Bush

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by jon_forward
they are scrapping the very bottom trying to smear him, much like a child would act when they know they are wrong....about the same way the 8 democrats are acting toward one another,

...But I'm right about Dubbyuh.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
...But I'm right about Dubbyuh.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by jimnyc
That's not what I asked you. Was it Oxford or Harvard? And if some people pass through college with above average grades that doesn't make those that had average grades dumb. I had a 3.9 average when I was in college, does that mean those who had a 3.0 were dumb?



Did he do what was expected of him to attain the title of pilot? Have you accomplished this? If not, what gives you the right to condemn the grades of those who have taken the tests successfully?



He's worked his ass off as well, both in business and politics. I'd venture a guess that he's been a helluva lot more successful than you as well. Does this make you dumb? Nope, just makes your statements dumb.

Yer settin' up straw men and knockin' them down...Talk about lame!

Point one: Who gives a rats ass where it was, or what grade ya got as long as ya came by it honestly? I don't.

Point two: Grounded for not showing up for flight medical...AWOL, remember?

Point three: Arbusto Energy- Crapped out , bought by Harken Energy, which promptly put Howdy on its board of directors. Ya know , the Bush cachet. Poppy was a Senator by that time. Harken went tits up, Howdy sold his stock a few days before Harken Energy stocks tanked...He was on the audit committee at the time...did an Enron before Enron was a wet ink spot on its contracts.

Yeah Buddy! He's been ALOT more successful than me. I woulda been thrown in jail for that bit of insider trading.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by mwbuccs
anyone that kisses jew ass is dumb.

Ah crap!...An anti-semite too?

 

[jimnyc]

Point one: Who gives a rats ass where it was, or what grade ya got as long as ya came by it honestly? I don't.

Because there's a big difference between Harvard and McDonaldland College. As long as your degree makes you happy though...

You infer that he didn't pass one of the most prestigious colleges honestly. Is that what you are saying? Can you provide proof if so?

Point two: Grounded for not showing up for flight medical...AWOL, remember?

That's it, ignore the points I made. You're still wrong though. You speak of his intelligence and then ignore the points that deal with his intelligence directly. He passed. He was a pilot. You haven't the first clue what it takes. Looks like the score is Bush - 2 and You - ZERO

Point three: Arbusto Energy- Crapped out , bought by Harken Energy, which promptly put Howdy on its board of directors. Ya know , the Bush cachet. Poppy was a Senator by that time. Harken went tits up, Howdy sold his stock a few days befor Harken Energy stocks tanked...He was on the audit committee at the time...did an Enron before Enron was a wet ink spot on its contracts.

And this has what to do with intelligence? I see you forgot to add all the succesful business ventures he's been a part of. You forgot his term as Governor and forgot his current term as President of the USA. Looks like his resume pisses all over yours.

 

[lilcountriegal]

AWOL, remember?

I get SOOO tired of hearing this argument. If Bush was AWOL, as you suggest, he would NOT have received an Honorable Discharge from the service.

Bush's drill performance also stirred controversy during the campaign. Some reports charged that he was absent for a year. However, probably the most comprehensive media review of Bush's military records concluded that while he, "served irregularly after the spring of 1972 and got an expedited discharge, he did accumulate the days of service required for him for his ultimate honorable discharge." The review was done by Georgemag.com, the online version of the magazine founded by the late John F. Kennedy Jr.

Guardsmen say Bush's service record is not unusual. "In any six-year time frame you probably can find some problems," says retired Rep. G.V. 'Sonny' Montgomery, D-Miss., founder of the House Guard and Reserve Caucus. "Just learning to fly the F-102 and not getting hurt and not hurting anybody is an accomplishment." Montgomery called Bush's election, "nothing but a plus for the Guard." The New York Times also looked into the charge and found it lacked substance:

Two Democratic senators today called on Gov. George W. Bush to release his full military record to resolve doubts raised by a newspaper about whether he reported for required drills when he was in the Air National Guard in 1972 and 1973. But a review of records by The New York Times indicated that some of those concerns may be unfounded. The Times examined the record in response to a previous Boston Globe story.

