Cheney May Still Get His

[Tech_Esq]

To Republicans, Bush/Cheney are Demagods. They could do no wrong.

To liberals, they were leaders who should have been tried and imprisoned for at least a half dozen things, like election fraud, torture and lying us into a war for $.

What do you think the rest of the world thinks?

The Arab countries?

Europe/Canada/Australia?

South America?

“The devil came here yesterday,” Chavez said, referring to Bush’s address on Tuesday and making the sign of the cross. “He came here talking as if he were the owner of the world.”

Standing at the podium, Chavez quipped that a day after Bush’s appearance: “In this very spot it smells like sulfur still.”

Chavez held up a book by American leftist writer Noam Chomsky “Hegemony or Survival: America’s Quest for Global Dominance” and recommended it to everyone in the General Assembly.The leftist leader, who has joined Iran and Cuba in opposing U.S. influence, accused Washington of “domination, exploitation and pillage of peoples of the world.”

“We appeal to the people of the United States and the world to halt this threat, which is like a sword hanging over our head,” he said.

Chavez drew tentative giggles at times from the audience, but also some applause when he called Bush the devil.


Tough to prove but: CNN.com - U.S.*dismisses call for Chavez's killing - Aug 23, 2005

And you stood and cheered him on too didn't you? You America hating Marxist.

I did laugh my ass off. And, I thought it was good to hear the other side of the story for a change, especially after we found out Bush lied us into Iraq. FYI, the same people that lied us into Iraq are the same people that would call me a marxist. Who gives a fuck what you guys think anymore.

After finding out Bush lied, I felt kind of bad about boycotting Canada and France when they didn't support our invasion of Iraq. After all, Saddam had something to do with 9-11, right?

So yes, it was nice that Bush's sensorship of the media was exposed. He was making us look very bad with the rest of the world, and we didn't even know it.

Doesn't that make us less safe overseaas? If foreigners see us as lying arrogant hypocritical bullies who torture, isn't that a bad thing?

Actually, it makes us more safe. Bet you can't figure out why.

 

[sealybobo]

Oh boy. Sometimes I have to wonder why I even bother. The reason we didn't drop the bomb on Germany is that they had already surrendered a few months prior. Why would we bomb an enemy that had already surrendered?

I heard that so did Japan, but we were going to test that bomb on them regardless and it was a lot easier to drop a bomb like that on "gooks".

McCain refers to all asians as gooks. He doesn't care if they are japanese, chinese, korea, vietnamese. He feels that being tortured by asians gives him the right to call all of them gooks. He's still very very angry about it to this day. So imagine how many Quantanimo detainees who are innocent are going to feel when they are set free? Republicans did not make us safer.

So don't demonize amadenijad & chavez when you have Bush/McCain on your team. Funny, you guys always want to suggest all politicians are evil unti we start talking about the most evil leaders in your party. Angry elitists. McCain doesn't even know how many homes he has. Bush became President without doing anything prior. Less experience than Palin.

The REAL John McCain

And you guys want to suggest liberals are ruining this country? OMG!

Republicans and Corporations and Right Wing Judges are ruining America!

Not trial lawyers. Supreme Court Cuts $2.5 Billion Exxon Valdez Settlement to $500 Million

Supreme Court Cuts $2.5 Billion Exxon Valdez Settlement to $500 Million | TakePart Social Action Network™

The fact is that there were calls from some Japanese to surrender. However, that idea was not at all unanimous, nor was it likely to happen. Remember that the Japanese still didn't surrender immediately after the first bomb was dropped on Hiroshima.

Truman understood that our troops were tired. They had enough and it was time for them to come home. And after seeing what it took to take Okinawa, Truman didn't want to face the same in finally putting an end to it all. Had the Japanese truly wanted to surrender, they could have done so before Hiroshima, and then before Nagisaki.

You just gave me the official American version of how it went down.

How do you know those are the facts? Because you read them in an American history book written by Americans? Who were told the official story from our government?

Ever heard of revisionist history?

Can you tell me one time in American history where the history books got it wrong? I bet if you read about the Viet Nam story in a Vietnamese history book, it'll read a lot different than how ours read.

Do you really suggest that American history books have everything 100% unbias & accurate?

You don't think American history books are slanted in any way?

You think our history books on WW2 are exactly the same story as the Germans or Russians or Italians tell?

 

[Tech_Esq]

Victors write history books. They are from the point of view of the victorious.

If you read history from the point of view of the vanquished, of course it will look different.

Our history of foreign exploits should be viewed from the American point of view by Americans. The non-existent neutral "citizen of the world" viewpoint is a bunch poppycock. You need to chose sides and I would recommend being on the side of the country where you sleep at night.

 

[WillowTree]

Victors write history books. They are from the point of view of the victorious.

If you read history from the point of view of the vanquished, of course it will look different.

Our history of foreign exploits should be viewed from the American point of view by Americans. The non-existent neutral "citizen of the world" viewpoint is a bunch poppycock. You need to chose sides and I would recommend being on the side of the country where you sleep at night.

Even DUmb dogs don't shit in their own nests.. but bobo is cut from a different peice of cloth.

 

[sealybobo]

And you stood and cheered him on too didn't you? You America hating Marxist.

I did laugh my ass off. And, I thought it was good to hear the other side of the story for a change, especially after we found out Bush lied us into Iraq. FYI, the same people that lied us into Iraq are the same people that would call me a marxist. Who gives a fuck what you guys think anymore.

