Big Tech’s H1B Arguments Aren’t Just FALSE… They’re Also Immoral.

[DonGlock26]

The question is, why do Companies (not the "Deep State", whatever that is) prefer H1B to American Tech grads?

Yes, I am sure that the element of sponsorship increases loyalty among H1B workers. An American can walk off the minute someone offers them more money. An H1B person is less likely to swap jobs, as it means getting sponsorship all over again.

I think the other problem is work ethic. A lot of Americans, particularly Gen Z, have shit work ethics.

They work cheap and for way more than 40 hours a week with no overtime.

 

[JoeB131]

I made some good coin in the mid-90's as a network troubleshooter and contract tech geek in Seattle. I worked for one of the top tech companies in Seattle, and I temped at some of the pioneering companies in computer technologies, building out the infrastructure.

Microsoft was the leading edge of the H1B boom. Good IT people were in high demand and made good money, and Microsoft did not like that.

The boom lasted about 5 years, and then the profession had been pretty much commoditized by the influx of H1B workers from India and the outsourcing of tech support to call centers in Bangalore.

In the 80's we outsourced our manufacturing, and were told the future was all about "information technology". In the 90's we outsourced our IT work, and were told the future was all about "financial services".

We know how that one worked out...

Yet you keep voting for people like Trump who are doing the outsourcing.

Shit, even your MAGA hat was made in China.

 

[DonGlock26]

Hey, what about H1B Police Officers then...or even H1B immigration attorneys that manage the processing of H1B applicants...

There are plenty of migrant cops- especially in NYC. I've seen several in UK videos as well.

 

[DonGlock26]

Yet you keep voting for people like Trump who are doing the outsourcing.

Shit, even your MAGA hat was made in China.

You don't think Democrat billionaires use cheap foreign labor?

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Actualy, that's not entirely true. A lot of Doctors I've had have been from the Indian Subcontinent.

Yes, I think that with medicine there are transition programs for foreign trained doctors anyway and most working foreign doctors here are not on an H1B visa anyway.

As far as Indians hiring other Indians, given America has been white people hiring other white people, I'm not sure there's much of a complaint to be made.

I understand but two wrong don't make a right. I came in to the US originally on an H1B visa and the reason is that my particular skill was very scarce so I was lucky and jumped at the chance to leave London. But when I see huge companies like Google using 5,000+ H1B workers from overseas then that tells me something is fundamentally wrong and we should fix that and not fix it by letting the employer hire so many people from overseas but force companies to institute training and apprenticeships and so on.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

There's a story about my own H1B Visa. I was living in London and had to submit my full application to the US Embassy, that included proof of UK residence, proof of a UK bank account and lots of other proof of qualifications etc, a big fat pack of documents.

It was Monday Sept 10, 2001 and it was mid afternoon and I needed one more document from a bank, but they had a system problem. I had planned to meet a friend for a few brews later that day and was like, OK I'll grab this last doc tomorrow and just relax for the day. But I also wanted it done and dusted, no loose ends so I visited a different bank branch and spoke to the manager who was able to get me what I needed by making some calls and printing some stuff and signing it so I did that.

I trotted off to said embassy and passed two huge black security men in uniforms and handed my stuff to a reception person then headed off for my brews.

Next morning I got a call from my friend in New York, she said "I'm just heading to a meeting at the federal reserve and I can see thousands of sheets of paper flying around, someone said a small plane hit one of the twin towers, so it will probably be on the news, anyway, gotta go talk later".

The rest of course is history, I made a coffee and put TV on and yes indeed, it was on the news and the US embassy was on lock down, nobody was able to do business with them.

 

[para bellum]

The new future is AI/ machine learning.

And how long I wonder, until the machines take over that job for themselves?

It's kind of unnerving. I read somewhere recently that 2 AI's were introduced, and the first thing they did was create an encrypted language between them for communicating- one that the programmers could not decypher.

We have a way sometimes, of barging ahead without much regard for the unintended consequences...

 

[para bellum]

Yet you keep voting for people like Trump who are doing the outsourcing.

Trump's position has been more pro-US manufacturing and US jobs, than any US President at least since Reagan, and possibly in all of my lifetime.

I am not interested in having the discussion with a leftist ideologue. Move along.

 

[Doc7505]

The question is, why do Companies (not the "Deep State", whatever that is) prefer H1B to American Tech grads?

Yes, I am sure that the element of sponsorship increases loyalty among H1B workers. An American can walk off the minute someone offers them more money. An H1B person is less likely to swap jobs, as it means getting sponsorship all over again.

I think the other problem is work ethic. A lot of Americans, particularly Gen Z, have shit work ethics.

~~~~~~
Indeed, some of our Gen Z offspring have poor work ethics and habits. But at the same time H1-B applicants seem to be more enthusiastic about their jobs not their salaries.

 

[Doc7505]

You're right, a H1B locks you down very very tightly to a single employer. But having said that, employers hire at will and if they can't retain American staff at competitive rates then that's their problem I think. They'll have no qualms about dumping a worker whenever they see fit, like after a merger or the end of some big project, things are always favoring the employer never the employee.

