Do gods exist?

[polarbear]

Episode of "Through the Wormhole" was about "what is nothing?" Point was made that once we give something a name, it's something, thus "nothing" is something called nothing. So doesn't God exist once we name it, give it personality and attributes, etc.? The wormhole doc explained how a true and perfect nothing is scientifically impossible. There's always something in any point in space. So how much does God have to encompass before we agree it exists in at least some way? We murder for God, die for God, how much more "real" does God need to be?

So then Santa is real too.

The standard of evidence required to prove a god’s existence is immediately more than any personal anecdote, witness testimony, ancient book or reported miracle – none of which can be considered extraordinarily reliable.

Every conceivable argument, every imaginable piece of evidence for god is not without some fatal flaw or more likely explanation which precludes it from being used as definitive proof. Note:

There is, however, a simple answer to this question: God is what it would take to convince an atheist. An omniscient god would know the exact standard of evidence required to convince any atheist of its existence and, being omnipotent, it would also be able to immediately produce this evidence. If it wanted to, a god could conceivably change the brain chemistry of any individual in order to compel them to believe. It could even restructure the entire universe in such a way as to make non-belief impossible.

In short, a god actually proving its own existence is what would convince any atheist of said god’s existence.

So why do all these people keep screaming "Oh my God" while they record a tornado video?
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLMe5rgNZeQ&feature=kp"]'Oh My God! Tornado! - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwxKFHZigRw"]Jaw-dropping, violent tornado hurling deadly softball hail! June 22, 2012 - YouTube[/ame]

Funny, all it takes is a tornado and all kinds of people instantly believe in God.
I bet even people who laughed at George Carlin`s jokes about God start whining "Oh my God" if they think they are in mortal danger.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPOfurmrjxo"]George Carlin on Religion and God - YouTube[/ame]
Shouldn`t they scream something else?
Like "holy shit" or "holy f###" ?
But they don`t
There is nothing wrong with believing in God, it`s normal human nature.
We are not invulnerable and as long as that`s so people will scream for God to come to their aid when the situation gets hairy.

 

[Ina]

The Powers That Be
ARE
Regardless of Designation

 

[sealybobo]

Episode of "Through the Wormhole" was about "what is nothing?" Point was made that once we give something a name, it's something, thus "nothing" is something called nothing. So doesn't God exist once we name it, give it personality and attributes, etc.? The wormhole doc explained how a true and perfect nothing is scientifically impossible. There's always something in any point in space. So how much does God have to encompass before we agree it exists in at least some way? We murder for God, die for God, how much more "real" does God need to be?

So then Santa is real too.

The standard of evidence required to prove a god’s existence is immediately more than any personal anecdote, witness testimony, ancient book or reported miracle – none of which can be considered extraordinarily reliable.

Every conceivable argument, every imaginable piece of evidence for god is not without some fatal flaw or more likely explanation which precludes it from being used as definitive proof. Note:

There is, however, a simple answer to this question: God is what it would take to convince an atheist. An omniscient god would know the exact standard of evidence required to convince any atheist of its existence and, being omnipotent, it would also be able to immediately produce this evidence. If it wanted to, a god could conceivably change the brain chemistry of any individual in order to compel them to believe. It could even restructure the entire universe in such a way as to make non-belief impossible.

In short, a god actually proving its own existence is what would convince any atheist of said god’s existence.

So why do all these people keep screaming "Oh my God" while they record a tornado video?
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLMe5rgNZeQ&feature=kp"]'Oh My God! Tornado! - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwxKFHZigRw"]Jaw-dropping, violent tornado hurling deadly softball hail! June 22, 2012 - YouTube[/ame]

Funny, all it takes is a tornado and all kinds of people instantly believe in God.
I bet even people who laughed at George Carlin`s jokes about God start whining "Oh my God" if they think they are in mortal danger.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPOfurmrjxo"]George Carlin on Religion and God - YouTube[/ame]
Shouldn`t they scream something else?
Like "holy shit" or "holy f###" ?
But they don`t
There is nothing wrong with believing in God, it`s normal human nature.
We are not invulnerable and as long as that`s so people will scream for God to come to their aid when the situation gets hairy.

