Family, Country and God.

[Glori.B]

or vice versa

my head hurts!

 

[Glori.B]

I don't know about that. It reminds me of the many times people that don't support the Iraq war have been called traitorous.

One can be an American and an individual. In fact, it would seem impossible not to be.

see, it's much easier with real life examples...
of course those who oppose the war are not traitors!

 

[Canis]

I don't know about that. It reminds me of the many times people that don't support the Iraq war have been called traitorous.

One can be an American and an individual. In fact, it would seem impossible not to be.

So...are you saying is that being disloyal to your friend and being disloyal to your country cannot occur at the same time and have no outcomes in common?

My point is that your an individual that exists in society and you can't seperate the two. Although these types of debates are interesting, people don't make a living being abstractions in hypothetical situations.

 

[Ravi]

Probably not. But why spoil a good discussion?

 

[mattskramer]

see, it's much easier with real life examples...
of course those who oppose the war are not traitors!

You make your best judgment based on what information you have.

Unless you can make a blanket statement that under no circumstances would you put country above family or unless you can make a blanket statement that under no circumstances would you put family above country, circumstances must be considered. I am not aware of anyone who can make such a statement. There are hypothetical circumstances that can be considered. There have actually been real events in which such things are considered.

Read this story and answer my questions”

http://www.historylink.org/essays/output.cfm?file_id=7810

Did he do the right thing? Since his country was telling him to squeal, was he loyal or disloyal to his country? Was he loyal to the notion of right and wrong? Was he loyal to friends and/or family who may have been hurt by the decision? Did he do it for his own self interest and/or did he do it because it was the right thing to do? I think that it is something to think about.

If you were an adult during the days of the “House Committee on Un-American Activities” and were called on to tell it about people what would you do?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_Un-American_Activities_Committee

Yet, it is true that you can be loyal to your family and to your country. Sometimes you can and some times they might be mutually exclusive depending on the situation.

 

[Canis]

Probably not. But why spoil a good discussion?

Sorry, didn't mean to. I guess I should have shown more loyalty.

 

[Ravi]

Sorry, didn't mean to. I guess I should have shown more loyalty.

To who? I don't know you, do I?

 

[Canis]

To who? I don't know you, do I?

I don't know, considering we're anonymous posters. Maybe we should play it safe and just hedge our bets here.

Anyway, I'm new and I was just jumping in the discussion.

 

[speedy35]

Ya, I'm new here too so i won't try to pick a fight. You2 are dong that very well without my help, but I would choose to try to be loyal to both.

 

[Gunny]

Which is worse, being disloyal to your country or disloyal to a friend?

And, why?

Pffft ....

God, country and Corps ....

The Corps didn't issue you no damned family so suck it up and deal.

 

[Ravi]

Pffft ....

God, country and Corps ....

The Corps didn't issue you no damned family so suck it up and deal.

I tried to rep you for that.

 

[midcan5]

Which is worse, being disloyal to your country or disloyal to a friend?

And, why?

I think from a pragmatic point of view, being disloyal to a friend is worse because of the close connection. Friends and family are all we have in life. Country is an abstraction, a great and necessary thing but one that runs in another sphere than day to day life. If we are personally loyal, chances are we will have the values to be loyal to a nation when and where it counts.

 

[AllieBaba]

I think from a pragmatic point of view, being disloyal to a friend is worse because of the close connection. Friends and family are all we have in life. Country is an abstraction, a great and necessary thing but one that runs in another sphere than day to day life. If we are personally loyal, chances are we will have the values to be loyal to a nation when and where it counts.

So one friend is more important than many innocents?
I have a problem with that.

 

[Gunny]

So one friend is more important than many innocents?
I have a problem with that.

You mean you have a problem understanding that? I don't see where you get that "stuff" out of what he said.

For the slow, sounds like he's saying that if you have personal loyalty, you will then know how to be loyal to the country when the time comes. Or do you think droning out the "Pledge" every morning automatically instill that?

Was it okay that German citizens were loyal to the Third Reich?

I have a problem with someone (a country in this case) telling me what I have to be loyal to.