Brazil,80% of country on Ethanol flex fuel vehicles,with GM engines why not America?

[Chris]

Nope, the single family detached home WILL continue for generations to come. My neighborhood, nor most of them will not be a "slum" any time soon.

Now we very well will see a rebirth of rails, very likely. While Americans are consuming less, using more fuel efficient cars, which will become electric or fuel cell and will NOT cost enough to force Americans to give up their suburban lifestyle. We may see older neighborhoods nearer to city centers revive and we also will see a decentralization of business centers and an explosion of telecommunting allowing vast sums of work to take place at home, negating the need to commute at all.

But know, some sort of transformation to a Western European lifestyle is simply not going to happen even though it is clearly the wet dream of every secular-progressive elite urban liberal in the country. It simply is NOT going to happen.

And yes, Europe has absolutlely NOTHING of value to offer America.

No, my friend, just about every country in the world has something to teach us. The Europeans have better healthcare, better gun control laws, and better public transportation than we do. They also have a rich cultural heritage to share with us. They are our best friends, and a country without friends cannot accomplish much.

 

[Voltaire]

No, my friend, just about every country in the world has something to teach us. The Europeans have better healthcare, better gun control laws, and better public transportation than we do. They also have a rich cultural heritage to share with us. They are our best friends, and a country without friends cannot accomplish much.

Ehh Kirk, we're going to have to agree to disagree on part of that...
Transportation, yes, our rail system is the laughing stock of the world, and we need some help on that front.

Gun control laws? I think the jury is out at to whether that type of regulation is intrinsically "better". Take this article for instance: Thugs committing 350 knife assaults EVERY DAY, as menace spreads to rural areas | Mail Online

According to that article, not only are folks over in England and Wales encountering increasing gun related violence (up 2 percent last year) and an increase in homocides, now they have to deal with the rising popularity of knife-based offenses, where kids are getting brutally stabbed to death, or at least robbed by people brandishing knives.

So what to do? Outlaw knives, and then blunt objects, and then making fists in public...I'm just not convinced that regulation is the answer.

Healthcare, on the other hand...Canada may be of some interest to us, but I don't think Europe's shoddy hospitals have much to offer in the way of inspiration. Just my opinion on that one.

 

[Epsilon Delta]

There are about as many cars on the road in the entire country of Brazil as what hits the road in Toledo Ohio each workday... It's one thing to produce ethanol for a country whose economy is about 1/100th that of the US

Just to clarify: Brazil is the 10th largest economy in the world, with a nominal GDP of $1.3 Trillion.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Just to clarify: Brazil is the 10th largest economy in the world, with a nominal GDP of $1.3 Trillion.

How many Cars does Brazil have on the road?

 

[Chris]

Ehh Kirk, we're going to have to agree to disagree on part of that...
Transportation, yes, our rail system is the laughing stock of the world, and we need some help on that front.

Gun control laws? I think the jury is out at to whether that type of regulation is intrinsically "better". Take this article for instance: Thugs committing 350 knife assaults EVERY DAY, as menace spreads to rural areas | Mail Online

According to that article, not only are folks over in England and Wales encountering increasing gun related violence (up 2 percent last year) and an increase in homocides, now they have to deal with the rising popularity of knife-based offenses, where kids are getting brutally stabbed to death, or at least robbed by people brandishing knives.

So what to do? Outlaw knives, and then blunt objects, and then making fists in public...I'm just not convinced that regulation is the answer.

Healthcare, on the other hand...Canada may be of some interest to us, but I don't think Europe's shoddy hospitals have much to offer in the way of inspiration. Just my opinion on that one.

Our healthcare system was rated 37th in the world behind all the Western European countries. We do lead the world in gun deaths, however. We're number one! We're number one!



