabonds/vagrants, they do not count. Many vagabonds and vagrants are more than willing to work but have a difficult time getting started, and no one helps them. The employable disabled use to have programs that offered training in careers they were able to work, but those were all canceled by both dems and reps many years ago. The numbers are wrong simply because they don't want people to remember these.

 

[RodISHI]

I would love to see a world wide labor strike ... all the desk jockies would die of starvation.

Let us just stick to American workers for the moment and see if we can get things back on track to where the American dream is more than a legend back in the good ole days.



The people of America have been sold out for too long. I remember when Kaiser Steel was still alive. My daughter was born at the Kaiser hospital.

I still have vivid memories of the men I knew that worked their daily. These were everyday champions that would fight at the drop of a hat for those who suffered injustice. They would literally give you the shirt off of their backs if they thought you needed it.

My own childrens great grandfather worked at Kaiser steel for 30 years. He fought for this country for freedom and liberty. He joined the army at twelve years old when pearl harbour was attacked. The man was literally a hero in more ways than most in this day can possibly understand. It was heart breaking for him when Kaiser steel closed and jobs like he had raised his family on were sent overseas.

Too many people are blaming unions for jobs going overseas. When the truth is many of these companies were bought at a low point and then stripped by corporate raiders. The men who worked there for twenty to thirty years were denied the pensions that they earned. I have not one bit of love for those who would deny a man the right to earn a living and secure a future for the later years of their life.

For those who claim to love my Lord Yahushua/Jesus Christ and fail to love their fellow man enough to care is that fellow man can feed his family, I have no sympathy for you in the Lord's day.

Ali, by your statements you are either very uneducated or simply do not care enough for your fellow man to allow him to enjoy even a small amount of the work of his own hands.

Jesus/Yahushua said, "Take up your cross and follow me." Does anyone who claims to believe think that does not include them?

 

[editec]

I remember Bethelem Steel going down.

How stupid are we to allow our government to write laws that force such things to happen?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Dam, but the coporate thieves just love people like you, Ali.

Business has always had the upper hand. One person or a few can organize and make the rules a hell of a lot easier than a million workers with no single voice.

The unions didn't fuck up the banking business. The bankers did, but they get a free bail out.

Some of us believe that the government should not be bailing out anyone or any business.

Have you thought about TARP? We have an unelected official, Paulson, with absolutely no accountability to anyone, who has been given control over billions and soon to be trillions of tax payer dollars. There is absolutely nothing in the Constitution that allows this type of governmental power especially when concentrated in the hands of an unelected official who is not subject to any of the Constitutional controls elected government officials have to abide by.

Without unions we would still have sweat shops and only minimum wages at best.

Then tell me why nonunion shops pay more than minimum wage? Unions had their place in the past and yes, they did a lot for all workers. But when unions, as they do now, result in diminishing returns for businesses, it makes no sense to cater to them. Tell me what good is a union, if it puts the employer of their members out of business?

Maybe if we had a decent fucking universal health plan, we wouldn't be tacking that cost on to each car made and all the other products we still make.

Health insurance doesn't have to be as expensive as it is. All that needs to be done is to allow people ans businesses to band together in large groups for insurance purposes. As you know, the more people paying premiums, the lower the premiums go. Right now a small business cannot take advantage of large group rates. But if all businesses in a state or county were allowed to be grouped together as one insurable entity, you would find that insurance premiums would plummet and businesses could pay a larger share or perhaps the entire premium as a benefit. But employees would have to realize that an employer who pays all their health insurance might not be able to pay a higher wage than another company.

Insurance premiums for my employees range from 300-500 a month for single member plans. That could be even lower if we could pool our employees with other local businesses.

What some people don't seem to realize is you can't have business without owners and you can't have business without workers. It's just easier to replace the workers, so it's also easier to screw them.

You do realize that it is cheaper for most businesses that require some sort of skilled labor to keep rather than replace employees right?

Paying a skilled, experienced employee a higher wage than a newbie actually brings more not less profit to an employer. Replacing, retraining and time needed for a new employee to become proficient cost a lot more than keeping an existing employee unless we're talking about floor sweepers and ditch diggers here.

What's wrong with merit pay? Why can't an employer pay some people more than others? Collective bargaining is nothing but grading on a curve.