After finding out Bush lied, I felt kind of bad about boycotting Canada and France when they didn't support our invasion of Iraq. After all, Saddam had something to do with 9-11, right?

So yes, it was nice that Bush's sensorship of the media was exposed. He was making us look very bad with the rest of the world, and we didn't even know it.

Doesn't that make us less safe overseaas? If foreigners see us as lying arrogant hypocritical bullies who torture, isn't that a bad thing?

Actually, it makes us more safe. Bet you can't figure out why.

Why? Do you think terrorists are scared that we are crazy?

What about being spread so thin now we can't do anything about real threats like Iran and N. Korea?

Luckily for us the rest of the world doesn't hate our leader anymore. NKOTB.

Terrorists bombed the World Trade Center in 92 and then waited until 2001 to do it again.

Do you really feel safe from another attack? Really? I don't believe it. I look at our borders and feel like we are vulnerable still. Seems to me Bush wasted/stole a lot of the money he was given to make us safer. He gave a lot to red states that aren't at risk as much as some blue border states instead of giving the money to the states most at risk.

And I hear our airplanes and ports are still vulnerable.

And the same people that attacked us are now in Pakistan, still plotting.

So now we tap more phones and a million people are on the watch list, so now it is deluted. I never minded tapping phones as long as Bush told FISA, but he refused. Now Obama hopefully is telling FISA. Or fuck it. I hope Obama is spying on his political opponents. Since you didn't care Bush was breaking this law, don't cry now.

 

[sealybobo]

Victors write history books. They are from the point of view of the victorious.

If you read history from the point of view of the vanquished, of course it will look different.

Our history of foreign exploits should be viewed from the American point of view by Americans. The non-existent neutral "citizen of the world" viewpoint is a bunch poppycock. You need to chose sides and I would recommend being on the side of the country where you sleep at night.

So do you think historians will leave out that we lied our way into Iraq? Will it say we did it for oil or because of WMD's?

Will the story tell about how much money we pissed away over there? Will it talk about how we made Iran's enemy an ally?

Will history say the surge worked or will it tell the truth that we paid Mook Tada El Sadr and all the other "terrorists" to stop shooting at us?

Will it paint Blackwater in a positive light?

And I guess I need to compare Canada's version of the facts before I go arguing with my friends in Windsor?

Should I be an ignorant arrogant American when I argue with them? Should I tell them they are stupid when the reality is that my facts are flawed?

So you don't mind if you are lied to. Just shut up and swallow it. I get it. Because you never leave America, you don't care about American's going abroad?

 

[Tech_Esq]

I did laugh my ass off. And, I thought it was good to hear the other side of the story for a change, especially after we found out Bush lied us into Iraq. FYI, the same people that lied us into Iraq are the same people that would call me a marxist. Who gives a fuck what you guys think anymore.

After finding out Bush lied, I felt kind of bad about boycotting Canada and France when they didn't support our invasion of Iraq. After all, Saddam had something to do with 9-11, right?

So yes, it was nice that Bush's sensorship of the media was exposed. He was making us look very bad with the rest of the world, and we didn't even know it.

Doesn't that make us less safe overseaas? If foreigners see us as lying arrogant hypocritical bullies who torture, isn't that a bad thing?

Actually, it makes us more safe. Bet you can't figure out why.

Why? Do you think terrorists are scared that we are crazy?

What about being spread so thin now we can't do anything about real threats like Iran and N. Korea?

Luckily for us the rest of the world doesn't hate our leader anymore. NKOTB.

Terrorists bombed the World Trade Center in 92 and then waited until 2001 to do it again.

Do you really feel safe from another attack? Really? I don't believe it. I look at our borders and feel like we are vulnerable still. Seems to me Bush wasted/stole a lot of the money he was given to make us safer. He gave a lot to red states that aren't at risk as much as some blue border states instead of giving the money to the states most at risk.

And I hear our airplanes and ports are still vulnerable.

And the same people that attacked us are now in Pakistan, still plotting.

So now we tap more phones and a million people are on the watch list, so now it is deluted. I never minded tapping phones as long as Bush told FISA, but he refused. Now Obama hopefully is telling FISA. Or fuck it. I hope Obama is spying on his political opponents. Since you didn't care Bush was breaking this law, don't cry now.

Okay....that was just a nutty rant.

What you will live to see, is that the left will weaken our military in real and tangible ways. Then they will weaken our will to actually do anything militarily. Our opponents throughout the world will see this and begin their relentless picking. Usually, this takes the form of blowing up our embassies and other American interests around the world.

We'll be sure to send our best FBI men out looking for the bad guys, not that we'll ever catch them. I'm not asking you to believe me, I'm just saying, keep your eyes open the next couple of years and remember this post when they start happening.

The proper way to do it (just so I'm not accused having no solution) is to build the military, speak with a quiet forcefulness on the world stage and don't use the military keep them chained up and snarling. If there is no choice but to use them, come in so big and so thunderous as to frighten generations yet to be born in the country under attack. Then get the fuck out. That's how you keep other countries from fucking with you. They will hate the leader that does that though and I say.....good!

 

[sealybobo]

Actually, it makes us more safe. Bet you can't figure out why.

Why? Do you think terrorists are scared that we are crazy?

What about being spread so thin now we can't do anything about real threats like Iran and N. Korea?

Luckily for us the rest of the world doesn't hate our leader anymore. NKOTB.

Terrorists bombed the World Trade Center in 92 and then waited until 2001 to do it again.

