Everyone using the Internet including you reading this are demonstrating

[healthmyths]

how wrong anti-capitalist, pro-socialism people like Bernie Sanders supporters and ALL progressives that deride America and what has been accomplished!

When in all of humankind history have humans been able to:
1) write something that can be read by nearly half of the 7.5 billion inhabitants.
World Internet Users Statistics and 2017 World Population Stats
2) call or text to anywhere in the world instantly to nearly 7 billion cell phones
List of countries by number of mobile phones in use - Wikipedia

So explain to me how the Internet originally a DARPA project was quickly adopted by the general population and greatly expanded the market, i.e. through that dastardly tool...CAPITALISM!

3) Now contrary to almost ALL Sanders/progressives,etc. all millionaires inherited their fortune!
a) 47% of millionaires are business owners.
b) 23% of the world's millionaires got that way through paid work, consisting mostly of skilled
professionals or managers. Millionaire - Wikipedia
Nearly 70% making their fortunes through capitalism at work!

15.7 million of the 321 million Americans or one Millionaire for every 20 Americans in 2015.

In 1870 there were around 100 millionaires in a population of 38,558,371... or a ratio of one millionaire for every 385,583 Americans.
https://books.google.com/booksid=NI...850 how many people were millionaires&f=false

So I'd like you proponents of socialism.....
(From Venezuela to France, Socialism Is Failing All Over the World)
From Venezuela to France, Socialism Is Failing All Over the World

Please counter in an intelligent dialogue as to why with the above FACTS your socialism position is
better then the American/world models of capitalism at work?

 

[iceberg]

well that should fix everything and not start smartass replies.

 

[Coyote]

healthmyths - Please fix your title, we don't allow all caps in titles.

 

[healthmyths]

healthmyths - Please fix your title, we don't allow all caps in titles.

No problem fixed!

 

[Ringel05]

healthmyths - Please fix your title, we don't allow all caps in titles.

WHAT??

 

[Richard-H]

how wrong anti-capitalist, pro-socialism people like Bernie Sanders supporters and ALL progressives that deride America and what has been accomplished!

When in all of humankind history have humans been able to:
1) write something that can be read by nearly half of the 7.5 billion inhabitants.
World Internet Users Statistics and 2017 World Population Stats
2) call or text to anywhere in the world instantly to nearly 7 billion cell phones
List of countries by number of mobile phones in use - Wikipedia

So explain to me how the Internet originally a DARPA project was quickly adopted by the general population and greatly expanded the market, i.e. through that dastardly tool...CAPITALISM!

3) Now contrary to almost ALL Sanders/progressives,etc. all millionaires inherited their fortune!
a) 47% of millionaires are business owners.
b) 23% of the world's millionaires got that way through paid work, consisting mostly of skilled
professionals or managers. Millionaire - Wikipedia
Nearly 70% making their fortunes through capitalism at work!

15.7 million of the 321 million Americans or one Millionaire for every 20 Americans in 2015.

In 1870 there were around 100 millionaires in a population of 38,558,371... or a ratio of one millionaire for every 385,583 Americans.
https://books.google.com/booksid=NIOx3DQdSeUC&pg=PA218&lpg=PA218&dq=in+1850+how+many+people+were+millionaires&source=bl&ots=aMjDIiUKI2&sig=GMD49xzhCmXL16bARrAcgDqfug&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjSm73AhcrTAhXoz4MKHT4rB0kQ6AEIUzAH#v=onepage&q=in 1850 how many people were millionaires&f=false

So I'd like you proponents of socialism.....
(From Venezuela to France, Socialism Is Failing All Over the World)
From Venezuela to France, Socialism Is Failing All Over the World

Please counter in an intelligent dialogue as to why with the above FACTS your socialism position is
better then the American/world models of capitalism at work?

Wow, this is too easy!

First, DARPA was NOT quickly 'adopted by the general population'. DARPA started in the 1960s and was in use exclusively by a small number of government approved institutions.

Second, the transition of DARPA into the internet was done by Al Gore and the technology team he led. It was that team that decided to privatize DARPA thru a system of licensed ISP, make it available to the general public and call it the 'Internet'. The 'Internet' only exists because of Al Gore and his team.

Third:

a. If 47% of the millionaires are business owners, 53% are not business owners.
b. If 23% of the world's millionaires got their wealth thru paid work, 77% did not get their wealth thru paid work.
c. Business owners usually pay themselves a salary, so it's disingenuous to add the 47% and 23% to arrive at 70%. These numbers overlap. So from your figures we only know that at LEAST 30%, and probably a lot more, DID NOT obtain their wealth thru either business ownership or paid work.

Finally, Venezuela's economic problems are primarily due to the extreme fall in oil prices in the recent years. If they were capitalist, most likely they'd be experiencing the same level of economic problems or worse.

BTW - please change you thread title as requested by the moderator.

 

[AntonToo]

The biggest strawman is insinuating that Bernie or Progressives see no place for capitalism in the economy in general or internet proliferation specifically. It false, plain and simple. Here is that FLAMING SOCIALIST!!! discussing the topic:

Bernie Sanders:

Capitalism does a number of things very well: it helps create an entrepreneurial spirit, it gets people motivated to come up with new ideas and that’s a good thing. But on the other hand, especially since the Reagan era, what we have seen in this country is an unfettered type of cowboy capitalism, and the result of that has been, that the people on top have made out like bandits and many of them are bandits. Today in America we have a situation that is quickly moving out of control.

