Does international law require Israel to vacate the disputed territories

[Boston1]

Actually Fangor has a point

The deal though is that the terminology doesn't mean what you think it does.

Beligerant is a term applied to both the defending and the aggressive party. In this case five nations of the Arab league declared war on Israel. The key thing to remember is that the legal obligations of belligerents ;--) depend entirely on their designation as the aggressor or the defender.

Occupation it has been argued, cannot include land designated for the "occupier" in that the USA is not occupying the land area of the USA in a legal sense, although the term is generally used as a convenience.

Likewise Israel cannot be illegally occupying the land of israel

I would note that the term illegal occupation or illegal belligerent occupation was not used by MR ( wait for it ;--)( Barak ) of the court.

See definitions in the definitions thread

That War is long over yet Israel remains Belligerent towards the civillian population of occupied Palestine

Wrong, the war isn't over, oh several of the original combatants have made peace but not all. According to

See
Geneva Convention (IV) - International Committee of the ...

A period of one year must pass with no hostilities before the waring parties are even expected to begin releasing war prisoners.

But unless a specific peace treaty is signed or a surrender is reached, the state of war still exists.

Which is another reason Israel is not required to vacate the disputed territories

Wrong, the war isn't over,​

Indeed, and Israel is prematurely claiming it won land in a continuing war.

Wrong, Israel isn't claiming it won land, Israel is claiming its using land designated by the world community for it to create a Jewish national homeland.

Which is why Israel was not asked to define its borders when it applied for statehood at the UN ;--) because the borders had yet to be determined.

Which is why it cannot be occupying this land. See the definitions thread for the exact legal description of occupy. Which IMHO is inaccurately used in reference to Israel in the disputed territories due the the Ottomans having given up any claim to the land and the mandate clearly stating that the area is to be used for the creation of a national Jewish homeland.

Wrong, Israel isn't claiming it won land, Israel is claiming its using land designated by the world community for it to create a Jewish national homeland.

What defined territory was given to Israel?

Link?

No problem

See
Mandate For Palestine - The Legal Aspects of Jewish Rights

As we can see Jordan is within the palstinian mandate and the area open to Judaic homeland is the entire area west of the Jordan River, including Gaza ad the West Bank.

This is not saying that the Judaic people were not willing to make further concessions for peace but the Arabs refused all negotiations and insisted on ALL OF PALESTINE which of course was not acceptable to the world community.

See also

The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate

Quote

ART. 6.
The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.

ART. 25.
In the territories lying between the Jordan and the eastern boundary of Palestine as ultimately determined, the Mandatory shall be entitled, with the consent of the Council of the League of Nations, to postpone or withhold application of such provisions of this mandate as he may consider inapplicable to the existing local conditions, and to make such provision for the administration of the territories as he may consider suitable to those conditions, provided that no action shall be taken which is inconsistent with the provisions of
Articles 15, 16 and 18.

End Quote

 

[P F Tinmore]

That War is long over yet Israel remains Belligerent towards the civillian population of occupied Palestine

Wrong, the war isn't over, oh several of the original combatants have made peace but not all. According to

See
Geneva Convention (IV) - International Committee of the ...

A period of one year must pass with no hostilities before the waring parties are even expected to begin releasing war prisoners.

But unless a specific peace treaty is signed or a surrender is reached, the state of war still exists.

Which is another reason Israel is not required to vacate the disputed territories

Wrong, the war isn't over,​

Indeed, and Israel is prematurely claiming it won land in a continuing war.

Wrong, Israel isn't claiming it won land, Israel is claiming its using land designated by the world community for it to create a Jewish national homeland.

Which is why Israel was not asked to define its borders when it applied for statehood at the UN ;--) because the borders had yet to be determined.

Which is why it cannot be occupying this land. See the definitions thread for the exact legal description of occupy. Which IMHO is inaccurately used in reference to Israel in the disputed territories due the the Ottomans having given up any claim to the land and the mandate clearly stating that the area is to be used for the creation of a national Jewish homeland.

Wrong, Israel isn't claiming it won land, Israel is claiming its using land designated by the world community for it to create a Jewish national homeland.

What defined territory was given to Israel?

Link?

No problem

See
Mandate For Palestine - The Legal Aspects of Jewish Rights

As we can see Jordan is within the palstinian mandate and the area open to Judaic homeland is the entire area west of the Jordan River, including Gaza ad the West Bank.