Do you really feel safe from another attack? Really? I don't believe it. I look at our borders and feel like we are vulnerable still. Seems to me Bush wasted/stole a lot of the money he was given to make us safer. He gave a lot to red states that aren't at risk as much as some blue border states instead of giving the money to the states most at risk.

And I hear our airplanes and ports are still vulnerable.

And the same people that attacked us are now in Pakistan, still plotting.

So now we tap more phones and a million people are on the watch list, so now it is deluted. I never minded tapping phones as long as Bush told FISA, but he refused. Now Obama hopefully is telling FISA. Or fuck it. I hope Obama is spying on his political opponents. Since you didn't care Bush was breaking this law, don't cry now.

What you will live to see, is that the left will weaken our military in real and tangible ways. Then they will weaken our will to actually do anything militarily. Our opponents throughout the world will see this and begin their relentless picking. Usually, this takes the form of blowing up our embassies and other American interests around the world.

We'll be sure to send our best FBI men out looking for the bad guys, not that we'll ever catch them. I'm not asking you to believe me, I'm just saying, keep your eyes open the next couple of years and remember this post when they start happening.

The proper way to do it (just so I'm not accused having no solution) is to build the military, speak with a quiet forcefulness on the world stage and don't use the military keep them chained up and snarling. If there is no choice but to use them, come in so big and so thunderous as to frighten generations yet to be born in the country under attack. Then get the fuck out. That's how you keep other countries from fucking with you. They will hate the leader that does that though and I say.....good!

Where do I begin.

1. Obama will cut out the bullshit in our military spending. Since we spend more than every country in the world combined, that will be easy.

2. Don't call yourself a fiscal conservative if you approve of the GOP spending more on defense than every other country combined. And certainly don't ask for a tax break.

3. We are spread so thin because of Iraq that it has emboldened countries like Iraq and N. Korea. Fact.

4. Won't catch our enemies? Seems like the GOP gave up the fight against Al Queda and the search for Bin Ladin.

5. You must not realize what Iraq was all about. $.

6. Bush broke the military. On purpose too because he wanted to privatize war too. War for profit. Obama will rebuild the military, fire Blackwater and save money doing so. You'll say he's being weak militarily, but to you, if we aren't wasting billions on the militiary, then we aren't spending enough.

7. We were spending too much on defense. How much is enough? I don't know. But Bush spent too much. When you go to war for profit, you never want that war to end. That's why Iraq took so long. You think Bush made a mistake? Even though they knew what would happen? You are a fool. Maybe I'm not being clear. Cheney said in the 90's exactly what happened in Iraq, would happen. Ten yrs later he said they didn't expect it to happen.

Oh I forgot, I should not question my leaders. It is unAmerican.

8. Terrorists don't have a home country. Who you gonna bomb the next time 18 Saudi's fly planes into our buildings? Invade Iran you say?

I get worked up and the realize, you idiots aren't in power anymore. And then I exhale.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Victors write history books. They are from the point of view of the victorious.

If you read history from the point of view of the vanquished, of course it will look different.

Our history of foreign exploits should be viewed from the American point of view by Americans. The non-existent neutral "citizen of the world" viewpoint is a bunch poppycock. You need to chose sides and I would recommend being on the side of the country where you sleep at night.

So do you think historians will leave out that we lied our way into Iraq? Will it say we did it for oil or because of WMD's?

Will the story tell about how much money we pissed away over there? Will it talk about how we made Iran's enemy an ally?

Will history say the surge worked or will it tell the truth that we paid Mook Tada El Sadr and all the other "terrorists" to stop shooting at us?

Will it paint Blackwater in a positive light?

And I guess I need to compare Canada's version of the facts before I go arguing with my friends in Windsor?

Should I be an ignorant arrogant American when I argue with them? Should I tell them they are stupid when the reality is that my facts are flawed?

So you don't mind if you are lied to. Just shut up and swallow it. I get it. Because you never leave America, you don't care about American's going abroad?

Given who writes the history books here, I would expect a version very much like what you described.

However, I would imagine that when the history of the Iraq war is written in 50 years, it will be written in the context of whatever the relationship with Iraq has become for the US. Are they still a democracy? Did they become a client state of a resurgent Iran? If it turns out to have been a good deal for the US, then I think history will ratify the decision to go to war.

I'm sure when the facts come out about the decision making and who knew what and what did they know we'll find out that the real reason was not WMD. (For the record, I never bought what the Administration was selling on the WMD front. It didn't pass the sniff test. I did think they had at least chemical weapons though. I thought that was a slam dunk. But, I did not think they were any kind of an immediate threat to the US).

My thought is that we needed to either end the sanctions on Iraq (under pressure from our allies) or find a reason to go back to war with them. Saddam was acting guilty as hell, everyone thought he was guilty as hell, so they said WMDs. For my money, we did it because Iraq was strategically the right country to fight the war against the Islamo-fascists in. We had been in the country before, the logistics were good, we had direct access from the sea, the country itself was weakened by sanctions, we would drive a wedge between Iran and Syria, complicating their logistics for supplying Iranian proxies, it put more pressure on Iran and finally, it might just turn out to be a democracy. I wouldn't count on it, but in 50 years we'll know.

Nobody will care about Blackwater or any of that sideshow minutia.