 

[miketx]

healthmyths - Please fix your title, we don't allow all caps in titles.

WHAT??

He said the back room is full!

 

[healthmyths]

how wrong anti-capitalist, pro-socialism people like Bernie Sanders supporters and ALL progressives that deride America and what has been accomplished!

When in all of humankind history have humans been able to:
1) write something that can be read by nearly half of the 7.5 billion inhabitants.
World Internet Users Statistics and 2017 World Population Stats
2) call or text to anywhere in the world instantly to nearly 7 billion cell phones
List of countries by number of mobile phones in use - Wikipedia

So explain to me how the Internet originally a DARPA project was quickly adopted by the general population and greatly expanded the market, i.e. through that dastardly tool...CAPITALISM!

3) Now contrary to almost ALL Sanders/progressives,etc. all millionaires inherited their fortune!
a) 47% of millionaires are business owners.
b) 23% of the world's millionaires got that way through paid work, consisting mostly of skilled
professionals or managers. Millionaire - Wikipedia
Nearly 70% making their fortunes through capitalism at work!

15.7 million of the 321 million Americans or one Millionaire for every 20 Americans in 2015.

In 1870 there were around 100 millionaires in a population of 38,558,371... or a ratio of one millionaire for every 385,583 Americans.
https://books.google.com/booksid=NIOx3DQdSeUC&pg=PA218&lpg=PA218&dq=in+1850+how+many+people+were+millionaires&source=bl&ots=aMjDIiUKI2&sig=GMD49xzhCmXL16bARrAcgDqfug&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjSm73AhcrTAhXoz4MKHT4rB0kQ6AEIUzAH#v=onepage&q=in 1850 how many people were millionaires&f=false

So I'd like you proponents of socialism.....
(From Venezuela to France, Socialism Is Failing All Over the World)
From Venezuela to France, Socialism Is Failing All Over the World

Please counter in an intelligent dialogue as to why with the above FACTS your socialism position is
better then the American/world models of capitalism at work?

Wow, this is too easy!

First, DARPA was NOT quickly 'adopted by the general population'. DARPA started in the 1960s and was in use exclusively by a small number of government approved institutions.

Second, the transition of DARPA into the internet was done by Al Gore and the technology team he led. It was that team that decided to privatize DARPA thru a system of licensed ISP, make it available to the general public and call it the 'Internet'. The 'Internet' only exists because of Al Gore and his team.

Third:

a. If 47% of the millionaires are business owners, 53% are not business owners.
b. If 23% of the world's millionaires got their wealth thru paid work, 77% did not get their wealth thru paid work.
c. Business owners usually pay themselves a salary, so it's disingenuous to add the 47% and 23% to arrive at 70%. These numbers overlap. So from your figures we only know that at LEAST 30%, and probably a lot more, DID NOT obtain their wealth thru either business ownership or paid work.

Finally, Venezuela's economic problems are primarily due to the extreme fall in oil prices in the recent years. If they were capitalist, most likely they'd be experiencing the same level of economic problems or worse.

BTW - please change you thread title as requested by the moderator.

Wow once again behind the times and 100% wrong!
A) Title changed before you submitted your comment!
B) From AL Gore's mouth:
"I took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country's economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system.."
It's clumsy wording, to be sure.
Political misquotes: The 10 most famous things never actually said
C) A second development occurred around this time, namely, then-Senator Al Gore, a strong and knowledgeable proponent of the Internet, promoted legislation that resulted in President George H.W Bush signing the High Performance Computing and Communication Act of 1991. This Act allocated $600 million for high performance computing and for the creation of the National Research and Education Network [13–14]. The NREN brought together industry, academia and government in a joint effort to accelerate the development and deployment of gigabit/sec networking.
Now THIS was where universities were able to connect NOT private industries. So again you were wrong because it still was
in the non-capitalist environment...i.e.. government/academia!

As far as "millionaires"...
FLAT FACT!
16% of millionaires inherited their fortunes.
47% of millionaires are business owners.
23% of the world's millionaires got that way through paid work, consisting mostly of skilled professionals or managers.
86% total which means 14% unknown!
Millionaire - Wikipedia
So QUIT GUESSING THAT's your problem! Deal with FACTS!
"So from your figures we only know that at LEAST 30%, and probably a lot more, DID NOT obtain their wealth thru either business ownership or paid work." WRONG!

Who made you the f...king expert regarding Venezuela! WHERE ARE YOUR LINKS?
Again my link: From Venezuela to France, Socialism Is Failing All Over the World
"Venezuelan socialism is a self-deprecating expression of extreme socialist ideas, the type of Marxism that, when applied for the first time in Russia just 100 years ago, called itself communism. The French, on the other hand, like most Europeans, showed last Sunday they no longer have faith in the other variant of socialism, the “light” or moderate form that in many countries has been called Social Democracy or Democratic Socialism. Both ideologies coincide on a fundamental point: their rejection of capitalism and the free market economy that give everyone the right to produce and consume according to their needs. Some, like communists, want to eliminate it completely, while others want to control it and reduce it to its minimum expression."

