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When was the last time our President was flown to Europe for treatment he couldn't get here?Every other industrialized nation in the world has national health insurance, and they pay HALF per capita what we pay for healthcare. Why? Because the healthcare lobbyists gave $3.4 BILLION DOLLARS to members of Congress in the last decade.
When was the last time our President was flown to Europe for treatment he couldn't get here?Every other industrialized nation in the world has national health insurance, and they pay HALF per capita what we pay for healthcare. Why? Because the healthcare lobbyists gave $3.4 BILLION DOLLARS to members of Congress in the last decade.
Rehashed one-liners aside, if you want National Healthcare so badly, perhaps we could just contract the French government to setup and run our system? Frankly, I trust the French bureaucrats far more than the incompetent assholes that pass for legislatures in this country...
When was the last time our President was flown to Europe for treatment he couldn't get here?Every other industrialized nation in the world has national health insurance, and they pay HALF per capita what we pay for healthcare. Why? Because the healthcare lobbyists gave $3.4 BILLION DOLLARS to members of Congress in the last decade.
One could argue that the ability to shop around for the best price would bring down the cost of insurance.
Take auto insurance as an example. if I have under X dollars of claims against my collision coverage I can avoid a surcharge or at least only get assessed a lesser surcharge.
If I need a fender repaired I am free to find a guy who will do it for the lowest price thereby keeping my premiums lower. We didn't have to abolish car insurance to do it.
Similarly, if my health insurance policy worked so that I was free to find the best deal on a CAT scan then my insurer would have less to pay out and premiums would go down.
there is no need to abolish insurance to implement this simple strategy.
right now your insurance company is doing the negotiating....if the hospital charges a thousand for the cat-scan, negotiated with the insurance company to only charge $600 for it.....
this hasn't brought the costs of healthcare to where it is affordable...even though they are getting 40% off of the catscan.... prices are still too high.
insurance companies do negotiate for the BEST PRICE already, only upfront....and prices are still through the roof....?
How can we know we are getting the best price when we are out of the loop?
And really, do you think the hospital would make a deal where they didn't get the maximum profit.
i guarantee you if the price of services was known, competition would spur a price war.
You would see things like CAT Scans R Us where you could get a doctor's order and walk in to get scanned at a cut rate price.
shit my Vet has an X ray in his clinic and the quality of the film is just as good as the one's you can get at a big people hospital. My vet charges less than 100 bucks for the same service the human doctor charges twice or three times as much for.
Why? because I can call the other 5 vets within 30 miles of me and ask what they charge for an x ray. I guarantee that we could get better prices than the insurance companies do.
The problem here is third party payment not the health care system in general.
Why is it that we know the costs of everything we purchse except for medical services and products?
Think about it. We have effectively insulated the medical industry from market forces. Is it any wonder that prices keep rising?
Don't you think that if we had the option to look around for a deal on a CAT scan or a blood test etc that we would choose the clinic that provided that service for the least cost?
yes, it is insulated from market forces...and insurance companies insulate....they should be wiped out.... all gvt tax write-offs for businesses and individuals for health insurance should be wiped out, Medicare for seniors wiped out, and emergency room care paid by our gvt wiped out, and all research and development gvt grants wiped out, and all rules closing the purchase of drugs worldwide be wiped out...
ONLY THEN could we truly have a situation where market forces to keep prices lower would work...
we are so far gone in subsidies, even without this health care insurance bill....there is no way that all those things above will stop being funded by our gvt....not imo.... so, if they will not cut all those programs mentioned then what's next? can anything else other than price caps on fees/hospital/doctor charges work?
No. I practically live in a Medical School, and can tell you the costs aren't the problem.They also have many more doctors per capita. Why? Because their medical schools are free. That means more doctors and lower medical costs.
No. I practically live in a Medical School, and can tell you the costs aren't the problem.They also have many more doctors per capita. Why? Because their medical schools are free. That means more doctors and lower medical costs.
The American Medical Association is.
We have thousands of bright young people desperate to become doctors, but they cannot, because of arbitrarily high and completely irrelevent standards the AMA maintains to create an artificial scarcity. You wouldn't understand unless you saw the process up-close and personal.
As Obama's bill does not dismantle the American Medical Association, but rather placates them (the AMA supports the bill), American medical costs will remain sky-high. Don't even get me started on the proposed prescription drug reform...more like handout to the pharmaceutical companies.
The public option is not a silver-bullet, but rather, just that, an expensive option that does nothing to solve the underlying flaws in our system. Pouring more and more money into our current system solves nothing, yet this is all Obama proposes to do...
No. I practically live in a Medical School, and can tell you the costs aren't the problem.They also have many more doctors per capita. Why? Because their medical schools are free. That means more doctors and lower medical costs.
The American Medical Association is.
We have thousands of bright young people desperate to become doctors, but they cannot, because of arbitrarily high and completely irrelevent standards the AMA maintains to create an artificial scarcity. You wouldn't understand unless you saw the process up-close and personal.
As Obama's bill does not dismantle the American Medical Association, but rather placates them (the AMA supports the bill), American medical costs will remain sky-high. Don't even get me started on the proposed prescription drug reform...more like handout to the pharmaceutical companies.