Documents reviewed by The Times showed that Mr. Bush served in at least 9 of the 17 months in question... On Sept. 5, 1972, Mr. Bush asked his Texas Air National Guard superiors for assignment to the 187th Tactical Recon Group in Montgomery "for the months of September, October and November." Capt. Kenneth K. Lott, chief of the personnel branch of the 187th Tactical Recon Group, told the Texas commanders that training in September had already occurred but that more training was scheduled for Oct. 7 and 8 and Nov. 4 and 5. But Mr. Bartlett said Mr. Bush did not serve on those dates because he was involved in the Senate campaign, but he made up those dates later.

Colonel Turnipseed, who retired as a general, said in an interview that regulations allowed Guard members to miss duty as long as it was made up within the same quarter. Mr. Bartlett pointed to a document in Mr. Bush's military records that showed credit for four days of duty ending Nov. 29 and for eight days ending Dec. 14, 1972, and, after he moved back to Houston, on dates in January, April and May. The May dates correlated with orders sent to Mr. Bush at his Houston apartment on April 23, 1973, in which Sgt. Billy B. Lamar told Mr. Bush to report for active duty on May 1-3 and May 8-10. Another document showed that Mr. Bush served at various times from May 29, 1973, through July 30, 1973, a period of time questioned by The Globe.

Even the Boston Globe's story admits Bush served more than the minimum time, and was a fine pilot:

Those who trained and flew with Bush, until he gave up flying in April 1972, said he was among the best pilots in the 111th Fighter-Interceptor Squadron. In the 22-month period between the end of his flight training and his move to Alabama, Bush logged numerous hours of duty, well above the minimum requirements for so-called ''weekend warriors.''

Indeed, in the first four years of his six-year commitment, Bush spent the equivalent of 21 months on active duty, including 18 months in flight school. His Democratic opponent, Vice President Al Gore, who enlisted in the Army for two years and spent five months in Vietnam, logged only about a month more active service, since he won an early release from service.

Incidentally, Bush flew with the 111th Fighter-Interceptor Squadron, which was attached to the 147th Fighter Wing, based in Houston, Texas. While Bush's unit never got called to Vietnam, the 147th was. From 1968 through 1970, pilots from the 147th participated in operation "Palace Alert" and served in Southeast Asia during the height of the Vietnam War. The 147th came off runway alert on Jan. 1, 1970 to start a new mission of training all F-102 pilots in the United States for the Air National Guard.

Bush enlisted as an Airman Basic in the 147th Fighter-Interceptor Group at Ellington Air Force Base, Houston, on May 28, 1968 - at a time when the 147th was actively participating in combat in Vietnam. However, one can not train overnight to be a pilot. Bush completed basic flight training and then, from December 1969 through June 27, 1970, he was training full-time at Ellington to be an F-102 pilot.

Bush volunteered to serve in a unit at the very moment it was seeing combat in Vietnam, and only a restructuring of the unit's mission before he completed his flight training made it unlikely he would fly in combat.

And he was never AWOL - he completed his required service and even served beyond the minimum.

link to the Times article

 

[jon_forward]

nice post lilcountrygal

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by lilcountriegal
I get SOOO tired of hearing this argument. If Bush was AWOL, as you suggest, he would NOT have received an Honorable Discharge from the service.

Then why were the documents surrounding the circumstances of his admission to flight school permanently sealed?

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by jimnyc
Because there's a big difference between Harvard and McDonaldland College. As long as your degree makes you happy though...

You infer that he didn't pass one of the most prestigious colleges honestly. Is that what you are saying? Can you provide proof if so?

That's it, ignore the points I made. You're still wrong though. You speak of his intelligence and then ignore the points that deal with his intelligence directly. He passed. He was a pilot. You haven't the first clue what it takes. Looks like the score is Bush - 2 and You - ZERO

And this has what to do with intelligence? I see you forgot to add all the succesful business ventures he's been a part of. You forgot his term as Governor and forgot his current term as President of the USA. Looks like his resume pisses all over yours.

Whether it comes from Haavaad or a state college really isn't an issue, except to people who are hung up on such things.

It's been a long night, and I'll dig up the references tomorrow.

Face it, Dubbyuh was a toy soldier.

Uhh...He left the Texas economy a smoking crater in the ground. It's too early to tell the damage he's doing to the US economy as the mushroom cloud is still swirling up into the stratosphere.

And ya really gotta get over the straw-man arguments. There's no comparison between Dubbyuh and me... I'm the better human being.