Further FACTS!!! Use the internet!

The second factor is more contemporary, and is that the petrostate has been deepened considerably during the Chávez and Maduro years to expropriate large sectors of the productive economy.
The idea was that a productive apparatus could emerge on the basis of state-owned and worker-operated enterprises. The trouble with that is that basically these companies, even though they were state-run, were competing against much better profit-oriented enterprises.
Most of the other products that have a regulated price set by the government are difficult to find, and when they are found, they’re highly rationed.
AGAIN see what the experts say NOT me as I'm not as pompous as you to comment without substantiation to back me UP!!!
What's Behind The Economic Chaos In Venezuela | HuffPost

 

[forkup]

how wrong anti-capitalist, pro-socialism people like Bernie Sanders supporters and ALL progressives that deride America and what has been accomplished!

When in all of humankind history have humans been able to:
1) write something that can be read by nearly half of the 7.5 billion inhabitants.
World Internet Users Statistics and 2017 World Population Stats
2) call or text to anywhere in the world instantly to nearly 7 billion cell phones
List of countries by number of mobile phones in use - Wikipedia

So explain to me how the Internet originally a DARPA project was quickly adopted by the general population and greatly expanded the market, i.e. through that dastardly tool...CAPITALISM!

3) Now contrary to almost ALL Sanders/progressives,etc. all millionaires inherited their fortune!
a) 47% of millionaires are business owners.
b) 23% of the world's millionaires got that way through paid work, consisting mostly of skilled
professionals or managers. Millionaire - Wikipedia
Nearly 70% making their fortunes through capitalism at work!

15.7 million of the 321 million Americans or one Millionaire for every 20 Americans in 2015.

In 1870 there were around 100 millionaires in a population of 38,558,371... or a ratio of one millionaire for every 385,583 Americans.
https://books.google.com/booksid=NIOx3DQdSeUC&pg=PA218&lpg=PA218&dq=in+1850+how+many+people+were+millionaires&source=bl&ots=aMjDIiUKI2&sig=GMD49xzhCmXL16bARrAcgDqfug&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjSm73AhcrTAhXoz4MKHT4rB0kQ6AEIUzAH#v=onepage&q=in 1850 how many people were millionaires&f=false

So I'd like you proponents of socialism.....
(From Venezuela to France, Socialism Is Failing All Over the World)
From Venezuela to France, Socialism Is Failing All Over the World

Please counter in an intelligent dialogue as to why with the above FACTS your socialism position is
better then the American/world models of capitalism at work?

Richard did a decent job of debunking your claims. I'll add my two cents. I'm Belgian we are capitalistic, just like France and presumably Venezuela, free enterprise is the driving force of much of our economy. We however have chosen to adopt policies trough the government to protect it's citizens against UNBRIDLED Capitalism and we have adopted policies to give it's citizens an even playing field and protection against unforeseen events, so that whatever happens a certain level of living standard can be maintained. This means affordable universal healthcare, near free education and unemployment compensation high enough so ppl in between jobs don't become homeless people. It doesn't work perfectly but I'm willing to compare most of it to the AVERAGE American.

 

[healthmyths]

how wrong anti-capitalist, pro-socialism people like Bernie Sanders supporters and ALL progressives that deride America and what has been accomplished!

When in all of humankind history have humans been able to:
1) write something that can be read by nearly half of the 7.5 billion inhabitants.
World Internet Users Statistics and 2017 World Population Stats
2) call or text to anywhere in the world instantly to nearly 7 billion cell phones
List of countries by number of mobile phones in use - Wikipedia

So explain to me how the Internet originally a DARPA project was quickly adopted by the general population and greatly expanded the market, i.e. through that dastardly tool...CAPITALISM!

3) Now contrary to almost ALL Sanders/progressives,etc. all millionaires inherited their fortune!
a) 47% of millionaires are business owners.
b) 23% of the world's millionaires got that way through paid work, consisting mostly of skilled
professionals or managers. Millionaire - Wikipedia
Nearly 70% making their fortunes through capitalism at work!

15.7 million of the 321 million Americans or one Millionaire for every 20 Americans in 2015.

In 1870 there were around 100 millionaires in a population of 38,558,371... or a ratio of one millionaire for every 385,583 Americans.
https://books.google.com/booksid=NIOx3DQdSeUC&pg=PA218&lpg=PA218&dq=in+1850+how+many+people+were+millionaires&source=bl&ots=aMjDIiUKI2&sig=GMD49xzhCmXL16bARrAcgDqfug&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjSm73AhcrTAhXoz4MKHT4rB0kQ6AEIUzAH#v=onepage&q=in 1850 how many people were millionaires&f=false

So I'd like you proponents of socialism.....
(From Venezuela to France, Socialism Is Failing All Over the World)
From Venezuela to France, Socialism Is Failing All Over the World

Please counter in an intelligent dialogue as to why with the above FACTS your socialism position is
better then the American/world models of capitalism at work?