Very true. We believe because we have a healthy fear of the unknown.

But I won't be changing my mind when I die. As much as I would like to believe there is a god I can't. At least not one that cares and sends people to heaven and hell. I know that is just wishful thinking.

BUT, I do suspect that if there is a god and he does care, he'll care more what kind of person I was than if I believed Gismys and her pastor. And since I 100% don't buy Gismys' stories about god, I feel pretty confident that believing in a god isn't necessary.

 

[sealybobo]

The Powers That Be
ARE
Regardless of Designation

I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.” – Carl Sagan

“I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” - Mark Twain

 

[polarbear]

So then Santa is real too.

The standard of evidence required to prove a god’s existence is immediately more than any personal anecdote, witness testimony, ancient book or reported miracle – none of which can be considered extraordinarily reliable.

Every conceivable argument, every imaginable piece of evidence for god is not without some fatal flaw or more likely explanation which precludes it from being used as definitive proof. Note:

There is, however, a simple answer to this question: God is what it would take to convince an atheist. An omniscient god would know the exact standard of evidence required to convince any atheist of its existence and, being omnipotent, it would also be able to immediately produce this evidence. If it wanted to, a god could conceivably change the brain chemistry of any individual in order to compel them to believe. It could even restructure the entire universe in such a way as to make non-belief impossible.

In short, a god actually proving its own existence is what would convince any atheist of said god’s existence.

So why do all these people keep screaming "Oh my God" while they record a tornado video?
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLMe5rgNZeQ&feature=kp"]'Oh My God! Tornado! - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwxKFHZigRw"]Jaw-dropping, violent tornado hurling deadly softball hail! June 22, 2012 - YouTube[/ame]

Funny, all it takes is a tornado and all kinds of people instantly believe in God.
I bet even people who laughed at George Carlin`s jokes about God start whining "Oh my God" if they think they are in mortal danger.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPOfurmrjxo"]George Carlin on Religion and God - YouTube[/ame]
Shouldn`t they scream something else?
Like "holy shit" or "holy f###" ?
But they don`t
There is nothing wrong with believing in God, it`s normal human nature.
We are not invulnerable and as long as that`s so people will scream for God to come to their aid when the situation gets hairy.

Very true. We believe because we have a healthy fear of the unknown.

But I won't be changing my mind when I die. As much as I would like to believe there is a god I can't. At least not one that cares and sends people to heaven and hell. I know that is just wishful thinking.

BUT, I do suspect that if there is a god and he does care, he'll care more what kind of person I was than if I believed Gismys and her pastor. And since I 100% don't buy Gismys' stories about god, I feel pretty confident that believing in a god isn't necessary.

I can respect that. I have met some pastors who confided to me privately that they have their doubts, but in any case it is better if we carry on our affairs as if we were certain that there is a God.
I don`t hold people in high esteem when they do good deeds mostly for the reason that they want to be seen doing that, either by the public if they want to get elected, or by God if they are not quite as important.
Either kind expects to get rewarded for what they should have done anyway in order to qualify as a decent human being.
Personally I have been rewarded with way more than just my share of "good luck", because I should have been dead more than once.
Some of these circumstances how I survived (for example) being in a building that collapsed on top of me when ~50 000 gallons of jet fuel went up in flames are beyond belief and I do admit that I did thank God for it even though I think George Carlin is quite funny.
But I do draw the line when some people, especially those who claim to be tolerant ridicule others who firmly believe in God.
An atheist who belittles the faithful does not have bragging rights to superior intelligence, but does have the right to brag about himself as so many of them do and yet most of them would panic if it looks as if they are about to die. They piss their pants and scream "Oh my God" instead of acting as rational as they claim to be

 

[polarbear]

The Powers That Be
ARE
Regardless of Designation

I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.” – Carl Sagan

“I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” - Mark Twain

I know quite a few things that suggest it`s not just wishful thinking.
1.) in a physical sense there is your genetic code which you inherited from your ancestors
2.) in a spiritual sense there is their legacy and what they stood for.

It has helped see me through some dire situations where I spent some thoughts on how my dad would have handled things if he were in my situation..and in a physical sense sometimes when there was no time to think it was exactly the right inate reflex which saved me from being toast.

