Does carrying a gun make you safer? No. In fact, right-to-carry laws increase violent crime

[Brain357]

Interesting study:

The way I try to frame it is, right-to-carry laws can increase crime, violent crime, by maybe 13 or 15% over a 10-year period. Some factors decrease crime, some factors increase crime. Increasing incarceration tends to push down crime, increasing police tends to push down crime, and allowing citizens to carry handguns tends to push up crime.

Does carrying a gun make you safer? No. In fact, right-to-carry laws increase violent crime

I have seen study after study that shows that crime goes down abruptly when concealed carry is instituted. So I wondered where the fuck you would find this bull shit and I only had to click on the link and there was the answer: a fake news site, the LA Times.

You will find all the studies claiming it goes down are done by the same person. And he's very questionable.

Such a lie!

And your "study" is complete and total bullshit as well.

If you have studies not tied to the same guy please post them.

 

[Brain357]

Interesting study:

The way I try to frame it is, right-to-carry laws can increase crime, violent crime, by maybe 13 or 15% over a 10-year period. Some factors decrease crime, some factors increase crime. Increasing incarceration tends to push down crime, increasing police tends to push down crime, and allowing citizens to carry handguns tends to push up crime.

Does carrying a gun make you safer? No. In fact, right-to-carry laws increase violent crime

I think you are confusing right to carry with cities with some of the toughest gun laws in America that also have the highest crime and gun deaths.

You didn't read the link obviously.

 

[Penelope]

So, the majority of gun owners are: White. Married. Have Kids. Rural. Middle class
But the majority of violent crimes are: Minority. Single. No kids. Urban. Low income.

Remind me again how that works?

Apart from gangs I think its just the opposite.

 

[Slash]

The image that comes to mind is guys who might in one instance have solved their disagreement with fists now have guns. Is that a fair image or is it exaggerating?

Not really. Australia got a lot of props for reductions in violent crime when it put in it's draconian anti gun laws. Of course New Zealand in a very similar socioeconomic situation had the same exact violent crime reduction without any gun law changes.

Instead of punishing law abiding citizens for what criminals do, why not punish criminals harder, or work for social change that would reduce that threat.

I get your point. If we made it illegal in the USA to be gay or transexual, we would greatly reduce the criminal threats and acts against that group. They maybe suffer a little bit, but with thousands of attacks, I think it's for the better good right?

 

[Brain357]

The image that comes to mind is guys who might in one instance have solved their disagreement with fists now have guns. Is that a fair image or is it exaggerating?

Not really. Australia got a lot of props for reductions in violent crime when it put in it's draconian anti gun laws. Of course New Zealand in a very similar socioeconomic situation had the same exact violent crime reduction without any gun law changes.

Instead of punishing law abiding citizens for what criminals do, why not punish criminals harder, or work for social change that would reduce that threat.

I get your point. If we made it illegal in the USA to be gay or transexual, we would greatly reduce the criminal threats and acts against that group. They maybe suffer a little bit, but with thousands of attacks, I think it's for the better good right?

There sure are lots of examples of guns being used to settle disputes. We have a very high gun crime rate.

 

[Brain357]

Were there any findings that surprised you?

Yes. Whenever you do these analyses there are lots puzzles and surprises. I would have thought that the increase in murder would have been bigger than it was, although I suspect that part of the reason why the increase in murder was not as large as the increase in overall violent crime was that the police are better at restraining murder than they are at restraining overall violent crime. And the right-to-carry states hired a lot more police after they adopted these laws than other states.

But apparently the politicians realized fairly quickly that crime was showing upward pressure in the states that passed right-to-carry laws, and they responded to that by greater increases in police that we saw in the states that did not adopt these laws.

 

[westwall]

The image that comes to mind is guys who might in one instance have solved their disagreement with fists now have guns. Is that a fair image or is it exaggerating?

Not really. Australia got a lot of props for reductions in violent crime when it put in it's draconian anti gun laws. Of course New Zealand in a very similar socioeconomic situation had the same exact violent crime reduction without any gun law changes.

Instead of punishing law abiding citizens for what criminals do, why not punish criminals harder, or work for social change that would reduce that threat.

I get your point. If we made it illegal in the USA to be gay or transexual, we would greatly reduce the criminal threats and acts against that group. They maybe suffer a little bit, but with thousands of attacks, I think it's for the better good right?

There sure are lots of examples of guns being used to settle disputes. We have a very high gun crime rate.

Yes. And it is mainly gangbanger on gangbanger. Toss them in prison forever and the problem is vastly reduced.

 

[miketx]

Another lib troll post. These liars never stop. Countless lives have been saved by carrying. countless crimes deterred.

 

[Brain357]

The image that comes to mind is guys who might in one instance have solved their disagreement with fists now have guns. Is that a fair image or is it exaggerating?