Richard did a decent job of debunking your claims. I'll add my two cents. I'm Belgian we are capitalistic, just like France and presumably Venezuela, free enterprise is the driving force of much of our economy. We however have chosen to adopt policies trough the government to protect it's citizens against UNBRIDLED Capitalism and we have adopted policies to give it's citizens an even playing field and protection against unforeseen events, so that whatever happens a certain level of living standard can be maintained. This means affordable universal healthcare, near free education and unemployment compensation high enough so ppl in between jobs don't become homeless people. It doesn't work perfectly but I'm willing to compare most of it to the AVERAGE American.

One question for you then.. why do these people want to come to the USA and not to the paradise known as Belgium?

 

[forkup]

how wrong anti-capitalist, pro-socialism people like Bernie Sanders supporters and ALL progressives that deride America and what has been accomplished!

When in all of humankind history have humans been able to:
1) write something that can be read by nearly half of the 7.5 billion inhabitants.
World Internet Users Statistics and 2017 World Population Stats
2) call or text to anywhere in the world instantly to nearly 7 billion cell phones
List of countries by number of mobile phones in use - Wikipedia

So explain to me how the Internet originally a DARPA project was quickly adopted by the general population and greatly expanded the market, i.e. through that dastardly tool...CAPITALISM!

3) Now contrary to almost ALL Sanders/progressives,etc. all millionaires inherited their fortune!
a) 47% of millionaires are business owners.
b) 23% of the world's millionaires got that way through paid work, consisting mostly of skilled
professionals or managers. Millionaire - Wikipedia
Nearly 70% making their fortunes through capitalism at work!

15.7 million of the 321 million Americans or one Millionaire for every 20 Americans in 2015.

In 1870 there were around 100 millionaires in a population of 38,558,371... or a ratio of one millionaire for every 385,583 Americans.
https://books.google.com/booksid=NIOx3DQdSeUC&pg=PA218&lpg=PA218&dq=in+1850+how+many+people+were+millionaires&source=bl&ots=aMjDIiUKI2&sig=GMD49xzhCmXL16bARrAcgDqfug&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjSm73AhcrTAhXoz4MKHT4rB0kQ6AEIUzAH#v=onepage&q=in 1850 how many people were millionaires&f=false

So I'd like you proponents of socialism.....
(From Venezuela to France, Socialism Is Failing All Over the World)
From Venezuela to France, Socialism Is Failing All Over the World

Please counter in an intelligent dialogue as to why with the above FACTS your socialism position is
better then the American/world models of capitalism at work?

Richard did a decent job of debunking your claims. I'll add my two cents. I'm Belgian we are capitalistic, just like France and presumably Venezuela, free enterprise is the driving force of much of our economy. We however have chosen to adopt policies trough the government to protect it's citizens against UNBRIDLED Capitalism and we have adopted policies to give it's citizens an even playing field and protection against unforeseen events, so that whatever happens a certain level of living standard can be maintained. This means affordable universal healthcare, near free education and unemployment compensation high enough so ppl in between jobs don't become homeless people. It doesn't work perfectly but I'm willing to compare most of it to the AVERAGE American.

One question for you then.. why do these people want to come to the USA and not to the paradise known as Belgium?


View attachment 134594

Easy, because most people get their impression of the US trough TV not actual research. Hollywood in general paints a romantic picture of the US. My wife is American she decided to live here, because she feels the level of education is higher here than in the US. I've seen the US system in action through my family, who are lower,middle and upper middle class and their experiences deal with stuff that's unheard of in my country.

 

[there4eyeM]

So, a government agency started DARPA with public funds and DARPA initiated what became the Internet (through public funds). Then, public interest led to demand for smaller computers that was greatly aided by NASA space efforts (through public funds). And all this collective effort created possibilities for entrepreneurs.

 

[The Original Tree]

The biggest strawman is insinuating that Bernie or Progressives see no place for capitalism in the economy in general or internet proliferation specifically. It false, plain and simple. Here is that FLAMING SOCIALIST!!! discussing the topic:

Bernie Sanders:

Capitalism does a number of things very well: it helps create an entrepreneurial spirit, it gets people motivated to come up with new ideas and that’s a good thing. But on the other hand, especially since the Reagan era, what we have seen in this country is an unfettered type of cowboy capitalism, and the result of that has been, that the people on top have made out like bandits and many of them are bandits. Today in America we have a situation that is quickly moving out of control.

Bernie's Statement is the equivalent of a man telling people around him that he "loves his wife' while telling his attorney "I can't wait to see the look on that bitches face when I hand the divorce papers to her."

His declared policies are in direct opposition to Capitalism, and in fact if they were implemented would completely bring Capitalism to a grinding halt.

 

[AntonToo]

how wrong anti-capitalist, pro-socialism people like Bernie Sanders supporters and ALL progressives that deride America and what has been accomplished!

When in all of humankind history have humans been able to:
1) write something that can be read by nearly half of the 7.5 billion inhabitants.
World Internet Users Statistics and 2017 World Population Stats
2) call or text to anywhere in the world instantly to nearly 7 billion cell phones
List of countries by number of mobile phones in use - Wikipedia

So explain to me how the Internet originally a DARPA project was quickly adopted by the general population and greatly expanded the market, i.e. through that dastardly tool...CAPITALISM!