 

[Bullypulpit]

"THE Republican frontrunner for the White House, George W Bush, was suspended from flying as a young pilot for failing to take a medical examination that included a drug test.

"Documents obtained by The Sunday Times [UK] reveal that in August 1972, as a 26-year-old subaltern in the Air National Guard, Bush was grounded for failing to "accomplish" an annual medical that would have indicated whether he was taking drugs....While he has consistently admitted to a "misspent youth", Bush has evaded questions about cocaine or other drug use, implying only that he has not taken illegal substances since 1974, the year after he left the Air National Guard....

"Bush was not required to face drug tests when he first entered the reserve unit as a Yale graduate in 1968. It was only at the end of 1971 that the US Air Force, facing a backlash against drug-fuelled escapades in Vietnam, introduced a screening policy. In April 1972 the Pentagon implemented a drug-abuse testing programme that required officers on "extended active duty", including reservists such as Bush, to undergo at least one random drug test every year. The annual medical exam that year included a routine analysis of urine, a close examination of the nasal cavities and specific questions about drugs....

"Bush was said to have been unable to take the medical because he was in Alabama while his doctor was in Houston. [Last week] his campaign official, however, said Bush was aware that he would be suspended for missing his medical as soon as he left Houston because the air force was unable to process his new status before the August deadline for the test. "It was just a question of following the bureaucratic procedure of the time," he said. "He knew the suspension would have to take place."

"William Turnipseed, a retired general who commanded the Alabama unit at the time, said Bush never appeared for duty. Two commanders at Ellington air force base in Houston said in his record they were unable to perform his annual evaluation covering the year from May 1, 1972 to April 30, 1973. "Lt Bush has not been observed at this unit during the period of this report," they wrote.

"...Chris Lapetina, a former marine and Democratic political consultant, said controversy about the medical exam could hurt Bush's chances among several voting blocks, including pensioners and veterans. Many servicemen would be upset if they thought a possible future president had avoided an obligatory military examination that included a drug test, he said. "When someone doesn't take a physical in the military there's got to be very good reason," Lapetina said. "It looks like he made a decision not to take it because the alternative was unpalatable." " --Sunday Times (UK), 6/17/00 (story)

 

[jon_forward]

now he is a druggy, give me a break, dont you guys ever some of this stuff is way over the top? no. probably not..

 

[nbdysfu]

hate to drop a fat man on this love fest but Lefty Wilbury posted this a while ago and you might take a read...

http://www.ngaus.org/ngmagazine/main101.asp

Number 19
January 2001
George W. Bush is the latest in a long line of U.S. presidents who once served in the National Guard.

By Lisa Daniel

By now, most Americans know that President-elect George W. Bush has made history in several ways: He's the son of a former president who took the closest election on record while not taking the popular vote.

But Bush will have another distinction when he is sworn in as the 43rd president Jan. 20: He will be the first former Air Guardsman in the White House and the 19th president to have been a member of the militia or the Guard.

While that distinction may be lost on most civilians, it no doubt has caught the attention of the country's nearly half-million Guardsmen who now wonder what the Bush presidency mean for them.

While presidents don't have the clout over single entities--such as the Guard--they once did, they still wield power in two important ways, says retired Col. Michael Doubler, a former National Guard Bureau historian. First, the president appoints the National Guard Bureau chief. Secondly, the president sets policy and support for the military.

History indicates that presidents who were Guardsmen take an interest in citizen soldiers as commanders in chief, Doubler said.

The list of presidents who served in the militia or National Guard features the four American icons honored at Mount Rushmore: George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt. Other Guard presidents include Ulysses S. Grant, Benjamin Harrison, and Harry S Truman.

The last two presidents to have been citizen soldiers--Roosevelt and Truman--were perhaps the ones who did the most to shape the modern National Guard. Roosevelt's first message to Congress after becoming president in 1901 was to get a 'thorough military education,' not just in the regular military, but also the Guard. By the time he left office, Guard units were receiving better pay, equipment and training.

Truman commanded a Missouri Guard artillery battery in France during World War I. Then Capt. Truman told his troops: "I'd rather be here than president of the United States." He later became president in 1945. The Air National Guard was created under his watch.

