China's military is surrounding Taiwan, sending its new president an unmistakable message

[martybegan]

1) China has been rattling Sabers at Taiwan for 75 years.

2) Taiwan is legally recognized as part of China by the UN, the US State Department and most of the world.

3) All that said, there's really no danger of China invading Taiwan, the two countries are economically dependent on each other. China and Hong Kong represent 30% of Taiwan's exports. They'd be pretty much screwed if China cut them off.

You remember who was Russia's biggest trading partner before June 1941?

 

[martybegan]

Terribly.

They should have told the Polish Colonels to give Hitler Danzig and Silesia and been done with it. Instead, they wrote the Polish Colonels a blank check, that they couldn't cash. Hitler made an agreement with Stalin and the war broke out.

You really think it would have stopped with Danzig and Silesia?

He was given the Sudetenland and then took the rest of Czechoslovakia in defiance of Munich.

 

[JoeB131]

You remember who was Russia's biggest trading partner before June 1941?

What I remember is Stalin threw in with Hitler because the West wasn't willing to work with him on any level.

ou really think it would have stopped with Danzig and Silesia?

He was given the Sudetenland and then took the rest of Czechoslovakia in defiance of Munich.

That was a complete misunderstanding of what happened after Munich.

What happened after Munich is that when Germany got HER territory back (because those were all Germans, not Czechs) Hungary rightfully asked for the regions inhabited by Hungarians. Slovakia decided they no longer wanted to be in the same country with the Czechs (They never really did, which is why they are two separate countries today) and what was left was turned into a protectorate. The problem with Czechoslovakia was that it was always an artificial creation that didn't reflect the wishes of the people who lived there.

 

[martybegan]

What I remember is Stalin threw in with Hitler because the West wasn't willing to work with him on any level.



That was a complete misunderstanding of what happened after Munich.

What happened after Munich is that when Germany got HER territory back (because those were all Germans, not Czechs) Hungary rightfully asked for the regions inhabited by Hungarians. Slovakia decided they no longer wanted to be in the same country with the Czechs (They never really did, which is why they are two separate countries today) and what was left was turned into a protectorate. The problem with Czechoslovakia was that it was always an artificial creation that didn't reflect the wishes of the people who lived there.

I doubt Poland was going to let 50 divisions of Red Army troops through their territory either.

Austrians actually.

The problem was Hitler was going to take it all anyway, and lied at Munich and the West bought it.

 

[JoeB131]

I doubt Poland was going to let 50 divisions of Red Army troops through their territory either.

Austrians actually.

The problem was Hitler was going to take it all anyway, and lied at Munich and the West bought it.

Actually, no.

The thing was, according to people who knew Hitler, he thought he got screwed at Munich. He wanted the whole of Czechoslovakia, and he had to settle for just the Sudetenland.

The problem of British Diplomacy was that they failed to build an anti-German alliance after Munich that should have included Italy and the USSR. Instead, they threw in with Hitler because Hitler promised them more.

 

[martybegan]

Actually, no.

The thing was, according to people who knew Hitler, he thought he got screwed at Munich. He wanted the whole of Czechoslovakia, and he had to settle for just the Sudetenland.

The problem of British Diplomacy was that they failed to build an anti-German alliance after Munich that should have included Italy and the USSR. Instead, they threw in with Hitler because Hitler promised them more.

And then he took the rest anyway, either right after, or once the war got underway.

Again, how would the USSR have been able to get to the Germans if Poland wouldn't let them through their territory?

Remember they fought each other only 20 years before after WWI.

WWII, like judgement day in the Terminator movies was inventiable, the only question was when it was going to start. If they started when the Rhineland was re-militarized, or when Austria was annexed, the allies might have had a chance.
Even at Munich they would have at least had the Czech army and Poland on their side. But after that, the balance swung to Germany.

 

[JoeB131]

And then he took the rest anyway, either right after, or once the war got underway.

Again, how would the USSR have been able to get to the Germans if Poland wouldn't let them through their territory?

Remember they fought each other only 20 years before after WWI.

WWII, like judgement day in the Terminator movies was inventiable, the only question was when it was going to start. If they started when the Rhineland was re-militarized, or when Austria was annexed, the allies might have had a chance.
Even at Munich they would have at least had the Czech army and Poland on their side. But after that, the balance swung to Germany.

except Poland wasn't "On their side". Poland was happy to grab some Czech territory during the post-Munich fire sale.

The war was only inevitable because of the bad diplomacy by the British, and the failure of the allied militaries to do their job.

 

[martybegan]

except Poland wasn't "On their side". Poland was happy to grab some Czech territory during the post-Munich fire sale.

The war was only inevitable because of the bad diplomacy by the British, and the failure of the allied militaries to do their job.

And the Russia did the grabbing later as well.

The French army was designed for defense, not offense. The Maginot mentality made offensive action difficult to implement, and probably impossible to execute fully.

WWII was born of WWI via the Versailles treaty. As Foch said right after the signing (but for the wrong reasons) "we don't have a peace treaty, we have an armistice for 20 years"

 

[Robert W]

Okay, so what's your point?