3) Now contrary to almost ALL Sanders/progressives,etc. all millionaires inherited their fortune!
a) 47% of millionaires are business owners.
b) 23% of the world's millionaires got that way through paid work, consisting mostly of skilled
professionals or managers. Millionaire - Wikipedia
Nearly 70% making their fortunes through capitalism at work!

15.7 million of the 321 million Americans or one Millionaire for every 20 Americans in 2015.

In 1870 there were around 100 millionaires in a population of 38,558,371... or a ratio of one millionaire for every 385,583 Americans.
https://books.google.com/booksid=NIOx3DQdSeUC&pg=PA218&lpg=PA218&dq=in+1850+how+many+people+were+millionaires&source=bl&ots=aMjDIiUKI2&sig=GMD49xzhCmXL16bARrAcgDqfug&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjSm73AhcrTAhXoz4MKHT4rB0kQ6AEIUzAH#v=onepage&q=in 1850 how many people were millionaires&f=false

So I'd like you proponents of socialism.....
(From Venezuela to France, Socialism Is Failing All Over the World)
From Venezuela to France, Socialism Is Failing All Over the World

Please counter in an intelligent dialogue as to why with the above FACTS your socialism position is
better then the American/world models of capitalism at work?

Richard did a decent job of debunking your claims. I'll add my two cents. I'm Belgian we are capitalistic, just like France and presumably Venezuela, free enterprise is the driving force of much of our economy. We however have chosen to adopt policies trough the government to protect it's citizens against UNBRIDLED Capitalism and we have adopted policies to give it's citizens an even playing field and protection against unforeseen events, so that whatever happens a certain level of living standard can be maintained. This means affordable universal healthcare, near free education and unemployment compensation high enough so ppl in between jobs don't become homeless people. It doesn't work perfectly but I'm willing to compare most of it to the AVERAGE American.

One question for you then.. why do these people want to come to the USA and not to the paradise known as Belgium?


View attachment 134594

The biggest strawman is insinuating that Bernie or Progressives see no place for capitalism in the economy in general or internet proliferation specifically. It false, plain and simple. Here is that FLAMING SOCIALIST!!! discussing the topic:

Bernie Sanders:

Capitalism does a number of things very well: it helps create an entrepreneurial spirit, it gets people motivated to come up with new ideas and that’s a good thing. But on the other hand, especially since the Reagan era, what we have seen in this country is an unfettered type of cowboy capitalism, and the result of that has been, that the people on top have made out like bandits and many of them are bandits. Today in America we have a situation that is quickly moving out of control.

Bernie's Statement is the equivalent of a man telling people around him that he "loves his wife' while telling his attorney "I can't wait to see the look on that bitches face when I hand the divorce papers to her."

His declared policies are in direct opposition to Capitalism, and in fact if they were implemented would completely bring Capitalism to a grinding halt.

lunatic nonsense as usual from you.

Show me a single shred of evidence that Bernie is lying when he straightforwardly tells you that capitalism has an important role to play in a healthy economy.

 

[g5000]

So explain to me how the Internet originally a DARPA project was quickly adopted by the general population and greatly expanded the market,

I wonder if single payer healthcare was adopted by the general population, if that market would greatly expand...

 

[AntonToo]

how wrong anti-capitalist, pro-socialism people like Bernie Sanders supporters and ALL progressives that deride America and what has been accomplished!

When in all of humankind history have humans been able to:
1) write something that can be read by nearly half of the 7.5 billion inhabitants.
World Internet Users Statistics and 2017 World Population Stats
2) call or text to anywhere in the world instantly to nearly 7 billion cell phones
List of countries by number of mobile phones in use - Wikipedia

So explain to me how the Internet originally a DARPA project was quickly adopted by the general population and greatly expanded the market, i.e. through that dastardly tool...CAPITALISM!

3) Now contrary to almost ALL Sanders/progressives,etc. all millionaires inherited their fortune!
a) 47% of millionaires are business owners.
b) 23% of the world's millionaires got that way through paid work, consisting mostly of skilled
professionals or managers. Millionaire - Wikipedia
Nearly 70% making their fortunes through capitalism at work!

15.7 million of the 321 million Americans or one Millionaire for every 20 Americans in 2015.

In 1870 there were around 100 millionaires in a population of 38,558,371... or a ratio of one millionaire for every 385,583 Americans.
https://books.google.com/booksid=NIOx3DQdSeUC&pg=PA218&lpg=PA218&dq=in+1850+how+many+people+were+millionaires&source=bl&ots=aMjDIiUKI2&sig=GMD49xzhCmXL16bARrAcgDqfug&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjSm73AhcrTAhXoz4MKHT4rB0kQ6AEIUzAH#v=onepage&q=in 1850 how many people were millionaires&f=false

So I'd like you proponents of socialism.....
(From Venezuela to France, Socialism Is Failing All Over the World)
From Venezuela to France, Socialism Is Failing All Over the World

Please counter in an intelligent dialogue as to why with the above FACTS your socialism position is
better then the American/world models of capitalism at work?