What would you think of a school that allowed students to collectively bargain with professors? Students demand that everyone be given a passing grade no matter how well they did on the test. (Pretty much like we have now but mandated by a contract) And all students in the school are expected to join the "union" of students. Those that wreck the curve by excelling are called scabs.

What reward is there for the kids who study when others party, who excel while others slide by?

Union collective bargaining is the same thing. All workers get the same pay and benefits whether they deserve them or not. Why should an employer pay a less productive employee the same as a productive one? This question becomes especially important when we talk about teachers unions. Why shouldn't an employer be unable to fire an employee without all the red tape and lawsuits?

If our system was 100% merit based, we would all benefit because we would all have to continually improve.

Grading on a curve( collective bargaining) reduces us by rewarding mediocrity.

 

[RodISHI]

I remember Bethelem Steel going down.

How stupid are we to allow our government to write laws that force such things to happen?

Strip a nation's wealth and the people become very compliant.

 

[editec]

If our system was 100% merit based, we would all benefit because we would all have to continually improve.

From your pen to God's ear.

 

[NOBama]

How stupid are we to allow our government to write laws that force such things to happen?

True enough. Only thing I would add is that we still allow them to do it.

 

[RodISHI]

Tell me what good is a union, if it puts the employer of their members out of business?

How many unions have sued their employer's insurance provider? Isn't it a fact that the employer chooses their insurance carrier? The collective bargaining power you speak of is in the hands of the insurance provider and the employer as you have unwittingly just revealed. If you proclaim to despise collective bargaining so bad why are you on this forum showing your ass so ignorantly in its support?

Health insurance doesn't have to be as expensive as it is. All that needs to be done is to allow people ans businesses to band together in large groups for insurance purposes.

What is this Skull? What do you think the workers and UAW are doing? You want your own special seperate union here? You want some special right to band together in large groups for insurance purposes yet you have the audacity to deny the same right to your work force? Besides, with your massive proclaimed payroll of 100 and less employees, I'm sure you know all about the UAW and the problems encountered trying to represent thousands upon thousands of workers? You have got to be the dumbest representative for executive employee management on the planet.Tell your vanity to have a seat, it's interfering with your better judgment.

As you know, the more people paying premiums, the lower the premiums go. Right now a small business cannot take advantage of large group rates. But if all businesses in a state or county were allowed to be grouped together as one insurable entity, you would find that insurance premiums would plummet and businesses could pay a larger share or perhaps the entire premium as a benefit. But employees would have to realize that an employer who pays all their health insurance might not be able to pay a higher wage than another company.

Insurance premiums for my employees range from 300-500 a month for single member plans. That could be even lower if we could pool our employees with other local businesses.

You do realize that it is cheaper for most businesses that require some sort of skilled labor to keep rather than replace employees right? [\QUOTE]


Quit wasting your time on here and go after the bank and insurance company industry. They lay together in the same bed. And when you get them under control with your magic whip, go after the medical industry and their high costs and collegiate trained wages. After they sick their high powered attornies and lawfirms on you for rocking their boat, then come back on here and explain to us all about how you solved this big crisis you were so worried about!

Paying a skilled, experienced employee a higher wage than a newbie actually brings more not less profit to an employer. Replacing, retraining and time needed for a new employee to become proficient cost a lot more than keeping an existing employee unless we're talking about floor sweepers and ditch diggers here.

You insolent ass, who do you think built the building you're in? Who takes care of that building after you go home at night? Labor, both union and non-union. Maybe you're just one of those slicks who threw out a shingle and work out of the garage that came with the place you bought from the banker whose ass you kiss to keep your little kingdom intact. If not, you need to take a good look at the crap spewing out of your mouth. Better yet, tell one of your overpaid employees to get you on tape. You can play back the tape at the teller's window as you kiss the ass of the banker who slid you your good deal on your shack and garage. The rest of your post isn't worth the cost of a cup of coffee and isn't worth the time it takes a poor man to wipe his behind. You want to be productive? Sell your megabusiness to your employees and join the ranks out here in the trenches who are fighting the real beast up close and personal. Sell off the rest of your material trash around you and live without water, heat and food on the table every night and day. You better thank your insolent stars you got someone to take care of you because you sure as hell won't last long out here on your own. By the way, why don't you just "PISS OFF!" as you told my wife to do.
The rest of your vain self centered dribble is not worth wasting time on. I owned hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of construction equipment and machinery. I owed nothing on it. It wasn't financed but was paid for free and clear. An internationally recognized bank stole it from me when they took my wife out of business. My name was not and could not be on this loan. Yet, I lost it all because of an out of control bank and cheap ass insurance company. You are an affront to anyone who is in business today as you represent the very mentality which is destroying what others before you sacrificed for. Take a hike and look me up after you get it together. You are one step away from the poor house lad just like the rest of us whether you know it or not. The CEO's, the banks and the insurance companies are in the same boat. Now that my man, is JUSTICE!

