Does carrying a gun make you safer? No. In fact, right-to-carry laws increase violent crime

[Brain357]

Interesting study:

The way I try to frame it is, right-to-carry laws can increase crime, violent crime, by maybe 13 or 15% over a 10-year period. Some factors decrease crime, some factors increase crime. Increasing incarceration tends to push down crime, increasing police tends to push down crime, and allowing citizens to carry handguns tends to push up crime.

Does carrying a gun make you safer? No. In fact, right-to-carry laws increase violent crime

 

[Brain357]

Am I right that the right-to-carry laws started getting put into place as crime rates were already declining across the country?

Yes; essentially one thinks the Clinton administration as being the period of tremendous decline, and that was hurting gun sales dramatically. So the NRA was looking around for other ways to stimulate gun sales and managed to get a fair number of these right-to-carry laws passed during the Clinton years and successive years.

Permit holders do an amazing effectively job of arming criminals with their lost and stolen guns.

 

[Kat]

I call bs on that LA Times article. I know for a fact my brother would be dead if he never carried. He LEGALLY carried (s) a concealed weapon. Stopped at a gas station/store combo......guy walks up to my brother pointing a gun on him telling him to give his money, or he was going to shoot him.
My brother reached inside his vehicle and got his gun, and my brother shot the guy.


Turned out the guy was a known drug dealer. Police knew him the second they saw him. YES it was a horrible situation, and one my brother has had to live with and come to terms with for several years now. I doubt he has or ever will, but it was either my brother or the drug dealer. And yes, the dealer is dead. He was not carrying legally. He was a drug dealing thug. If my brother didn't have protection, he would be the dead one.

People easily can get illegal guns.

 

[Brain357]

I call bs on that LA Times article. I know for a fact my brother would be dead if he never carried. He LEGALLY carried (s) a concealed weapon. Stopped at a gas station/store combo......guy walks up to my brother pointing a gun on him telling him to give his money, or he was going to shoot him.
My brother reached inside his vehicle and got his gun, and my brother shot they guy.


Turned out the guy was a known drug dealer. Police knew him the second they saw him. YES it was a horrible situation, and one my brother has had to live with and come to terms with for several years now. I doubt he has or ever will, but it was either my brother or the drug dealer. And yes, the dealer is dead. He was not carrying legally. He was a drug dealing thug. If my brother didn't have protection, he would be the dead one.

People easily can get illegal guns.

Few people are killed by complete strangers. It was a robbery attempt, not a homicide.

 

[JoeMoma]

According to a "novel algorithm" -- hmmmmmmmmmm.

 

[SYTFE]

OF COURSE right to carry laws increase crime. Only a moron would think otherwise.

 

[PredFan]

Interesting study:

The way I try to frame it is, right-to-carry laws can increase crime, violent crime, by maybe 13 or 15% over a 10-year period. Some factors decrease crime, some factors increase crime. Increasing incarceration tends to push down crime, increasing police tends to push down crime, and allowing citizens to carry handguns tends to push up crime.

Does carrying a gun make you safer? No. In fact, right-to-carry laws increase violent crime

I have seen study after study that shows that crime goes down abruptly when concealed carry is instituted. So I wondered where the fuck you would find this bull shit and I only had to click on the link and there was the answer: a fake news site, the LA Times.

 

[Brain357]

According to a "novel algorithm" -- hmmmmmmmmmm.

We take that composite of other states and see what happened in that composite of other states after 1996. Then we’re comparing Texas against this composite of other states, because that composite was such a good match for identifying the impact, the pattern of crime prior to 1996.

Let’s compare it with what actually did happen in Texas after 1996, and the difference between those two numbers becomes your prediction of what the impact of Texas passing the right-to-carry law in 1996 was on violent crime.

What we found [was] that there tended to be a fairly substantial difference between those two numbers, such that it looked as though you saw about 10% to 15% higher levels of violent crime than you would have seen had you not adopted right to carry.

For some states, and Texas happened to be one of them, crime was trending down, and it just didn’t trend down nearly as much in this comparison group of states that had mimicked the pattern of Texas prior to 1996.

 

[Slash]

So, the majority of gun owners are: White. Married. Have Kids. Rural. Middle class
But the majority of violent crimes are: Minority. Single. No kids. Urban. Low income.

Remind me again how that works?

 

[Brain357]

Interesting study:

The way I try to frame it is, right-to-carry laws can increase crime, violent crime, by maybe 13 or 15% over a 10-year period. Some factors decrease crime, some factors increase crime. Increasing incarceration tends to push down crime, increasing police tends to push down crime, and allowing citizens to carry handguns tends to push up crime.

Does carrying a gun make you safer? No. In fact, right-to-carry laws increase violent crime

I have seen study after study that shows that crime goes down abruptly when concealed carry is instituted. So I wondered where the fuck you would find this bull shit and I only had to click on the link and there was the answer: a fake news site, the LA Times.

You will find all the studies claiming it goes down are done by the same person. And he's very questionable.

 

[Brain357]

So, the majority of gun owners are: White. Married. Have Kids. Rural. Middle class
But the majority of violent crimes are: Minority. Single. No kids. Urban. Low income.

Remind me again how that works?

Who do you think steals the guns?

 

[westwall]

Interesting study:

The way I try to frame it is, right-to-carry laws can increase crime, violent crime, by maybe 13 or 15% over a 10-year period. Some factors decrease crime, some factors increase crime. Increasing incarceration tends to push down crime, increasing police tends to push down crime, and allowing citizens to carry handguns tends to push up crime.

Does carrying a gun make you safer? No. In fact, right-to-carry laws increase violent crime

There are dozens of studies, all of which you have been shown, that refute this clearly biased "study".