Richard did a decent job of debunking your claims. I'll add my two cents. I'm Belgian we are capitalistic, just like France and presumably Venezuela, free enterprise is the driving force of much of our economy. We however have chosen to adopt policies trough the government to protect it's citizens against UNBRIDLED Capitalism and we have adopted policies to give it's citizens an even playing field and protection against unforeseen events, so that whatever happens a certain level of living standard can be maintained. This means affordable universal healthcare, near free education and unemployment compensation high enough so ppl in between jobs don't become homeless people. It doesn't work perfectly but I'm willing to compare most of it to the AVERAGE American.

One question for you then.. why do these people want to come to the USA and not to the paradise known as Belgium?

As soon as you answer why people want to go to United States not New Zealand

 

[healthmyths]

how wrong anti-capitalist, pro-socialism people like Bernie Sanders supporters and ALL progressives that deride America and what has been accomplished!

When in all of humankind history have humans been able to:
1) write something that can be read by nearly half of the 7.5 billion inhabitants.
World Internet Users Statistics and 2017 World Population Stats
2) call or text to anywhere in the world instantly to nearly 7 billion cell phones
List of countries by number of mobile phones in use - Wikipedia

So explain to me how the Internet originally a DARPA project was quickly adopted by the general population and greatly expanded the market, i.e. through that dastardly tool...CAPITALISM!

3) Now contrary to almost ALL Sanders/progressives,etc. all millionaires inherited their fortune!
a) 47% of millionaires are business owners.
b) 23% of the world's millionaires got that way through paid work, consisting mostly of skilled
professionals or managers. Millionaire - Wikipedia
Nearly 70% making their fortunes through capitalism at work!

15.7 million of the 321 million Americans or one Millionaire for every 20 Americans in 2015.

In 1870 there were around 100 millionaires in a population of 38,558,371... or a ratio of one millionaire for every 385,583 Americans.
https://books.google.com/booksid=NIOx3DQdSeUC&pg=PA218&lpg=PA218&dq=in+1850+how+many+people+were+millionaires&source=bl&ots=aMjDIiUKI2&sig=GMD49xzhCmXL16bARrAcgDqfug&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjSm73AhcrTAhXoz4MKHT4rB0kQ6AEIUzAH#v=onepage&q=in 1850 how many people were millionaires&f=false

So I'd like you proponents of socialism.....
(From Venezuela to France, Socialism Is Failing All Over the World)
From Venezuela to France, Socialism Is Failing All Over the World

Please counter in an intelligent dialogue as to why with the above FACTS your socialism position is
better then the American/world models of capitalism at work?

Richard did a decent job of debunking your claims. I'll add my two cents. I'm Belgian we are capitalistic, just like France and presumably Venezuela, free enterprise is the driving force of much of our economy. We however have chosen to adopt policies trough the government to protect it's citizens against UNBRIDLED Capitalism and we have adopted policies to give it's citizens an even playing field and protection against unforeseen events, so that whatever happens a certain level of living standard can be maintained. This means affordable universal healthcare, near free education and unemployment compensation high enough so ppl in between jobs don't become homeless people. It doesn't work perfectly but I'm willing to compare most of it to the AVERAGE American.

One question for you then.. why do these people want to come to the USA and not to the paradise known as Belgium?


View attachment 134594

Easy, because most people get their impression of the US trough TV not actual research. Hollywood in general paints a romantic picture of the US. My wife is American she decided to live here, because she feels the level of education is higher here than in the US. I've seen the US system in action through my family, who are lower,middle and upper middle class and their experiences deal with stuff that's unheard of in my country.

Well your education seems to have missed what the little red dotted line....... means under the word "trough".
I excuse you though because English may not be your native tongue BUT please why the problem in not noticing "trough" is not a real word?
I infer you meant "through"?

And I do agree with you SOME people get their impressions of information "through" TV as evidenced by the idiots that believe Trump who married a "LEGAL" immigrant
is "anti-immigrant" as the biased MSM portrays.

Also I'd agree with your "ANECDOTAL" stories as they are just that!
You may have lived in an democrat controlled school district where "political correctness" reigns.
BUT to indict the entire US educational system speaks VOLUMES as to YOUR education.
Educated people don't make generalized statements based on anecdotal,subjective experiences.
So let's compare...

14. Belgium : At a time went the country is only ten points away from ranking in the top 10 best education systems, the country is starting to decrease educational funding.
The World’s Best 20 Education Systems Rankings Third Quarter Report - Educate Every Child on the Planet: The World Top 20 Project NOTE: decreasing funding!

Now of course the USA is ranked behind Belgium at 18th of the top 20.
Of course there is a slight difference in population: Belgium 11.29 million : USA: 321.4 million....hmmm seems there is an issue here. But I'm not the expert you are!
And of course at $12,731 per student on secondary education, the USA schools have:
And of course this is just ONE school system but:
"We have 102,000 students here. They come from more than 180 countries, and they speak 140 languages."
140 student languages in suburban Georgia school district

Belgium spent in 2011 less then $12,000
Belgium's three official languages are Dutch, spoken by 59% of the population, French, spoken by 40%, and German, spoken by less than 1%
https://www.oecd.org/edu/EAG2014-Indicator B1 (eng).pdf

Hmmm... 140 languages versus Belgium 3?
Again I'm just saying when considering nearly 46 times as many languages the school system confronts then the 3 languages Belgians speak does have an affect!