Not really. Australia got a lot of props for reductions in violent crime when it put in it's draconian anti gun laws. Of course New Zealand in a very similar socioeconomic situation had the same exact violent crime reduction without any gun law changes.

Instead of punishing law abiding citizens for what criminals do, why not punish criminals harder, or work for social change that would reduce that threat.

I get your point. If we made it illegal in the USA to be gay or transexual, we would greatly reduce the criminal threats and acts against that group. They maybe suffer a little bit, but with thousands of attacks, I think it's for the better good right?

There sure are lots of examples of guns being used to settle disputes. We have a very high gun crime rate.

Yes. And it is mainly gangbanger on gangbanger. Toss them in prison forever and the problem is vastly reduced.

We have the highest incarceration rate in the world.

 

[Brain357]

Another lib troll post. These liars never stop. Countless lives have been saved by carrying. countless crimes deterred.

It's a post about an actual study that was done.

 

[Kat]

I call bs on that LA Times article. I know for a fact my brother would be dead if he never carried. He LEGALLY carried (s) a concealed weapon. Stopped at a gas station/store combo......guy walks up to my brother pointing a gun on him telling him to give his money, or he was going to shoot him.
My brother reached inside his vehicle and got his gun, and my brother shot they guy.


Turned out the guy was a known drug dealer. Police knew him the second they saw him. YES it was a horrible situation, and one my brother has had to live with and come to terms with for several years now. I doubt he has or ever will, but it was either my brother or the drug dealer. And yes, the dealer is dead. He was not carrying legally. He was a drug dealing thug. If my brother didn't have protection, he would be the dead one.

People easily can get illegal guns.

Few people are killed by complete strangers. It was a robbery attempt, not a homicide.

No it was a robbery attempt that actually DID turn into a homicide. And how many are ''few''??

 

[miketx]

The image that comes to mind is guys who might in one instance have solved their disagreement with fists now have guns. Is that a fair image or is it exaggerating?

Not really. Australia got a lot of props for reductions in violent crime when it put in it's draconian anti gun laws. Of course New Zealand in a very similar socioeconomic situation had the same exact violent crime reduction without any gun law changes.

Instead of punishing law abiding citizens for what criminals do, why not punish criminals harder, or work for social change that would reduce that threat.

I get your point. If we made it illegal in the USA to be gay or transexual, we would greatly reduce the criminal threats and acts against that group. They maybe suffer a little bit, but with thousands of attacks, I think it's for the better good right?

There sure are lots of examples of guns being used to settle disputes. We have a very high gun crime rate.

Yes. And it is mainly gangbanger on gangbanger. Toss them in prison forever and the problem is vastly reduced.

We have the highest incarceration rate in the world.

You mean that other countries do not lock up criminals and just let them roam free?

 

[miketx]

Another lib troll post. These liars never stop. Countless lives have been saved by carrying. countless crimes deterred.

It's a post about an actual study that was done.

It's a false "study", or, a lie.

 

[Brain357]

I call bs on that LA Times article. I know for a fact my brother would be dead if he never carried. He LEGALLY carried (s) a concealed weapon. Stopped at a gas station/store combo......guy walks up to my brother pointing a gun on him telling him to give his money, or he was going to shoot him.
My brother reached inside his vehicle and got his gun, and my brother shot they guy.


Turned out the guy was a known drug dealer. Police knew him the second they saw him. YES it was a horrible situation, and one my brother has had to live with and come to terms with for several years now. I doubt he has or ever will, but it was either my brother or the drug dealer. And yes, the dealer is dead. He was not carrying legally. He was a drug dealing thug. If my brother didn't have protection, he would be the dead one.

People easily can get illegal guns.

Few people are killed by complete strangers. It was a robbery attempt, not a homicide.

No it was a robbery attempt that actually DID turn into a homicide. And how many are ''few''??

Well I should specify. Most victims know their killer or are themselves criminals. Very, very few law abiding citizens are killed by a stranger.

 

[Brain357]

Another lib troll post. These liars never stop. Countless lives have been saved by carrying. countless crimes deterred.

It's a post about an actual study that was done.

It's a false "study", or, a lie.

And you say that why? Specifics please.

 

[miketx]

I call bs on that LA Times article. I know for a fact my brother would be dead if he never carried. He LEGALLY carried (s) a concealed weapon. Stopped at a gas station/store combo......guy walks up to my brother pointing a gun on him telling him to give his money, or he was going to shoot him.
My brother reached inside his vehicle and got his gun, and my brother shot they guy.


Turned out the guy was a known drug dealer. Police knew him the second they saw him. YES it was a horrible situation, and one my brother has had to live with and come to terms with for several years now. I doubt he has or ever will, but it was either my brother or the drug dealer. And yes, the dealer is dead. He was not carrying legally. He was a drug dealing thug. If my brother didn't have protection, he would be the dead one.