The public option is not a silver-bullet, but rather, just that, an expensive option that does nothing to solve the underlying flaws in our system. Pouring more and more money into our current system solves nothing, yet this is all Obama proposes to do...
More demand, with continued AMA-restricted supply, means even higher wages for currente AMA doctors.Health insurance coverage for all Americans
Forcing insurance agencies to pay for more treatments means higher demand, and higher doctor salaries.Insurance market reforms that expand choice of affordable coverage and eliminate denials for pre-existing conditions
All the fun of a government-sponsored monopoly, but none of the regulation! Have your cake, and eat it too!Assurance that health care decisions will remain in the hands of patients and their physicians, not insurance companies or government officials
We need MORE free money from the government to do our jobs. We just can't do our jobs making only $300k a year...Investments and incentives for quality improvement, prevention and wellness initiatives
Medicare doesn't pay doctors enough...this must be changed. Medicare should pay full price, like everyone else! Didn't I mention we don't get paid enough?Repeal of the Medicare physician payment formula that would trigger steep cuts and threaten seniors' access to care
Dammit, how are we supposed to afford malpractice insurance when we make only $300k a year? We need to make it so nobody can sue us!Implementation of medical liability reforms to reduce the cost of defensive medicine
Paying secretaries to fill out paperwork all day takes a big chunk out of our salaries, you know. In fact, if the government could make insurance paperwork illegal, so that we automatically get paid whatever we want to charge, that'd be great!Streamlining and standardizing of insurance claims processing requirements to eliminate unnecessary costs and administrative burdens
The problem here is third party payment not the health care system in general.
Why is it that we know the costs of everything we purchse except for medical services and products?
Think about it. We have effectively insulated the medical industry from market forces. Is it any wonder that prices keep rising?
Don't you think that if we had the option to look around for a deal on a CAT scan or a blood test etc that we would choose the clinic that provided that service for the least cost?
yes, it is insulated from market forces...and insurance companies insulate....they should be wiped out.... all gvt tax write-offs for businesses and individuals for health insurance should be wiped out, Medicare for seniors wiped out, and emergency room care paid by our gvt wiped out, and all research and development gvt grants wiped out, and all rules closing the purchase of drugs worldwide be wiped out...
ONLY THEN could we truly have a situation where market forces to keep prices lower would work...
we are so far gone in subsidies, even without this health care insurance bill....there is no way that all those things above will stop being funded by our gvt....not imo.... so, if they will not cut all those programs mentioned then what's next? can anything else other than price caps on fees/hospital/doctor charges work?
Darn and here I thought you were learning something.
Yes, the issue is 3rd party payers. When it is someone else's money you dont spend it as wisely.
The solution has to start with empowering individuals to shop for their healthcare like anything else. There will be and should be insurance for things most people cannot afford to pay for themselves. But I suspect most expenditures in medicine are not of that type but more the "my kid has an ear ache" type.
I dont understand your question/objection. Most medical expenditures probably occur as routine things. So controlling those costs through shopping/competition will save money overall. The expensive treatments will be negotiated by insurance.
I dont understand your question/objection. Most medical expenditures probably occur as routine things. So controlling those costs through shopping/competition will save money overall. The expensive treatments will be negotiated by insurance.
i don't believe the most expenditures are routine costs....it is just the opposite....the most expensive part of health care are hospitalization and prescription drug costs.
I'm not certain that we could negotiate any better deal than the insurance companies do, which is about half the cost of the doctor's visit than without the insurance....at least it APPEARS to be...
everything is so messed up, it's hard to be sure.... the reason i say this is because hospitals/doctors could be inflating the ''normal, non-negotiated prices'' in order for them to say they are taking 'a loss' on their income taxes when they are forced to pay gvt medicare prices negotiated.
but back to medical costs, i think that if we did handle our own routine check ups and had hospitalization/catastrophic insurance only, it would not lower prices enough for the most costly part of health insurance, which is hospitalization....
and group plans at work places are already changing....at my hubby's work, they offered for next year, only one insurance choice, aetna i believe, and it is a plan where basic physicals and tests are paid 100%, but any other procedure or doctor's visit is paid only 80% and you pay the rest.... like if you are sick with the flu or appendicitis or tonsillitis, have diabitis etc. then you pay the 20% plus the doc visit co pay fee of $35... and drug copay $35, and until matt and i spend $5 grand in the year out of our own pocket in network, $10 grand out of network within the year, before the insurance does come back in to pay 100% of it....AND the price of the insurance is the same as ly's while last years with his company was $2500 out of pocket for the 2 and only $25 bucks an office visit and $25 for drug copay.....
they 'believe' this type of plan will DISCOURAGE people to go to the doctor....
it be one thing if there was any SAVINGS from their plan this year, so that could be used towards the 100% higher deductibles, but it is the same price as the better coverage plan they had last year?
