frigidweirdo
Diamond Member
- Mar 7, 2014
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Freedom of speech means.... free speech.
But what does it actually mean?
foreignpolicy.com
I watched this video, the German woman (living somewhere in Ohio I think) talks about JD Vance's trip to Munich where he said "In Britain, and across Europe, free speech, I fear, is in retreat."
He gives some examples of freedom of speech in retreat.
"A little over two years ago, the British government charged Adam Smith-Connor, a 51-year-old physiotherapist and an army veteran, with the heinous crime of standing 50 meters from an abortion clinic and silently praying for three minutes—not obstructing anyone, not interacting with anyone, just silently praying on his own. "
"I look to Sweden, where, two weeks ago, the government convicted a Christian activist for participating in Quran burnings that resulted in his friend’s murder."
"I look to Brussels, where EU commiss—commissars warn citizens that they intend to shut down social media during times of civil unrest the moment they spot what they’ve judged to be, quote, “hateful content.”"
The US view of freedom of speech is that you can say anything you want and there are no responsibilities connected with freedom of speech. It is free, there are a few limits, but not many at all.
In Europe there seems to be a more pragmatic approach. The world is changing, the internet and social media is making sure of that. Europe seems to be worried that freedom of speech can be used to destroy freedom of speech. This is a huge problem for everyone in the "free world".
In the Youtube video about 11 minutes in, the German woman talks about the German constitution which gives everyone the freedom of speech, as long as it doesn't violate someone's "personal honor".
Within this there is "insult", "malicious gossip" and "defamation".
So, you can be imprisoned for up to one year for "insulting" someone. This is in the German Constitution which was adopted in 1949. So, for Vance to say freedom of speech is in retreat is ignorance on the fact that this has existed for 75 years and more.
This does not mean if someone insults you, that you will end up in prison. 200,000 cases of insult were dealt with in Germany in 2023 according to the article below.
www.thegermanreview.de
Here's an example
"The scientist, who advised the government on its lockdown policies, was staying on a campsite when two other campers recognised him and called him a “mass murderer” and “a criminal.” In the subsequent trial, the judge found that the insults had demeaned Drosten and issued fines of over €1,000."
So, they insulted him, and he took them to court, they got fine a thousand Euros and did not go to prison.
However the funny was is this:
"Late night host Jan Böhmermann read out rhymes that alleged that Erdogan had sex with goats, took pleasure in beating little girls and had private parts that “stink like döner and are even worse than a pig’s fart.”"
Essentially Erdogan complained, but Merkel got it so he wasn't prosecuted for it, even though it could have been 5 years in prison (because Erdogan is a head of state).
Then there's this:
"A 2021 law on hate speech created a new category of crime called “insulting political figures.” Handing special privileges to politicians, the law allowed for prison sentences of up to three years in prison for people who insult holders of public offices. "
"Interestingly, prosecutors almost never seem to bring charges."
But, clearly the laws in Germany COULD be used by someone (perhaps like Hitler) to silence people.
So where is the balance?
In the UK you have people locked up for inciting violence. In the US you don't.
Where is the line at which you're protecting freedom of speech by not letting it get out of hand, not allowing countries like China and Russia to manipulate the masses, but allow the people of the country to say what they want?
But what does it actually mean?
The Speech That Stunned Europe
Read U.S. Vice President J.D. Vance’s remarks at the Munich Security Conference.
foreignpolicy.com
I watched this video, the German woman (living somewhere in Ohio I think) talks about JD Vance's trip to Munich where he said "In Britain, and across Europe, free speech, I fear, is in retreat."
He gives some examples of freedom of speech in retreat.
"A little over two years ago, the British government charged Adam Smith-Connor, a 51-year-old physiotherapist and an army veteran, with the heinous crime of standing 50 meters from an abortion clinic and silently praying for three minutes—not obstructing anyone, not interacting with anyone, just silently praying on his own. "
"I look to Sweden, where, two weeks ago, the government convicted a Christian activist for participating in Quran burnings that resulted in his friend’s murder."
"I look to Brussels, where EU commiss—commissars warn citizens that they intend to shut down social media during times of civil unrest the moment they spot what they’ve judged to be, quote, “hateful content.”"
The US view of freedom of speech is that you can say anything you want and there are no responsibilities connected with freedom of speech. It is free, there are a few limits, but not many at all.
In Europe there seems to be a more pragmatic approach. The world is changing, the internet and social media is making sure of that. Europe seems to be worried that freedom of speech can be used to destroy freedom of speech. This is a huge problem for everyone in the "free world".
In the Youtube video about 11 minutes in, the German woman talks about the German constitution which gives everyone the freedom of speech, as long as it doesn't violate someone's "personal honor".
Within this there is "insult", "malicious gossip" and "defamation".
So, you can be imprisoned for up to one year for "insulting" someone. This is in the German Constitution which was adopted in 1949. So, for Vance to say freedom of speech is in retreat is ignorance on the fact that this has existed for 75 years and more.
This does not mean if someone insults you, that you will end up in prison. 200,000 cases of insult were dealt with in Germany in 2023 according to the article below.
Why insults are a criminal offense in Germany
Fun fact: call someone a ‘moron’ in Germany and you could, theoretically, end up in jail.
www.thegermanreview.de
Here's an example
"The scientist, who advised the government on its lockdown policies, was staying on a campsite when two other campers recognised him and called him a “mass murderer” and “a criminal.” In the subsequent trial, the judge found that the insults had demeaned Drosten and issued fines of over €1,000."
So, they insulted him, and he took them to court, they got fine a thousand Euros and did not go to prison.
However the funny was is this:
"Late night host Jan Böhmermann read out rhymes that alleged that Erdogan had sex with goats, took pleasure in beating little girls and had private parts that “stink like döner and are even worse than a pig’s fart.”"
Essentially Erdogan complained, but Merkel got it so he wasn't prosecuted for it, even though it could have been 5 years in prison (because Erdogan is a head of state).
Then there's this:
"A 2021 law on hate speech created a new category of crime called “insulting political figures.” Handing special privileges to politicians, the law allowed for prison sentences of up to three years in prison for people who insult holders of public offices. "
"Interestingly, prosecutors almost never seem to bring charges."
But, clearly the laws in Germany COULD be used by someone (perhaps like Hitler) to silence people.
So where is the balance?
In the UK you have people locked up for inciting violence. In the US you don't.
Where is the line at which you're protecting freedom of speech by not letting it get out of hand, not allowing countries like China and Russia to manipulate the masses, but allow the people of the country to say what they want?