Rod

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

To the Executuve Branch,

When the corporate CEO's, bankers, the House and Senate politicians and the rest of the fat cats in this sell out and sold out economized country take their pay cuts, then and only then do they have even a remote right to expect the rest of working class Americans to take a mandated pay cut. This is crap and it is going to start a labor battle in this country that hasn't been seen for decades.

Wall Street and Washington wants to play games with everyone's livelihood. When your future's market cattle, hogs and sheep can't get to the packing houses, your Detroit cars can't get hauled to the dealers and your construction machinery and equipment can't get hauled and your sub-standard retail store chains wares are setting in Jersey and L.A. getting snagged by the dock boys, don't come bitching to Labor for a bailout.

I don't know how many of you guys on this forum are writers and/or reporters but you need to start putting this out there so people know what's coming. I've got a friend who took on over 500 over the road trucks to serve a cartage contract for a bunch of sellout greed mongers. The oil futures Wall Street leeches nailed him on fuel, the wall street banker he had for years mysteriously cancelled his multi-million dollar lines of credit, etc. etc. etc, I could go on and on. How far do these ignorant, sold out bought on credit legislators and good ole boy business cronies expect the American people to go?

Somebody in D.C. better wake up because from what I'm hearing out here in rural America time is running out. This new president has no idea what he is getting into. It's not that people out here won't tighten up a belt and roll up sleeves and get on with it but people, they aren't willing to carry (literally) this country much farther while a bunch of futures traders and bankers are out selling it off. And another thing while I'm on a roll here, don't expect the military to hang tight forever either. And the first one of you arm chair Charlie's that tell me to get a life can go straight to Hell! Myself and others out here and our kids and grandkids have a life. We are getting damn tired of a bunch of D.C. dumbasses selling us out for nothing. You have already soldout our yesterdays now you want to sellout our tomorrows too! Get off of labor's ass and get on the fat cat CEO's ass.

Rod

GREAT! That should make it easy to see who needs firing...

 

[Skull Pilot]

How many unions have sued their employer's insurance provider? Isn't it a fact that the employer chooses their insurance carrier? The collective bargaining power you speak of is in the hands of the insurance provider and the employer as you have unwittingly just revealed. If you proclaim to despise collective bargaining so bad why are you on this forum showing your ass so ignorantly in its support?

the employer who provides insurance chooses the carrier who will charge the lowest premiums. And collective bargaining is not a term that relates to insurance companies. their premiums are published and they are what they are. if you want insurance, you either pay the stated premiums or you don't get insurance.

You obviously didn't understand my post. Collective bargaining as done by the unions does nothing more than promote mediocrity. It is the same as grading on a curve. There is no pay rate or pay raise based on merit.

What is this Skull? What do you think the workers and UAW are doing? You want your own special seperate union here? You want some special right to band together in large groups for insurance purposes yet you have the audacity to deny the same right to your work force? Besides, with your massive proclaimed payroll of 100 and less employees, I'm sure you know all about the UAW and the problems encountered trying to represent thousands upon thousands of workers? You have got to be the dumbest representative for executive employee management on the planet.Tell your vanity to have a seat, it's interfering with your better judgment.

An insurable entity is NOT a union. all it does is allow people and businesses to do is to take advantage of the law of large numbers. You're all bitching that insurance is too expensive. i give you a simple solution to make it more affordable and in typical liberal fashion you whine about it.

Insurance premiums have nothing to do with unions demanding the same pay rate for all employees. Once again you missed my point.

