Creeping paranoia

[raines]

I mean, I'm all for the argument at hand here, but let's not venture off track!

 

[Nik]

Source? It can be found in his write up in wiki. As I've said before google the guy. Sunstein is a guy with a wide variety of opinions and almost everyone will hate at least some of them. he seems to believe most environmental legislation is a waste of time meaning the greenies don't like him. He halso thinks we should let old folks die rather than spend money on them.

Again all of this can be found in his Wiki write up.

Please cite the exact text where it is found.

The words "abort", "abortion", and "children" appear nowhere in his wiki write up. It appears rather clear that you are lying about what his wiki write up contains.

Cass Sunstein - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[raines]

Sunstein is a proponent of judicial minimalism, arguing that judges should focus primarily on deciding the case at hand, and avoid making sweeping changes to the law or decisions that have broad-reaching effects. He is generally thought to be liberal despite publicly supporting some of George W. Bush's judicial nominees, including Michael W. McConnell and John G. Roberts. Much of his work also brings behavioral economics to bear on law, suggesting that the "rational actor" model will sometimes produce an inadequate understanding of how people will respond to legal intervention.

Sunstein is a proponent of judicial minimalism, arguing that judges should focus primarily on deciding the case at hand, and avoid making sweeping changes to the law or decisions that have broad-reaching effects. He is generally thought to be liberal despite publicly supporting some of George W. Bush's judicial nominees, including Michael W. McConnell and John G. Roberts. Much of his work also brings behavioral economics to bear on law, suggesting that the "rational actor" model will sometimes produce an inadequate understanding of how people will respond to legal intervention.

What, exactly, is wrong with this guy?

 

[AllieBaba]

He would also like to see abortion law be changed into something much more specific.

BTW, they have "post birth abortion" in the Netherlands.

 

[oreo]

These people are starting to worry me.

The forces allied against healthcare reform are very rich and very powerful.

The Republicans and the "Blue Dog" Democrats are their lap dogs.

What Obama is proposing is pretty basic really.

A public option for everybody and no denial of coverage for "pre-existing conditions."

Everyone gets a public option when they turn 65 anyway.

Everyone who turns 65 is forced onto medicare--there is no OPTION--other than supplemental insurance that pays for things medicare will not pay for.

And that is the worry. The other concern is how much is this going to cost & exactly who is going to pay for it.

Something that appears to be about a clear as mud right now.

Americans who have insurance paid for by their employers do not want their benefits taxed to pay for Americans who have no coverage. Employers do not want to be fined an 8% payroll tax for not insuring employees--that may put them over the edge & into bankrupsty & employees do not want to pay 2.5% of their gross payroll to get on the public plan.

All of these people are average everyday--taxpaying citizens of this country & are inclusive of democrats, independents & republicans.

This is why today 8/10/09 Rasmussen poll shows that 51% of the American populace trust their private medical insurance companies over the Government plan.

http://rasmussenreports.getmobile.com/

 

[AllieBaba]

Post-birth abortion is a synonym for infanticide. Reserved for kids who are not perfect, and legal in The Netherlands, along with non-consent euthanasia.

You think it can't happen, but it can, and it will, if this crap doesn't stop.

 

[Nik]

Post-birth abortion is a synonym for infanticide. Reserved for kids who are not perfect, and legal in The Netherlands, along with non-consent euthanasia.

You think it can't happen, but it can, and it will, if this crap doesn't stop.

No, its reserved for kids who are born terminally ill.

Or do you think that perfection means only not being terminally ill?

 

[raines]

He would also like to see abortion law be changed into something much more specific.

BTW, they have "post birth abortion" in the Netherlands.

If this is the case, I vehenomously oppose him. Can you provide the facts through links? Direct quotes etc? Links legitimizing your claims on the Netherlands?

 

[AllieBaba]

What sort of babies are born "terminally ill" besides babies with congenital birth defects?

Imperfect babies. And we're all terminal.

 

[Nik]

These people are starting to worry me.

The forces allied against healthcare reform are very rich and very powerful.

The Republicans and the "Blue Dog" Democrats are their lap dogs.

What Obama is proposing is pretty basic really.

A public option for everybody and no denial of coverage for "pre-existing conditions."

Everyone gets a public option when they turn 65 anyway.

Everyone who turns 65 is forced onto medicare--there is no OPTION--other than supplemental insurance that pays for things medicare will not pay for.

There is no OPTION....except for all the options of supplemental insurance.

So your point is, except for all those options, there aren't any options?

And that is the worry. The other concern is how much is this going to cost & exactly who is going to pay for it.

Something that appears to be about a clear as mud right now.

Well its unclear because there are a ton of different bills out there. Looking at any one bill you could prolly figure it out, but who knows which bill will become law, if any.

Americans who have insurance paid for by their employers do not want their benefits taxed to pay for Americans who have no coverage. Employers do not want to be fined an 8% payroll tax for not insuring employees--that may put them over the edge & into bankrupsty & employees do not want to pay 2.5% of their gross payroll to get on the public plan.

All of these people are average everyday--taxpaying citizens of this country & are inclusive of democrats, independents & republicans.

This is why today 8/10/09 Rasmussen poll shows that 51% of the American populace trust their private medical insurance companies over the Government plan.