 

[healthmyths]

how wrong anti-capitalist, pro-socialism people like Bernie Sanders supporters and ALL progressives that deride America and what has been accomplished!

When in all of humankind history have humans been able to:
1) write something that can be read by nearly half of the 7.5 billion inhabitants.
World Internet Users Statistics and 2017 World Population Stats
2) call or text to anywhere in the world instantly to nearly 7 billion cell phones
List of countries by number of mobile phones in use - Wikipedia

So explain to me how the Internet originally a DARPA project was quickly adopted by the general population and greatly expanded the market, i.e. through that dastardly tool...CAPITALISM!

3) Now contrary to almost ALL Sanders/progressives,etc. all millionaires inherited their fortune!
a) 47% of millionaires are business owners.
b) 23% of the world's millionaires got that way through paid work, consisting mostly of skilled
professionals or managers. Millionaire - Wikipedia
Nearly 70% making their fortunes through capitalism at work!

15.7 million of the 321 million Americans or one Millionaire for every 20 Americans in 2015.

In 1870 there were around 100 millionaires in a population of 38,558,371... or a ratio of one millionaire for every 385,583 Americans.
https://books.google.com/booksid=NIOx3DQdSeUC&pg=PA218&lpg=PA218&dq=in+1850+how+many+people+were+millionaires&source=bl&ots=aMjDIiUKI2&sig=GMD49xzhCmXL16bARrAcgDqfug&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjSm73AhcrTAhXoz4MKHT4rB0kQ6AEIUzAH#v=onepage&q=in 1850 how many people were millionaires&f=false

So I'd like you proponents of socialism.....
(From Venezuela to France, Socialism Is Failing All Over the World)
From Venezuela to France, Socialism Is Failing All Over the World

Please counter in an intelligent dialogue as to why with the above FACTS your socialism position is
better then the American/world models of capitalism at work?

Richard did a decent job of debunking your claims. I'll add my two cents. I'm Belgian we are capitalistic, just like France and presumably Venezuela, free enterprise is the driving force of much of our economy. We however have chosen to adopt policies trough the government to protect it's citizens against UNBRIDLED Capitalism and we have adopted policies to give it's citizens an even playing field and protection against unforeseen events, so that whatever happens a certain level of living standard can be maintained. This means affordable universal healthcare, near free education and unemployment compensation high enough so ppl in between jobs don't become homeless people. It doesn't work perfectly but I'm willing to compare most of it to the AVERAGE American.

One question for you then.. why do these people want to come to the USA and not to the paradise known as Belgium?

As soon as you answer why people want to go to United States not New Zealand

Sure... let's compare...
Most Americans who apply for New Zealand citizenship must first live in the country for five years.
More Americans flee to New Zealand after Trump election
I’m American and my husband is a Kiwi. We lived on and off in West Auckland, NZ for the past five years.
At this point we have given up and are staying stateside for now.
NZ is beautiful and the people are super friendly and it’s very fun to live there. It is just like the postcards. We really do love it there…
BUT it’s different when you’re not there on vacation.
It is very expensive and difficult to make real money there in order to save up or get ahead. Anyone looking to relocate there needs to do a lot of research and have a huge nest egg. NZ is a fantastic place to raise a family or retire…. if you’ve already got money. But nowhere is a fantastic place if you’re struggling.
The rents and housing prices in Auckland are astronomical compared to wages. Our rental in Glen Eden was $400NZD/week for a small 3 BR. The quality of the rentals there is very poor. I don’t know how people working on average wage do it. Wellington and Christchurch aren’t much better and these three areas are pretty much where all of the actual professional jobs are located.
We’re not the only ones that had to leave NZ to make a living. A lot of younger kiwis leave to go to the UK or the US to work and travel. A lot of them don’t come back. My husband’s family members and close friends are scattered all around the globe from Hong Kong, Amsterdam, Scotland, Canada and here. Very few are actually in Auckland. We have to coordinate our vacations so that we all meet up there.
Most of the problem is that it’s very isolated, so it’s very expensive to get cargo shipped, and there’s not a lot of competition there. It’s such a small population. There’s more people in Nassau and Suffolk County in Long Island, New York than the whole country of New Zealand.
Also I noticed while I was there that there just isn’t the energy or drive to innovate or “do more” there. I didn’t feel like there was any spark there. Kiwis are perfectly happy to make do. “Whatever bro”…chill out, drink some Steinies, and watch the rugby. They are ingenious in their own way, to make things work for them personally. But few have any interest in making any kind of business, investing or becoming entrepreneurs. All the dairies and small shops in Auckland are owned by immigrants. (The immigrants from India are having a field day there.) Kiwis are very easy going and friendly, but overall are not a bunch of go-getters. It’s just not valued in their culture. They like everyone to be on the same level, they don’t reward achievement. Anyone who’s a “tall poppy” get cut down one way or another. I don’t know how it got to be like that, but it’s a shame because it’s what is going to hold them back.
An American’s Take On “Rip-Off New Zealand”

BUT remember this is JUST ONE example... An Anecdotal. And shouldn't be applied to ALL Americans that have moved to NZ!

 

[AntonToo]

how wrong anti-capitalist, pro-socialism people like Bernie Sanders supporters and ALL progressives that deride America and what has been accomplished!