The UAW in representing its thousands of workers made the auto industry uncompetitive and may put some companies out of business because the union would rather see a company fold than give concessions. yeah that's looking out for the employees all right. Now a lot of them will be out of a job.

Quit wasting your time on here and go after the bank and insurance company industry. They lay together in the same bed. And when you get them under control with your magic whip, go after the medical industry and their high costs and collegiate trained wages. After they sick their high powered attornies and lawfirms on you for rocking their boat, then come back on here and explain to us all about how you solved this big crisis you were so worried about!

You are a moron. You think that auto workers should be paid the same as a doctor? And the high cost of medicine is in part because of nurses unions.

I have no idea where you got the notion that i am on the banks side here and I despise lawyers. but you have a choice when dealing with those businesses. you can NOT put your money in a bank, you can NOT apply for a loan at a bank. you're off on a tangent that has nothin gto do with your topic of a labor strike.

You insolent ass, who do you think built the building you're in? Who takes care of that building after you go home at night? Labor, both union and non-union. Maybe you're just one of those slicks who threw out a shingle and work out of the garage that came with the place you bought from the banker whose ass you kiss to keep your little kingdom intact.

All I did was apply for a mortgage and get approved. that's kissing a banker's ass?

If not, you need to take a good look at the crap spewing out of your mouth. Better yet, tell one of your overpaid employees to get you on tape. You can play back the tape at the teller's window as you kiss the ass of the banker who slid you your good deal on your shack and garage.

But I thought there was no such thing as an overpaid employee. Aren't you of the mind that ALL employees are being screwed by business and bankers and lawyers and insurance companies and.... You're a victim aren't you?

The rest of your post isn't worth the cost of a cup of coffee and isn't worth the time it takes a poor man to wipe his behind.

And yet, you spent all this time responding to it. So your response must be equally worthless.

You want to be productive?

I AM productive. See I work for myself so if I don't produce, I don't get paid. not like some union worker who can't be fired even though his work sucks.

Sell your megabusiness to your employees and join the ranks out here in the trenches who are fighting the real beast up close and personal. Sell off the rest of your material trash around you and live without water, heat and food on the table every night and day. You better thank your insolent stars you got someone to take care of you because you sure as hell won't last long out here on your own.

FYI, I have "been on my own" since I was 18. No one gave me anything you ignorant prick. And i know what it's like not to have heat or lights. But instead of whining about it and blaming everyone under the sun, I did something about it.

By the way, why don't you just "PISS OFF!" as you told my wife to do.
The rest of your vain self centered dribble is not worth wasting time on.

And neither is your I'm the victim paranoia

I owned hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of construction equipment and machinery. I owed nothing on it. It wasn't financed but was paid for free and clear. An internationally recognized bank stole it from me when they took my wife out of business. My name was not and could not be on this loan. Yet, I lost it all because of an out of control bank and cheap ass insurance company. You are an affront to anyone who is in business today as you represent the very mentality which is destroying what others before you sacrificed for.

There's obviously more to your story that you are not telling us. Were you incorporated so that your personal and business finances would be separated and thus protected? Or was everything owned personally? If a bank took your equipment there had to be some legal reason why they could do so. And it might be your mistake for not protecting yourself.

Take a hike and look me up after you get it together. You are one step away from the poor house lad just like the rest of us whether you know it or not. The CEO's, the banks and the insurance companies are in the same boat. Now that my man, is JUSTICE!

YAWN. You have no idea where i am financially so don't assume. And I was for letting banks and insurance companies fold. i was never for the bail out and I am not for the auto bail out. justice as you say would be the government NOT taking money out of my pocket to prop up a failing business model.

 

[RodISHI]

There we have it Skull says it is okay for business to have collective bargaining power but a working man should not have that right.

Thanks Skull for confirming that the banks, the insurance companies, the medical industry, FTC, SEC, Federal Reserve, IRS and Wall Street in America have "collectively bargained' as you call it all of our asses into the trash can.

I am sure they will all thank you for your loyal service.

 

[editec]

There we have it Skull says it is okay for business to have collective bargaining power but a working man should not have that right.

And yet, when some of us point out what a class war this nation is in, they don't know what we're talking about.

Thanks Skull for confirming that the banks, the insurance companies, the medical industry, FTC, SEC, Federal Reserve, IRS and Wall Street in America have "collectively bargained' as you call it all of our asses into the trash can.