It is a mistake to paint it like "good guys" and "bad guys." The US is not made up of a bunch of angels. What we do is not always "objectively right" and that should not be the expectation. It is enough that we get done what is in our country's interests. If we can manage that, then that's about all the expectation we have a right to. You want to have a chat with your Canadian friends, fine. Tell them it was in our interests to go to Iraq and put a big hole in the middle of the middle east. Yes, we created a lot more terrorists and then killed them. Tell them Iraq is a much better place to fight than Afghanistan. Tell them the bigger we make our footprint there the less likely we will have success.

I lived overseas for 3 years, how bout you bobo?

 

[WillowTree]

Why? Do you think terrorists are scared that we are crazy?

What about being spread so thin now we can't do anything about real threats like Iran and N. Korea?

Luckily for us the rest of the world doesn't hate our leader anymore. NKOTB.

Terrorists bombed the World Trade Center in 92 and then waited until 2001 to do it again.

Do you really feel safe from another attack? Really? I don't believe it. I look at our borders and feel like we are vulnerable still. Seems to me Bush wasted/stole a lot of the money he was given to make us safer. He gave a lot to red states that aren't at risk as much as some blue border states instead of giving the money to the states most at risk.

And I hear our airplanes and ports are still vulnerable.

And the same people that attacked us are now in Pakistan, still plotting.

So now we tap more phones and a million people are on the watch list, so now it is deluted. I never minded tapping phones as long as Bush told FISA, but he refused. Now Obama hopefully is telling FISA. Or fuck it. I hope Obama is spying on his political opponents. Since you didn't care Bush was breaking this law, don't cry now.

What you will live to see, is that the left will weaken our military in real and tangible ways. Then they will weaken our will to actually do anything militarily. Our opponents throughout the world will see this and begin their relentless picking. Usually, this takes the form of blowing up our embassies and other American interests around the world.

We'll be sure to send our best FBI men out looking for the bad guys, not that we'll ever catch them. I'm not asking you to believe me, I'm just saying, keep your eyes open the next couple of years and remember this post when they start happening.

The proper way to do it (just so I'm not accused having no solution) is to build the military, speak with a quiet forcefulness on the world stage and don't use the military keep them chained up and snarling. If there is no choice but to use them, come in so big and so thunderous as to frighten generations yet to be born in the country under attack. Then get the fuck out. That's how you keep other countries from fucking with you. They will hate the leader that does that though and I say.....good!

Where do I begin.

1. Obama will cut out the bullshit in our military spending. Since we spend more than every country in the world combined, that will be easy.

2. Don't call yourself a fiscal conservative if you approve of the GOP spending more on defense than every other country combined. And certainly don't ask for a tax break.

3. We are spread so thin because of Iraq that it has emboldened countries like Iraq and N. Korea. Fact.

4. Won't catch our enemies? Seems like the GOP gave up the fight against Al Queda and the search for Bin Ladin.

5. You must not realize what Iraq was all about. $.

6. Bush broke the military. On purpose too because he wanted to privatize war too. War for profit. Obama will rebuild the military, fire Blackwater and save money doing so. You'll say he's being weak militarily, but to you, if we aren't wasting billions on the militiary, then we aren't spending enough.

7. We were spending too much on defense. How much is enough? I don't know. But Bush spent too much. When you go to war for profit, you never want that war to end. That's why Iraq took so long. You think Bush made a mistake? Even though they knew what would happen? You are a fool. Maybe I'm not being clear. Cheney said in the 90's exactly what happened in Iraq, would happen. Ten yrs later he said they didn't expect it to happen.

Oh I forgot, I should not question my leaders. It is unAmerican.

8. Terrorists don't have a home country. Who you gonna bomb the next time 18 Saudi's fly planes into our buildings? Invade Iran you say?

I get worked up and the realize, you idiots aren't in power anymore. And then I exhale.

You are unAmerican and just cause you play the victim won't change that.. go kiss some Chavez azz again.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Why? Do you think terrorists are scared that we are crazy?

What about being spread so thin now we can't do anything about real threats like Iran and N. Korea?

Luckily for us the rest of the world doesn't hate our leader anymore. NKOTB.

Terrorists bombed the World Trade Center in 92 and then waited until 2001 to do it again.

Do you really feel safe from another attack? Really? I don't believe it. I look at our borders and feel like we are vulnerable still. Seems to me Bush wasted/stole a lot of the money he was given to make us safer. He gave a lot to red states that aren't at risk as much as some blue border states instead of giving the money to the states most at risk.

And I hear our airplanes and ports are still vulnerable.

And the same people that attacked us are now in Pakistan, still plotting.

So now we tap more phones and a million people are on the watch list, so now it is deluted. I never minded tapping phones as long as Bush told FISA, but he refused. Now Obama hopefully is telling FISA. Or fuck it. I hope Obama is spying on his political opponents. Since you didn't care Bush was breaking this law, don't cry now.

What you will live to see, is that the left will weaken our military in real and tangible ways. Then they will weaken our will to actually do anything militarily. Our opponents throughout the world will see this and begin their relentless picking. Usually, this takes the form of blowing up our embassies and other American interests around the world.

We'll be sure to send our best FBI men out looking for the bad guys, not that we'll ever catch them. I'm not asking you to believe me, I'm just saying, keep your eyes open the next couple of years and remember this post when they start happening.

The proper way to do it (just so I'm not accused having no solution) is to build the military, speak with a quiet forcefulness on the world stage and don't use the military keep them chained up and snarling. If there is no choice but to use them, come in so big and so thunderous as to frighten generations yet to be born in the country under attack. Then get the fuck out. That's how you keep other countries from fucking with you. They will hate the leader that does that though and I say.....good!

