Do gods exist?

[Delta4Embassy]

Episode of "Through the Wormhole" was about "what is nothing?" Point was made that once we give something a name, it's something, thus "nothing" is something called nothing. So doesn't God exist once we name it, give it personality and attributes, etc.? The wormhole doc explained how a true and perfect nothing is scientifically impossible. There's always something in any point in space. So how much does God have to encompass before we agree it exists in at least some way? We murder for God, die for God, how much more "real" does God need to be?

 

[Mad Scientist]

Pretty easy to post the video so a more informed discussion could be had rather than just trust that you got it right.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zGbrsMlCII]Through The Wormhole - S05E01 - Is God an Alien Concept? - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Steven_R]

Episode of "Through the Wormhole" was about "what is nothing?" Point was made that once we give something a name, it's something, thus "nothing" is something called nothing. So doesn't God exist once we name it, give it personality and attributes, etc.? The wormhole doc explained how a true and perfect nothing is scientifically impossible. There's always something in any point in space. So how much does God have to encompass before we agree it exists in at least some way? We murder for God, die for God, how much more "real" does God need to be?

I have no data either way concerning the existence of god(s), although I suspect that if any god(s) do exist it would be something akin to what the Spinoza's God is. In any event the God of the Bible is just mythology the same way as Ra, Zeus, Odin, and a thousand other extinct Gods are.

 

[The Irish Ram]

If the God of the Bible is a myth, then the men who wrote the Bible could predict the future. And if they could then there is no reason why you can't. The God of the Bible told us that Israel would
become a nation in one day. Then it did.

Tell me who will be our next vice president........

 

[Mad Scientist]

If the God of the Bible is a myth, then the men who wrote the Bible could predict the future. And if they could then there is no reason why you can't. The God of the Bible told us that Israel would
become a nation in one day. Then it did.

Tell me who will be our next vice president........

I guess most people think the Bible was written all at one time. They don't believe me when I say all the books were written over a period of about 1200 years (edit: 1600 years). And yes, there were many events that were prophesied.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Episode of "Through the Wormhole" was about "what is nothing?" Point was made that once we give something a name, it's something, thus "nothing" is something called nothing. So doesn't God exist once we name it, give it personality and attributes, etc.? The wormhole doc explained how a true and perfect nothing is scientifically impossible. There's always something in any point in space. So how much does God have to encompass before we agree it exists in at least some way? We murder for God, die for God, how much more "real" does God need to be?

I have no data either way concerning the existence of god(s), although I suspect that if any god(s) do exist it would be something akin to what the Spinoza's God is. In any event the God of the Bible is just mythology the same way as Ra, Zeus, Odin, and a thousand other extinct Gods are.

Sure, but all those other deities are "real" in the same way. We either already know who they are, or could easily find out. So how real do things have to be before they're real enough?

Is Bigfoot real? We all know what I'm talking about using just the name right. Just because we don't have one on ice to go and look at doesn't mean it isn't therefore real.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

If the God of the Bible is a myth, then the men who wrote the Bible could predict the future. And if they could then there is no reason why you can't. The God of the Bible told us that Israel would
become a nation in one day. Then it did.

Tell me who will be our next vice president........

I guess most people think the Bible was written all at one time. They don't believe me when I say all the books were written over a period of about 1200 years (edit: 1600 years). And yes, there were many events that were prophesied.

Prophecy isn't prediction. A prophecy has no 'due date' and is deliberately left open-ended so given any long enough expanse of time will seem to have come true. But if I say And in the dark times, the Sun will expand and consume the world in fire." That's not prophecy unless I say when, and just because the Sun goes into a red giant phase in about 4 billion years doesn't mean I have any kind of remarkable insight.

 

[Indeependent]

If the God of the Bible is a myth, then the men who wrote the Bible could predict the future. And if they could then there is no reason why you can't. The God of the Bible told us that Israel would
become a nation in one day. Then it did.

Tell me who will be our next vice president........

I guess most people think the Bible was written all at one time. They don't believe me when I say all the books were written over a period of about 1200 years (edit: 1600 years). And yes, there were many events that were prophesied.

The Torah itself was probably written over the 40 years in the desert.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Thinking of it another way:If the Bible's god is real, isn't our debating if it is a big waste of everyone's time? We'll all find out eventually, and the disbelievers will pay, and the believers will be rewarded. But if that's the case, why argue the point? Especially if a believer.