People easily can get illegal guns.

Few people are killed by complete strangers. It was a robbery attempt, not a homicide.

No it was a robbery attempt that actually DID turn into a homicide. And how many are ''few''??

Well I should specify. Most victims know their killer or are themselves criminals. Very, very few law abiding citizens are killed by a stranger.

Criminals cannot get a carry permit.

 

[Brain357]

The image that comes to mind is guys who might in one instance have solved their disagreement with fists now have guns. Is that a fair image or is it exaggerating?

Not really. Australia got a lot of props for reductions in violent crime when it put in it's draconian anti gun laws. Of course New Zealand in a very similar socioeconomic situation had the same exact violent crime reduction without any gun law changes.

Instead of punishing law abiding citizens for what criminals do, why not punish criminals harder, or work for social change that would reduce that threat.

I get your point. If we made it illegal in the USA to be gay or transexual, we would greatly reduce the criminal threats and acts against that group. They maybe suffer a little bit, but with thousands of attacks, I think it's for the better good right?

There sure are lots of examples of guns being used to settle disputes. We have a very high gun crime rate.

Yes. And it is mainly gangbanger on gangbanger. Toss them in prison forever and the problem is vastly reduced.

We have the highest incarceration rate in the world.

You mean that other countries do not lock up criminals and just let them roam free?

I mean countries with much lower crime rates have fewer incarcerated.

 

[Brain357]

I call bs on that LA Times article. I know for a fact my brother would be dead if he never carried. He LEGALLY carried (s) a concealed weapon. Stopped at a gas station/store combo......guy walks up to my brother pointing a gun on him telling him to give his money, or he was going to shoot him.
My brother reached inside his vehicle and got his gun, and my brother shot they guy.


Turned out the guy was a known drug dealer. Police knew him the second they saw him. YES it was a horrible situation, and one my brother has had to live with and come to terms with for several years now. I doubt he has or ever will, but it was either my brother or the drug dealer. And yes, the dealer is dead. He was not carrying legally. He was a drug dealing thug. If my brother didn't have protection, he would be the dead one.

People easily can get illegal guns.

Few people are killed by complete strangers. It was a robbery attempt, not a homicide.

No it was a robbery attempt that actually DID turn into a homicide. And how many are ''few''??

Well I should specify. Most victims know their killer or are themselves criminals. Very, very few law abiding citizens are killed by a stranger.

Criminals cannot get a carry permit.

Lots of permits can lead to more stolen guns and more armed criminals.

 

[Kat]

I call bs on that LA Times article. I know for a fact my brother would be dead if he never carried. He LEGALLY carried (s) a concealed weapon. Stopped at a gas station/store combo......guy walks up to my brother pointing a gun on him telling him to give his money, or he was going to shoot him.
My brother reached inside his vehicle and got his gun, and my brother shot they guy.


Turned out the guy was a known drug dealer. Police knew him the second they saw him. YES it was a horrible situation, and one my brother has had to live with and come to terms with for several years now. I doubt he has or ever will, but it was either my brother or the drug dealer. And yes, the dealer is dead. He was not carrying legally. He was a drug dealing thug. If my brother didn't have protection, he would be the dead one.

People easily can get illegal guns.

Few people are killed by complete strangers. It was a robbery attempt, not a homicide.

No it was a robbery attempt that actually DID turn into a homicide. And how many are ''few''??

Well I should specify. Most victims know their killer or are themselves criminals. Very, very few law abiding citizens are killed by a stranger.

Bull.

 

[miketx]

I call bs on that LA Times article. I know for a fact my brother would be dead if he never carried. He LEGALLY carried (s) a concealed weapon. Stopped at a gas station/store combo......guy walks up to my brother pointing a gun on him telling him to give his money, or he was going to shoot him.
My brother reached inside his vehicle and got his gun, and my brother shot they guy.


Turned out the guy was a known drug dealer. Police knew him the second they saw him. YES it was a horrible situation, and one my brother has had to live with and come to terms with for several years now. I doubt he has or ever will, but it was either my brother or the drug dealer. And yes, the dealer is dead. He was not carrying legally. He was a drug dealing thug. If my brother didn't have protection, he would be the dead one.

People easily can get illegal guns.

Few people are killed by complete strangers. It was a robbery attempt, not a homicide.

No it was a robbery attempt that actually DID turn into a homicide. And how many are ''few''??

Well I should specify. Most victims know their killer or are themselves criminals. Very, very few law abiding citizens are killed by a stranger.

Criminals cannot get a carry permit.

Lots of permits can lead to more stolen guns and more armed criminals.

Complete falsehood. Goodbye troll.