Friday, April 17, 1998
U.S. Leads Richest Nations In Gun Deaths




BY CHELSEA J. CARTER
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS



ATLANTA -- The United States has by far the highest rate of gun deaths -- murders, suicides and accidents -- among the world's 36 richest nations, a government study found.
The U.S. rate for gun deaths in 1994 was 14.24 per 100,000 people. Japan had the lowest rate, at .05 per 100,000.
The study, done by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, is the first comprehensive international look at gun-related deaths. It was published Thursday in the International Journal of Epidemiology.
The CDC would not speculate why the death rates varied, but other researchers said easy access to guns and society's acceptance of violence are part of the problem in the United States.
``If you have a country saturated with guns -- available to people when they are intoxicated, angry or depressed -- it's not unusual guns will be used more often,'' said Rebecca Peters, a Johns Hopkins University fellow specializing in gun violence. ``This has to be treated as a public health emergency.''
The National Rifle Association called the study shoddy because it failed to examine all causes of violent deaths.
``What this shows is the CDC is after guns. They aren't concerned with violence. It's pretending that no homicide exists unless it's related to guns,'' said Paul Blackman, a research coordinator for the NRA in Fairfax, Va.
The 36 countries chosen were listed as the richest in the World Bank's 1994 World Development Report, with the highest GNP per capita income.
The study used 1994 statistics supplied by the 36 countries. Of the 88,649 gun deaths reported by all the countries, the United States accounted for 45 percent, said Etienne Krug, a CDC researcher and co-author of the article.
Japan, where very few people own guns, averages 124 gun-related attacks a year, and less than 1 percent end in death. Police often raid the homes of those suspected of having weapons.
The study found that gun-related deaths were five to six times higher in the Americas than in Europe or Australia and New Zealand and 95 times higher than in Asia.
Here are gun-related deaths per 100,000 people in the world's 36 richest countries in 1994: United States 14.24; Brazil 12.95; Mexico 12.69; Estonia 12.26; Argentina 8.93; Northern Ireland 6.63; Finland 6.46; Switzerland 5.31; France 5.15; Canada 4.31; Norway 3.82; Austria 3.70; Portugal 3.20; Israel 2.91; Belgium 2.90; Australia 2.65; Slovenia 2.60; Italy 2.44; New Zealand 2.38; Denmark 2.09; Sweden 1.92; Kuwait 1.84; Greece 1.29; Germany 1.24; Hungary 1.11; Republic of Ireland 0.97; Spain 0.78; Netherlands 0.70; Scotland 0.54; England and Wales 0.41; Taiwan 0.37; Singapore 0.21; Mauritius 0.19; Hong Kong 0.14; South Korea 0.12; Japan 0.05.


http://www.guncite.com/cnngunde.html

 

[editec]

For about $10,000 you can buy your own ethanol distillery (due to come out for sale this year).

It uses sugar and enthanol producing yeast and produces about 35 gallons of enthanol-for-fuel a week.

Just read about this technology last evening on line.


Here it is

EFuel100, Earth's First Home Ethanol System, a Product of E-Fuel Corporation

Looks pretty cool, but then I'm not the guy to critique its economic value.

How It Works
The MicroFueler is both a pump station and an ethanol distiller reduced to an appliance-sized unit. The pump operation has the same user-friendly LCD interface found at most gas stations. This remarkable product uses micro sensors and state-of-the-art membrane technology, which keeps the unit size small and combustion free. And to further simplify the distillation process for consumers, the MicroFueler uses sugar instead of starches, which cuts the distillation period considerably.

To operate simply load EFuel100 feedstock (table sugar with ethanol yeast mix) into the fermentation tank and select the fermentation option on the control panel to begin the process. It will take between 10lbs to 14lbs of sugar to produce 1 gallon of ethanol. The MicroFueler is capable of producing 5 gallons of ethanol per day once fermentation is complete.

However, if I owned a bar, I suspect this might truly be something I'd consider investing in.

Why? read on..

Discarded Alcohol Recovery Mode
The MicroFueler has a distillation-only mode, which allows the consumer to convert discarded beer, wine or distilled drinks into ethanol--any combination of discarded alcohol can be poured directly into the MicroFueler fermentation tank to be converted into ethanol. Caution should be taken not to allow any discarded impurities, such as dirt or debris, to enter the fermentation tank which could clog or harm the future operation of the MicroFueler system. This can be achieved by passing the liquid through a fine sieve or cheesecloth to filter unwanted particles before they can enter into the MicroFueler distillation tank.