This is not saying that the Judaic people were not willing to make further concessions for peace but the Arabs refused all negotiations and insisted on ALL OF PALESTINE which of course was not acceptable to the world community.

See also

The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate

Quote

ART. 6.
The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.

ART. 25.
In the territories lying between the Jordan and the eastern boundary of Palestine as ultimately determined, the Mandatory shall be entitled, with the consent of the Council of the League of Nations, to postpone or withhold application of such provisions of this mandate as he may consider inapplicable to the existing local conditions, and to make such provision for the administration of the territories as he may consider suitable to those conditions, provided that no action shall be taken which is inconsistent with the provisions of
Articles 15, 16 and 18.

End Quote

That doesn't answer my question.

 

[montelatici]

That War is long over yet Israel remains Belligerent towards the civillian population of occupied Palestine

Wrong, the war isn't over, oh several of the original combatants have made peace but not all. According to

See
Geneva Convention (IV) - International Committee of the ...

A period of one year must pass with no hostilities before the waring parties are even expected to begin releasing war prisoners.

But unless a specific peace treaty is signed or a surrender is reached, the state of war still exists.

Which is another reason Israel is not required to vacate the disputed territories

Wrong, the war isn't over,​

Indeed, and Israel is prematurely claiming it won land in a continuing war.

Wrong, Israel isn't claiming it won land, Israel is claiming its using land designated by the world community for it to create a Jewish national homeland.

Which is why Israel was not asked to define its borders when it applied for statehood at the UN ;--) because the borders had yet to be determined.

Which is why it cannot be occupying this land. See the definitions thread for the exact legal description of occupy. Which IMHO is inaccurately used in reference to Israel in the disputed territories due the the Ottomans having given up any claim to the land and the mandate clearly stating that the area is to be used for the creation of a national Jewish homeland.

Wrong, Israel isn't claiming it won land, Israel is claiming its using land designated by the world community for it to create a Jewish national homeland.

What defined territory was given to Israel?

Link?

No problem

See
Mandate For Palestine - The Legal Aspects of Jewish Rights

As we can see Jordan is within the palstinian mandate and the area open to Judaic homeland is the entire area west of the Jordan River, including Gaza ad the West Bank.

This is not saying that the Judaic people were not willing to make further concessions for peace but the Arabs refused all negotiations and insisted on ALL OF PALESTINE which of course was not acceptable to the world community.

See also

The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate

Quote

ART. 6.
The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.

ART. 25.
In the territories lying between the Jordan and the eastern boundary of Palestine as ultimately determined, the Mandatory shall be entitled, with the consent of the Council of the League of Nations, to postpone or withhold application of such provisions of this mandate as he may consider inapplicable to the existing local conditions, and to make such provision for the administration of the territories as he may consider suitable to those conditions, provided that no action shall be taken which is inconsistent with the provisions of
Articles 15, 16 and 18.

End Quote

Why are you posting a map from a Hasbara site drawn up in 2005? Does it have any relevance to the facts?

 

[Boston1]

LOL

Your question was answered, the last accepted international agreement was the British mandate which allows Israel to set up camp anywhere west of the Jordan in the mandated area. Ergo they cannot be illegally occupying land that is already theirs.

It also proves that land east of the Jordan was part of palestine and was given over to the creation of a palestinian state subsequently called Trans-Jordan. The palestinian nature of this new state is found throughout the document quoted.

Oh and Monty, if you can prove the map inaccurate for the date specified as the official boundaries of the palestinian mandate, go for it ;--)

 

[montelatici]

LOL

Your question was answered, the last accepted international agreement was the British mandate which allows Israel to set up camp anywhere west of the Jordan in the mandated area. Ergo they cannot be illegally occupying land that is already theirs.

It also proves that land east of the Jordan was part of palestine and was given over to the creation of a palestinian state subsequently called Trans-Jordan. The palestinian nature of this new state is found throughout the document quoted.