~~~~~~~
Hmm...., Capitalism raises it's ugly head in corporate mergers.

 

[toobfreak]

H1B visas apply more to workers with skills that native-born Americans can easily learn through technical training programs or even collegiate classes. Think more programmer or mid-level software engineer than someone trained in semiconductor fabrication.

Well, the H1B really applies to people whom an employer can hire who already have advanced degrees in specialized fields. Where the problem arises is that employers try to bring them in at lower wages than most Americans would accept.

Where Americans are at a disadvantage is because:

1. Americans bear a high cost for their education.
2. Foreigners coming here are often sponsored with government programs which help defray much of their cost.
3. Let's face it, a lot of foreigners (from Asia, etc.) tend to be smarter and harder working, a cultural thing.

Too many Americans want everything handed to them on a platter, and now they are paying the price. The H1B program needs revised and updated, meanwhile, our labor force needs lots more highly educated and skilled people.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Big Tech’s H1B Arguments Aren’t Just FALSE… They’re Also Immoral.​

Big Tech's H1B Arguments Aren't Just FALSE... They're Also Immoral. - The National Pulse

A fierce debate has broken out between President-elect Donald J. Trump’s very recent tech industry supporters and his long-standing America First base. At the core of the disagreement is the subject of legal immigration—specifically, how Trump should handle so-called “high-skilled” foreign...

thenationalpulse.com

27 Dec 2024 ~~ By William Upton

A fierce debate has broken out between President-elect Donald J. Trump’s very recent tech industry supporters and his long-standing America First base. At the core of the disagreement is the subject of legal immigration—specifically, how Trump should handle so-called “high-skilled” foreign worker programs like the H1B visa.
One of the staunchest proponents of expanding the labor pool in this way is billionaire Elon Musk. In a Christmas Day post on X, Musk exclaimed America needs more than double the 160,000 semiconductor industry engineers said to be required by 2032.

​

Additionally, Musk-allies and newly-named artificial intelligence (AI) advisors to President-elect Trump, David Sacks, and Sriram Krishnan, have both emerged as loud advocates for more legal immigration, expanding the high-skilled labor supply through changes to the H1B visa lottery.

A FLAWED MORALITY.​

While bringing allegedly top talent from around the world to the United States sounds good on its face, this isn’t actually what H1B visas do.
The O-1 visa is actually the program used to grant legal work status to a foreign nation in the United States that is considered a ‘once-in-a-generation’ intellectual talent in a critical industrial sector.
H1B visas apply more to workers with skills that native-born Americans can easily learn through technical training programs or even collegiate classes. Think more programmer or mid-level software engineer than someone trained in semiconductor fabrication.
~Snip~

…AND A COMPLETE SCAM.​

Little data actually supports the tech industry’s claims of a worker shortage and a need to end H1B country caps. The data does suggest, however, that big tech is replacing qualified and capable American workers with cheaper foreign labor.
Between 2022 and 2024, Amazon laid off nearly 30,000 high-skilled workers. In the same period—though in compliance with federal law regarding when companies can request H1B visa workers—the online retail giant expanded its workforce by nearly 100,000 foreign workers.
~Snip~
Despite the layoffs, Amazon asked the federal government for a total allotment of 125,000 new H1B visa workers between 2022 and 2024, while they requested to retain around 90,000.
Similar trends are true for Google and Microsoft. Between 2022 and 2024, nearly 60,000 American workers were laid off among the three companies, while the companies increased their H1B employees by over 340 percent.

View attachment 1058823​

IS THERE A LABOR SHORTAGE?​

Ultimately, the entire need for H1B workers is predicated on a supposed domestic worker shortage. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the current native-born American labor force participation is around 63 percent. Meanwhile the foreign-born labor force participation is a stunning 68 percent.
Importantly, per the Wall Street Journal: “…census data show immigrants who arrived since the start of 2020 are more than twice as likely to lack a high-school diploma as U.S.-born workers.”
In January 2007, the overall American labor force participation rate was around 66 percent, but has declined to 62.5 percent. When you examine the data overall, there is a strong suggestion that the high labor force participation among foreign-born workers is actually the cause of the lower rate of participation among native-born workers, pricing them out of the job market through downward pressure on wages.
Additionally, even the big tech companies’ own annual reports suggest they’re not suffering from any significant shortage in skilled labor. Elon Musk’s own Tesla slashed 14 percent of its workforce in 2024. Generally, a company struggling with fulfilling its labor needs might see a small need to cut workers if it cannot hire to keep up with demand, but far more common is the company hiring instead of laying off workers at all. You certainly wouldn’t see around a fifth of a corporation’s labor force being laid off amid a worker shortage.
In November of 2023, tech-giant Apple was sanctioned $25 million in fines and back pay due to American workers who were discriminated against in hiring—with the company essentially rigging its recruitment process in favor of foreign workers.
Conclusively, there are excellent arguments for a more fierce O1B recruiting policy, but the idea of expanding H1B visas for foreign workers should be a total non-starter for MAGA. Not only are the arguments for it untrue, but creating more competition for American workers is not even close to the ‘America First’ philosophy.