 

[Brain357]

Interesting study:

The way I try to frame it is, right-to-carry laws can increase crime, violent crime, by maybe 13 or 15% over a 10-year period. Some factors decrease crime, some factors increase crime. Increasing incarceration tends to push down crime, increasing police tends to push down crime, and allowing citizens to carry handguns tends to push up crime.

Does carrying a gun make you safer? No. In fact, right-to-carry laws increase violent crime

There are dozens of studies, all of which you have been shown, that refute this clearly biased "study".

Those are studies all done by one shady character. Why is this clearly biased?

 

[Slash]

Who do you think steals the guns?

Criminals.

Criminals also steal money which is then used to buy drugs and guns. So good people shouldn't have money since having money that can be stolen leads to drugs and gun use and violent crime

Also law abiding people shouldn't have daughters, because if they chose to not have daughters, rape would decrease 10 fold at a minimum....

Did you know that if non-criminals stopped buying automobiles we could reduce the number of auto thefts in the US?

 

[JoeMoma]

Interesting study:

The way I try to frame it is, right-to-carry laws can increase crime, violent crime, by maybe 13 or 15% over a 10-year period. Some factors decrease crime, some factors increase crime. Increasing incarceration tends to push down crime, increasing police tends to push down crime, and allowing citizens to carry handguns tends to push up crime.

Does carrying a gun make you safer? No. In fact, right-to-carry laws increase violent crime

Just one shady character? Really?





There are dozens of studies, all of which you have been shown, that refute this clearly biased "study".

Those are studies all done by one shady character. Why is this clearly biased?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

More lies from the lying bunch of liberal asshats that think if they make up enough lies they will win something. FBI Crime Stats don't lie dumb ass.

 

[Slash]

Are you really making the point that criminals doing criminal acts isn't the cause, but law abiding people being victims of criminals rather is?

Stop the criminal. Michael Jordan and Nike didn't cause kids to get robbed and shot. Criminals wanting his shoes did.

 

[deannalw]

Interesting study:

The way I try to frame it is, right-to-carry laws can increase crime, violent crime, by maybe 13 or 15% over a 10-year period. Some factors decrease crime, some factors increase crime. Increasing incarceration tends to push down crime, increasing police tends to push down crime, and allowing citizens to carry handguns tends to push up crime.

Does carrying a gun make you safer? No. In fact, right-to-carry laws increase violent crime

I have seen study after study that shows that crime goes down abruptly when concealed carry is instituted. So I wondered where the fuck you would find this bull shit and I only had to click on the link and there was the answer: a fake news site, the LA Times.

You will find all the studies claiming it goes down are done by the same person. And he's very questionable.

Such a lie!

And your "study" is complete and total bullshit as well.

 

[Brain357]

Are you really making the point that criminals doing criminal acts isn't the cause, but law abiding people being victims of criminals rather is?

Stop the criminal. Michael Jordan and Nike didn't cause kids to get robbed and shot. Criminals wanting his shoes did.

From the link:
The image that comes to mind is guys who might in one instance have solved their disagreement with fists now have guns. Is that a fair image or is it exaggerating?

Well, I think that there are many ways in which right-to-carry laws cause problems. One is as you said, and there are some obvious examples just in the last couple of weeks. In one case, a guy in Pennsylvania was merging in traffic and an 18-year-old girl cut in front of him and enraged him, and he just took out his gun, which he had a concealed-carry permit for, and shot her in the head and just drove off – killed her.

Then a couple of days later, in Seattle, a guy was riding home in an Uber from a wedding, and he had had too much to drink, and he and his wife got into a heated argument and he just took out a gun and shot her in the head. I suspect both of these cases would not have happened had the guy not had a concealed carry permit. There wouldn’t have been a gun around, and you know if you get really angry carrying a gun, it’s more likely something bad will happen.

But there are also so many other ways in which carrying concealed handguns creates problems. One huge way is that guns are much more likely to be stolen when you’re taking them around town and walking around. We see this quite a bit in California over the last couple of years. A number of incidents in San Francisco got a lot of headlines when somebody left their gun in their car – a permit holder – and somebody breaks into the car and steals the gun and within a day or so, or even a number of hours, murders someone on the street.

So the one thing we know is that permit holders do an amazing effectively job of arming criminals with their lost and stolen guns.

That obviously causes a lot of problems. And then, you also cause a lot of problems for police, and anything that causes problems for police tends to make all crime go up, because the police are such an important force in restraining crime.

We’ve seen this with the Philando Castile case in Minneapolis. The guy was a permit-holder and as soon as the cop heard he was carrying a gun, you could see that he became much more nervous and ended up shooting Castile, because he thought he was reaching for the gun when he was in fact reaching for his driver’s license.

So I don’t think it’s any surprise that police in the United States kill a lot more people than police in other industrialized nations -- not that they have fewer criminals than we have; there are just many fewer people walking around with guns, and police feel a lot more nervous when they’re meeting angry people with guns than they would in England or France or Germany or Japan, where they’re meeting angry people, but the worst that’s going to happen is they’re carrying a knife.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Interesting study:

The way I try to frame it is, right-to-carry laws can increase crime, violent crime, by maybe 13 or 15% over a 10-year period. Some factors decrease crime, some factors increase crime. Increasing incarceration tends to push down crime, increasing police tends to push down crime, and allowing citizens to carry handguns tends to push up crime.

Does carrying a gun make you safer? No. In fact, right-to-carry laws increase violent crime

I think you are confusing right to carry with cities with some of the toughest gun laws in America that also have the highest crime and gun deaths.