Oh and Monty, if you can prove the map inaccurate for the date specified as the official boundaries of the palestinian mandate, go for it ;--)

It proves nothing of the sort. Trans-Jordania, a separate territory, previously part of the Hashemite Emirate of Syria, was retained by the Hashemites, with British approval, after the capital of Syria was occupied by France and the Emir and the government fled to Amman, in Trans-Jordania. The territory was then administered by the former Hashemite Emir of Syria, with the help of Britain, who was left with only the Trans-Jordania portion of his Emirate. It had nothing to do with Palestine. To wit:



"X.--TRANS-JORDANIA.

Included in the area of the Palestine Mandate is the territory of Trans-Jordania. It is bounded on the north by the frontier of Syria, placed under the mandate of France; on the south by the kingdom of the Hejaz; and on the west by the line of the Jordan and the Dead Sea; while on the east it stretches into the desert and ends--the boundary is not yet defined--where Mesopotamia begins. Trans-Jordania has a population of probably 350,000 people. It contains a few small towns and large areas of fertile land, producing excellent wheat and barley. The people are partly settled townsmen and agriculturists, partly wandering Bedouin; the latter, however, cultivate areas, more or less fixed, during certain seasons of the year.

When Palestine west of the Jordan was occupied by the British Army and placed under a British military administration, over Trans-Jordania and a large part of Syria there was established an Arab administration, with its capital at Damascus. The ruler was His Highness the Emir Feisal, the third son of H.M. King Hussein, the King of the Hejaz. When Damascus was occupied by French troops in July, 1920, and the Emir Feisal withdrew, it was necessary to adopt fresh measures in Trans-Jordania. I proceeded to the central town of Salt on August 20th, and, at an assembly of notables and sheikhs of the district, announced that His Majesty's Government favoured the establishment of a system of local self- government, assisted by a small number of British officers as advisers.

Local councils were accordingly formed in the various districts, the people not being ready to unite in any form of combined government for Trans-Jordania as a whole. Five British officers were appointed to assist the councils and their officials and to aid in organising a gendarmerie. No British troops were stationed in the district."

Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations/Balfour Declaration text (30 July 1921)

 

[P F Tinmore]

LOL

Your question was answered, the last accepted international agreement was the British mandate which allows Israel to set up camp anywhere west of the Jordan in the mandated area. Ergo they cannot be illegally occupying land that is already theirs.

It also proves that land east of the Jordan was part of palestine and was given over to the creation of a palestinian state subsequently called Trans-Jordan. The palestinian nature of this new state is found throughout the document quoted.

Oh and Monty, if you can prove the map inaccurate for the date specified as the official boundaries of the palestinian mandate, go for it ;--)

That is a Zionist pipe dream map. Neither the LoN nor the Mandate called it Jewish Palestine.

 

[Boston1]

So you want to play with first sources eh, OK well lets just make sure and get the dates correct.

See
League of Nations: The Mandate for Palestine, July 24, 1922

Quote

Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917

End quote

So actually you'd have to prove that what is now the area of Jordan wasn't in the mandated area of palestine previous to Nov 2nd 1917, and since Jordan or Trans-Jordan as it was called on its inception didn't even exist at that time you're going to have a pretty hard time.

Transjordan was created after June 3 1922 and didn't obtain full independence from the UK until 1946

See
The Avalon Project : British White Paper of June 1922

Quote

With reference to the Constitution which it is now intended to establish in Palestine, the draft of which has already been published, it is desirable to make certain points clear. In the first place, it is not the case, as has been represented by the Arab Delegation, that during the war His Majesty's Government gave an undertaking that an independent national government should be at once established in Palestine. This representation mainly rests upon a letter dated the 24th October, 1915, from Sir Henry McMahon, then His Majesty's High Commissioner in Egypt, to the Sharif of Mecca, now King Hussein of the Kingdom of the Hejaz. That letter is quoted as conveying the promise to the Sherif of Mecca to recognise and support the independence of the Arabs within the territories proposed by him. But this promise was given subject to a reservation made in the same letter, which excluded from its scope, among other territories, the portions of Syria lying to the west of the District of Damascus. This reservation has always been regarded by His Majesty's Government as covering the vilayet of Beirut and the independent Sanjak of Jerusalem. The whole of Palestine west of the Jordan was thus excluded from Sir. Henry McMahon's pledge.