Are you willing to blow up the whole world because a small group of Chinese are still butthurt about a civil war they lost 75 years ago? I'm not.

The problem with people like you is that you have little understanding of Chinese history, and why China is very touchy on issues of national sovereignty.

I did more investigating into this than you have. Look for example what has happened to Hong Kong. Recall how it was friendly? When the public living there was happy?
Taiwan as Linda K explained to me was not always occupied by Chinese. Natives resembling the filipinos or even other islanders clear up to Hawaii still occupy Taiwan. China never owned it. It now has Taiwanese living there because they left China after the end of WW2 to avoid being in China. Of Course China covets Taiwan. Taiwan is very wealthy and a larger island than most Americans realize it is. We have Democrats who so favor China they will simply sit on their asses and let China take Taiwan over. But the Taiwanese sure want to remain as they are.

 

[JoeB131]

I did more investigating into this than you have. Look for example what has happened to Hong Kong. Recall how it was friendly? When the public living there was happy?
Taiwan as Linda K explained to me was not always occupied by Chinese. Natives resembling the filipinos or even other islanders clear up to Hawaii still occupy Taiwan. China never owned it. It now has Taiwanese living there because they left China after the end of WW2 to avoid being in China. Of Course China covets Taiwan. Taiwan is very wealthy and a larger island than most Americans realize it is. We have Democrats who so favor China they will simply sit on their asses and let China take Taiwan over. But the Taiwanese sure want to remain as they are.

I think you are confused on a few points.

Hong Kong was only LEASED from China. China honored the lease made by the Qing when they could have just as easily rolled tanks in 1949 and expelled the British.

Taiwan was settled by Chinese starting in the 16th century and being formally annexed by the Ming Dyansty in 1644. The Qing Dynasty expelled the remaining Ming in 1683 and formally annexed the Island. It remained in Chinese hands until 1895, when it was turned over to Japan, but returned to China in 1945. Sorry, it's part of China. Deal with it.

I am sure that the Taiwanese are happy with the status quo, but is it worth one American life? I don't think so.

 

[Robert W]

I think you are confused on a few points.

Hong Kong was only LEASED from China. China honored the lease made by the Qing when they could have just as easily rolled tanks in 1949 and expelled the British.

Taiwan was settled by Chinese starting in the 16th century and being formally annexed by the Ming Dyansty in 1644. The Qing Dynasty expelled the remaining Ming in 1683 and formally annexed the Island. It remained in Chinese hands until 1895, when it was turned over to Japan, but returned to China in 1945. Sorry, it's part of China. Deal with it.

I am sure that the Taiwanese are happy with the status quo, but is it worth one American life? I don't think so.

I know that Hong Kong was leased to Britain. I had some clients from Hong Kong as well. I ask questions a lot. China had been split between the Chinese nationals and the communists. When The communists won against the natives, it doomed China to a very restrictive form of Government and the population was doomed to poverty. After Hong Kong returned back to China at the end of the lease, then poverty hit Hong Kong as well. The current Chinese leaders are less willing to impoverish Hong Kong so it has recovered and I don't know how well it has.

You do not mention the native islanders who were on Taiwan prior to Chiang Kai Shek arriving. Those and not Chinese are the original settlers.

Linda who worked for me as an appraiser did mention how they liked Japan prior to Chiang showing up. She had to learn Japanese as a child. She was very informative to me who is an American from CA.

 

[JoeB131]

You do not mention the native islanders who were on Taiwan prior to Chiang Kai Shek arriving. Those and not Chinese are the original settlers.

Because they don't matter.. Today, 97% of Taiwan's inhabitants are Han Chinese.

Demographics of Taiwan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Linda who worked for me as an appraiser did mention how they liked Japan prior to Chiang showing up. She had to learn Japanese as a child. She was very informative to me who is an American from CA.

That should be a red flag right there. Most Chinese hate the Japanese with a passion.

 

[Robert W]

Because they don't matter.. Today, 97% of Taiwan's inhabitants are Han Chinese.

Demographics of Taiwan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That should be a red flag right there. Most Chinese hate the Japanese with a passion.

Japan treated the Taiwanese very good. They killed many Chinese in China but did not disclose that to the Taiwanese. You are tossing in some unimportant information. Such as about the Han Chinese.
Taiwanese indigenous peoples, also known as Formosans, Native Taiwanese or Austronesian Taiwanese,[2][3] and formerly as Taiwanese aborigines, Takasago people or Gaoshan people,[4] are the indigenous peoples of Taiwan, with the nationally recognized subgroups numbering about 569,000 or 2.38% of the island's population. This total is increased to more than 800,000 if the indigenous peoples of the plains in Taiwan are included, pending future official recognition. When including those of mixed ancestry, such a number is possibly more than a million. Academic research suggests that their ancestors have been living on Taiwan for approximately 15,000 years. A wide body of evidence suggests that the Taiwanese indigenous peoples had maintained regular trade networks with numerous regional cultures of Southeast Asia before the Han Chinese colonists began settling on the island from the 17th century, at the behest of the Dutch colonial administration and later by successive governments towards the 20th century.[5][6]

Taiwanese indigenous peoples are Austronesians, with linguistic, genetic and cultural ties to other Austronesian peoples.[

 

[JoeB131]

Japan treated the Taiwanese very good. They killed many Chinese in China but did not disclose that to the Taiwanese. You are tossing in some unimportant information. Such as about the Han Chinese.