Training does help, but there isn`t really any realistic training to cope with a true life threatening emergency, because while you train you are always aware that it`s just a simulation,...and that there is no chance that you`ll get killed.
So when in comes right down to it and it`s for real, then it`s number 1 and 2 from above which gives you the extra edge.

When I die much of that what made me different will live on in my kids the same way and like much of the software which was written on computers which have been scrapped long ago, but is still actively controlling quite a lot in the one I have today

And that`s how my soul`s afterlife will work, just like computer op-codes.
Both "evolved", but not by mere chance and both die only if they were not up to snuff.
I haven`t been to church for decades, but I don`t see anything wrong with the "software" legacy of Jesus Christ and what he preached to his Apostles.
Perhaps that`s the reason why it`s still alive and well 2000 years later

 

[PostmodernProph]

the erroneous contention that all atheists believe "God does not exist" we have to add that the intelligent atheist will acknowledge that there may, in fact, be "gods" that are unlike those described and worshipped by people through the many organized religions of this world.

of course atheists believe God does not exist......if you're ashamed to admit it, just don't call yourself an atheist....

the intelligent atheist will acknowledge that there may, in fact, be "gods"

so what you are saying is that if they are intelligent, atheists become agnostics?......

 

[polarbear]

the erroneous contention that all atheists believe "God does not exist" we have to add that the intelligent atheist will acknowledge that there may, in fact, be "gods" that are unlike those described and worshipped by people through the many organized religions of this world.

of course atheists believe God does not exist......if you're ashamed to admit it, just don't call yourself an atheist....

the intelligent atheist will acknowledge that there may, in fact, be "gods"

so what you are saying is that if they are intelligent, atheists become agnostics?......

I second that.
Atheists believe that God does not exist period!
That is as much a belief which can`t be verified (yet) by science as is the belief in God who could in theory exist.
On the other hand atheists have no trouble believing that wormholes exist even though there is no evidence other than they are theoretically possible.
Most atheists also readily accept that there is extraterrestrial intelligence within our galaxy even though we have no scientific proof (yet) that they do. The probability that they exist is quantified by the Drake equation which has been revised several times.Even Paul Horowitz who guaranteed that intelligent aliens exist within the milky way galaxy has reduced Drake`s "N" from Carl Sagan`s 1 million down to 1000.
And the longer SETI is listening the lower the Drake`s "N" gets.
Michael Shermer has "N" down to about 2.5 possible civilizations in our galaxy.
That`s pretty poor odds considering that our galaxy is estimated to have a stellar mass of 5.7 x 10^11 times our sun has some stars that are over 13 billion years old in it and so far the Fermi Paradox " If thousands of civilizations in the Milky Way galaxy, why haven't we detected them?" is just as valid as the atheists paradox,....if God exists why is there no proof?

But as I said in the opening line atheists don`t apply the same validation method for alien existence in our galaxy as they do for the existence of God and do so not just for our galaxy, but dismiss that possibility for the entire universe.
How "scientific" is that?

 

[Delta4Embassy]

You can't prove God doesn't exist if he doesn't exist. You can't prove a negative as they say. Nor could you ever. Such a proof requires knowledge encompassing the entire universe knowing every little that exists and everything that there is to know is known. That sort of knowledge would make YOU God. Best we can say with any reliability then is "we don't believe gods like our religions describe them exist." Relative to humanity I'm certain other evolved life would be 'as gods' relative to us, but all-powerful ghosts who defy the laws of physics? Probably not.

 

[The Irish Ram]

the erroneous contention that all atheists believe "God does not exist" we have to add that the intelligent atheist will acknowledge that there may, in fact, be "gods" that are unlike those described and worshipped by people through the many organized religions of this world.

If intelligent atheists acknowledge there may be gods, what on earth makes them think the only gods that may exist are not those described and worshiped by people through organized religions?

 

[Politico]

So why do all these people keep screaming "Oh my God" while they record a tornadovideo ?

The question is why do so many idiots stand under tornadoes getting their Youtube on? And why doesn't Darwin take care of more of them?