I am sure they will all thank you for your loyal service.

I'm reasonably sure that Skull isn't actually responsible for this mess.

When he finally figures out who the perps really are, I'm also reasonably sure he'll be as pissed as we are.

Right now a LOT of Americans are still detoxing from the propaganda they've been poisoned with that blames everything on liberals.

As they discover that their heros of capitalism are basically crooks, not capitalists, they'll stop blaming the victims of their carefully organized swindles, I'm sure.

 

[RodISHI]

And yet, when some of us point out what a class war this nation is in, they don't know what we're talking about.



I'm reasonably sure that Skull isn't actually responsible for this mess.

When he finally figures out who the perps really are, I'm also reasonably sure he'll be as pissed as we are.

Right now a LOT of Americans are still detoxing from the propaganda they've been poisoned with that blames everything on liberals.

As they discover that their heros of capitalism are basically crooks, not capitalists, they'll stop blaming the victims of their carefully organized swindles, I'm sure.

She was not accusing skull of being responsible for this mess. I am saying that in his ignorance he is supporting it. The problem is I am at a loss as to how I can help him to see it. When he told my wife to "piss off", he showed his ignorance and any consideration that I may have given to him or his arguments went out the window. His disrepect belies his ignorance.

Rod

 

[Skull Pilot]

There we have it Skull says it is okay for business to have collective bargaining power but a working man should not have that right.

You are fabricating an argument idiot. Where did I say businesses and insurance companies have collective bargaining? Quote me if you can. And you can't.

And as you call them working men have the right to organize just as businesses have the right not to enter into labor contracts with unions.

Personally I see businesses that run on a merit based pay scale where the best employees are rewarded and the worst are weeded out as a better plan than a business that agrees to pay everyone the same rate regardless of the quality of their work and where those same poor workers are impossible to fire.

Thanks Skull for confirming that the banks, the insurance companies, the medical industry, FTC, SEC, Federal Reserve, IRS and Wall Street in America have "collectively bargained' as you call it all of our asses into the trash can.

I am sure they will all thank you for your loyal service.

That's right DipShiti. The whole world has conspired just to screw you.

I don't want a union bargaining for my pay. I would rather out perform my fellow employees and negotiate my own pay rather than be lumped into the pool of mediocrity that unions foster.

And if you would bother to read anything I've posted, you'd know that I am no fan of the fucking government. I have been nothing but critical of the FED and our politicians.

You on the other hand seem to want the government to step in to bail out the UAW but you don't want the government to bail out the banks. I say the government should stay the fuck out of business and let failing business fail.

If a company can't pay workers what they demand and stay in business, the company has 2 options. Pay too much and go out of business or hire a work force that will work for what the company can afford to pay.


Tell me why in 2007 did Toyota and GM sell about the same number of cars did GM lose 36 billion dollars and Toyota made a 17 billion dollar profit?

I'll help you out here. GM is running an unsustainable business model due in large part to the UAW and their demands. So let the union drive GM into insolvency and when all those guys are out of work, you tell me how the union was looking out for them.

 

[Skull Pilot]

She was not accusing skull of being responsible for this mess. I am saying that in his ignorance he is supporting it. The problem is I am at a loss as to how I can help him to see it. When he told my wife to "piss off", he showed his ignorance and any consideration that I may have given to him or his arguments went out the window. His disrepect belies his ignorance.

Rod

http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/65353-were-lowering-your-wages-18.html#post930653

I told your wife to piss off because she was continually misrepresenting my arguments.

Kind of like what you are doing.

Here's an idea. Get your own screen name. It's free you know.

No one knows who they're addressing you or your wife and it makes you sound schizophrenic.

 

[RodISHI]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/65353-were-lowering-your-wages-18.html#post930653

I told your wife to piss off because she was continually misrepresenting my arguments.

Kind of like what you are doing.

Here's an idea. Get your own screen name. It's free you know.

No one knows who they're addressing you or your wife and it makes you sound schizophrenic.

Obviously you fail to read well.

Signed, Rod

 

[driveby]

Right now a LOT of Americans are still detoxing from the propaganda they've been poisoned with that blames everything on liberals.

Jesus Christ .....