The cost for processing discarded liquor can run as low as $0.10 per gallon of ethanol produced. A typical bar or restaurant discards thousands of gallons of alcohol annually! Beer and wine beverages can yield between 5 to 20 percent ethanol and distilled drinks upwards of 40% ethanol for liquor. Even greater benefit may be seen by wineries, breweries and distilled spirits refineries where it is not uncommon to discard over a million gallons of alcohol per year. Truly, an untapped market for E-Fuel customers!

Looks pretty nifty, doesn't it?

 

[Shogun]

I guess no one remember the massive tax break that the BUSH ADMIN gave to people buying SUVs in 03?

 

[Paulie]

I guess no one remember the massive tax break that the BUSH ADMIN gave to people buying SUVs in 03?

Definitely one of his more ridiculous domestic moves.

 

[Shogun]

AND one heck of an example of how this supposed "free market system" is being shat upon by liberals.


not that I think a free market system is any less chaotic and fucked up as those that are manipulated by the power du jour.

 

[AllieBaba]

"I saw a news report that Brazil is %80 percent independent from Oil.They use
%80 percent Ethanol now, and have flex fuel vehicles made by GM!,what is
the American Dept of Transportation waiting for?We are spending billions on Middle eastern oil, and Brazil is using it Sugar caine crop to fuel their vehicles,and the Flex Fuel engines are made by General Motors?!Can some one
explain to me what is going on?!"


Er...I'd like some more information about this. To my knowledge, Brazil is oil-independent because it HAS IT'S OWN OIL, not because it's 80 percent ethanol.

 

[Paulie]

AND one heck of an example of how this supposed "free market system" is being shat upon by liberals.


not that I think a free market system is any less chaotic and fucked up as those that are manipulated by the power du jour.

I would have to think that in '03, had consumers known that there would be this oil issue in 5 years, they would have opted for something else, even in the face of the tax loophole.

I think back then though, there were several warning signs, including the mistreatment of the Dollar via horrible US monetary policy. But then, do most consumers even care about that kind of stuff, let alone be educated on it?

There again, I blame the MSM. I blame them, because it's obviously where people turn to for information, as sad as that is, and the MSM had no shortages of SUV pimping segments.

 

[Shogun]

I would have to think that in '03, had consumers known that there would be this oil issue in 5 years, they would have opted for something else, even in the face of the tax loophole.

I think back then though, there were several warning signs, including the mistreatment of the Dollar via horrible US monetary policy. But then, do most consumers even care about that kind of stuff, let alone be educated on it?

There again, I blame the MSM. I blame them, because it's obviously where people turn to for information, as sad as that is, and the MSM had no shortages of SUV pimping segments.

Do you really think the US, a society hellbent on immediate gratification, would have made better choices? It's not like this little energy issue is NEW. I think, much like GM ceos, those who HAD the opportunity took it future be damned.

I dont blame the MSM. THEY didn't manipulate SUV prices or act like a Hummer was a great investment. I blame capitalists who are in it as long as it takes to make a buck society be damned. I blame "conservatives" who talk about free markets but then don't have the balls to let their economic philosophy hit the fan in fear of lasting political reprocussions. One can't assume that the SU population is going to choose broccoli over candy when chocolate is being waved in their faces. Nor can we alleviate the responsbility of chicken necked capitalists who tout hummers 4 years before they lost dominance in the market to economic cars. It's a "take the money and run" business practice that I blame and it's directly anchored in bullshit "free market" rhetoric worn on the sleeve of conservatives.

 

[Paulie]

Do you really think the US, a society hellbent on immediate gratification, would have made better choices? It's not like this little energy issue is NEW. I think, much like GM ceos, those who HAD the opportunity took it future be damned.

I dont blame the MSM. THEY didn't manipulate SUV prices or act like a Hummer was a great investment. I blame capitalists who are in it as long as it takes to make a buck society be damned. I blame "conservatives" who talk about free markets but then don't have the balls to let their economic philosophy hit the fan in fear of lasting political reprocussions. One can't assume that the SU population is going to choose broccoli over candy when chocolate is being waved in their faces. Nor can we alleviate the responsbility of chicken necked capitalists who tout hummers 4 years before they lost dominance in the market to economic cars. It's a "take the money and run" business practice that I blame and it's directly anchored in bullshit "free market" rhetoric worn on the sleeve of conservatives.

What exactly did the ills of the free market have to do with Bush dangling a carrot in front of people's faces, and consumers sucking on it?

