Daniel Kovalik: Why Russia's intervention in Ukraine is legal under international law

[SavannahMann]

America is fighting for regime change in Russia to the last drop of Ukrainian blood, and this policy has been in place since Operation Red Sox in 1949.

In 2014 an American diplomat picked the next Prime Minister of Ukraine after a violent mob drove a duly elected president from office.

In April 2021, at the urging of America, Zelensky issued a declaration of intent to retake Crimea and built up his forces on the border with Donbass.

Putin had a much better reason for his invasion than Bush had for his assault on Iraq in 2003 which has killed, maimed, and displaced millions of innocent civilians.

Oh for Fucks sake.

I wonder if you guys get daily emails with the talking points. Let’s see. Did you address the Russian Lies told pre invasion? No. Why? It’s not in the talking points memo is it?

Did you discuss the lies told by Russia since the invasion? No, again, not in the memo.

So you parrot the same tired worn out nonsense. Maybe this time it will fly. Nope, another brick.

Why did the Violent Mob drive the President out of office? The people wanted EU Membership. THE PEOPLE! The vast majority of Ukrainian People wanted closer ties with the west, and the President of Ukraine, under pressure from Putin and the new Soviet Regime, after spending years discussing those ties, announced a policy of closer ties to the Russians.

The people didn’t want that. The people responded by rioting. They would not be sent home, they didn’t want anything to do with the new Soviet.

Why not? Because they remember the good old days of Soviet control. While Russia never talks about Chernobyl, Ukraine certainly does. It’s in their house, and they are still stuck with dealing with the mess.

Now, we come to modern day. For some reason, the Ukrainian Government, and people, wanted the Ukrainian Territory, their own land, under their own control. Outrageous I know.

Especially since Putin had been funding and supporting the rebels in the Donbas since the Riots drove his puppet out of office. Russia claimed to want to maintain sovereignty over their port on the Crimean Peninsula. But they took the entire Peninsula didn’t they? It would be as if America said they had to maintain control over Guantanamo Bay, and took over half of Cuba.

There has been nothing but lies, and excuses from Russia, and denouncing the response to these actions, is insane. It is bullshit. Plain and simple.

 

[Silver Cat]

Oh for Fucks sake.

I wonder if you guys get daily emails with the talking points. Let’s see. Did you address the Russian Lies told pre invasion? No. Why? It’s not in the talking points memo is it?

Did you discuss the lies told by Russia since the invasion? No, again, not in the memo.

So you parrot the same tired worn out nonsense. Maybe this time it will fly. Nope, another brick.

Why did the Violent Mob drive the President out of office? The people wanted EU Membership. THE PEOPLE! The vast majority of Ukrainian People wanted closer ties with the west, and the President of Ukraine, under pressure from Putin and the new Soviet Regime, after spending years discussing those ties, announced a policy of closer ties to the Russians.

The people didn’t want that. The people responded by rioting. They would not be sent home, they didn’t want anything to do with the new Soviet.

Why not? Because they remember the good old days of Soviet control. While Russia never talks about Chernobyl, Ukraine certainly does. It’s in their house, and they are still stuck with dealing with the mess.

Now, we come to modern day. For some reason, the Ukrainian Government, and people, wanted the Ukrainian Territory, their own land, under their own control. Outrageous I know.

Especially since Putin had been funding and supporting the rebels in the Donbas since the Riots drove his puppet out of office. Russia claimed to want to maintain sovereignty over their port on the Crimean Peninsula. But they took the entire Peninsula didn’t they? It would be as if America said they had to maintain control over Guantanamo Bay, and took over half of Cuba.

There has been nothing but lies, and excuses from Russia, and denouncing the response to these actions, is insane. It is bullshit. Plain and simple.

1. Maidan was committed by the absolute minority of the people - mostly by far-right Ukrainian nationalists from the Western Ukraine. The East and South of Ukraine didn't accepted it, and, therefore, rioted too. More precisely - the fragile balance of ethnic, religious, political and economical problems was totally destroyed by the incompetent Obama's team.
2. The first legal act signed by the Junta was ban of Russian language usage. Of course, Russian-speakers were pissed off by it. Can you imagine the consequences of the ban of English language in Canada commited by the French-speaking pro-China Junta?
3. People (even in the Western Ukraine) didn't want eurointegration just for itself. They wanted it to increase their wealth and life quality. But, as it was said before Maidan - Ukrainian economy just collapsed. And that's why most of Ukrainians, Russians, Greeks, Romanians, Hungarians and other peoples of Ukraine hate both Poroshenko and Zelenskiy.