"What they learned in the Guard had a great impact on decisions they made as presidents," Doubler said. "They learned qualities of giving and receiving orders and they understood military operations."

Still, the expectation that presidents serve in the military before taking office is a mid-20th century phenomenon that began during the Cold War, when the nation maintained a large standing military, Doubler said.

President Clinton was widely criticized for avoiding the draft during the Vietnam War. Bush also was accused of skirting the draft by joining the Texas Air Guard in 1968. He became an F-102 fighter pilot before being discharged as a first lieutenant in 1973.

Doubler says it is unfair to criticize those who joined the Guard during the Vietnam War.

"The government allowed it and in many ways encouraged it," he said "There were a lot of things the government did to authorize people to serve in places other than the front lines."

Bush's drill performance also stirred controversy during the campaign. Some reports charged that he was absent for a year. However, probably the most comprehensive media review of Bush's military records concluded that while he, "served irregularly after the spring of 1972 and got an expedited discharge, he did accumulate the days of service required for him for his ultimate honorable discharge." The review was done by Georgemag.com, the online version of the magazine founded by the late John F. Kennedy Jr. Guardsmen say Bush's service record is not unusual.

"In any six-year time frame you probably can find some problems," says retired Rep. G.V. 'Sonny' Montgomery, D-Miss., founder of the House Guard and Reserve Caucus. "Just learning to fly the F-102 and not getting hurt and not hurting anybody is an accomplishment."


Montgomery called Bush's election, "nothing but a plus for the Guard."

The retired Mississippi National Guard major general supported Bush so strongly for president that he served as co-chair of the Veterans for Bush campaign, even though he is a Democrat. He said that the Guard will improve under Bush's leadership because he understands the life of Guardsmen and he's proud of his service.

 

[jimnyc]

Whether it comes from Haavaad or a state college really isn't an issue, except to people who are hung up on such things.

You can hold Bush to a level of perfection, but not yourself? Surely you see the difference in a degree from Rhode Island University and a degree from Harvard. Maybe you got into a lesser known school with less requirements. Were you denied at the better schools?

Since YOU are the one hung up on such things, does a degree from Harvard show GPA on it? And do you know why not? Because everyone who has graduated has earned their degree.

Anyone can claim to be a genius on a message board who graduated Summa Cum Laude. Only one person mentioned in this thread has his educational career as a matter of public record. One has reached fame and fortune with his education. One has reached the pinnacle of his career reaching the highest position possible in his field. One was a pilot. One has made millions and millions of dollars in business.

One has been relegated to bragging on an internet message board.

Can you guess who is who?

Face it, Dubbyuh was a toy soldier.

Can you please cite your military career for all of us to see? George Bush has given countless hours in service to his country, and has continued to try and make the USA a better place for all of us with his political career. I'm guessing you have the audacity to knock someone elses contribution to the military while not serving a single second yourself. Before you try lying, be prepared to prove any military record you may claim you have.

Uhh...He left the Texas economy a smoking crater in the ground. It's too early to tell the damage he's doing to the US economy as the mushroom cloud is still swirling up into the stratosphere.

Why was he the only Governor in Texas history to be elected to consecutive 4 year terms?

And ya really gotta get over the straw-man arguments. There's no comparison between Dubbyuh and me... I'm the better human being.

That's nice and all, but we were talking about intelligence. I've seen nothing that would convince me that you are even in the same league as George Bush. You can rarely even formulate a complete sentence/paragraph that is completely coherent, and yet you expect me to believe you graduated from ANY college with honors?

You are the weakest link. Goodbye.

 

[Graeme Kessey]

I thought we liked to cut down our tall poppies Down Under, but after reading the posts on this thread it seems we are amatuers compared to you guys. Is all this coming about because it is an election year?

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Graeme Kessey
Is all this coming about because it is an election year?

Mostly, yes. You'll even see some swear they will move out of the country if Bush is elected. Of course they can't even do that right and remain here in the good 'ol USA so they can continue bitching. It's laughable, but common.

 

[Moi]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit

Point two: My dislike for Howdy stems from a thorough examination of his life and what he has done with it. He has served himself and his corporate johns rather than the public interest, moreso than any politician I have seen to date. Compared to Dubbyuh, the last crapsack the held the Presidency was a choir-boy.

The last I checked, the people who run corporations, trade stocks and otherwise pay taxes ARE the public.