End Quote

There really can be no doubt that Jordan was carved out of palestine and that its inhabitants were palestinian. It also confirms that at the time of the white letter there was no state of Transjordan

The British mandate was intended to put into effect the declaration originally made on Nov 2 1917

See
The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate

Quote

Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country;

End Quote

The Mandate itself was accepted on July 24 1922 and defined the area of the British mandate as including the area now known as Jordan.

But the Trans-Jordan memorandum wasn't accepted by the league of nations until Sep 16 1922 but was specifically excluded for use as part of a national Jewish homeland. Trans-Jordan didn't receive independence from the UK until 1946

See
The Near East Since the First World War: A History to 1995

Also see article 25 British mandate for palestine

Quote

Article 25.

In the territories lying between the Jordan and the eastern boundary of Palestine as ultimately determined, the Mandatory shall be entitled, with the consent of the Council of the League of Nations, to postpone or withhold application of such provisions of this mandate as he may consider inapplicable to the existing local conditions, and to make such provision for the administration of the territories as he may consider suitable to those conditions, provided that no action shall be taken which is inconsistent with the provisions of Articles 15, 16 and 18.

End Quote

See also
League of Nations Official Journal, Nov. 1922, pp. 1390–1391

Kinda puts an end to that nonsense now doesn't it Monty.

The British mandate was ratified two months BEFORE the Trans-Jordan memorandum and that mandate legally refers back to 1915.

Ergo Trans-Jordan was carved out of the British mandate exactly as I've been saying all along ;--)

Looks like you can argue maps till you are blue in the face but the dates on the various documents is the final nail in the revisionist coffin.

 

[P F Tinmore]

So you want to play with first sources eh, OK well lets just make sure and get the dates correct.

See
League of Nations: The Mandate for Palestine, July 24, 1922

Quote

Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917

End quote

So actually you'd have to prove that what is now the area of Jordan wasn't in the mandated area of palestine previous to Nov 2nd 1917, and since Jordan or Trans-Jordan as it was called on its inception didn't even exist at that time you're going to have a pretty hard time.

Transjordan was created after June 3 1922

See
The Avalon Project : British White Paper of June 1922

Quote

With reference to the Constitution which it is now intended to establish in Palestine, the draft of which has already been published, it is desirable to make certain points clear. In the first place, it is not the case, as has been represented by the Arab Delegation, that during the war His Majesty's Government gave an undertaking that an independent national government should be at once established in Palestine. This representation mainly rests upon a letter dated the 24th October, 1915, from Sir Henry McMahon, then His Majesty's High Commissioner in Egypt, to the Sharif of Mecca, now King Hussein of the Kingdom of the Hejaz. That letter is quoted as conveying the promise to the Sherif of Mecca to recognise and support the independence of the Arabs within the territories proposed by him. But this promise was given subject to a reservation made in the same letter, which excluded from its scope, among other territories, the portions of Syria lying to the west of the District of Damascus. This reservation has always been regarded by His Majesty's Government as covering the vilayet of Beirut and the independent Sanjak of Jerusalem. The whole of Palestine west of the Jordan was thus excluded from Sir. Henry McMahon's pledge.

End Quote

There really can be no doubt that Jordan was carved out of palestine and that its inhabitants were palestinian. It also confirms that at the time of the white letter there was no state of Transjordan

The British mandate was intended to put into effect the declaration originally made on Nov 2 1917

See
The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate

Quote

Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country;

End Quote

The Mandate itself was accepted on July 24 1922 and defined the area of the British mandate as including the area now known as Jordan.

But the Trans-Jordan memorandum wasn't accepted by the league of nations until Sep 16 1922 but was specifically excluded for use as part of a national Jewish homeland

See article 25 British mandate for palestine

Quote

Article 25.

In the territories lying between the Jordan and the eastern boundary of Palestine as ultimately determined, the Mandatory shall be entitled, with the consent of the Council of the League of Nations, to postpone or withhold application of such provisions of this mandate as he may consider inapplicable to the existing local conditions, and to make such provision for the administration of the territories as he may consider suitable to those conditions, provided that no action shall be taken which is inconsistent with the provisions of Articles 15, 16 and 18.

End Quote

See also
League of Nations Official Journal, Nov. 1922, pp. 1390–1391

Kinda puts an end to that nonsense now doesn't it Monty.

The British mandate was ratified two months BEFORE the Trans-Jordan memorandum and that mandate legally refers back to 1915.