 

[georgephillip]

The awakening was starting to become evident even on this forum. Initially with Americans' first consideration being domestic politics of hate for Biden and his war.

Obama warned us about Biden's ability to F... things up, and his heavy-handed application of economic sanctions has given many countries good reason to consider de-dollarization:

On Ukraine, the World Majority Sides With Russia Over US - Antiwar.com Original

"Add to that fact that 40 different countries are now the targets of US sanctions and there is a powerful constituency to oppose the thuggish economic tactics of the US."

If Republicans take control of the House and Senate in November and decide to impeach, convict, and remove Joe from office...

 

[georgephillip]

Why did the Violent Mob drive the President out of office? The people wanted EU Membership

What percentage of the PEOPLE wanted IMF conditionalities inflicted on their economy?

The IMF connection with the Ukraine crisis | MR Online

"The IMF, as is well-known, 'opens up' economies around the world for the penetration of metropolitan capital by making them 'investor-friendly' through the adoption of a host of anti-working class and anti-people ('austerity') measures; and such 'opening up' typically involves the taking over of natural resources of the countries and also their land areas by metropolitan capital.

"The mechanism that the IMF typically uses towards this end is the imposition of 'conditionalities' for giving loans to countries that are in need of balance of payments support."

 

[georgephillip]

Did you discuss the lies told by Russia since the invasion? No, again, not in the memo.

How many lies has Joe Biden told over his fifty years in US politics?
More than Russia?
Did you swallow the whopper about Snake Island?
It will be years before the lies from both sides are sorted out, and if you believe otherwise, you probably think the US is one of the "good guys."

 

[georgephillip]

The people didn’t want that. The people responded by rioting. They would not be sent home, they didn’t want anything to do with the new Soviet.

And that gave Victoria Nuland license to pick Ukraine's next Prime Minister? Ukraine is the most corrupt state in Europe as Joe and Hunter Biden both well know.

They also knew Ukraine's long history with right-wing fanatics, and they put that knowledge to good use in driving a duly elected president from office in 2014.

Nationalism and fascism in Ukraine: A historical overview

"After independence in 1991, Ukraine, like the rest of the former Soviet Union, saw far-right groups springing up like mushrooms. These ultra-right forces were encouraged by the imperialist powers and the Ukrainian state."

 

[SavannahMann]

How many lies has Joe Biden told over his fifty years in US politics?
More than Russia?
Did you swallow the whopper about Snake Island?
It will be years before the lies from both sides are sorted out, and if you believe otherwise, you probably think the US is one of the "good guys."

Deflection. Why not answer the question about Russian Lies in a thread about how Russia is justified in a war for imperialist gains?

 

[georgephillip]

Now, we come to modern day. For some reason, the Ukrainian Government, and people, wanted the Ukrainian Territory, their own land, under their own control. Outrageous I know.

You don't appear to know much about Ukraine or its various ethnic demographics:
File:Ethnolingusitic map of ukraine.png - Wikimedia Commons

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/major-ethnic-groups-of-the-ukraine.html#:~:text=Roughly%2077.5%25%20of%20Ukraine's%20population,Poles%2C%20Jews%2C%20and%20Armenians.

"Ethnic divisions in Ukraine go back to the imperial period when regional borders were heavily disputed by Russia, Austro-Hungary, and the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.

"Southeast Ukraine has historically been populated by ethnic Russians and Russian-speaking Ukrainians, with close cultural and economic ties to Russia.

"Much of western Ukraine was part of Habsburg Austria until 1918; while other regions were brought into Ukraine after World War II, and the area maintains strong ties with Europe.

"Roughly 77.5% of Ukraine's population identify as ethnic Ukrainians.

"The second largest nationality group are Russians, accounting for 17.2% of the population."

In 2014 Russian-speaking Ukrainians objected to a US-supported coup that drove a corrupt, yet duly elected, president from office. They were also unhappy about neo-Nazis threatening and killing Russians as traitors to "their" country.

If you find yourself on the same side as white supremacists, you should probably think again.

 

[georgephillip]

There has been nothing but lies, and excuses from Russia, and denouncing the response to these actions, is insane. It is bullshit. Plain and simple.

Putin is facing an existential threat on its western border that has been 30 years in the making. Over that time NATO has expanded to Russia's borders in spite of warnings coming from elite US statesmen like George Kennan. The US has flooded Ukraine with surplus weapons and given training to right-wing fanatics in their use. Putin's lies pale in comparison to Bidens and other apologists for fighting Russia to the last drop of Ukrainian blood.