Furthermore, nothing in the constitution or the other laws which set forth the job description of the president say that he is only permitted to act in ways that benefit all non-corporate people to the exclusion of the corporate ones.

Perhaps you should get a refund on your sheepskin.

 

[Graeme Kessey]

Are the people bitching the ones that go out and vote? Or are they bitching for the hell of it and don't bother to vote? Voting in Aussie is compulsory so a lot of people donkey vote if they don't want to vote for the two major parties, at least your voting is up to you, if you want to vote or not. If they don't vote they should'nt bitch.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by jimnyc
One has been relegated to bragging on an internet message board.

Can you guess who is who?


Can you please cite your military career for all of us to see? George Bush has given countless hours in service to his country, and has continued to try and make the USA a better place for all of us with his political career. I'm guessing you have the audacity to knock someone elses contribution to the military while not serving a single second yourself. Before you try lying, be prepared to prove any military record you may claim you have.


Why was he the only Governor in Texas history to be elected to consecutive 4 year terms?

Point one: You asked, I answered.

Point two Since I have no political aspirations, my life is not a matter of public record. But since you asked, I will answer. U.S. Navy 1979 - 1984. Served at Fleet Intelligence Center Europe and Atlantic 1980 - 1982. U.S.S. Ranger CV-61 1982 t0 1984. I f you want proof, go hack the DOD database.

Point three: Do you really <i><b>understand</b></i> Texas politics? I suggest curling up some weekend with all of Molly Ivins books on the subject. Also check out the Texas Observer web sites. They explain far better than I ever could how Dubbyuh was elected.

"You are the weakest link. Goodbye."

Ow!...Ooh!...The pain is more than I can bear!

 

[jimnyc]

Point one: You asked, I answered.

And it proved my point, thank you.

Point two Since I have no political aspirations, my life is not a matter of public record. But since you asked, I will answer. U.S. Navy 1979 - 1984. Served at Fleet Intelligence Center Europe and Atlantic 1980 - 1982. U.S.S. Ranger CV-61 1982 t0 1984.

Sure, and I'm going to be on the next trip to the moon.

Where's the proof I asked for? I can claim to be a retired Colonel if I wanted to. And for all I know you were the janitor at these places. This shows nothing of your intelligence. The only way we can gauge intelligence on this board is by a users own words, and you certainly haven't impressed me. We can gauge Bush's intelligence over years upon years of business and politics.

Point three: Do you really understand Texas politics? I suggest curling up some weekend with all of Molly Ivins books on the subject. Also check out the Texas Observer web sites. They explain far better than I ever could how Dubbyuh was elected.

What I understand is that your opinion is apparently in the minority. You failed to answer my question as well, why was he then the only Governor to be elected to consecutive 4 year terms if he was so bad?

Ow!...Ooh!...The pain is more than I can bear!

I didn't expect pain. I already assumed you were used to being dismissed.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by Graeme Kessey
Are the people bitching the ones that go out and vote? Or are they bitching for the hell of it and don't bother to vote? Voting in Aussie is compulsory so a lot of people donkey vote if they don't want to vote for the two major parties, at least your voting is up to you, if you want to vote or not. If they don't vote they should'nt bitch.

Truth be told, I think most are bitching just to be bitching and have never seen the inside of the voting booth.

Unfortunately, voting is not compulsory here. The freedom to vote, comes with the attendant resposibility to vote. However, Most folks here can't be troubled to vote. Of course, some of the problem is inherent in the system. You have one day to vote, in the middle of the week, by the time you get off work the polling places may be closed, transportation may be unavailable, the kids need picked up from soccer practice...you get my drift. Another significant factor is an apathetic and ill-informed electorate. I know a nation gets the government it deserves, but fer chrissakes, did we really deserve Dubbyuh and his dog-and-pony show?

If the Republicrats and the Demopublicans were truly interested in election reform, they would change the system to allow for multi-day voting with at least one day on the weekend. Instead, we get election reform which places unverifiable, easily hackable, electronic voting systems in every precinct in the country. One company, Diebold, has a CEO that went so far as to say to Ohio's Secretary of State that he "...Would work to see that George Bush recieves Ohio's electoral votes in 2004."

Anyways, it's good to see an outside perspective. I have fond memories of Perth.