When in all of humankind history have humans been able to:
1) write something that can be read by nearly half of the 7.5 billion inhabitants.
World Internet Users Statistics and 2017 World Population Stats
2) call or text to anywhere in the world instantly to nearly 7 billion cell phones
List of countries by number of mobile phones in use - Wikipedia

So explain to me how the Internet originally a DARPA project was quickly adopted by the general population and greatly expanded the market, i.e. through that dastardly tool...CAPITALISM!

3) Now contrary to almost ALL Sanders/progressives,etc. all millionaires inherited their fortune!
a) 47% of millionaires are business owners.
b) 23% of the world's millionaires got that way through paid work, consisting mostly of skilled
professionals or managers. Millionaire - Wikipedia
Nearly 70% making their fortunes through capitalism at work!

15.7 million of the 321 million Americans or one Millionaire for every 20 Americans in 2015.

In 1870 there were around 100 millionaires in a population of 38,558,371... or a ratio of one millionaire for every 385,583 Americans.
https://books.google.com/booksid=NIOx3DQdSeUC&pg=PA218&lpg=PA218&dq=in+1850+how+many+people+were+millionaires&source=bl&ots=aMjDIiUKI2&sig=GMD49xzhCmXL16bARrAcgDqfug&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjSm73AhcrTAhXoz4MKHT4rB0kQ6AEIUzAH#v=onepage&q=in 1850 how many people were millionaires&f=false

So I'd like you proponents of socialism.....
(From Venezuela to France, Socialism Is Failing All Over the World)
From Venezuela to France, Socialism Is Failing All Over the World

Please counter in an intelligent dialogue as to why with the above FACTS your socialism position is
better then the American/world models of capitalism at work?

Richard did a decent job of debunking your claims. I'll add my two cents. I'm Belgian we are capitalistic, just like France and presumably Venezuela, free enterprise is the driving force of much of our economy. We however have chosen to adopt policies trough the government to protect it's citizens against UNBRIDLED Capitalism and we have adopted policies to give it's citizens an even playing field and protection against unforeseen events, so that whatever happens a certain level of living standard can be maintained. This means affordable universal healthcare, near free education and unemployment compensation high enough so ppl in between jobs don't become homeless people. It doesn't work perfectly but I'm willing to compare most of it to the AVERAGE American.

One question for you then.. why do these people want to come to the USA and not to the paradise known as Belgium?

As soon as you answer why people want to go to United States not New Zealand

Sure... let's compare...
Most Americans who apply for New Zealand citizenship must first live in the country for five years.
More Americans flee to New Zealand after Trump election
I’m American and my husband is a Kiwi. We lived on and off in West Auckland, NZ for the past five years.
At this point we have given up and are staying stateside for now.
NZ is beautiful and the people are super friendly and it’s very fun to live there. It is just like the postcards. We really do love it there…
BUT it’s different when you’re not there on vacation.
It is very expensive and difficult to make real money there in order to save up or get ahead. Anyone looking to relocate there needs to do a lot of research and have a huge nest egg. NZ is a fantastic place to raise a family or retire…. if you’ve already got money. But nowhere is a fantastic place if you’re struggling.
The rents and housing prices in Auckland are astronomical compared to wages. Our rental in Glen Eden was $400NZD/week for a small 3 BR. The quality of the rentals there is very poor. I don’t know how people working on average wage do it. Wellington and Christchurch aren’t much better and these three areas are pretty much where all of the actual professional jobs are located.
We’re not the only ones that had to leave NZ to make a living. A lot of younger kiwis leave to go to the UK or the US to work and travel. A lot of them don’t come back. My husband’s family members and close friends are scattered all around the globe from Hong Kong, Amsterdam, Scotland, Canada and here. Very few are actually in Auckland. We have to coordinate our vacations so that we all meet up there.
Most of the problem is that it’s very isolated, so it’s very expensive to get cargo shipped, and there’s not a lot of competition there. It’s such a small population. There’s more people in Nassau and Suffolk County in Long Island, New York than the whole country of New Zealand.
Also I noticed while I was there that there just isn’t the energy or drive to innovate or “do more” there. I didn’t feel like there was any spark there. Kiwis are perfectly happy to make do. “Whatever bro”…chill out, drink some Steinies, and watch the rugby. They are ingenious in their own way, to make things work for them personally. But few have any interest in making any kind of business, investing or becoming entrepreneurs. All the dairies and small shops in Auckland are owned by immigrants. (The immigrants from India are having a field day there.) Kiwis are very easy going and friendly, but overall are not a bunch of go-getters. It’s just not valued in their culture. They like everyone to be on the same level, they don’t reward achievement. Anyone who’s a “tall poppy” get cut down one way or another. I don’t know how it got to be like that, but it’s a shame because it’s what is going to hold them back.
An American’s Take On “Rip-Off New Zealand”

BUT remember this is JUST ONE example... An Anecdotal. And shouldn't be applied to ALL Americans that have moved to NZ!

I see you typed a lot but missed the point - just because a country is more or less on the capitalism scale does not mean it is more or less desirable to live in.

People want to live in America due to high standard of living, it's brand and diversity, not because it is the most capitalistic country in the world.