Ergo Trans-Jordan was carved out of the British mandate exactly as I've been saying all along ;--)

Looks like you can argue maps till you are blue in the face but the dates on the various documents is the final nail in the revisionist coffin.

There really can be no doubt that Jordan was carved out of palestine and that its inhabitants were palestinian. It also confirms that at the time of the white letter there was no state of Transjordan​

There was no Transjordan but there was a Palestine and Palestinians.

I am glad you are clearing this up for us.

 

[Boston1]

So you want to play with first sources eh, OK well lets just make sure and get the dates correct.

See
League of Nations: The Mandate for Palestine, July 24, 1922

Quote

Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917

End quote

So actually you'd have to prove that what is now the area of Jordan wasn't in the mandated area of palestine previous to Nov 2nd 1917, and since Jordan or Trans-Jordan as it was called on its inception didn't even exist at that time you're going to have a pretty hard time.

Transjordan was created after June 3 1922

See
The Avalon Project : British White Paper of June 1922

Quote

With reference to the Constitution which it is now intended to establish in Palestine, the draft of which has already been published, it is desirable to make certain points clear. In the first place, it is not the case, as has been represented by the Arab Delegation, that during the war His Majesty's Government gave an undertaking that an independent national government should be at once established in Palestine. This representation mainly rests upon a letter dated the 24th October, 1915, from Sir Henry McMahon, then His Majesty's High Commissioner in Egypt, to the Sharif of Mecca, now King Hussein of the Kingdom of the Hejaz. That letter is quoted as conveying the promise to the Sherif of Mecca to recognise and support the independence of the Arabs within the territories proposed by him. But this promise was given subject to a reservation made in the same letter, which excluded from its scope, among other territories, the portions of Syria lying to the west of the District of Damascus. This reservation has always been regarded by His Majesty's Government as covering the vilayet of Beirut and the independent Sanjak of Jerusalem. The whole of Palestine west of the Jordan was thus excluded from Sir. Henry McMahon's pledge.

End Quote

There really can be no doubt that Jordan was carved out of palestine and that its inhabitants were palestinian. It also confirms that at the time of the white letter there was no state of Transjordan

The British mandate was intended to put into effect the declaration originally made on Nov 2 1917

See
The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate

Quote

Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country;

End Quote

The Mandate itself was accepted on July 24 1922 and defined the area of the British mandate as including the area now known as Jordan.

But the Trans-Jordan memorandum wasn't accepted by the league of nations until Sep 16 1922 but was specifically excluded for use as part of a national Jewish homeland

See article 25 British mandate for palestine

Quote

Article 25.

In the territories lying between the Jordan and the eastern boundary of Palestine as ultimately determined, the Mandatory shall be entitled, with the consent of the Council of the League of Nations, to postpone or withhold application of such provisions of this mandate as he may consider inapplicable to the existing local conditions, and to make such provision for the administration of the territories as he may consider suitable to those conditions, provided that no action shall be taken which is inconsistent with the provisions of Articles 15, 16 and 18.

End Quote

See also
League of Nations Official Journal, Nov. 1922, pp. 1390–1391

Kinda puts an end to that nonsense now doesn't it Monty.

The British mandate was ratified two months BEFORE the Trans-Jordan memorandum and that mandate legally refers back to 1915.

Ergo Trans-Jordan was carved out of the British mandate exactly as I've been saying all along ;--)

Looks like you can argue maps till you are blue in the face but the dates on the various documents is the final nail in the revisionist coffin.

There really can be no doubt that Jordan was carved out of palestine and that its inhabitants were palestinian. It also confirms that at the time of the white letter there was no state of Transjordan​

There was no Transjordan but there was a Palestine and Palestinians.

I am glad you are clearing this up for us.

Exactly,

what became Jordan was entirely within the area known as palestine and is comprised entirely of palestinians ( or at least according to the UN definition of palestinians ) . Which makes Jordan the palestinian state

So the next question you bring up was also interesting

A strong case can be made to say that palestine is an invented people in the first place

Palestinians: The Invented People - Cherson and Molschky

Adelson: Palestinians an invented people out to destroy Israel

RealClearWorld - Yes, Palestinians Are an Invented People

 

[Kondor3]

The so-called 'Palestinians' are a polyglut of both long-time resident families and very recent regional immigrant families.