I mean, the free market is not perfect. The will of the people was to choose SUV's back then, and now that their decisions seem to have been ill conceived, they are making a change. If anything, I say that's the good side of the free market.

Would you have preferred the government mandate that people buy Neons?

 

[Chris]

What exactly did the ills of the free market have to do with Bush dangling a carrot in front of people's faces, and consumers sucking on it?

I mean, the free market is not perfect. The will of the people was to choose SUV's back then, and now that their decisions seem to have been ill conceived, they are making a change. If anything, I say that's the good side of the free market.

Would you have preferred the government mandate that people buy Neons?

The Big Three realized that there was more profit in SUVs, so they started pushing them. No president since Carter was willing to champion conservation, so America ended up getting screwed.

And yes I would have preferred fuel efficiency laws to prevent America from becoming a third world nation.

 

[Paulie]

The Big Three realized that there was more profit in SUVs, so they started pushing them. No president since Carter was willing to champion conservation, so America ended up getting screwed.

And yes I would have preferred fuel efficiency laws to prevent America from becoming a third world nation.

Let's blame the market for Bush being a fucking moron, YET AGAIN.

Bush enticed the free market to act irrationally. Without the tax loophole, how many SUV's would have still been sold? No one can say for sure, but obviously it would be a lot less, or else Bush wouldn't have given the Big 3 that handjob, right?

 

[Shogun]

What exactly did the ills of the free market have to do with Bush dangling a carrot in front of people's faces, and consumers sucking on it?

I mean, the free market is not perfect. The will of the people was to choose SUV's back then, and now that their decisions seem to have been ill conceived, they are making a change. If anything, I say that's the good side of the free market.

Would you have preferred the government mandate that people buy Neons?

the Ills of the 'free market" is the same thing as Ponce looking for the fabled fountain of youth. It's a philosophical ideal that is simply NOT attainable. And, even if it were, pretending that it would provide an economic stability as promised is a pipe dream. Hell, even the original idea blamed god for such benovelonce rather than throwing paint in the air and assuming the mona lisa will paint itself on the ground.

No, the WILL of the people were to take immediate gratification via tax breaks. Without that dangled carrot, LARGELY based on capitalist glad handing of a republican president, we was moving towards energy efficient vehicles since the mid 90s.


MANDATED? nope. USING THE SAME METHOD to promote smaller cars in the face of an IMMEDIATE energy crisis? yes. Capitalists worship greed above all else... even national identity. By facilitating GM ceos who gets to suffer? Certainly not the administration too stupid to look beyond it's first term Certainly NOT chicken necked CEOs and their free market patsies who were quick to hop on the SUV bandwagon. You wanna preach the free market? Lets see you drum up the balls to let GMs ceo put it out of business. Same with the current lender crisis.

 

[Shogun]

Let's blame the market for Bush being a fucking moron, YET AGAIN.

Bush enticed the free market to act irrationally. Without the tax loophole, how many SUV's would have still been sold? No one can say for sure, but obviously it would be a lot less, or else Bush wouldn't have given the Big 3 that handjob, right?

Hey, don't blame us. WE didn't vote for the 04 posterboy for "conservative" politics.


free market capitalists are like dreamers spitting in the wind and assuming that their salivation will fly off like superman as long as no hands touch it.

 

[AllieBaba]

I love the mentality of simple minded fools who think one person is to blame for the shortages and economic woes caused by liberal policies and practices.

Honestly. You guys think the pres has a lot more influence than he does.

 

[Shogun]

HA!

yea.. signing the fucking bailout into law sure is just like the actions of a man who has very little to do with it.


and, again, don't blame his "liberal" policies on us, baba.. YOU voted for him.. YOU claimed he was your conservative saviour with each W bumper sticker. YOU swallowed the bullshit hook, line and sinker. Hindsight sucks, eh?

 

[AllieBaba]

I'm not blaming his liberal policies for anything. NOr did I claim him as a conservative anything. He's not conservative, he never has been.

The liberal policies which are screwing us are the ones which prevent us from drilling (thank you Bill),which prevent us from using our own resources.

Not thrilled about allowing Mexican truckers to move back and forth across the borders, but I don't see that as any part of the problem at this point. Give it 10 years.