 

[Ringo]

 

[SavannahMann]

Putin is facing an existential threat on its western border that has been 30 years in the making. Over that time NATO has expanded to Russia's borders in spite of warnings coming from elite US statesmen like George Kennan. The US has flooded Ukraine with surplus weapons and given training to right-wing fanatics in their use. Putin's lies pale in comparison to Bidens and other apologists for fighting Russia to the last drop of Ukrainian blood.

Oh Bullshit. NATO had become little more than a Coffee Club. US Troops in Germany had been drawn down to 30,000. Trump ordered a further reduction by 10,000.

We haven’t run a Reforger mission since the Wall fell.

The troops were not training together. The Commanders were not even doing basic map drill style combined training. NATO was not a threat. And the claim that it was while also being underfunded and ignored for training budgets is laughable.

The real threat Putin faced was economic. Nations he believed should be in his sphere of influence were instead siding with European Union nations and adapting the Euro as their currency.

Putin is nothing more than another in the nearly endless line of Russian Dictators. From the Czar they went to the Soviet Premier. From there to Putin.

Just another thug who wants to stomp on anyone who chooses freedom over blind obedience.

 

[Silver Cat]

Deflection. Why not answer the question about Russian Lies in a thread about how Russia is justified in a war for imperialist gains?

Actually, Russia use usual western narrative of justification:
1) Joining NATO is a treat for Russia - US justification for Cuba -1961-62.
2) Ukrainian WMD programs - US justification for Iraq-2003.
3) Ukrainian regime is not democratic - Sirya and Libya.
4) Ukrainian genocide of ethnic minorities - Serbia -1999.
5) Ukrainian support of terrorism in Russian - Afghanistan-2001.

 

[FA_Q2]

Oh Bullshit. NATO had become little more than a Coffee Club. US Troops in Germany had been drawn down to 30,000. Trump ordered a further reduction by 10,000.

We haven’t run a Reforger mission since the Wall fell.

The troops were not training together. The Commanders were not even doing basic map drill style combined training. NATO was not a threat. And the claim that it was while also being underfunded and ignored for training budgets is laughable.

The real threat Putin faced was economic. Nations he believed should be in his sphere of influence were instead siding with European Union nations and adapting the Euro as their currency.

Putin is nothing more than another in the nearly endless line of Russian Dictators. From the Czar they went to the Soviet Premier. From there to Putin.

Just another thug who wants to stomp on anyone who chooses freedom over blind obedience.

It is telling how openly some here support what is essentially a dictator attempting to conquer a democratic nation.

The simple fact that Russia is seeking to actually control Ukraine rather than stabilizing it and is obviously willing to kill civilians indiscriminately to do so is enough in and of itself to recognize the problems with Russia's invasion.

 

[SavannahMann]

Actually, Russia use usual western narrative of justification:
1) Joining NATO is a treat for Russia - US justification for Cuba -1961-62.

Cuba was authorized by the International body with authority over the area. The Organization of American States.

TWE Remembers: The OAS Endorses a Quarantine of Cuba (Cuban Missile Crisis, Day Eight)

The first week of the Cuban missile crisis played out in secret. President John F. Kennedy and his advisers quietly evaluated the results of the U-2 overflights and formulated a response. But on Tues…

www.cfr.org

2) Ukrainian WMD programs - US justification for Iraq-2003.

And again authority was granted by an international body. It wasn’t done on a whim, and was not done based upon lies. We were wrong, but being wrong is not the same as lying. If I tell you that the Moon is made of Cheese, and I pass a lie detector test, I am wrong, the moon is not made of cheese. But I am telling you the truth to the best of my knowledge.

United Nations Security Council Resolution 1441 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So it is still apples and oranges isn’t it?

It is like saying the Judge once patted a woman on the behind, and that is why he can’t sit in judgement over you now while you are charged with Rape.

 

[Ringo]

The United States has been acting according to the same pattern for the last 30 years - countries that may become dangerous to the United States in any region in the future turn into a field of military operations and are divided into parts. Of course, in the name of freedom and democracy.

 

[Ringo]

It is telling how openly some here support what is essentially a dictator attempting to conquer a democratic nation.

Do you mean that if Hitler was elected, then Nazi Germany was democratic? Fuck, what idiots you have to live with on the same planet...

 

[SavannahMann]

Do you mean that if Hitler was elected, then Nazi Germany was democratic? Fuck, what idiots you have to live with on the same planet...

Well your analogy might be right. If.

If for example Hitler did not set out on a war of conquest. Then the world would not have destroyed Germany. But Hitler did set out on a war of conquest didn’t he?

Just as Putin has. Russia took over Georgia when they wanted freedom from Moscow.