Where do I begin.

1. Obama will cut out the bullshit in our military spending. Since we spend more than every country in the world combined, that will be easy.

2. Don't call yourself a fiscal conservative if you approve of the GOP spending more on defense than every other country combined. And certainly don't ask for a tax break.

3. We are spread so thin because of Iraq that it has emboldened countries like Iraq and N. Korea. Fact.

4. Won't catch our enemies? Seems like the GOP gave up the fight against Al Queda and the search for Bin Ladin.

5. You must not realize what Iraq was all about. $.

6. Bush broke the military. On purpose too because he wanted to privatize war too. War for profit. Obama will rebuild the military, fire Blackwater and save money doing so. You'll say he's being weak militarily, but to you, if we aren't wasting billions on the militiary, then we aren't spending enough.

7. We were spending too much on defense. How much is enough? I don't know. But Bush spent too much. When you go to war for profit, you never want that war to end. That's why Iraq took so long. You think Bush made a mistake? Even though they knew what would happen? You are a fool. Maybe I'm not being clear. Cheney said in the 90's exactly what happened in Iraq, would happen. Ten yrs later he said they didn't expect it to happen.

Oh I forgot, I should not question my leaders. It is unAmerican.

8. Terrorists don't have a home country. Who you gonna bomb the next time 18 Saudi's fly planes into our buildings? Invade Iran you say?

I get worked up and the realize, you idiots aren't in power anymore. And then I exhale.

Who were you talking to? You quoted me, but then you went and talked about a bunch of Bush stuff, like I was saying Bush did a good job.

If you look at what I say in the last paragraph, you'll see that Bush doesn't stack up too well against that ideal. Like I said, I'm not asking you to believe me. Just watch. I have every confidence that Obama will prove what I predicted correct. If not, I'll be the first to admit it.

 

[sealybobo]

Victors write history books. They are from the point of view of the victorious.

If you read history from the point of view of the vanquished, of course it will look different.

Our history of foreign exploits should be viewed from the American point of view by Americans. The non-existent neutral "citizen of the world" viewpoint is a bunch poppycock. You need to chose sides and I would recommend being on the side of the country where you sleep at night.

So do you think historians will leave out that we lied our way into Iraq? Will it say we did it for oil or because of WMD's?

Will the story tell about how much money we pissed away over there? Will it talk about how we made Iran's enemy an ally?

Will history say the surge worked or will it tell the truth that we paid Mook Tada El Sadr and all the other "terrorists" to stop shooting at us?

Will it paint Blackwater in a positive light?

And I guess I need to compare Canada's version of the facts before I go arguing with my friends in Windsor?

Should I be an ignorant arrogant American when I argue with them? Should I tell them they are stupid when the reality is that my facts are flawed?

So you don't mind if you are lied to. Just shut up and swallow it. I get it. Because you never leave America, you don't care about American's going abroad?

Given who writes the history books here, I would expect a version very much like what you described.

However, I would imagine that when the history of the Iraq war is written in 50 years, it will be written in the context of whatever the relationship with Iraq has become for the US. Are they still a democracy? Did they become a client state of a resurgent Iran? If it turns out to have been a good deal for the US, then I think history will ratify the decision to go to war.

I'm sure when the facts come out about the decision making and who knew what and what did they know we'll find out that the real reason was not WMD. (For the record, I never bought what the Administration was selling on the WMD front. It didn't pass the sniff test. I did think they had at least chemical weapons though. I thought that was a slam dunk. But, I did not think they were any kind of an immediate threat to the US).

My thought is that we needed to either end the sanctions on Iraq (under pressure from our allies) or find a reason to go back to war with them. Saddam was acting guilty as hell, everyone thought he was guilty as hell, so they said WMDs. For my money, we did it because Iraq was strategically the right country to fight the war against the Islamo-fascists in. We had been in the country before, the logistics were good, we had direct access from the sea, the country itself was weakened by sanctions, we would drive a wedge between Iran and Syria, complicating their logistics for supplying Iranian proxies, it put more pressure on Iran and finally, it might just turn out to be a democracy. I wouldn't count on it, but in 50 years we'll know.

Nobody will care about Blackwater or any of that sideshow minutia.

It is a mistake to paint it like "good guys" and "bad guys." The US is not made up of a bunch of angels. What we do is not always "objectively right" and that should not be the expectation. It is enough that we get done what is in our country's interests. If we can manage that, then that's about all the expectation we have a right to. You want to have a chat with your Canadian friends, fine. Tell them it was in our interests to go to Iraq and put a big hole in the middle of the middle east. Yes, we created a lot more terrorists and then killed them. Tell them Iraq is a much better place to fight than Afghanistan. Tell them the bigger we make our footprint there the less likely we will have success.

I lived overseas for 3 years, how bout you bobo?

I agree and liked your reply, until the end.

Just like Bush's economy benefitted the top 1% but no one else, so did invading Iraq. The Blackwater, Haloburton's, PNAC's and Oil companies may have decided that this was in AMERICA's best interest, but I disagree.

And I am not going to lie when I debate my Canadian friends. Willow might enjoy lying for the Administration, but I don't.

Nor do I think it is necessary. Just like the rest of the world likes to see that Obama is not Bush, Canadians probably want to see that we aren't a country full of right wing republicans.