 

[The Irish Ram]

But Christ wasn't real in some sort of way. He is well documented. He wasn't lying to us about the Father, and came back after being crucified to prove it. What deity do you know of that has brought the dead to life?

 

[Delta4Embassy]

But Christ wasn't real in some sort of way. He is well documented. He wasn't lying to us about the Father, and came back after being crucified to prove it. What deity do you know of that has brought the dead to life?

Egyptian god Osiris comes to mind (being a Stargate SG-1 fan heh.)
The phoenix bird from whatever that's from.

And googling for more,
Resurrection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ressurection isn't unique to Christianity nor even unusual in religious systems and beliefs.

Everything Christianity claims about Jesus is found in prior religions about their central or primary figures.

The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors

"16 other religions' "messiahs""

 

[The Irish Ram]

If the God of the Bible is a myth, then the men who wrote the Bible could predict the future. And if they could then there is no reason why you can't. The God of the Bible told us that Israel would
become a nation in one day. Then it did.

Tell me who will be our next vice president........

I guess most people think the Bible was written all at one time. They don't believe me when I say all the books were written over a period of about 1200 years (edit: 1600 years). And yes, there were many events that were prophesied.

Prophecy isn't prediction. A prophecy has no 'due date' and is deliberately left open-ended so given any long enough expanse of time will seem to have come true. But if I say And in the dark times, the Sun will expand and consume the world in fire." That's not prophecy unless I say when, and just because the Sun goes into a red giant phase in about 4 billion years doesn't mean I have any kind of remarkable insight.

You couldn't be more wrong, Delta. Prophecy is precise. What is vague or open ended about the Jews being told by God that they were going to become slaves for seventy years? Then becoming slaves for 70 years and then going home after seventy years?

Here, let's start with a few of the prophesies about Christ. What is vague about these:
Born in Bethlehem
The exact date of Palm Sunday
Hung on wood. Hands and feet pierced (prophesy made 1,000 years before the existence of crucifixion)
side pierced
From the tribe of Judah
They would call Him Immanuel
called a Nazarene
buried with the rich
^
There. 8 prophesies that Jesus had no control over. So, 1st. point out vague, and 2nd. put your statistics hat on, because no one but the Son of God could have fulfilled 8 of them.

According to MIT the probability of one man fulfilling 8 of the prophesies would be 1 in 1 trillion.

The chance of any one man fulfilling 48 prophecies about Him is one in ten to the 157th power.
If you took one of the smallest things we know, electrons, and filled a cubic inch with them, and tried to count them, it would take you (at 250 per minute) 19,000 times 19,000 times 19,000 years to count them.
Now mark one of them and thoroughly stir it back into the other electrons. What chance does a blind man have of finding the right electron?

The blind man has the same chance of finding the marked electron as one man's chance of fulfilling the prophecies about Christ without Him being the Son of God!

 

[THE LIGHT]

Thinking of it another way:If the Bible's god is real, isn't our debating if it is a big waste of everyone's time? We'll all find out eventually, and the disbelievers will pay, and the believers will be rewarded. But if that's the case, why argue the point? Especially if a believer.

Why argue the point? For the same reason that anyone would argue the point about any other eminent danger.

If someone was going to be stung by a bee, wouldn't you tell them?
If someone was going to be run over by a car or a train, wouldn't you tell them?
If someone was going to fall off a cliff, wouldn't you tell them?
If someone was going to spend eternity in Hell, wouldn't you tell them?

 

[THE LIGHT]

If the God of the Bible is a myth, then the men who wrote the Bible could predict the future. And if they could then there is no reason why you can't. The God of the Bible told us that Israel would
become a nation in one day. Then it did.

Tell me who will be our next vice president........

God writes history before it happens. Just ask Cyrus the Great.

 

[Politico]

No there is no proof they do. But that is irrelevant. They are necessary. Believing in them keeps the weak minded of the world from losing hope and running amok. I fully support anything that keeps them from self destructing.

 

[PratchettFan]

Thinking of it another way:If the Bible's god is real, isn't our debating if it is a big waste of everyone's time? We'll all find out eventually, and the disbelievers will pay, and the believers will be rewarded. But if that's the case, why argue the point? Especially if a believer.