I dont understand your question/objection. Most medical expenditures probably occur as routine things. So controlling those costs through shopping/competition will save money overall. The expensive treatments will be negotiated by insurance.
i don't believe the most expenditures are routine costs....it is just the opposite....the most expensive part of health care are hospitalization and prescription drug costs.
I'm not certain that we could negotiate any better deal than the insurance companies do, which is about half the cost of the doctor's visit than without the insurance....at least it APPEARS to be...
everything is so messed up, it's hard to be sure.... the reason i say this is because hospitals/doctors could be inflating the ''normal, non-negotiated prices'' in order for them to say they are taking 'a loss' on their income taxes when they are forced to pay gvt medicare prices negotiated.
but back to medical costs, i think that if we did handle our own routine check ups and had hospitalization/catastrophic insurance only, it would not lower prices enough for the most costly part of health insurance, which is hospitalization....
and group plans at work places are already changing....at my hubby's work, they offered for next year, only one insurance choice, aetna i believe, and it is a plan where basic physicals and tests are paid 100%, but any other procedure or doctor's visit is paid only 80% and you pay the rest.... like if you are sick with the flu or appendicitis or tonsillitis, have diabitis etc. then you pay the 20% plus the doc visit co pay fee of $35... and drug copay $35, and until matt and i spend $5 grand in the year out of our own pocket in network, $10 grand out of network within the year, before the insurance does come back in to pay 100% of it....AND the price of the insurance is the same as ly's while last years with his company was $2500 out of pocket for the 2 and only $25 bucks an office visit and $25 for drug copay.....
they 'believe' this type of plan will DISCOURAGE people to go to the doctor....
it be one thing if there was any SAVINGS from their plan this year, so that could be used towards the 100% higher deductibles, but it is the same price as the better coverage plan they had last year?
HArd for me to get data right off. But look here:
http://www.cms.hhs.gov/NationalHealthExpendData/downloads/highlights.pdf
Of all spending only about 32% was due to hospitals. So there is a lot of routine health care spending out there.
i don't believe the most expenditures are routine costs....it is just the opposite....the most expensive part of health care are hospitalization and prescription drug costs.
I'm not certain that we could negotiate any better deal than the insurance companies do, which is about half the cost of the doctor's visit than without the insurance....at least it APPEARS to be...
everything is so messed up, it's hard to be sure.... the reason i say this is because hospitals/doctors could be inflating the ''normal, non-negotiated prices'' in order for them to say they are taking 'a loss' on their income taxes when they are forced to pay gvt medicare prices negotiated.
but back to medical costs, i think that if we did handle our own routine check ups and had hospitalization/catastrophic insurance only, it would not lower prices enough for the most costly part of health insurance, which is hospitalization....
and group plans at work places are already changing....at my hubby's work, they offered for next year, only one insurance choice, aetna i believe, and it is a plan where basic physicals and tests are paid 100%, but any other procedure or doctor's visit is paid only 80% and you pay the rest.... like if you are sick with the flu or appendicitis or tonsillitis, have diabitis etc. then you pay the 20% plus the doc visit co pay fee of $35... and drug copay $35, and until matt and i spend $5 grand in the year out of our own pocket in network, $10 grand out of network within the year, before the insurance does come back in to pay 100% of it....AND the price of the insurance is the same as ly's while last years with his company was $2500 out of pocket for the 2 and only $25 bucks an office visit and $25 for drug copay.....
they 'believe' this type of plan will DISCOURAGE people to go to the doctor....
it be one thing if there was any SAVINGS from their plan this year, so that could be used towards the 100% higher deductibles, but it is the same price as the better coverage plan they had last year?
HArd for me to get data right off. But look here:
http://www.cms.hhs.gov/NationalHealthExpendData/downloads/highlights.pdf
Of all spending only about 32% was due to hospitals. So there is a lot of routine health care spending out there.
Interesing link/report. Thank you Rabb. so, a good chunk is in preventative medicine, and minor sickness and savings could be had if we let the market work....how long do you think it would take for the market forces to lower prices? 3 years? 5 years? 10 years? it does take competition to work down the prices and 'supply' as well...
and if it is going to work, (which it should), WHY would we leave out an area that is more than 50% of these costs off the table to reform or the chopping block? the catastrophic or hospitaliazation insurance plans?
HArd for me to get data right off. But look here:
http://www.cms.hhs.gov/NationalHealthExpendData/downloads/highlights.pdf
Of all spending only about 32% was due to hospitals. So there is a lot of routine health care spending out there.
Interesing link/report. Thank you Rabb. so, a good chunk is in preventative medicine, and minor sickness and savings could be had if we let the market work....how long do you think it would take for the market forces to lower prices? 3 years? 5 years? 10 years? it does take competition to work down the prices and 'supply' as well...
and if it is going to work, (which it should), WHY would we leave out an area that is more than 50% of these costs off the table to reform or the chopping block? the catastrophic or hospitaliazation insurance plans?
Well, when AT&T was broken up how long did it take for rates to drop? I think it was within 6 months.
I don't understand your second paragraph as it isn't English.
I dont understand that.
Health insurance is there to pay for things that you cannot afford to pay for. Catastrophic insurance would seem to be one of those things. Maybe the main one.