[/quote]

Then keep your private insurance. Nobody is forcing anyone to switch off of them. By the way, what people don't realize is that their healthcare isn't free when its paid by your employer. Even though theres no direct deduction (or a small one), it still comes directly out of wages.

 

[raines]

Oh my Jesus, what dumbasses!
Yes, I have followed you directly.... no need to quote.

 

[Nik]

What sort of babies are born "terminally ill" besides babies with congenital birth defects?

Imperfect babies. And we're all terminal.

They do have congenital birth defects. In one case I found it was described as "extreme spina bifida".

We are all terminal? What the hell are you talking about?

 

[Nik]

Post-birth abortion is a synonym for infanticide. Reserved for kids who are not perfect, and legal in The Netherlands, along with non-consent euthanasia.

You think it can't happen, but it can, and it will, if this crap doesn't stop.

Actually, I don't think it is legal there.

So please provide a link to prove that it is currently legal to euthanise nonconsenting individuals in the Netherlands.

 

[AllieBaba]

"In a world with Medicare and Medicaid, moreover, the illness of any one of us is a bill for many or even most of us. In such a world, one person's decision to run a risk imposes costs on many other people."
Valuing Life

"With respect to children, Minow and LaMay claim that there are serious problems calling for creative governmental response. In their view, children do not have enough good programming. "

"Surely government can take steps to make it easier for parents to do what they ought to do, and that is the purpose of the "circuitry" requirement. To the extent that Minow and LaMay are trying moral suasion, and speaking of modest regulation, their argument is not weakened by the possibility of parental control."
Selling Children

This guy never shuts up.

 

[AllieBaba]

What sort of babies are born "terminally ill" besides babies with congenital birth defects?

Imperfect babies. And we're all terminal.

They do have congenital birth defects. In one case I found it was described as "extreme spina bifida".

We are all terminal? What the hell are you talking about?

I mean everyone dies. Sometimes quite suddenly. It's no reason to kill those who are helpless.

As I said, it's just a nice word for murderering someone who will die someday. As we'll all die.

And I know many kids with spina bifida who lived ordinary lives.

I also know many adults whose parents were told when they were infants that they wouldn't survive.

 

[garyd]

FRC Blog » Change Watch Backgrounder: Cass Sunstein

Further links to a paper written by Professor Sunstien.

 

[AllieBaba]

Knock yourself out.

Articles by cass r. sunstein

 

[Nik]

"In a world with Medicare and Medicaid, moreover, the illness of any one of us is a bill for many or even most of us. In such a world, one person's decision to run a risk imposes costs on many other people."
Valuing Life

And? This is, quite simply, a fact about the world. Its not opinion, its fact. Perhaps a fact that you'd rather not be true, but that doesn't really mean that much.

"With respect to children, Minow and LaMay claim that there are serious problems calling for creative governmental response. In their view, children do not have enough good programming. "

"Surely government can take steps to make it easier for parents to do what they ought to do, and that is the purpose of the "circuitry" requirement. To the extent that Minow and LaMay are trying moral suasion, and speaking of modest regulation, their argument is not weakened by the possibility of parental control."
Selling Children

This guy never shuts up.

And? He is a proponent of encouraging people to act in positive ways. Something the US government has done for generations. Not via overt control, but through subtle regulations. Or would you rather direct, heavy handedness, Allie?

And yes, Sunstein is rather prolific. Its really quite an insult to tell someone they are prolific, good on you there.

 

[raines]

Then keep your private insurance. Nobody is forcing anyone to switch off of them. By the way, what people don't realize is that their healthcare isn't free when its paid by your employer. Even though theres no direct deduction (or a small one), it still comes directly out of wages.

Ok then.... here is what you need to realize.... and I hope you never will..... the deduction that stems from nationalized health care in our governmental establishment, that already taxes around 15 to 24 percent on the majority in income taxes will have to increase the burden by 1half time to sustain the program. FACT. Do the numbers yourself. You will be forced to partake in an overtaxed (forgive the pun) system based on affordability. Oh my GAWD, trust that I know the alternative in government run health care vs. civilian. I've been forced into the military healthcare system as a civillian.

 

[Nik]

What sort of babies are born "terminally ill" besides babies with congenital birth defects?

Imperfect babies. And we're all terminal.

They do have congenital birth defects. In one case I found it was described as "extreme spina bifida".

We are all terminal? What the hell are you talking about?

I mean everyone dies. Sometimes quite suddenly. It's no reason to kill those who are helpless.

What does the fact that everyone dies have to do with figuring out how to deal with an infant born with a terrible birth defect who will live a few terrible, painful weeks, only to then die? Do you enjoy the idea of infants living a brief life full of terrible pain?

As I said, it's just a nice word for murderering someone who will die someday. As we'll all die.

No, its not. An infant with extreme spina bifida is not in the same situation as you or I. To claim that they are is simply dishonest.

And I know many kids with spina bifida who lived ordinary lives.

It was an extreme case of spina bifida.

I also know many adults whose parents were told when they were infants that they wouldn't survive.

And? I suspect theres quite a difference between informing a parent of that, and acting on that belief. Standards might be ever so slightly higher, yah think?