The fact that 97% of Taiwan's inhabitants are ethnically Han Chinese is irrelevant.

Really?

Japan's colonial legacy in Taiwan part 3: Japan's cultural genocide against Taiwan's indigenous peoples

The DPP officials should demand Tokyo compensate their indigenous people for the land, lives and cultural heritage they lost.

news.cgtn.com

Japan's colonial legacy in Taiwan part 2: Brutal Hoko police state and its casualties

The DPP is deliberately degrading, insulting and whitewashing the memories of its victims by misleadingly portraying Tokyo as a "friend" and "ally."

news.cgtn.com

Japan's colonial legacy in Taiwan part 1: Japan forced Taiwan to finance its imperial ambitions

The current DPP separatists pay little heed to this legacy when it's trying to seek "security" from the former colonist.

news.cgtn.com

 

[Robert W]

The fact that 97% of Taiwan's inhabitants are ethnically Han Chinese is irrelevant.

Really?

Japan's colonial legacy in Taiwan part 3: Japan's cultural genocide against Taiwan's indigenous peoples

The DPP officials should demand Tokyo compensate their indigenous people for the land, lives and cultural heritage they lost.

news.cgtn.com

Japan's colonial legacy in Taiwan part 2: Brutal Hoko police state and its casualties

The DPP is deliberately degrading, insulting and whitewashing the memories of its victims by misleadingly portraying Tokyo as a "friend" and "ally."

news.cgtn.com

Japan's colonial legacy in Taiwan part 1: Japan forced Taiwan to finance its imperial ambitions

The current DPP separatists pay little heed to this legacy when it's trying to seek "security" from the former colonist.

news.cgtn.com

Not to the islanders, but for we Americans in the USA, it does not make a bit of difference. In fact your retort shows the way Japan ran Taiwan from 1895 to 1945. So even you dismissed the Han. Linda pretty much educated me on Taiwan. Prior to hiring her. I was in the dark except I knew about Chiang Kai Shek. I was in total shock when she told me she is not Chinese. She is Taiwanese. As is her son and husband. Well her Son went to Stanford and has a doctors degree and I imagine by now he is pretty rich. He and classmates formed at least one tech company after they graduated.

 

[zaangalewa]

China's military is surrounding Taiwan, sending its new president an unmistakable message​

Let me guess - the message is: "We are idiots, yours sincerely Xi Jinping, tyrant of China. If the world anyway has problems I will add some totally superflous problems."

Background: China has more than 250 times the size of Taiwan and about 600 times the population of Taiwan - but Xi Jingping is not able to live with the fact that no one really needs tyrants. Also China will be able to become a democracy.

 

[zaangalewa]

... 2) Taiwan is legally recognized as part of China by the UN, the US State Department and most of the world. ...

if so then "the world" is wrong. Taiwan never in history had been a part of China.

 

[Robert W]

Um, that's nice. I also used to work with a lady from Taiwan with similar sentiments.

But you know what? They speak Mandarin, they write in traditional Hanzi, and they call themselves "the Republic of China". They're fucking Chinese.

You would learn a lesson if somebody in the USA gave away your freedom.

Taiwan is very large. Taiwan does not want China to control them. But if enough Democrats plead Chinas case, there will be war. And we will get mixed up in it.

 

[Robert W]

The fact that 97% of Taiwan's inhabitants are ethnically Han Chinese is irrelevant.

Really?

Japan's colonial legacy in Taiwan part 3: Japan's cultural genocide against Taiwan's indigenous peoples

The DPP officials should demand Tokyo compensate their indigenous people for the land, lives and cultural heritage they lost.

news.cgtn.com

Japan's colonial legacy in Taiwan part 2: Brutal Hoko police state and its casualties

The DPP is deliberately degrading, insulting and whitewashing the memories of its victims by misleadingly portraying Tokyo as a "friend" and "ally."

news.cgtn.com

Japan's colonial legacy in Taiwan part 1: Japan forced Taiwan to finance its imperial ambitions

The current DPP separatists pay little heed to this legacy when it's trying to seek "security" from the former colonist.

news.cgtn.com

People want to live in Taiwan to get away from the Chinese.

 

[JoeB131]

if so then "the world" is wrong. Taiwan never in history had been a part of China.

Taiwan was part of China since the Ming Dynasty, the Qing Dynasty until 1895, and the Republic of China since 1945.

Taiwan legally calls itself "The Republic of China," not the Republic of Taiwan.

You would learn a lesson if somebody in the USA gave away your freedom.

Taiwan is very large. Taiwan does not want China to control them. But if enough Democrats plead Chinas case, there will be war. And we will get mixed up in it.

Republicans did that a long time ago when they destroyed unions and working people's rights in this country.

Here's how you avoid war.

"China, "We are re-asserting our sovereignty over Taiwan"
America: Not our problem!

War averted.

See how easy that was.