Why argue the point? For the same reason that anyone would argue the point about any other eminent danger.

If someone was going to be stung by a bee, wouldn't you tell them?
If someone was going to be run over by a car or a train, wouldn't you tell them?
If someone was going to fall off a cliff, wouldn't you tell them?
If someone was going to spend eternity in Hell, wouldn't you tell them?

No. I might point out a bee, a car or a cliff to someone. But it would be arrogant of me to presume to tell them what was going to happen on the assumption that I knew how to handle their lives better than they did.

There really is a difference between you telling me what you believe and you telling me what I should believe.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Politico, One did. And the relevance is, One did. The proof is accuracy.

As one of the "weak minded" what prevented me from running amok before I gave my life to Christ?

 

[sealybobo]

Episode of "Through the Wormhole" was about "what is nothing?" Point was made that once we give something a name, it's something, thus "nothing" is something called nothing. So doesn't God exist once we name it, give it personality and attributes, etc.? The wormhole doc explained how a true and perfect nothing is scientifically impossible. There's always something in any point in space. So how much does God have to encompass before we agree it exists in at least some way? We murder for God, die for God, how much more "real" does God need to be?

So then Santa is real too.

The standard of evidence required to prove a god’s existence is immediately more than any personal anecdote, witness testimony, ancient book or reported miracle – none of which can be considered extraordinarily reliable.

Every conceivable argument, every imaginable piece of evidence for god is not without some fatal flaw or more likely explanation which precludes it from being used as definitive proof. Note:

There is, however, a simple answer to this question: God is what it would take to convince an atheist. An omniscient god would know the exact standard of evidence required to convince any atheist of its existence and, being omnipotent, it would also be able to immediately produce this evidence. If it wanted to, a god could conceivably change the brain chemistry of any individual in order to compel them to believe. It could even restructure the entire universe in such a way as to make non-belief impossible.

In short, a god actually proving its own existence is what would convince any atheist of said god’s existence.

 

[sealybobo]

Politico, One did. And the relevance is, One did. The proof is accuracy.

As one of the "weak minded" what prevented me from running amok before I gave my life to Christ?

Someone could have told you about karma. Hard to argue with karma.

And, if I was "running amok" like you when I was younger, a lie like this I would have never swallowed.

Maybe I am not against teaching bad kids about god. If nothing else is getting through to them, maybe some of them would benefit from being told this lie. I'm of the position that a lie is a lie no matter how good it is, and that we don't need this lie, but maybe some bad people in prison do need it.

OR, do they need social bonding and to learn how to socialize. I think the more I type the more I'm going to come back to my position that a lie isn't necessary.

If you were a bad kid, maybe your parents should have spent more time with you. Instead of trying to invent an imaginary baby sitter who watches your kids when you should be, why don't you instead watch your kids.

Lots of atheists raise good kids because they spend time with them and they don't fill their heads with stuff they should know isn't true once they enter adulthood. Anyone who does is a little slow imo.

 

[PratchettFan]

Episode of "Through the Wormhole" was about "what is nothing?" Point was made that once we give something a name, it's something, thus "nothing" is something called nothing. So doesn't God exist once we name it, give it personality and attributes, etc.? The wormhole doc explained how a true and perfect nothing is scientifically impossible. There's always something in any point in space. So how much does God have to encompass before we agree it exists in at least some way? We murder for God, die for God, how much more "real" does God need to be?

So then Santa is real too.

The standard of evidence required to prove a god’s existence is immediately more than any personal anecdote, witness testimony, ancient book or reported miracle – none of which can be considered extraordinarily reliable.

Every conceivable argument, every imaginable piece of evidence for god is not without some fatal flaw or more likely explanation which precludes it from being used as definitive proof. Note:

There is, however, a simple answer to this question: God is what it would take to convince an atheist. An omniscient god would know the exact standard of evidence required to convince any atheist of its existence and, being omnipotent, it would also be able to immediately produce this evidence. If it wanted to, a god could conceivably change the brain chemistry of any individual in order to compel them to believe. It could even restructure the entire universe in such a way as to make non-belief impossible.

In short, a god actually proving its own existence is what would convince any atheist of said god’s existence.

Of course, that presumes such a god wants you to know or cares if you know or not.