But push come to shove, we are the superpower, and if Canada doesn't like it, they can try being the superpower for awhile.

If only they would break from the Queen.

PS. Do you know how many Iraqi's are in prison? I suspect most of them will go free one day. Probably mostly Sunni's. Think they'll be angry when we let them go?

Do you think Mook Tada El Sadr will be the leader there someday soon? I hope not, but it looks like that's the way it is going.

PPS. I hear Bush's Oil buddies are making deals with Kurds, cutting out the Iraqi Central Government, which is a very bad thing to do. Could destabolize things even more.

So just like the GOP and corporations who decided to invade Iraq will probably write the history, they are also responsible for what's happening over there.

Who's in charge of Blackwater? Is Obama?

Who's in charge of the oil companies that have deals with the Iraqi's? Like Ray Hunt of Hunt Oil. Gave a lot to Bush's presidential library and now he has a big oil deal with Iraq.

 

[sealybobo]

What you will live to see, is that the left will weaken our military in real and tangible ways. Then they will weaken our will to actually do anything militarily. Our opponents throughout the world will see this and begin their relentless picking. Usually, this takes the form of blowing up our embassies and other American interests around the world.

We'll be sure to send our best FBI men out looking for the bad guys, not that we'll ever catch them. I'm not asking you to believe me, I'm just saying, keep your eyes open the next couple of years and remember this post when they start happening.

The proper way to do it (just so I'm not accused having no solution) is to build the military, speak with a quiet forcefulness on the world stage and don't use the military keep them chained up and snarling. If there is no choice but to use them, come in so big and so thunderous as to frighten generations yet to be born in the country under attack. Then get the fuck out. That's how you keep other countries from fucking with you. They will hate the leader that does that though and I say.....good!

Where do I begin.

1. Obama will cut out the bullshit in our military spending. Since we spend more than every country in the world combined, that will be easy.

2. Don't call yourself a fiscal conservative if you approve of the GOP spending more on defense than every other country combined. And certainly don't ask for a tax break.

3. We are spread so thin because of Iraq that it has emboldened countries like Iraq and N. Korea. Fact.

4. Won't catch our enemies? Seems like the GOP gave up the fight against Al Queda and the search for Bin Ladin.

5. You must not realize what Iraq was all about. $.

6. Bush broke the military. On purpose too because he wanted to privatize war too. War for profit. Obama will rebuild the military, fire Blackwater and save money doing so. You'll say he's being weak militarily, but to you, if we aren't wasting billions on the militiary, then we aren't spending enough.

7. We were spending too much on defense. How much is enough? I don't know. But Bush spent too much. When you go to war for profit, you never want that war to end. That's why Iraq took so long. You think Bush made a mistake? Even though they knew what would happen? You are a fool. Maybe I'm not being clear. Cheney said in the 90's exactly what happened in Iraq, would happen. Ten yrs later he said they didn't expect it to happen.

Oh I forgot, I should not question my leaders. It is unAmerican.

8. Terrorists don't have a home country. Who you gonna bomb the next time 18 Saudi's fly planes into our buildings? Invade Iran you say?

I get worked up and the realize, you idiots aren't in power anymore. And then I exhale.

Who were you talking to? You quoted me, but then you went and talked about a bunch of Bush stuff, like I was saying Bush did a good job.

If you look at what I say in the last paragraph, you'll see that Bush doesn't stack up too well against that ideal. Like I said, I'm not asking you to believe me. Just watch. I have every confidence that Obama will prove what I predicted correct. If not, I'll be the first to admit it.

You mean if a terrorist attacks an embassy it is Obama's fault? Screw that.

 

[sealybobo]

Actually, it makes us more safe. Bet you can't figure out why.

Why? Do you think terrorists are scared that we are crazy?

What about being spread so thin now we can't do anything about real threats like Iran and N. Korea?

Luckily for us the rest of the world doesn't hate our leader anymore. NKOTB.

Terrorists bombed the World Trade Center in 92 and then waited until 2001 to do it again.

Do you really feel safe from another attack? Really? I don't believe it. I look at our borders and feel like we are vulnerable still. Seems to me Bush wasted/stole a lot of the money he was given to make us safer. He gave a lot to red states that aren't at risk as much as some blue border states instead of giving the money to the states most at risk.

And I hear our airplanes and ports are still vulnerable.

And the same people that attacked us are now in Pakistan, still plotting.

So now we tap more phones and a million people are on the watch list, so now it is deluted. I never minded tapping phones as long as Bush told FISA, but he refused. Now Obama hopefully is telling FISA. Or fuck it. I hope Obama is spying on his political opponents. Since you didn't care Bush was breaking this law, don't cry now.

Okay....that was just a nutty rant.

What you will live to see, is that the left will weaken our military in real and tangible ways. Then they will weaken our will to actually do anything militarily. Our opponents throughout the world will see this and begin their relentless picking. Usually, this takes the form of blowing up our embassies and other American interests around the world.

We'll be sure to send our best FBI men out looking for the bad guys, not that we'll ever catch them. I'm not asking you to believe me, I'm just saying, keep your eyes open the next couple of years and remember this post when they start happening.

The proper way to do it (just so I'm not accused having no solution) is to build the military, speak with a quiet forcefulness on the world stage and don't use the military keep them chained up and snarling. If there is no choice but to use them, come in so big and so thunderous as to frighten generations yet to be born in the country under attack. Then get the fuck out. That's how you keep other countries from fucking with you. They will hate the leader that does that though and I say.....good!