Commentary:
Excellent Article by Upton. Seems there are many young guys with IT degrees that can’t get an IT job and they end up in sales or service. Some companies stand up multiple departments with H1B people from India that can barely speak English. Sad fact these companies don’t care to train our youth.
These "indentured servants" take the jobs of American graduates, blocking their entry into their chosen field. While the H1-B Program is technically not an immigration program, they never leave. Having blocked Americans from the entry level jobs, they go on to fill the mid and upper level jobs as well. We have to break this cycle.
The cost of an H1-B Technician (to an employer) should be to pay for the education of an American, and to hire that graduate, as the H1-B is returned to their home country.
Is the answer in the elimination of the H1-B Program, or companies training those young Americans into our workforce.
Like all government Programs, the H1B program serves a need in the US. The problem is not the program.
The problem is that Deep State and corporations have abused and are continuing to abuse the program.
We shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

College Is for Teenagers Who Are Afraid to Grow Up

It is a totally unAmerican institution. It rewards birth and brown-nosing rather than worth. The epitaph on the tombstone of the American economy will read: TO GET A GOOD JOB, GET A GOOD EDUCATION.

Notice it doesn't say TO DO A GOOD JOB. It's for no-talent class-climbing job thieves who, at great personal cost and long-term psychological damage, are willing to humiliate themselves in order to please their preordained Masters.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

They work cheap and for way more than 40 hours a week with no overtime.

College Is for Coolies

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

There's a story about my own H1B Visa. I was living in London and had to submit my full application to the US Embassy, that included proof of UK residence, proof of a UK bank account and lots of other proof of qualifications etc, a big fat pack of documents.

It was Monday Sept 10, 2001 and it was mid afternoon and I needed one more document from a bank, but they had a system problem. I had planned to meet a friend for a few brews later that day and was like, OK I'll grab this last doc tomorrow and just relax for the day. But I also wanted it done and dusted, no loose ends so I visited a different bank branch and spoke to the manager who was able to get me what I needed by making some calls and printing some stuff and signing it so I did that.

I trotted off to said embassy and passed two huge black security men in uniforms and handed my stuff to a reception person then headed off for my brews.

Next morning I got a call from my friend in New York, she said "I'm just heading to a meeting at the federal reserve and I can see thousands of sheets of paper flying around, someone said a small plane hit one of the twin towers, so it will probably be on the news, anyway, gotta go talk later".

The rest of course is history, I made a coffee and put TV on and yes indeed, it was on the news and the US embassy was on lock down, nobody was able to do business with them.

All the "I" Stands for Is Ego

If we had High IQs at the C"I"A instead of Diploma Dumbos, 9/11 would never have happened. But, of course, they never get blamed for incompetence. People think that because they are called an "intelligence" agency, they must be the best and the brightest.

Just like all the other brown-nosing professions, they don't need a watchdog; they need a seeing-eye dog.

 

[skye]

Just saying

 

[sparky]

well....how does anyone think folks become billionaires??? ~S~

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

There are plenty of migrant cops- especially in NYC. I've seen several in UK videos as well.

Legal migrants are a whole different kettle of fish.

 

[Doc7505]

There's a story about my own H1B Visa. I was living in London and had to submit my full application to the US Embassy, that included proof of UK residence, proof of a UK bank account and lots of other proof of qualifications etc, a big fat pack of documents.

It was Monday Sept 10, 2001 and it was mid afternoon and I needed one more document from a bank, but they had a system problem. I had planned to meet a friend for a few brews later that day and was like, OK I'll grab this last doc tomorrow and just relax for the day. But I also wanted it done and dusted, no loose ends so I visited a different bank branch and spoke to the manager who was able to get me what I needed by making some calls and printing some stuff and signing it so I did that.

I trotted off to said embassy and passed two huge black security men in uniforms and handed my stuff to a reception person then headed off for my brews.

Next morning I got a call from my friend in New York, she said "I'm just heading to a meeting at the federal reserve and I can see thousands of sheets of paper flying around, someone said a small plane hit one of the twin towers, so it will probably be on the news, anyway, gotta go talk later".

The rest of course is history, I made a coffee and put TV on and yes indeed, it was on the news and the US embassy was on lock down, nobody was able to do business with them.

~~~~~~
Here' another point of view...

​

 

[scruffy]

Corporate America is definitely abusing the H1B system.

 

[JoeB131]

You don't think Democrat billionaires use cheap foreign labor?

I'm sure they do. But they aren't hypocrites about it.

So they stir up the immigrant hate for white trash losers like you to blame your failed and disappointing lives on, while they make big bucks hiring them instead of you.

But the concept goes right over your head.

College Is for Teenagers Who Are Afraid to Grow Up

It is a totally unAmerican institution. It rewards birth and brown-nosing rather than worth. The epitaph on the tombstone of the American economy will read: TO GET A GOOD JOB, GET A GOOD EDUCATION.

Look, man, we all get that you weren't smart enough to get into college.