As to the aspect of their demographic represented by long-time resident blood lines, those are mostly the descendants of the last round(s) of Arabic conquerors who stole the land from Christians and Jews and such.

Now, their 10th and 20th great-grandsons... long-since degenerated into something not recognizable by a warrior ancestor... have lost the land, and must now leave and scatter.

Nature has de-selected them.

It's not like the world is going to miss them, or anything.

===================================================

The lesson of the Great Arab Skedaddle of 1948?

"He who pisses his pants, then runs away, lives to regret it, for many a day."

 

[montelatici]

So you want to play with first sources eh, OK well lets just make sure and get the dates correct.

See
League of Nations: The Mandate for Palestine, July 24, 1922

Quote

Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917

End quote

So actually you'd have to prove that what is now the area of Jordan wasn't in the mandated area of palestine previous to Nov 2nd 1917, and since Jordan or Trans-Jordan as it was called on its inception didn't even exist at that time you're going to have a pretty hard time.

Transjordan was created after June 3 1922

See
The Avalon Project : British White Paper of June 1922

Quote

With reference to the Constitution which it is now intended to establish in Palestine, the draft of which has already been published, it is desirable to make certain points clear. In the first place, it is not the case, as has been represented by the Arab Delegation, that during the war His Majesty's Government gave an undertaking that an independent national government should be at once established in Palestine. This representation mainly rests upon a letter dated the 24th October, 1915, from Sir Henry McMahon, then His Majesty's High Commissioner in Egypt, to the Sharif of Mecca, now King Hussein of the Kingdom of the Hejaz. That letter is quoted as conveying the promise to the Sherif of Mecca to recognise and support the independence of the Arabs within the territories proposed by him. But this promise was given subject to a reservation made in the same letter, which excluded from its scope, among other territories, the portions of Syria lying to the west of the District of Damascus. This reservation has always been regarded by His Majesty's Government as covering the vilayet of Beirut and the independent Sanjak of Jerusalem. The whole of Palestine west of the Jordan was thus excluded from Sir. Henry McMahon's pledge.

End Quote

There really can be no doubt that Jordan was carved out of palestine and that its inhabitants were palestinian. It also confirms that at the time of the white letter there was no state of Transjordan

The British mandate was intended to put into effect the declaration originally made on Nov 2 1917

See
The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate

Quote

Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country;

End Quote

The Mandate itself was accepted on July 24 1922 and defined the area of the British mandate as including the area now known as Jordan.

But the Trans-Jordan memorandum wasn't accepted by the league of nations until Sep 16 1922 but was specifically excluded for use as part of a national Jewish homeland

See article 25 British mandate for palestine

Quote

Article 25.

In the territories lying between the Jordan and the eastern boundary of Palestine as ultimately determined, the Mandatory shall be entitled, with the consent of the Council of the League of Nations, to postpone or withhold application of such provisions of this mandate as he may consider inapplicable to the existing local conditions, and to make such provision for the administration of the territories as he may consider suitable to those conditions, provided that no action shall be taken which is inconsistent with the provisions of Articles 15, 16 and 18.

End Quote

See also
League of Nations Official Journal, Nov. 1922, pp. 1390–1391

Kinda puts an end to that nonsense now doesn't it Monty.

The British mandate was ratified two months BEFORE the Trans-Jordan memorandum and that mandate legally refers back to 1915.

Ergo Trans-Jordan was carved out of the British mandate exactly as I've been saying all along ;--)

Looks like you can argue maps till you are blue in the face but the dates on the various documents is the final nail in the revisionist coffin.

There really can be no doubt that Jordan was carved out of palestine and that its inhabitants were palestinian. It also confirms that at the time of the white letter there was no state of Transjordan​

There was no Transjordan but there was a Palestine and Palestinians.

I am glad you are clearing this up for us.

Exactly,

what became Jordan was entirely within the area known as palestine and is comprised entirely of palestinians ( or at least according to the UN definition of palestinians ) . Which makes Jordan the palestinian state

So the next question you bring up was also interesting

A strong case can be made to say that palestine is an invented people in the first place

Palestinians: The Invented People - Cherson and Molschky

Adelson: Palestinians an invented people out to destroy Israel

RealClearWorld - Yes, Palestinians Are an Invented People

Still posting links to Zionist propaganda sites. What's the point?