I don't recall the GOP screaming at Clinton to invade any Arab countries after the USS Cole attack. Why not?

In fact, I have seen where the GOP accused Clinton of wag the dog, said Kosovo would be a quagmire, it would bankrupt this country, cost too many lives, etc. They basically said the same things the Dems have been saying the last 8 years about Iraq, only we were right about Iraq and the GOP was wrong about Kosovo.

I actually blame Monicagate for making Clinton a lame duck president.

You don't attack a President for that kind of bullshit while he is president. They should have waited until after he was out of office.

 

[WillowTree]

Why? Do you think terrorists are scared that we are crazy?

What about being spread so thin now we can't do anything about real threats like Iran and N. Korea?

Luckily for us the rest of the world doesn't hate our leader anymore. NKOTB.

Terrorists bombed the World Trade Center in 92 and then waited until 2001 to do it again.

Do you really feel safe from another attack? Really? I don't believe it. I look at our borders and feel like we are vulnerable still. Seems to me Bush wasted/stole a lot of the money he was given to make us safer. He gave a lot to red states that aren't at risk as much as some blue border states instead of giving the money to the states most at risk.

And I hear our airplanes and ports are still vulnerable.

And the same people that attacked us are now in Pakistan, still plotting.

So now we tap more phones and a million people are on the watch list, so now it is deluted. I never minded tapping phones as long as Bush told FISA, but he refused. Now Obama hopefully is telling FISA. Or fuck it. I hope Obama is spying on his political opponents. Since you didn't care Bush was breaking this law, don't cry now.

Okay....that was just a nutty rant.

What you will live to see, is that the left will weaken our military in real and tangible ways. Then they will weaken our will to actually do anything militarily. Our opponents throughout the world will see this and begin their relentless picking. Usually, this takes the form of blowing up our embassies and other American interests around the world.

We'll be sure to send our best FBI men out looking for the bad guys, not that we'll ever catch them. I'm not asking you to believe me, I'm just saying, keep your eyes open the next couple of years and remember this post when they start happening.

The proper way to do it (just so I'm not accused having no solution) is to build the military, speak with a quiet forcefulness on the world stage and don't use the military keep them chained up and snarling. If there is no choice but to use them, come in so big and so thunderous as to frighten generations yet to be born in the country under attack. Then get the fuck out. That's how you keep other countries from fucking with you. They will hate the leader that does that though and I say.....good!

I don't recall the GOP screaming at Clinton to invade any Arab countries after the USS Cole attack. Why not?

In fact, I have seen where the GOP accused Clinton of wag the dog, said Kosovo would be a quagmire, it would bankrupt this country, cost too many lives, etc. They basically said the same things the Dems have been saying the last 8 years about Iraq, only we were right about Iraq and the GOP was wrong about Kosovo.

I actually blame Monicagate for making Clinton a lame duck president.

You don't attack a President for that kind of bullshit while he is president. They should have waited until after he was out of office.

That's the most hilarious fucking thing I've seen printed all day!

 

[Tech_Esq]

Where do I begin.

1. Obama will cut out the bullshit in our military spending. Since we spend more than every country in the world combined, that will be easy.

2. Don't call yourself a fiscal conservative if you approve of the GOP spending more on defense than every other country combined. And certainly don't ask for a tax break.

3. We are spread so thin because of Iraq that it has emboldened countries like Iraq and N. Korea. Fact.

4. Won't catch our enemies? Seems like the GOP gave up the fight against Al Queda and the search for Bin Ladin.

5. You must not realize what Iraq was all about. $.

6. Bush broke the military. On purpose too because he wanted to privatize war too. War for profit. Obama will rebuild the military, fire Blackwater and save money doing so. You'll say he's being weak militarily, but to you, if we aren't wasting billions on the militiary, then we aren't spending enough.

7. We were spending too much on defense. How much is enough? I don't know. But Bush spent too much. When you go to war for profit, you never want that war to end. That's why Iraq took so long. You think Bush made a mistake? Even though they knew what would happen? You are a fool. Maybe I'm not being clear. Cheney said in the 90's exactly what happened in Iraq, would happen. Ten yrs later he said they didn't expect it to happen.

Oh I forgot, I should not question my leaders. It is unAmerican.

8. Terrorists don't have a home country. Who you gonna bomb the next time 18 Saudi's fly planes into our buildings? Invade Iran you say?

I get worked up and the realize, you idiots aren't in power anymore. And then I exhale.

Who were you talking to? You quoted me, but then you went and talked about a bunch of Bush stuff, like I was saying Bush did a good job.

If you look at what I say in the last paragraph, you'll see that Bush doesn't stack up too well against that ideal. Like I said, I'm not asking you to believe me. Just watch. I have every confidence that Obama will prove what I predicted correct. If not, I'll be the first to admit it.

You mean if a terrorist attacks an embassy it is Obama's fault? Screw that.

I'll give you one for free. How many got attacked on Bush's watch? Clinton's? if you have a calculator handy you can answer it for Carter's.

 

[sealybobo]

Okay....that was just a nutty rant.

What you will live to see, is that the left will weaken our military in real and tangible ways. Then they will weaken our will to actually do anything militarily. Our opponents throughout the world will see this and begin their relentless picking. Usually, this takes the form of blowing up our embassies and other American interests around the world.

We'll be sure to send our best FBI men out looking for the bad guys, not that we'll ever catch them. I'm not asking you to believe me, I'm just saying, keep your eyes open the next couple of years and remember this post when they start happening.

The proper way to do it (just so I'm not accused having no solution) is to build the military, speak with a quiet forcefulness on the world stage and don't use the military keep them chained up and snarling. If there is no choice but to use them, come in so big and so thunderous as to frighten generations yet to be born in the country under attack. Then get the fuck out. That's how you keep other countries from fucking with you. They will hate the leader that does that though and I say.....good!

I don't recall the GOP screaming at Clinton to invade any Arab countries after the USS Cole attack. Why not?

In fact, I have seen where the GOP accused Clinton of wag the dog, said Kosovo would be a quagmire, it would bankrupt this country, cost too many lives, etc. They basically said the same things the Dems have been saying the last 8 years about Iraq, only we were right about Iraq and the GOP was wrong about Kosovo.

I actually blame Monicagate for making Clinton a lame duck president.

You don't attack a President for that kind of bullshit while he is president. They should have waited until after he was out of office.

That's the most hilarious fucking thing I've seen printed all day!

Tech Esq seems like a very intelligent person.

Nothing like you.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Why? Do you think terrorists are scared that we are crazy?

What about being spread so thin now we can't do anything about real threats like Iran and N. Korea?

Luckily for us the rest of the world doesn't hate our leader anymore. NKOTB.

Terrorists bombed the World Trade Center in 92 and then waited until 2001 to do it again.

Do you really feel safe from another attack? Really? I don't believe it. I look at our borders and feel like we are vulnerable still. Seems to me Bush wasted/stole a lot of the money he was given to make us safer. He gave a lot to red states that aren't at risk as much as some blue border states instead of giving the money to the states most at risk.

And I hear our airplanes and ports are still vulnerable.

And the same people that attacked us are now in Pakistan, still plotting.

So now we tap more phones and a million people are on the watch list, so now it is deluted. I never minded tapping phones as long as Bush told FISA, but he refused. Now Obama hopefully is telling FISA. Or fuck it. I hope Obama is spying on his political opponents. Since you didn't care Bush was breaking this law, don't cry now.

Okay....that was just a nutty rant.

What you will live to see, is that the left will weaken our military in real and tangible ways. Then they will weaken our will to actually do anything militarily. Our opponents throughout the world will see this and begin their relentless picking. Usually, this takes the form of blowing up our embassies and other American interests around the world.

We'll be sure to send our best FBI men out looking for the bad guys, not that we'll ever catch them. I'm not asking you to believe me, I'm just saying, keep your eyes open the next couple of years and remember this post when they start happening.

The proper way to do it (just so I'm not accused having no solution) is to build the military, speak with a quiet forcefulness on the world stage and don't use the military keep them chained up and snarling. If there is no choice but to use them, come in so big and so thunderous as to frighten generations yet to be born in the country under attack. Then get the fuck out. That's how you keep other countries from fucking with you. They will hate the leader that does that though and I say.....good!

I don't recall the GOP screaming at Clinton to invade any Arab countries after the USS Cole attack. Why not?

In fact, I have seen where the GOP accused Clinton of wag the dog, said Kosovo would be a quagmire, it would bankrupt this country, cost too many lives, etc. They basically said the same things the Dems have been saying the last 8 years about Iraq, only we were right about Iraq and the GOP was wrong about Kosovo.

I actually blame Monicagate for making Clinton a lame duck president.

You don't attack a President for that kind of bullshit while he is president. They should have waited until after he was out of office.

Why would we have wanted to invade a country after the Cole? Besides in the Clinton administration we only invaded where ever the UN said to invade. I didn't matter what was good for the US.

I'm not sure what the 'wag the dog' rant was all about, so I'll leave it be.

I have a novel approach, I blame Clinton for making himself a lame duck and having to actually come out and say that he was still relevant. In the Monica situation I have two takes on it:

1) He was a stupid fuck to put himself in a position where a stupid 22 year old girl had power over him. DUMBASS I thought he was supposed to be smart and that's one of the dumbest acts ever committed by a President.

2) You don't lie under oath period. He's was a lawyer, there is no excuse. Forget how he got to that moment, you just can't do it. And, frankly, go back to number one, his fault he was there in the first place. That's what happens when you let a 22 year old get into you business like that.

 

[WillowTree]

I don't recall the GOP screaming at Clinton to invade any Arab countries after the USS Cole attack. Why not?

In fact, I have seen where the GOP accused Clinton of wag the dog, said Kosovo would be a quagmire, it would bankrupt this country, cost too many lives, etc. They basically said the same things the Dems have been saying the last 8 years about Iraq, only we were right about Iraq and the GOP was wrong about Kosovo.

I actually blame Monicagate for making Clinton a lame duck president.

You don't attack a President for that kind of bullshit while he is president. They should have waited until after he was out of office.

That's the most hilarious fucking thing I've seen printed all day!

Tech Esq seems like a very intelligent person.

Nothing like you.

I'm sure he will take that as a compliment.. I woud.

 

[Chris]

It always cracks me up to read some right wing nutcase complaining about how "the left will weaken the military." First of all Phil Gramm's deregulation of the financial markets weakened America more than anything in the last 100 years. Secondly, one nuclear submarine could destroy 75% of Russia's industrial production. We have been wasted billions on the military for years in order to fight 50 guys in a cave in Pakistan. Now the Republican chickenhawks have come home to roost. Don't worry little Tech, the adults are back in charge now, and we will survive.